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Late to the best Mario game you never played - PAPER MARIO 64.
- Thread starter Borys
- Start date
Kroole said:
Square and Nintendo are already collaborating on a Mario Basketball game, and Square and Nintendo decided to excercise some cooperative synergy by timing the releases of the DS Lite and Children of Mana. I'm sure Nintendo would be delighted to have Square develop a DS sequel to Super Mario RPG.
Part of what's leading to a much more successful relationship between Nintendo and third parties these days is that the company is being much more open to allowing outside developers to work on its systems and do what they want with it. If Square said to Nintendo, "We'd like to do X game," I think almost any reasonable request would be given an immediate greenlight from Nintendo -- particularly a sequel to a cherished SNES RPG.
That being said, a Nintendo mascot action RPG ala Kingdom Hearts (which would absolutely need to be done on a home console, not the DS, much as I love it) would be one of the most killer Nintendo RPGs ever. Can you imagine wandering through the worlds of Metroid, the Mushroom Kingdom, the Donkey Kong Jungle, Hyrule, and so on, controlling all of those characters -- actually, I guess it'd be like a RPG version of Super Smash Bros. That'd absolutely kick ass.
Nintendo took the battle system from the original and improved it on their own to create the franchise that it is today and I don't see them giving that franchise to Square. What could Square possibly do to make it better?
My bet is that if another game comes out of that relationship (not talking about Mario Basket) it's going to be a new IP with some connections to Nintendo mascots.
Concur
My bet is that if another game comes out of that relationship (not talking about Mario Basket) it's going to be a new IP with some connections to Nintendo mascots.
ethelred said:
Concur
Kroole said:
Intelligent Systems is awesome, and Alphadream is proving itself quite capable as well. But it's not like Square Enix is completely devoid of design talent. Certainly Super Mario RPG looks very dated and unsophisticated compared to the later games in the Mario RPG series, but the game did do a lot right, too. It (very successfully) initially implemented a lot of the ideas that went into the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi games. Yes, the later games improved upon the battle system, but it's still Square that created the core ideas behind that battle system, and Square could then take it to the next level and improve that just as IntSys and Alphadream did. And it was Square's designs, characters, battle system, and story that proved that Mario could work as a traditional turn-based RPG.
As a first effort in the series and the building block upon which the later, much more advanced (and better) games are based, I think it did a very respectable job. If it hadn't done well at what it was doing, the PM/M&L games probably never would've even materialized. I guess I'm much more confident than you that Square Enix could revisit those initial ideas, advance them several levels and create something really exceptional. I think if SE expressed such a desire to Nintendo, Nintendo would share that confidence, too.
Or, maybe Nintendo wouldn't think SE would do as well as IntSys or Alphadream, but the company still wouldn't deny one of the most important RPG developers the okay to do any RPG it wanted for Nintendo's systems. Regardless of anything, it's still the ability for Nintendo to trumpet more third party games on its system, more RPGs, more Square Enix, all of which the company would love to have.
So I would like SMRPG2 for the DS and Mascot RPG for the Revolution. Sounds good to me.
Suburban Cowboy
Member
Paper Mario was one of the most disappointing games i ever played. I was expecting a sequel to mario rpg but ended up receiving something far less.
QFFT, the only people who do place SMRPG over the later Mario RPG games are indeed the "old school" Square fanboys who believe that because they had a hand in the original, that it was an awesome game. Far from it really, the game as a whole stank, which is true of most of Square's offerings.DavidDayton said:
Sabaku Ika
Member
This is why I never played the Paper Marios. They looked like a weak imitation of Mario RPG without Square. Now, I sort of regret thinking this way.Dyne said:
JackFrost2012
Banned
Super Mario RPG is an unplayable boring charmless easy piece of shit. BUT OMG SAMUS IS AT THE INN!!
Final Score: A-
Final Score: A-
Meh, all of the Mario RPGs were overrated.
SMRPG was probably the best, but the weak samba party battle music killed its replay value and it really lacked a distinct "Mario" feel.
Paper Mario had a neat idea with the badge system and the partners, but the game was too linear and the walking speed was painfully slow.
Superstar Saga did a fantastic job of bringing back all of the Mario elements, but did so at the expense of interesting battles; just having jump attacks, hammer attacks, and combined attacks wasn't enough to keep battles fresh an interesting.
Partners In Time rectified that problem with a ton of awesome attacks in battle, then ruined it all with even more linearity than PM1 and artificially-inflated HP for bosses.
I haven't played Paper Mario 2 yet (and won't until it hits $20), though, so I can't comment on that.
Some people seem to talk about some of these games like they're among the best ever made. Honestly, I just don't understand that. To me, they each have too many flaws to even be considered when there are "technically" perfect games out there like, say, SMB3 or Tetris.
SMRPG was probably the best, but the weak samba party battle music killed its replay value and it really lacked a distinct "Mario" feel.
Paper Mario had a neat idea with the badge system and the partners, but the game was too linear and the walking speed was painfully slow.
Superstar Saga did a fantastic job of bringing back all of the Mario elements, but did so at the expense of interesting battles; just having jump attacks, hammer attacks, and combined attacks wasn't enough to keep battles fresh an interesting.
Partners In Time rectified that problem with a ton of awesome attacks in battle, then ruined it all with even more linearity than PM1 and artificially-inflated HP for bosses.
I haven't played Paper Mario 2 yet (and won't until it hits $20), though, so I can't comment on that.
Some people seem to talk about some of these games like they're among the best ever made. Honestly, I just don't understand that. To me, they each have too many flaws to even be considered when there are "technically" perfect games out there like, say, SMB3 or Tetris.
Never had the chance to play SMRPG. Shame too, because I'd jump at a title with Mario in it in a flash. Maybe it'll be available as a Revolution download? Probably it's time for me to scour Gamestop's used game section again.
Speaking of PM series... PM2 had such a flair in it that I played that thing for a good amount of time. Shame I haven't beaten it yet, even with Mario's awesome personality being the star of the show (IMO), but that's what I get buying too many games at once.
PM64 sounds interseting though... and once again, either Gamestop or Virtual console service for me!
Speaking of PM series... PM2 had such a flair in it that I played that thing for a good amount of time. Shame I haven't beaten it yet, even with Mario's awesome personality being the star of the show (IMO), but that's what I get buying too many games at once.
PM64 sounds interseting though... and once again, either Gamestop or Virtual console service for me!
Dyne said:
Several reasons why Mario RPG sucks:
1) it can be beaten in 6-8 hours
2) it doesn't feel like a mario game. Paper Mario 1 & 2 do.
3) Mario RPG has original characters that aren't based on classic enemies. Paper Mario's characters are all based on traditional Mario creatures
4) Mario RPG is just a crappy Final Fantasy: mystic quest-style RPG with a handful of Mario characters
And why is Paper Mario much better? For the same reason Zelda, Castlevania, and the Metroid games rock. Paper Mario combines not just RPG elements (which are admittedly fairly rudimentary), but also adventure game elements (going back and forth between old areas unlocking new places you couldn't get to before) in addition to having more Mario references than Mario RPG. Stuff like that is why Paper Mario rocks so much.
You made some terrible arguments Pellham that i could easily dispel. Have you even played the game?
I do not understand the hate against SMRPG. Classic Square production values combined w/ Nintendo's quality assurance... What's not to love? The mini-games were fantastic, and the characters a nice change from Mario's Mushroom Kingdom world.
I don't see much in PM2. The "collect every star" story is kinda tired, and the paper theme seems kinda tacky and doesn't feel realized.
I do not understand the hate against SMRPG. Classic Square production values combined w/ Nintendo's quality assurance... What's not to love? The mini-games were fantastic, and the characters a nice change from Mario's Mushroom Kingdom world.
I don't see much in PM2. The "collect every star" story is kinda tired, and the paper theme seems kinda tacky and doesn't feel realized.
Joseph Merrick
Member
Square sucks, bro.
Production value is king. Screw gameplay.
Production value is king. Screw gameplay.
Definitely disagree on the SMRPG hate -- it was a very solid game for its time with cool characters and good atmosphere. Paper Mario 64, however, was the absolute bomb. That game was AAA-quality from start to finish. I haven't played much Paper Mario GC yet, but I'm looking forward to finding some time for it soon.
I need to get back to Mario & Luigi GBA. I played around 8 hours or so when it first came out, but all the button pressing to switch up abilities got to be really tiring so I started playing something else. Did they fix that problem any with the DS version?
I need to get back to Mario & Luigi GBA. I played around 8 hours or so when it first came out, but all the button pressing to switch up abilities got to be really tiring so I started playing something else. Did they fix that problem any with the DS version?
CO_Andy said:
Paper Mario series = battles that are fun.
Super Mario RPG = cookie cutter battles
I'm not saying SMRPG is a bad game, mind you, I'm saying that the battle system employed in the Paper Mario / Mario & Luigi games allows the player to spend more time actually playing the game. The concept was also in SMRPG, mind you, but it wasn't very well fleshed out.
JackFrost2012 said:
Hey it's the Kingdom Hearts Syndrome!...but hey KH was actually good.
john tv said:
Yep, PM has a consistent level of AAA-quality - from the very start and your fight with Goomba King to the showdown with Bowser on top of Princess Peach castle.
Each dungeon is unique, fun and not-seen-before. When I entered the Flower Fields I was like "OMG this can't be real - what will they think of next?"... and then BAM! I went to the Crystal Palace with all those mirrors. Talk about improving quality with each hour/ dungeon/ boss passed.
Each boss fight is challenging and you guessed it - fun and never boring. Lava Piranha, Crystal King, Huff N Puff - all amazing battles requiring some smarts to win.
And the quiz in the last dungeon? Absolutely hillarious.
Amazing game, really.
SMRPG has simply nothing on it, NOTHING.
The battle system in Mario RPG was innovative for its time, and i believe it still is today if you look at the DQ or FF series.DavidDayton said:
As i mentioned before, i find the enemies in PM2 to be REALLY easy. Where's the fun in that? I will give Intelligent Systems credit though for nailing the game mechanics down. On a slightly different subject, I was gasping in disbelief last year when i played M & L for the first time... Innovative, challenging, good productions values, and playable Luigi!
Nothing tops the hilarity of the Booster wedding in Mario RPG though. The game also had a wealth of very cool secrets. I still can't do a 100 jumps!
A Link to the Past
Banned
You know WHY Super Mario RPG is overrated?
They didn't do a Mario RPG correctly!
They were given a very active game, and turned it into a boring romp through a Mushroom Kingdom that we end up never seeing after.
This would suit for Final Fantasy gameplay, but for God's sake, this is Mario. Super Mario RPG being inventive in comparison to Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy isn't good enough - neither are particularly inventive.
How about compared to any Mario RPG ever made? Mario RPG is the bottom of the totem pole in inventiveness - WAAY down at the bottom.
They didn't do a Mario RPG correctly!
They were given a very active game, and turned it into a boring romp through a Mushroom Kingdom that we end up never seeing after.
This would suit for Final Fantasy gameplay, but for God's sake, this is Mario. Super Mario RPG being inventive in comparison to Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy isn't good enough - neither are particularly inventive.
How about compared to any Mario RPG ever made? Mario RPG is the bottom of the totem pole in inventiveness - WAAY down at the bottom.
A Link to the Past
Banned
CO_Andy said:
Wow.
I can't wait until I become a Member so I'm just a little less likely to be banned for saying stupid ass stuff like you just said.
Tell me, what is it that lured you into the greatness of Super Mario RPG?
Was it the lack of any point in using any variations to the strongest technique?
Was it the utter lack of strategy?
Was it the fact that you could jump on an enemy, even if they were just a giant slosh of flaming swords?
Was it the fact that there was no humor, or charm?
Was it the fact that they did shit with the Mario license, and that they might as well have switched the Mario elements of the game into Final Fantasy elements?
Christ, I can't stand you Mario RPG purists. You disregard every aspect of it being inferior because it's Square. Seriously, almost everyone I've argued with about this has stated that it's better because it's Square! Just to warn you, that Square Enix is NOT the only good RPG developer.
Tell me - if everything about Mario RPG is inferior to every other Mario RPG - INCLUDING the Mario aspect of the game - then what the Hell makes it better?
The gameplay is nothing to call home about. The storyline is nothing to call home about. What's left without those two?
I love all the Mario rpgs i have played! Those would be PM2, SMRPG, Mario And Luigi SSS, and I am currently playing PiT. So I still have to play PM 1, which I plan on doing after PiT. So far I would say I like SSS best, but not by much, as I feel they all offer different experiences and all are fun!!
A Link to the Past
Banned
CO_Andy said:
I've grown tired of justifying my argument on this. You might as well request someone to justify why they hate Bebe's Kids.
I've asked you several times WHY Super Mario RPG is so amazing. I've clearly explained why Super Mario RPG is overrated, couldn't you return the favor?
demi said:
I suppose you're right. I often let lunatic comments get to me. :lol
A Link to the Past said:
Seriously.
Just above I said Paper Mario was good
But Boring
And I get called a hater because I hate good games
Since I said it was a bad game
Am I missing something in that story?
I never said it was a bad game.
When GAF has to endlessly defend something, something is amiss. Keep that in mind.
A Link to the Past
Banned
demi said:
Technicalities.
Red Scarlet
Member
Have fun with Paper Mario 2, Borys! Anyone you know at that pigeon convention?
Jupiter_Shrooms
Member
PM series > SMRPG for me too. The way I reason it, the battle system did away with conventional RPG battle fare. Instead of using generic water spell to defeat fire enemy, you used jumps to flip over and disable shelled enemies. If the enemy was spiked, then you used hammers or frontal attacks. Winged enemies could be grounded with a jump or hammer throw. Electricity can negate defense, etc. Also every attack, whether it was yours or your enemies, was interactive. Nothing had you just sit back and just watch the attack unfold (although i haven't played PM1 in years). Ultimately, the battle system was just fun, fun, fun.
My only complaint with the Paper Mario series is that Mario gets many party members but you never see them talk to each other, EVER. For example, Vivi and your Yoshi... have they ever exchanged a single line? I'd like to see some kind of friction or interactivity between party members (we all know they get along just fine with Mario). Although, this problem isn't exclusive to just the Paper Mario series.
My only complaint with the Paper Mario series is that Mario gets many party members but you never see them talk to each other, EVER. For example, Vivi and your Yoshi... have they ever exchanged a single line? I'd like to see some kind of friction or interactivity between party members (we all know they get along just fine with Mario). Although, this problem isn't exclusive to just the Paper Mario series.
HeadsUpSevenUp
Member
DavidDayton said:
Even better than the parade from Paper Mario?? Luigi led both!
I was hoping they would continue the tradition in the rest of the games, but saldy, these are the only two games with the legendary Luigi Parade.