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[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Console user base for MS/Sony/Nintendo collectively hasn't grown. It actually peaked during the 360/Wii/PS3/handheld days. Dropped and then leveled off. It's basically gamers just trading up to new hardware or swapping platforms.

Check my excel chart recap I did earlier today. In two years, PS3/PS4/PS5 total MAU hasnt changed. It's just swapped up to Ps5.

I think only PC and mobile user base are truly growing in the industry.

Thats not to say money doesn't trend up. Every platform can amp up on mtx or higher prices or sub plan fees etc.... But console hardware unit base hasn't zoomed up the charts with gaming dollar revenue.

Yea this is something I've noticed as well but I expected this gen to break that trend as I assumed Xbox would sell better without the always online controversy of last gen and Playstation to continue to sell but instead Xbox is still doing poor and Playstation is still selling very well.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yea this is something I've noticed as well but I expected this gen to break that trend as I assumed Xbox would sell better without the always online controversy of last gen and Playstation to continue to sell but instead Xbox is still doing poor and Playstation is still selling very well.

Xbox has been trending down but PS sales aren’t gaining beyond what PS4 did. I think PS4/PS5 sales are basically flat when launch aligned. Switch sales are slowing down lately too.

When people post pie charts showing mobile and PC growing make sense though.

You got so many more people entrenched in social media every year, that’s a cellphone/PC kind of activity. Lots of time spent doing that shit.

When it’s time to game, just flip over to cellphone/PC games instead of jumping off and turning on a console.

Also, a console uses up a TV. As tons of people watch TV sub plans, it reinforces why bother with a tv game system.

Sit on the couch and watch NF, while texting or dabbling with mobile games or a laptop nearby.

No wonder MS/Sony are gunning for sub plans and streaming on other devices. Instead of losing a console gamer entirely, the guy perhaps hitches into a sub plan on a smartphone stream so it’s not a total loss of customer.

That’s my holistic theory why console hardware hasn’t shot up like the industry has.

 

[{insert code here}]

For comparison:

Steam 120.3 Million MAU (Oct 2023)
Xbox: 120 Million MAU (Jan 2023)
Nintendo Switch: 116 Million MAU (July 2023)
Playstation: 109.3 Million MAU(Feb 2023)

But muh engagements!

Honestly it's kinda neat to see them all within 10M of one another.

 

[T-0800]

Still use my ps3 for ps2 jrpgs, God of War Collection, and Driver San Francisco.

I played Driver recently on my PS3 and was amazed at how good it looks.

 

[Dorfdad]

Cross gen will never end and shouldn’t if I was managing Sony just way too much money to leave on the table!

 

[shaddam]

Wonder what would be the ps3 usage if there would be a functioning web store and game discounts

 

[Crayon]

Thanks to extended cross-gen, the PS4 is kind of doing what the series s was supposed to do, but better because they were already sold. It's worked as a little brother system for half a gen. Now we're starting to get more ngo games but the playable library on the thing will make it a good hand me down for a few more years.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Those MAU for PlayStation are solid, especially as they haven't yet executed on their off console experience to the degree they want.

 

[EDMIX]

Nice PS3 numbers. I still use mine.

Same.

I can't even tell you guys how much old shows I've been watching that I've put on that HDD lol

They all organized by seasons in folders and shit lol

I can try, but the list would be fucking wild.

 

[BrunoCoel]

Xbox has been trending down but PS sales aren’t gaining beyond what PS4 did. I think PS4/PS5 sales are basically flat when launch aligned. Switch sales are slowing down lately too.

When people post pie charts showing mobile and PC growing make sense though.

You got so many more people entrenched in social media every year, that’s a cellphone/PC kind of activity. Lots of time spent doing that shit.

When it’s time to game, just flip over to cellphone/PC games instead of jumping off and turning on a console.

Also, a console uses up a TV. As tons of people watch TV sub plans, it reinforces why bother with a tv game system.

Sit on the couch and watch NF, while texting or dabbling with mobile games or a laptop nearby.

No wonder MS/Sony are gunning for sub plans and streaming on other devices. Instead of losing a console gamer entirely, the guy perhaps hitches into a sub plan on a smartphone stream so it’s not a total loss of customer.

That’s my holistic theory why console hardware hasn’t shot up like the industry has.

This is the first time I see a theory where PC is a more practical plataform than consoles and I have to strongly disagree.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

Same.

I can't even tell you guys how much old shows I've been watching that I've put on that HDD lol

They all organized by seasons in folders and shit lol

I can try, but the list would be fucking wild.

PS3 is an amazing gaming & Multi-media machine. Fired that baby up a few times this year to replay some games. I miss this Generation of gaming!

 

[SScorpio]

Don't mind me, just playing on my Vita wondering why there are no numbers for it. There's got to be dozens of us.

 

[Kupfer]

Don't mind me, just playing on my Vita wondering why there are no numbers for it. There's got to be dozens of us.

I'm one of the dozen

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

This is the first time I see a theory where PC is a more practical plataform than consoles and I have to strongly disagree.

Nowadays almost everybody owns a PC or a laptop. The moment the wide ranged set of games is available on laptops (and it is already happening), console gaming is dead - almost everybody owns a laptop these days. And ARM will make that into reality.

Arguably, even Geforce Now is something like a precursor to all of this - you can play your games on your laptop. The only limitation is content restrictions (like you own this game here, this game there, you can't play it here and so on). But PC gaming is following a mobile trajectory - would not be surprised if in 5-10 years, every mobile phone will be a PC with a full blown Windows/Android/Mac OS in a handheld/mobile mode. Apple with its iPhone, iPad and Macbook is close to this already.

 

[gaming_again]

Those PS3 numbers warm my heart.

 

[gaming_again]

Nowadays almost everybody owns a PC or a laptop. The moment the wide ranged set of games is available on laptops (and it is already happening), console gaming is dead - almost everybody owns a laptop these days. And ARM will make that into reality.

Arguably, even Geforce Now is something like a precursor to all of this - you can play your games on your laptop. The only limitation is content restrictions (like you own this game here, this game there, you can't play it here and so on). But PC gaming is following a mobile trajectory - would not be surprised if in 5-10 years, every mobile phone will be a PC with a full blown Windows/Android/Mac OS in a handheld/mobile mode. Apple with its iPhone, iPad and Macbook is close to this already.

I suspect most people will be streaming games directly off servers. Only the hardcore/internet deprived will store stuff locally.

 

[gaming_again]

Same.

I can't even tell you guys how much old shows I've been watching that I've put on that HDD lol

They all organized by seasons in folders and shit lol

I can try, but the list would be fucking wild.

Asian_anal
Asian_blowjob
Asian_cum
BBW_anal
[...]?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Only the hardcore/internet deprived will store stuff locally.

The irony is that in order to get something locally you have to download 100GB+ in advance

 

[BrunoCoel]

Nowadays almost everybody owns a PC or a laptop. The moment the wide ranged set of games is available on laptops (and it is already happening), console gaming is dead - almost everybody owns a laptop these days. And ARM will make that into reality.

Arguably, even Geforce Now is something like a precursor to all of this - you can play your games on your laptop. The only limitation is content restrictions (like you own this game here, this game there, you can't play it here and so on). But PC gaming is following a mobile trajectory - would not be surprised if in 5-10 years, every mobile phone will be a PC with a full blown Windows/Android/Mac OS in a handheld/mobile mode. Apple with its iPhone, iPad and Macbook is close to this already.

This isn’t close to being true lol

General people don’t give a shit if their computer can play games. Next year with Switch 2 and PS5 selling tons of units will make things be more clear in regards of this.

It’s a shame that the Xbox is failing so bad to be able to help.

 

[AGRacing]

Wonder how much of that is related to the covid pandemic and lockdowns.

I can imagine that the pandemic inflated numbers across the board due to people being stuck at home.
(Goes for any live-service, btw)

I’m out for the first time since it started on PS3 and it’s got nothing to do with covid.

 

[WoodyStare]

I love the PS3 and still use it all of the time. So many great exclusive games and a reliable Blu-ray player.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

This isn’t close to being true lol

General people don’t give a shit if their computer can play games. Next year with Switch 2 and PS5 selling tons of units will make things be more clear in regards of this.

Except it is. PC and mobile (though mobile is not growing that much anymore) are growing, while Switch and PS will sell consoles to the same people who bought Switch 1 and PS4. And we literally have all the charts from Sony to confirm all of this.

 

[March Climber]

Nowadays almost everybody owns a PC or a laptop. The moment the wide ranged set of games is available on laptops (and it is already happening), console gaming is dead - almost everybody owns a laptop these days. And ARM will make that into reality.

Arguably, even Geforce Now is something like a precursor to all of this - you can play your games on your laptop. The only limitation is content restrictions (like you own this game here, this game there, you can't play it here and so on). But PC gaming is following a mobile trajectory - would not be surprised if in 5-10 years, every mobile phone will be a PC with a full blown Windows/Android/Mac OS in a handheld/mobile mode. Apple with its iPhone, iPad and Macbook is close to this already.

The most interesting thing here is that you truly believe mobile isn’t a future threat to PC.

The second most interesting thing here is that you don’t see how the rise of portable consoles(Switch, Steam Deck) are a potential threat to traditional PC gaming.

I would mention streaming as the third threat but it’s still too much of a wild card.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

The most interesting thing here is that you truly believe mobile isn’t a future threat to PC.

The second most interesting thing here is that you don’t see how the rise of portable consoles(Switch, Steam Deck) are a potential threat to traditional PC gaming.

I would mention streaming as the third threat but it’s still too much of a wild card.

Each and every device is becoming a PC. Mobile phones are getting more and more functionality and gradually transition to PC (hell, with ARM platform it will reach a point where mobile phones will run the same hardware as handhelds or even mini PCs). Each device is becoming more PC-like. Not vice versa.

When a mobile phone (or handheld) can be connected to a keyboard and a monitor, while having the performance comparable to the laptop + support of PC applications (tools) - is it a mobile phone still? Or is it a PC?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I’m out for the first time since it started on PS3 and it’s got nothing to do with covid.

Cool.

Just saying that since the data starts at january 2021, the drop coincides with the end of the pandemic and lockdowns.
Just like how gaming saw boosts when the pandemic and lockdowns started.

This goes for gaming in general, but if it doesn't concern you, you can just ignore my post.

 

[March Climber]

Each and every device is becoming a PC. Mobile phones are getting more and more functionality and gradually transition to PC (hell, with ARM platform it will reach a point where mobile phones will run the same hardware as handhelds or even mini PCs). Each device is becoming more PC-like. Not vice versa.

When a mobile phone (or handheld) can be connected to a keyboard and a monitor, while having the performance comparable to the laptop + support of PC applications (tools) - is it a mobile phone still? Or is it a PC?

I think you will be surprised when Apple doesn't lean into the future you're wanting. I won't be, because it's Apple

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I think you will be surprised when Apple doesn't lean into the future you're wanting. I won't be, because it's Apple

Except Apple is already leaning into that future? And it has been doing that for years. Their mobile/handheld/tv/macbook initiative is gradually becoming the same platform running the same (or almost the same hardware) with a proper compatibility. Own device X -> you can run your apps on device A, B, C. Fully unified ecosystem is a future. Apple devices are becoming more and more unified. Not less. Same store, same subscription, same architecture across all the devices.

Convenience will win. Let's take RE Village as the example. You can play it on iPhone now. Now imagine buying it on MacOS and being able to play it on iPhone and iPad. That's the future. Or you have Steam installed. You can play games on your Steam Deck. You don't need to buy them again for that device. And you still fully capable of running those games on any device with Steam installed and your account.

 

[March Climber]

Except Apple is already leaning into that future? And it has been doing that for years. Their mobile/handheld/tv/macbook initiative is gradually becoming the same platform running the same (or almost the same hardware) with a proper compatibility. Own device X -> you can run your apps on device A, B, C. Fully unified ecosystem is a future. Apple devices are becoming more and more unified. Not less. Same store, same subscription, same architecture across all the devices.

Save this post and tell me I was wrong 10 years from now when iPhone becomes that fully open software platform like PC.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Save this post and tell me I was wrong 10 years from now when iPhone becomes that fully open software platform like PC.

Not sure what "being open" has anything to do with the ability to use your content across multiple devices within the same (or multiple) ecosystems. Granted, Apple will have to open their store sooner or later. It is inevitable on a long timeline.

 

[AGRacing]

Cool.

Just saying that since the data starts at january 2021, the drop coincides with the end of the pandemic and lockdowns.
Just like how gaming saw boosts when the pandemic and lockdowns started.

This goes for gaming in general, but if it doesn't concern you, you can just ignore my post.

I meant to elaborate on that and hit post before I got pulled away. I’m sure you’re right about a net negative for indoor entertainment. In the spirit of the holidays I apologize for the tone.

But Sony should take a serious look at the perceived value of PlayStation + when it started vs. right now. I’ve ALWAYS been a Sony is no.1 guy. If I’m not at all enthusiastic about the service something is wrong.

Also - and game pass should take note of this - they are seriously diminishing the perceived value of all games by dumping a bunch of them on your lap for a fee. They’ve accidentally trained me not to buy anything on day 1 anymore. They’ve made me learn to be patient on something like Robocop whereas before I’d have immediately bought it.

I hate it when the industry has a bad idea and just insists they’ve ‘gotta do it’ because everybody else will. Reminds me of where Xbox tried to go with Xbox One. The “all in one box” was dreamed about as where it all was going by the industry since the 90s. How many articles were written about the how the first company to crack the “one box to do it all” formula would win it all. It never happened. Nothing in this space is inevitable. They’re devaluing their own product and the excuse is “we have to”. They don’t.

 

[March Climber]

Not sure what "being open" has anything to do with the ability to use your content across multiple devices within the same (or multiple) ecosystems.

That's what it means to be a PC, not simply connectivity. Them solving a connectivity problem between iPhones and Mac is a far cry from them actually being as open as a PC.

 

[Arsic]

I expect a longer console gen for 5 than even 4. Give it another 3 years and they can get another 20m bought.

Games like SH2 remake, Wolverine, MGS3 remake, ff7 r part 2 will help with some of that but they need a giga IP must have for the console which doesn’t exist yet IMO.

Naughty Dog IP has that potential to move a lot of consoles even if I think shit about the studio. I don’t see any other studio creating a defacto must own console to play this game.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I meant to elaborate on that and hit post before I got pulled away. I’m sure you’re right about a net negative for indoor entertainment. In the spirit of the holidays I apologize for the tone.

It's all good.

But Sony should take a serious look at the perceived value of PlayStation + when it started vs. right now. I’ve ALWAYS been a Sony is no.1 guy. If I’m not at all enthusiastic about the service something is wrong.

Also - and game pass should take note of this - they are seriously diminishing the perceived value of all games by dumping a bunch of them on your lap for a fee. They’ve accidentally trained me not to buy anything on day 1 anymore. They’ve made me learn to be patient on something like Robocop whereas before I’d have immediately bought it.

I hate it when the industry has a bad idea and just insists they’ve ‘gotta do it’ because everybody else will. Reminds me of where Xbox tried to go with Xbox One. The “all in one box” was dreamed about as where it all was going by the industry since the 90s. How many articles were written about the how the first company to crack the “one box to do it all” formula would win it all. It never happened. Nothing in this space is inevitable. They’re devaluing their own product and the excuse is “we have to”. They don’t.

I think you're right with what you're saying.

As far as Sony goes, PS+ has become very meh with their offerings.
I can understand why people drop PS+, I'm often considering it myself.

It's mainly for multiplayer that I sub to PS+, but tbh with the introduction of f2p, there is gradually less incentive to keep paying for PS+.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

That's what it means to be a PC, not simply connectivity. Them solving a connectivity problem between iPhones and Mac is a far cry from them actually being as open as a PC.

PC is not about being open. At least it hasn't been that way for years. Especially since the emergence of laptops.

 

[March Climber]

PC is not about being open. At least it hasn't been that way for years. Especially since the emergence of laptops.

?

Yes, it is. That's one of the many reasons why people on this forum like PC and constantly put it above other platforms. Not only hardware openness but software as well. Also, laptops are still open software? Again, save my above post about iPhone and come back to this forum in 10 years to tell me I was wrong. And when you do, don't cheat and claim that it's open(due to a couple of changes) when it's not. I want to be 100% wrong. I'd rather you do that so that I could fully feel that I was in the wrong about my prediction.

 

[Unknown?]

Xbox has been trending down but PS sales aren’t gaining beyond what PS4 did. I think PS4/PS5 sales are basically flat when launch aligned. Switch sales are slowing down lately too.

When people post pie charts showing mobile and PC growing make sense though.

You got so many more people entrenched in social media every year, that’s a cellphone/PC kind of activity. Lots of time spent doing that shit.

When it’s time to game, just flip over to cellphone/PC games instead of jumping off and turning on a console.

Also, a console uses up a TV. As tons of people watch TV sub plans, it reinforces why bother with a tv game system.

Sit on the couch and watch NF, while texting or dabbling with mobile games or a laptop nearby.

No wonder MS/Sony are gunning for sub plans and streaming on other devices. Instead of losing a console gamer entirely, the guy perhaps hitches into a sub plan on a smartphone stream so it’s not a total loss of customer.

That’s my holistic theory why console hardware hasn’t shot up like the industry has.

PS5 is catching up and will surpass PS4 and the only reason it's below is that there was a pandemic with two years of shortages.

?

Yes, it is. That's one of the many reasons why people on this forum like PC and constantly put it above other platforms. Not only hardware openness but software as well. Also, laptops are still open software? Again, save my above post about iPhone and come back to this forum in 10 years to tell me I was wrong. And when you do, don't cheat and claim that it's open(due to a couple of changes) when it's not. I want to be 100% wrong. I'd rather you do that so that I could fully feel that I was in the wrong about my prediction.

Huh? You don't have an open platform with proprietary trash such as Windows.

 

[Fabieter]

For comparison:

Steam 120.3 Million MAU (Oct 2023)
Xbox: 120 Million MAU (Jan 2023)
Nintendo Switch: 116 Million MAU (July 2023)
Playstation: 109.3 Million MAU(Feb 2023)

So sony is last place and therefore not competitive. I hear the best cure is to eat some of the biggest publisher and dint give a fuck about the real problems in your company.

Spoiler: I mean

/s

 

[Fabieter]

Xbox has been trending down but PS sales aren’t gaining beyond what PS4 did. I think PS4/PS5 sales are basically flat when launch aligned. Switch sales are slowing down lately too.

When people post pie charts showing mobile and PC growing make sense though.

You got so many more people entrenched in social media every year, that’s a cellphone/PC kind of activity. Lots of time spent doing that shit.

When it’s time to game, just flip over to cellphone/PC games instead of jumping off and turning on a console.

Also, a console uses up a TV. As tons of people watch TV sub plans, it reinforces why bother with a tv game system.

Sit on the couch and watch NF, while texting or dabbling with mobile games or a laptop nearby.

No wonder MS/Sony are gunning for sub plans and streaming on other devices. Instead of losing a console gamer entirely, the guy perhaps hitches into a sub plan on a smartphone stream so it’s not a total loss of customer.

That’s my holistic theory why console hardware hasn’t shot up like the industry has.

Consoles has a core and attract alot of new gamers. Alot of them start on consoles and switch over to pc. Ps5 would have sold like 300m consoles if everyone who's switching over would still be on Playstation.

 

[Punished Miku]

I meant to elaborate on that and hit post before I got pulled away. I’m sure you’re right about a net negative for indoor entertainment. In the spirit of the holidays I apologize for the tone.

But Sony should take a serious look at the perceived value of PlayStation + when it started vs. right now. I’ve ALWAYS been a Sony is no.1 guy. If I’m not at all enthusiastic about the service something is wrong.

Also - and game pass should take note of this - they are seriously diminishing the perceived value of all games by dumping a bunch of them on your lap for a fee. They’ve accidentally trained me not to buy anything on day 1 anymore. They’ve made me learn to be patient on something like Robocop whereas before I’d have immediately bought it.

I hate it when the industry has a bad idea and just insists they’ve ‘gotta do it’ because everybody else will. Reminds me of where Xbox tried to go with Xbox One. The “all in one box” was dreamed about as where it all was going by the industry since the 90s. How many articles were written about the how the first company to crack the “one box to do it all” formula would win it all. It never happened. Nothing in this space is inevitable. They’re devaluing their own product and the excuse is “we have to”. They don’t.

I buy a ton of games for Xbox and I almost never have games show up on GP that I already owned. Only happened a few times in almost 3 years. The big difference is how much emphasis GP puts on day 1 games.

PS+ Extra though is literally almost all older games, at least 1 year. Personally I dont see how one could really use the service if they do buy a lot of games since you'd just be double paying. The day one model honestly doesnt incentivize waiting as much as people think, for me at least. PS+ though is literally conditioning you to wait 1-3 years just to get value from your sub.

 

[swaffles23]

I still play PS3 a lot. A lot of great games that are still stuck on that gen and plus it's still fairly cheap to collect for

 

[AGRacing]

I buy a ton of games for Xbox and I almost never have games show up on GP that I already owned. Only happened a few times in almost 3 years. The big difference is how much emphasis GP puts on day 1 games.

PS+ Extra though is literally almost all older games, at least 1 year. Personally I dont see how one could really use the service if they do buy a lot of games since you'd just be double paying. The day one model honestly doesnt incentivize waiting as much as people think, for me at least. PS+ though is literally conditioning you to wait 1-3 years just to get value from your sub.

I kind of agree but they’re both ways of devaluing in the end.

I own both consoles too. I now sub to game pass but NOT to PS+ mainly due to what you outline. But I noticed with the Forza Motorsport release as well that it felt like a shoulder shrug moment and it shouldn’t have. It’s kind of sad, really. I’m probably just an old guy who missed a better time.

I think it was better for games long term when someone had to be brought in via word of mouth, magazine ads or reviews, etc to get interested in a title… then actually decide to invest money into that title specifically… then (partly because they did that) give the game a REAL chance and either love it or not.

Because I’ve invested nothing… there has been occasional times I’ve tried something new via the subs… but if they violate any key rule (like a 6 minute unskippable intro cutscene) I just close the book on it forever. I just bought Avatar on PC… and the intro was so ridiculous I would have definitely said “screw this” if it were a subscription game. I stuck with it because I paid for it and wanted to see the forest.. and an hour later when I finally did it was cool. But man… you just can’t get away with that anymore and expect your game to break through. It won’t.

And games in general just don’t feel special anymore. Rarely, anyway.

I guess the one thing game pass at least tries to do is curate the games in some way. A Netflix like menu that tries to help you pick a new experience.

Anyway. I think they’re a net negative for the industry and therefore the industry should reject them.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I suspect most people will be streaming games directly off servers. Only the hardcore/internet deprived will store stuff locally.

I agree.

The progression of video game consumption will go like:

Owning physical copies replaced by licensing digital copies replaced by streaming replaced by...playback via neural implant?

Regarding the NEOGAF Physical vs Digital debate: I'll be curious to see what the folks saying digital beats physical will say about streaming once streaming's market share starts increasing.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Consoles has a core and attract alot of new gamers. Alot of them start on consoles and switch over to pc. Ps5 would have sold like 300m consoles if everyone who's switching over would still be on Playstation.

3 billion if no other devices existed The truth of the matter is that MAU does not grow. And MAU includes even those who play F2P games.

 

[FeralEcho]

PSTriple fam representing.Just bought GTA IV,Dead Space 3 and Castlevania LoS 2 for it and also replayed Infamous 1 and 2 as well as Motorstorm Apocalypse just recently. I love this console so much

 

[Alex Anderson]

Man, I'd love to know the Vita number.