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[ElectricBlanketFire]

Breaking now.

California lawmakers have voted to make the nation's most populous state the second to raise the smoking age from 18 to 21.

Democratic Gov. Jerry Brown still must sign off on the legislation approved Thursday that makes California the first state after Hawaii with the higher age limit. His spokesman said last week that the governor generally does not comment on pending legislation.

The change is part of a sweeping package of anti-smoking measures that aims to crack down on tobacco use and the health problems it causes.

The bills also restrict electronic cigarettes the same as tobacco products. The increasingly popular devices are not regulated by the federal government.

As someone who lost a close family member to oral cancer caused by smoking, this is fine by me.

 

[Knuckle Sandwich]

Good. My dad died of mouth cancer and started right at 18.

 

[RDreamer]

I'm not terribly much a fan of smoking, but I'm also not a fan of moving legal age to do certain activities up past legal adult age. If you can die for this country in war or get tried as an adult in court, I think you should be able to smoke (and drink)

 

[John Kowalski]

oh no my vapelyfe

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Everything should be 18. Not sure why 21 became the go-to age for certain vices. An adult is an adult.

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

Everything should be 18. Not sure why 21 became the go-to age for certain vices. An adult is an adult.

.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

Everything should be 18. Not sure why 21 became the go-to age for certain vices. An adult is an adult.

So now you can join the military to fight but still can't drink or smoke.

Rather odd still. I have no connection to cigarettes. More of a green person if I must say.

 

[Drakeon]

Can someone with more knowledge explain why vaping products get regulated the same as tobacco products? Aren't they inherently less dangerous? Or is there not enough data?

 

[The Lone Courier]

I'm mixed on this yeah smoking is bad and all but once you hit 18 the choice should be yours.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Everything should be 18. Not sure why 21 became the go-to age for certain vices. An adult is an adult.

Playing Devil's Advocate, but a lot of the defense for raising the minimum age is that when you're 18, your brain is still developing and you're still maturing. Thus waiting could reduce your urge to smoke, and not smoking would avoid stunted development.

 

[Moppet13]

Teenagers still start smoking at 18? I figured it was like 13 or bust.

 

[KingBroly]

Everything should be 18. Not sure why 21 became the go-to age for certain vices. An adult is an adult.

The alcohol at 21 thing is kind of a Federal mandate against drunk drivers. Has been for a while.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Can someone with more knowledge explain why vaping products get regulated the same as tobacco products? Aren't they inherently less dangerous? Or is there not enough data?

Not enough data. The long-term effects are generally unknown at this point.

 

[TCRS]

nanny state, not even once.

 

[Knuckle Sandwich]

Can someone with more knowledge explain why vaping products get regulated the same as tobacco products? Aren't they inherently less dangerous? Or is there not enough data?

Not enough data but I'm sure it can't be good for you.

 

[Arkeband]

Will this make vaping even "cooler"?

I'm mixed on this yeah smoking is bad and all but once you hit 18 the choice should be yours.

I'd say it's an individual's choice once no one else is ever subjected to their second hand smoke.

 

[ST2K]

I'm okay with bumping all the adult things back to 21. Splitting drinking, smoking, draft eligibility, voting, etc. between ages is when it gets dumb.

 

[Zoe]

I'm not terribly much a fan of smoking, but I'm also not a fan of moving legal age to do certain activities up past legal adult age. If you can die for this country in war or get tried as an adult in court, I think you should be able to smoke (and drink)

Why not increase the enlistment age?

 

[Taco_Man]

I wonder how this will effect their marijuana industry. Either way it's great news and I hope more states follow their lead.

 

[Lamel]

Honestly, if it impedes access to cigarettes, I'm all for it. Tobacco is straight up one of the worst things to happen to society. The variety of ways that tobacco can fuck you up is unparalleled.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Everything should be 18. Not sure why 21 became the go-to age for certain vices. An adult is an adult.

18 isn't an adult, not really outside of the legal definition.

 

[Bay Maximus]

I didn't realize there was a first state to do this. As a non-smoker that is against allowing people to smoke in public areas, I disagree with this law. For whatever its goals, this will be just another way to put records on more black and brown people. Very short-sighted legislation imo.

 

[Taco_Man]

Why not increase the enlistment age?

They'd never do that, in fact if certain politicians were in I'm sure they'd be perfectly fine with lowering it.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I started smoking in 5th grade, quite a few years later before briefly starting up again when I was 18(and not past that). I don't think I ever met someone that started smoking when it was actually legal to do so.

I don't have an issue with raising the age up, but I have to wonder how effective it would really be.

 

[Feel the Swift]

I'm okay with bumping all the adult things back to 21. Splitting drinking, smoking, draft eligibility, voting, etc. between ages is when it gets dumb.

Yep, there should be more outcry to move the draft age not the other way around.

 

[Arkeband]

Why not increase the enlistment age?

The younger and directionless they are, the more willing they'll be to die for unjust wars.

 

[Ashby]

Everything should be 18. Not sure why 21 became the go-to age for certain vices. An adult is an adult.

Yeah, I don't understand how this is even legal really. Can the government just arbitrarily set an age limit for any activity then? Can California just say "too many people are dying in car accidents, let's move the age up to 35"?

 

[How About No]

Nah change it to 50. Make it a retirement benefit

 

[Risette]

I'm okay with bumping all the adult things back to 21. Splitting drinking, smoking, draft eligibility, voting, etc. between ages is when it gets dumb.

Yeah no @ raising voting. Disenfranchising people is never good.

 

[injurai]

What about all those kids who get kicked out of the house at 18? They might need to smoke down a quick fag to get through their shitty kitchen or retail job.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Breaking now.



As someone who lost a close family member to oral cancer caused by smoking, this is fine by me.

Good job California. The less people smoking the better.

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

Nah change it to 50. Make it a retirement benefit

 

[Jzero]

If people want to smoke, they're going to find a way to smoke.

 

[Goro Majima]

I'm okay with bumping all the adult things back to 21. Splitting drinking, smoking, draft eligibility, voting, etc. between ages is when it gets dumb.

Why not increase the enlistment age?

Really it needs to be consistent across the board.

You'd have to either write out exceptions for those in the military or raise everything to 21. I've never been comfortable with the idea that soldiers can't drink until 21 but they have the maturity to enlist into something that might get them killed?

I mean let's face it, I feel like there's a growing consensus that much of the 18 year old population aren't really adults anymore. There's still a tremendous amount of emotional development between 18 and 21 relative to everyone 21 and up.

 

[Jack Remington]

Might have a marginal positive effect, but are we going to see cops walking around carding smokers and writing them expensive tickets? Will you have to make a court appearance if you get caught smoking at age 20?

I went to a university where cops tried to wage an all-out war on underage drinking. All it did was cause students to despise the cops while everyone went on drinking anyway.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I'm not terribly much a fan of smoking, but I'm also not a fan of moving legal age to do certain activities up past legal adult age. If you can die for this country in war or get tried as an adult in court, I think you should be able to smoke (and drink)

I agree.

I'm wondering if this, alongside the vast research that shows that 18 year olds are still very much in development mentally, ultimately results in the legal adult age being moved up somewhere down the road. To me there's not a good reason to restrict it from a rights standpoint unless you admit that they aren't informed enough for *any* adult choices.

Yeah no @ raising voting. Disenfranchising people is never good.

Young people aren't voting anyhow. https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/p20-573.pdf

And if they're not adult enough to make choices about their own bodies than yeah, they're not adult enough to elect officials to represent them.

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

If people are going to smoke, they're going to find a way to smoke.

Same thing in regards to everything in life. Guns, drugs, sex, rules, etc.

 

[God Dayumm]

Everything should be 18. Not sure why 21 became the go-to age for certain vices. An adult is an adult.

Not really. A 18 year old millennial is not an adult. Hell not even at 21 or 30 even. On the other hand, a 18 year-old boomer is certainly an adult.

 

[Reverend Funk]

Now I'm gonna have to buy cigarettes for my under 21 smoking friends ugh.

 

[John Kowalski]

I'm okay with bumping all the adult things back to 21. Splitting drinking, smoking, draft eligibility, voting, etc. between ages is when it gets dumb.

It doesn't get dumb. Those things exist in different contexts, have different realities, and also relate to different aspects of governance. Smoking is a health concern, drafting is a military concern, and voting is a political concern (well they are all political concerns but you get my point). A government may and most likely does have different interests for each of those, and their impact on society changes independently of one another. Most importantly, each requires unique tackling.

A law being made to prohibit the selling of tobacco to, say, <18, isn't concerning the law's opinion of whether an 18 year old can consent to smoking or not. It may, partially, but such laws exist because there is an interest in mitigating the effects of tobacco on individuals/health/economy.

 

[How About No]

Nah fuck it burn it all down

Consume. EVERYTHING.

I say this as the child of smokers, one who developed COPD

Also I don't really know how anyone under 30 is stupid enough to start smoking. Sure, older generations had televised ads and cartoon camels to make it look really cool, but now with the myriad of big-font warnings and stigma, and being the child of parents with health problems related to smoking, I'm just baffled at how anyone can start

 

[FyreWulff]

Everything should be 18. Not sure why 21 became the go-to age for certain vices. An adult is an adult.

21 is due to highway funding. If you don't raise your alcohol age to 21 as a state, you don't get money to fix your highways. So while a state could make drinking 18, they'd lose a ton of money.

 

[Arkeband]

Might have a marginal positive effect, but are we going to see cops walking around carding smokers and writing them expensive tickets? Will you have to make a court appearance if you get caught smoking at age 20?

I went to a university where cops tried to wage an all-out war on underage drinking. All it did was cause students to despise the cops while everyone went on drinking anyway.

It might force them to smoke more discretely, which is something smokers are known for not being, as evidenced by the default disposal of a cigarette being to throw it on the ground, or requiring laws to drill it into their heads that no, actually, non-smokers don't want to inhale their clouds of cancer in restaurants or doorways.

It'd be like if people drinking couldn't drink without splashing a little on everyone in the vicinity.

How did lawmakers get to shitting on the tobacco business so much? If they can start doing this to other billion dollar industries that would be nice.

It's when the tobacco industry knew their shit caused cancer and kept marketing it to children.

 

[jerry1594]

How did lawmakers get to shitting on the tobacco business so much? If they can start doing this to other billion dollar industries that would be nice.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

It might force them to smoke more discretely, which is something smokers are known for not being, as evidenced by the default disposal of a cigarette being to throw it on the ground, or requiring laws to drill it into their heads that no, actually, non-smokers don't want to inhale their clouds of cancer in restaurants or doorways.

It'd be like if people drinking couldn't drink without splashing a little on everyone in the vicinity.

Or flicking them out the car window directly into my gas tank causing it to explode.

 

[Jinaar]

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs

A person must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a rifle or shotgun. To purchase a handgun, a person must be at least 21 years of age.

State Laws are weird and inconsistent. Blow your head off with a shotgun at 18 but a cancer stick, not until you're 21, when you can smoke while holding your hand gun like a thug.

 

[PAULINK]

It doesnt matter, kids will smoke and drink regardless of the minimum age.

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

Nah fuck it burn it all down

Consume. EVERYTHING.

I say this as the child of smokers, one who developed COPD

Also I don't really know how anyone under 30 is stupid enough to start smoking. Sure, older generations had televised ads and cartoon camels to make it look really cool, but now with the myriad of big-font warnings and stigma, and being the child of parents with health problems related to smoking, I'm just baffled at how anyone can start

Both of my grandparents on my mother's side died of emphysema.
My dad told my brother and I that if we get to age 18 without smoking we get a $100 bill. I won.

Spoiler

Smoking weed is different.

 

[Shaffield]

good, raising anything above 18 helps to keep it out of high schools.

 

[jblank83]

Everything should be 18. Not sure why 21 became the go-to age for certain vices. An adult is an adult.

The human brain isn't done maturing until the mid 20s. The parts of your brain that stops you from doing stupid things isn't full matured, nor is the part that helps you feel empathy for others, nor the part that keeps you from blowing up at small stressors.

Beyond that, certain substances are very damaging to the growing brain. Marijuana use in teen years hugely increases the risk of developing schizophrenia, for example.