League of Legends |OT13| Diamond is Unreachable

Feb 25, 2010
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zkylon.tumblr.com
I'm not really the target audience for a music video for it so I didn't really wanna comment on it too negatively, but it kind of fits into the larger problem of Riot just not having fun with things now that they are trying to reconstruct their lore. Lots of that stuff is just no frills and very self-serious while failing to really bring the champions together in an interesting way that would represent the in game experience. I think that's part of why I liked the Jinx/Ziggs comic the most, because it brought more unique characters together and was able to have them bouncing off one another. Segregated montages of Ashe/Garen/Lee Sin training kind of just elicit an...."okay?" response from me at this point, which I realize might be overly dismissive, but I'm just not really seeing the hook.
i agree wholeheartly

league is a fun, colorful game, i don't get why they're so bent on making the lore so dark and self-serious

i specially think this is bad in relation to worlds since for me worlds is like the most fun time ever and instead riot chooses to frame it as the dramatic culmination of a whole lot of suffering and sacrifice which is so fucking tired already
 
Dec 8, 2008
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i agree wholeheartly

league is a fun, colorful game, i don't get why they're so bent on making the lore so dark and self-serious

i specially think this is bad in relation to worlds since for me worlds is like the most fun time ever and instead riot chooses to frame it as the dramatic culmination of a whole lot of suffering and sacrifice which is so fucking tired already
I for one appreciated the maturing of the League universe. It will age better this way.
 
Dec 8, 2008
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idk, to me it feels like there's a serious disconnect between the tone of the game and the lore

i don't think it need to be all jokes, but i'd rather they did it overwatch style, where the lightheartedness of one matches the other
I hear you, but personally I like it how it is now. I have not familiized myself with old lore, rather only reading lore based on the new website they released earlier this year or late last year.

That being said, the lore that I did engage with came official video entries over the years like these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzHrjOMfHPY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtEpp9lkfxA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYyuH1Bp2ZI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnT8jVCyh_E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dvYxkyQFZU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjrfYZsZLJA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1nRIX-qvbo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsnDbealN9E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw46WPuXMk0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4PDzBnBMU4

To me these most certainly show the creative direction LoL has been moving in for years. Even the videos with cute/funny elements (like the Braum one) are undeniably dark and sober in their situations. Even the comic stories like the Tahm Kench one, the Camille one, the Sion rework one, and the GP rework one (that featured Twisted Fate) were all pretty dark and serious.

So yea, I feel like the writing has been on that wall for at least the last 3-4 years. I can't remember earlier than that. I suspect that skins will continue to have their fair share of "cute" skins because people like qt stuff, but I think the lore will continue to be consistently sober, with the occasional wispy character here and there.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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idk, to me it feels like there's a serious disconnect between the tone of the game and the lore

i don't think it need to be all jokes, but i'd rather they did it overwatch style, where the lightheartedness of one matches the other
Legends Never Die is the theme song for this year's World Championship, so the music video having Ashe, Garen, and Lee train to get better fits well. If this was just another random cinematic, then it would be understandable for people to talk about the lore and what not, but the video's overall theme paralleled to a competitive tournament makes sense here. That being said, the music video as a product was pretty lame. The animation was meh, and the song isn't that great.

They should just make Warriors the main theme of every LoL World Championship from now on and have diferent music videos with various artists doing their own covers of the song.
 
Jun 6, 2004
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You guys don't like Legends Never Die?

I think it's pretty cool, the song is catchy and the fact that it features the more popular characters is great. It's cool that there's a blind, badass monk but he wasn't always like that, he had to bust his ass to get to that point. Just like in League, you can't just place into Diamond. Gotta work your way up through Elo Hell.
 
Jun 27, 2012
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In a trash can
You guys don't like Legends Never Die?

I think it's pretty cool, the song is catchy and the fact that it features the more popular characters is great. It's cool that there's a blind, badass monk but he wasn't always like that, he had to bust his ass to get to that point. Just like in League, you can't just place into Diamond. Gotta work your way up through Elo Hell.
I like the song, but the video seemed weak compared to something like Warriors.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Dec 22, 2007
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The lore is improving from where it was. When I talk about stuff being self-serious...I mean more in the way that everything is just played very straight and plainly. Even for something out there like Star Guardian the second set didn't really have the goofy take on things the first one did with stuff like Star Guardian Poppy. I feel the same way about the new Halloween skins this year. The read on the video for Legends Never Die was just that it was very plain and didn't really give me any new perspective on the world of League or its characters, or hype me up for worlds, or anything. The way Ignite reinterpreted major competitive League moments was just like a million times cooler for me I guess. I want stuff to be more out there and for more creative risks to be taken I guess.
 
Jul 11, 2014
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The lore is improving from where it was. When I talk about stuff being self-serious...I mean more in the way that everything is just played very straight and plainly. Even for something out there like Star Guardian the second set didn't really have the goofy take on things the first one did with stuff like Star Guardian Poppy. I feel the same way about the new Halloween skins this year. The read on the video for Legends Never Die was just that it was very plain and didn't really give me any new perspective on the world of League or its characters, or hype me up for worlds, or anything. The way Ignite reinterpreted major competitive League moments was just like a million times cooler for me I guess. I want stuff to be more out there and for more creative risks to be taken I guess.
Yeah, Ignite was fucking awesome. I would love if future videos were more like that. Great moments on display of sorts.
 
Dec 28, 2011
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Ignite was a better song and had a much better video. Turning historic competitive LoL moments into an animation, pulling the players and champions together in the same plane, is a super nifty idea. Legends Never Die is a cool song, but the video is fairly bland - some champions training, hurt themselves. If they aren't going to make videos like Warriors and Ignite that have a clear competitive theme, they would need more of a narrative thread to hang them on to grab my attention. Maybe show a group of champions fleeing a lost teamfight, one or two sacrificing themselves so others can scamper back to defend their nexus and buy time for another to backdoor a win?
 
Feb 25, 2010
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zkylon.tumblr.com
I hear you, but personally I like it how it is now. I have not familiized myself with old lore, rather only reading lore based on the new website they released earlier this year or late last year.

That being said, the lore that I did engage with came official video entries over the years like these:

To me these most certainly show the creative direction LoL has been moving in for years. Even the videos with cute/funny elements (like the Braum one) are undeniably dark and sober in their situations. Even the comic stories like the Tahm Kench one, the Camille one, the Sion rework one, and the GP rework one (that featured Twisted Fate) were all pretty dark and serious.

So yea, I feel like the writing has been on that wall for at least the last 3-4 years. I can't remember earlier than that. I suspect that skins will continue to have their fair share of "cute" skins because people like qt stuff, but I think the lore will continue to be consistently sober, with the occasional wispy character here and there.
yeah it's nothing new but i still think it's a lot less representative of the game i play every day, and i kind of wish overwatch's lightheartedness rubbed off to league

i like some of these dark stories, but when shit's overwhelmingly self-serious it just becomes kind of boring. also the lore stories in particular are pretty bullshit with their renditions of characters, i specially hate how ahri and lux who are some of my favorite characters, act nothing like themselves in the stories, it's really frustrating

it's better than before but that's not saying all that much

Legends Never Die is the theme song for this year's World Championship, so the music video having Ashe, Garen, and Lee train to get better fits well. If this was just another random cinematic, then it would be understandable for people to talk about the lore and what not, but the video's overall theme paralleled to a competitive tournament makes sense here. That being said, the music video as a product was pretty lame. The animation was meh, and the song isn't that great.

They should just make Warriors the main theme of every LoL World Championship from now on and have diferent music videos with various artists doing their own covers of the song.
yeah, first point it's true, but i've said it before, worlds for me is like the happiest shit ever, all my favorite teams and players playing together, all the crazy upsets, the wildcard teams getting that one win that ruins someone's season, the secret mf support, etc., it's the best shit ever, and riot's portrayal of it is consistently a bummer

ignite is probably the best video they ever did cos it did this glorious moment of amazing league of legends justice!

warriors, meh, it's not bad but whatever

You guys don't like Legends Never Die?

I think it's pretty cool, the song is catchy and the fact that it features the more popular characters is great. It's cool that there's a blind, badass monk but he wasn't always like that, he had to bust his ass to get to that point. Just like in League, you can't just place into Diamond. Gotta work your way up through Elo Hell.
the song is fine, and the video has a few cool moments, i like garen like barely flinching while tanking that arrow, but yeah, it's kind of just a generic training montage
 
Mar 7, 2011
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Sooo ... is it agreed upon that the Eve Rework, gameplay wise, was a failure?

Not only do her reddit fans hate it but on a personal note I just don't see the flow to it.
She's got the least mobility of any "assassin" and iirc the longest wind up time for her burst.

Even in the AMA the devs for her aren't sure what to tell people who bring up legit core problems in her kit other then telling them they have to wait until runes reforged comes out before then decide to do something..
 
Jul 11, 2014
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Sooo ... is it agreed upon that the Eve Rework, gameplay wise, was a failure?

Not only do her reddit fans hate it but on a personal note I just don't see the flow to it.
She's got the least mobility of any "assassin" and iirc the longest wind up time for her burst.

Even in the AMA the devs for her aren't sure what to tell people who bring up legit core problems in her kit other then telling them they have to wait until runes reforged comes out before then decide to do something..
Hmm. Saying that people should wait for the new rune system and hand waving the criticisms of her kit using that excuse is sloppy. If a champion is dependent on the new rune system to be effective, then that sounds like a failure of her kit, and not the lack of new runes.
 
Apr 5, 2013
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Sooo ... is it agreed upon that the Eve Rework, gameplay wise, was a failure?

Not only do her reddit fans hate it but on a personal note I just don't see the flow to it.
She's got the least mobility of any "assassin" and iirc the longest wind up time for her burst.

Even in the AMA the devs for her aren't sure what to tell people who bring up legit core problems in her kit other then telling them they have to wait until runes reforged comes out before then decide to do something..
I think people like to overreact.

She's no Janna or Graves, with time people will learn how to play her correctly. I think her kit is fine.
 
Mar 25, 2008
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Sooo ... is it agreed upon that the Eve Rework, gameplay wise, was a failure?

Not only do her reddit fans hate it but on a personal note I just don't see the flow to it.
She's got the least mobility of any "assassin" and iirc the longest wind up time for her burst.

Even in the AMA the devs for her aren't sure what to tell people who bring up legit core problems in her kit other then telling them they have to wait until runes reforged comes out before then decide to do something..
Considering what happened to Ivern following the S7 changes, it's not a bad idea.

And most of Reddit more often than not equates a weak champion with a failed champion. There's a post in r/summonserschool right now about Eve and everyone is harping on her being complete crap, and yet here I am noticing that her win rates had trended up every single day since release and she's now approaching 49% before she gets those significant buffs already on the PBE.

On top of that, she has one of the highest win rate deltas in the game right now. Because she's essentially a new champion, that pretty much points to a small pool of players that have adjusted their builds and skill orders while a large amount of players are holding her back.
 
Mar 25, 2008
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If I'm interested in adding a damage oriented jungler to my pool, is there any reason to really put in some time with Rengar if I'm also going to give Kha'Zix a shot too? I'm probably never going to invest a huge amount of time in either, and Kha'Zix looks mechanically more simple and has better early clears, seems safer, etc., so any reason to bother with Rengar? Seems like they both operate around the same rough strategy in a game.

(Just trying to justify trimming my list of champions I need to put time into...)
 
Mar 7, 2011
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Hmm. Saying that people should wait for the new rune system and hand waving the criticisms of her kit using that excuse is sloppy. If a champion is dependent on the new rune system to be effective, then that sounds like a failure of her kit, and not the lack of new runes.
They say they don't want to basically break their necks rushing to buff her only to have it all blow up when people "figure out" how to play her.

I think kit wise she seems like some kinda strange bruiser ... I also feel like her kit was made outta fear. Fear that prema stealth would make her broken if she had the things other assassins have so they made her this way instead of making the prema stealth more interesting..
I think people like to overreact.

She's no Janna or Graves, with time people will learn how to play her correctly. I think her kit is fine.
Considering what happened to Ivern following the S7 changes, it's not a bad idea.

And most of Reddit more often than not equates a weak champion with a failed champion. There's a post in r/summonserschool right now about Eve and everyone is harping on her being complete crap, and yet here I am noticing that her win rates had trended up every single day since release and she's now approaching 49% before she gets those significant buffs already on the PBE.

On top of that, she has one of the highest win rate deltas in the game right now. Because she's essentially a new champion, that pretty much points to a small pool of players that have adjusted their builds and skill orders while a large amount of players are holding her back.
IDK, I'm a fan of Percussive Maintenance. Something could "not work right" but with enough force it can give results. Many champs I feel need a rework still hold down decent to good win rates across different ranks.

Maybe people will find out she's a good brawler or something. Maybe they will refund the cool down of her Q on "any target hit" making her better at applying pressure later in the game. Maybe they will give her a lil AD to build on?

I also don't think it's over-reacting. Most reworks seem to get atleast some fan love on reddit. The whole Eve reddit is just salty and apparent Riot is watching n waiting. Hell, that AMA seemed like they were waiting for players to figure out how she should work without they themselves having a hard grasp on it.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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If I'm interested in adding a damage oriented jungler to my pool, is there any reason to really put in some time with Rengar if I'm also going to give Kha'Zix a shot too? I'm probably never going to invest a huge amount of time in either, and Kha'Zix looks mechanically more simple and has better early clears, seems safer, etc., so any reason to bother with Rengar? Seems like they both operate around the same rough strategy in a game.

(Just trying to justify trimming my list of champions I need to put time into...)

Kha'Zix is harder to play than Rengar, but Kha'Zix is a bit better than Rengar atm. You should give both of them a shot and see which one you like. I'm a bit biased when it comes to Rengar cus he's the best champion in League, but Kha6 is cool too =P
 
May 27, 2013
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Eve is fine. Her kit has nothing number buffs can't fix besides the fact that she has no passive until 6 and even then I would never call her bad at the moment.

Give her some early dueling power and a significantly lower CD on ult and she's good to go. Runes rework will actually be a big deal with champions losing access to free MR so they really need to be careful not to overbuff her.
 
Jul 21, 2015
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Sooo ... is it agreed upon that the Eve Rework, gameplay wise, was a failure?

Not only do her reddit fans hate it but on a personal note I just don't see the flow to it.
She's got the least mobility of any "assassin" and iirc the longest wind up time for her burst.

Even in the AMA the devs for her aren't sure what to tell people who bring up legit core problems in her kit other then telling them they have to wait until runes reforged comes out before then decide to do something..
I would just caution that reddit mains seem to almost always hate any changes to their champion.
 
May 27, 2013
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I would just caution that reddit mains seem to almost always hate any changes to their champion.
Specially a champion that basically had a vomit puddle for a kit. People loved to say how Eve had a versatile kit that you could build anything on but conveniently forget to say that the reason you could build anything on her was because her kit was so jumbled and shite that it was basically impossible to maximize it so you might as well build whatever.

Complaints also mostly boil down to "well she sucks now" when she really doesn't so it's hard to take people seriously.
 
Mar 25, 2008
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Kha'Zix is harder to play than Rengar, but Kha'Zix is a bit better than Rengar atm. You should give both of them a shot and see which one you like. I'm a bit biased when it comes to Rengar cus he's the best champion in League, but Kha6 is cool too =P
Kinda surprised honestly. Just fooling around in customs Kha'Zix seems much more forgiving than Rengar. Like I said earlier, clears more safely early on, good escapes, no odd mechanics to keep track of like Rengar's ferocity stacks.

Champions for which I can't do a level 4 clear by myself without a leash in custom make me nervous in a real game, but that's just me.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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Kinda surprised honestly. Just fooling around in customs Kha'Zix seems much more forgiving than Rengar. Like I said earlier, clears more safely early on, good escapes, no odd mechanics to keep track of like Rengar's ferocity stacks.

Champions for which I can't do a level 4 clear by myself without a leash in custom make me nervous in a real game, but that's just me.
They actually made his ferocity less of a thing to worry about with his rework since it's now an in-combat thing that fades off if he's not attacking anything. Before, you'd have to get like 5 stacks before ulting to Emp Q + auto/Tiamat + Q someone, but now it's all generated when you jump on someone.

I shouldn't have said that Kha6 is "harder" to play. There's just a little more stuff to worry about when fighting people with him. i.e- threading through enemies with ult charges, repositioning with ult charges, timing your kills and resets to hop around and pick people off during fights, plus choosing what to evolve depending on how the game is going/how fed you are. With Rengar, you just press R and leap on a squishy and press buttons.
 
Dec 28, 2011
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Take it from me, Kha is a mechanically complex champion for people who aren't able to play mechanically complex champs. Your stealth buys you a ton of free time to plan out your moves, his leap lets you get where you need to be, and his animations are quite forgiving and easy to cancel. As well as his 1v1s, he's great at flanking and diving backlines in teamfights, especially against immobile champions. Try to track flashes.
 
Aug 16, 2013
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He can still be buffed, but it needs to be in ways like last patch.
Yea that's what i saw them mention bot brand in that patch note.

Seems only issue brand has is waveclear/mana problems? Did the buff help? May try him today to test it out.

Another avenue they can do to buff mid brand w/o buffing sup brand is have blaze do extra damage to minions or lasts a little longer on minions?
 
May 27, 2013
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Yea that's what i saw them mention bot brand in that patch note.

Seems only issue brand has is waveclear/mana problems? Did the buff help? May try him today to test it out.

Another avenue they can do to buff mid brand w/o buffing sup brand is have blaze do extra damage to minions or lasts a little longer on minions?
Its a combination of mana issues + lack of mobility + skillshot reliance. Mana is definitely the biggest problem because he is a mana hog that can't afford to actually build mana, but buffing his mana pool/costs is a quick way to have him go supp and get spammy so its pretty hard to fix that without fucking over bot lane.

Brand's best bet right now is to hope Riot gets creative with mana itemization on the AP item pass coming up.