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Left leaning anti-scientific beliefs

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You have to ingest a lot of fluoride for it to have adverse affects. The amount in the water supply is not going to harm you. You'd probably be fine swallowing the tooth paste too.

I'm sure I won't die the moment I swallow it. If I kept swallowing it over the years, then maybe something bad could happen. Maybe there's something else in my super fluouridated toothpaste that I shouldn't swallow.

I have some rather ugly looking fluorosis on a few of my rear teeth and my dentists keep thinking it's a cavity and whack it with the scalar which hurts. Better than real cavities though!

I wonder why Japan stopped fluoridating water. They did til the 70s but then stopped.

Artificial Sweetners are not good for you. Your body can be tricked into over eating by getting used to consuming sweet things(taste is the way your body controls calories) but personally, they taste terrible. They leave this sweet, mucky taste in your mouth long after you've eaten whatever it is.

I think Monsanto is evil, primarily for patenting genes and shaking down farmers.
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
I'm sure I won't die the moment I swallow it. If I kept swallowing it over the years, then maybe something bad could happen. Maybe there's something else in my super fluouridated toothpaste that I shouldn't swallow.

I have some rather ugly looking fluorosis on a few of my rear teeth and my dentists keep thinking it's a cavity and whack it with the scalar which hurts. Better than real cavities though!

I wonder why Japan stopped fluoridating water. They did til the 70s but then stopped.

Artificial Sweetners are not good for you. Your body can be tricked into over eating by getting used to consuming sweet things(taste is the way your body controls calories) but personally, they taste terrible. They leave this sweet, mucky taste in your mouth long after you've eaten whatever it is.

I think Monsanto is evil, primarily for patenting genes and shaking down farmers.
So are you saying that you think fluoride in the water is dangerous, even if the science isn't backing that?

There is no proof artificial sweeteners do that, only correlation that people who drink diet often have problems with overconsumption. Which, isn't compelling.

Monsanto doesn't shake down farmers, and every company who works in a field with gene creation patents them. It's just the price of working in these fields. Do you think no one should work on GMOs because that fundamentally requires patenting? Or do you think only the government should do it? Also, do you know patents run out after a short time? What harm do you think has so far arisen from the patenting of BT genes, for example?
 

DOWN

Banned
^Yes, he's saying he doesn't believe science no way. The post proving OP right.

Fluoride's only known side effect is cosmetic white streaking from high dosage. That's not the dosage in water.

Artificial sweeteners are some of the most tested and conclusively safe food ingredients in the world. The correlation with overeating was not supported at large because it didn't account for the subjects' initial likelihood of overeating and the possibility that they were using low calorie products for potential overeating issues they already possessed.
 

web01

Member
Personal pet peeve: the sheer hypocrisy in being noncritical of science that aligns with their interests. For example, a study where one finds that a cannabinoid kills an arbitrary amount of cancer cells in culture can be praised as some sort of breakthrough justifying marijuana use, but any study that claims harmful effects gets put through the ringer e.g. "sample size is too small", as if they would know what the fuck actually constitutes a small sample size.

This is the absolute worst. Is very much associated with drug culture.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
More broadly -- even outside of this particular topic -- I have observed conservatives will tend to think the worst of governments (i.e. they will see incompetence and corruption everywhere), while liberals tend to think the worst of huge corporations (i.e. they see greed and corruption everywhere).

I mean...that is literally the purpose of a capitalist business. Find the most optimal way to extract the most money from the surrounding population.
 

DOWN

Banned
One of the worst left-leaning, anti-science offenses is denying the health benefits of circumcision.
Eh, there are benefits of little weight in modern developed nations. For those reasons, organizations like the WHO only give universal recommendation to specific at-risk regions. There's not much of an argument to be made in favor of circumcision in the developed western nations.
 

Des0lar

will learn eventually
One of the worst left-leaning, anti-science offenses is denying the health benefits of circumcision.
Never seen anyone deny them.

If they are of any use in any modern nation alongside the probable traumatic experience for the baby. That's the main issue people have. Also cutting of sensitive areas of the body.
 

Opiate

Member
I mean...that is literally the purpose of a capitalist business. Find the most optimal way to extract the most money from the surrounding population.

I think this is an over simplified view of capitalism. I think most people distinguish (For instance) between a couple who open a bakery to earn a living and a large multinational corporation which is looking to increase profits so that the CEO can have a larger parachute. We distinguish even amongst large corporations between an action that needs to be taken (i.e. raising prices) just so that a product line doesn't go under, and an action taken to extract greater profits from a populace because the company knows they have a monopoly and the consumer base is stuck.

If you think every attempt to make a profit qualifies as "greed," then sure. I don't think most view the world that way, though.
 

injurai

Banned
Nah man. Even Obama's CDC is recommending it now. All benefit, very little drawbacks.
Check out Pubmed.

I'll check it out, but as a cut fellow I can attest that it isn't entirely without drawbacks. Having an exposed tip has been problematic on more than one occasion for me. The physical front I've been worn raw from hiking and swimming in the ocean. Extremely painful. On the psychological front I can't help but think it set an unfortunate precedent about not allowing myself any sort of arousal while in a public setting. Was just too uncomfortable to feel the slightest amount of rubbing against clothing. It would be interesting to see a study about adolescent development between cases.
 

dinazimmerman

Incurious Bastard
I think this is an over simplified view of capitalism. I think most people distinguish (For instance) between a couple who open a bakery to earn a living and a large multinational corporation which is looking to increase profits so that the CEO can have a larger parachute. We distinguish even amongst large corporations between an action that needs to be taken (i.e. raising prices) just so that a product line doesn't go under, and an action taken to extract greater profits from a populace because the company knows they have a monopoly and the consumer base is stuck.

If you think every attempt to make a profit qualifies as "greed," then sure. I don't think most view the world that way, though.

Also, one must always proceed with caution when attributing consistent goals, e.g. profit-maximization, to businesses, as they are often composed of many decision-makers with conflicting interests. Same is true with most organizations for that matter.

A more substantial point -- even if firms were pure profit-maximizers, profit-maximization usually entails engaging in "fair" behavior. Firms care about their reputation. Firms are constrained by community standards of fairness (https://www.princeton.edu/~kahneman/docs/Publications/Fairness_DK_JLK_RHT_1986.pdf). Firms only tend to do outrageous things when they can keep their actions hidden from consumers and other external monitors.
 

Arthrus

Member
As someone who has worked in nuclear and wireless industries, there's a lot of ignorance about both. I don't know if they're particularly left-leaning, but the left has just as many misconceptions as the right.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
As someone who has worked in nuclear and wireless industries, there's a lot of ignorance about both. I don't know if they're particularly left-leaning, but the left has just as many misconceptions as the right.

That's kind of how I feel about when I worked at a large pharma company. There's all this conspiracy theory nonsense about how things are run, and it's relly just people going to work and trying to do the best they can
 

ameratsu

Member
Ugh, I identify as left-leaning but I had a few dates with a girl who I would describe as a walking naturalistic fallacy. Off the top of my head

  • Contends to know so much about nutrition that she advises her yoga class particpiants on healthy eating, despite having no formal training whatsoever
  • Puts so much stock the astrological sign of her partners that choosing incorrectly on that basis alone would lead to an awful relationship
  • Agrees with parents "right to choose" when it comes to childhood vaccines
  • Talks about unproven stuff like reiki and acupuncture as if it has any merit whatsoever

I will readily admit that I used to buy into all sorts of conspiracy theories, especially regarding nutrition, marijuana, and fluoridation when I was a teenager. Over time I have become very much pro-science. I can't stand positions like these anymore, it's just infuriating.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Ugh, I identify as left-leaning but I had a few dates with a girl who I would describe as a walking naturalistic fallacy. Off the top of my head
  • Contends to know so much about nutrition that she advises her yoga class particpiants on healthy eating, despite having no formal training whatsoever
  • Puts so much stock the astrological sign of her partners that choosing incorrectly on that basis alone would lead to an awful relationship
  • Agrees with parents "right to choose" when it comes to childhood vaccines
  • Talks about unproven stuff like reiki and acupuncture as if it has any merit whatsoever

I will readily admit that I used to buy into all sorts of conspiracy theories, especially regarding nutrition, marijuana, and fluoridation when I was a teenager. Over time I have become very much pro-science. I can't stand positions like these anymore, it's just infuriating.
Send her this:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-dont-vaccinate-my-child-because-its-my-right-to,37839
:D
 

dinazimmerman

Incurious Bastard
I thought this Scott Alexander post was very relevant to this thread:

SOCIETY IS FIXED, BIOLOGY IS MUTABLE

Today during an otherwise terrible lecture on ADHD I realized something important we get sort of backwards.

There’s this stereotype that the Left believes that human characteristics are socially determined, and therefore mutable. And social problems are easy to fix, through things like education and social services and public awareness campaigns and “calling people out”, and so we have a responsiblity to fix them, thus radically improving society and making life better for everyone.

But the Right (by now I guess the far right) believes human characteristics are biologically determined, and biology is fixed. Therefore we shouldn’t bother trying to improve things, and any attempt is just utopianism or “immanentizing the eschaton” or a shady justification for tyranny and busybodyness.

And I think I reject this whole premise.

See, my terrible lecture on ADHD suggested several reasons for the increasing prevalence of the disease. Of these I remember two: the spiritual desert of modern adolescence, and insufficient iron in the diet. And I remember thinking “Man, I hope it’s the iron one, because that seems a lot easier to fix.”

Society is really hard to change. We figured drug use was “just” a social problem, and it’s obvious how to solve social problems, so we gave kids nice little lessons in school about how you should Just Say No. There were advertisements in sports and video games about how Winners Don’t Do Drugs. And just in case that didn’t work, the cherry on the social engineering sundae was putting all the drug users in jail, where they would have a lot of time to think about what they’d done and be so moved by the prospect of further punishment that they would come clean.

And that is why, even to this day, nobody uses drugs.

On the other hand, biology is gratifyingly easy to change. Sometimes it’s just giving people more iron supplements. But the best example is lead. Banning lead was probably kind of controversial at the time, but in the end some refineries probably had to change their refining process and some gas stations had to put up “UNLEADED” signs and then we were done. And crime dropped like fifty percent in a couple of decades – including many forms of drug abuse.

Saying “Tendency toward drug abuse is primarily determined by fixed brain structure” sounds callous, like you’re abandoning drug abusers to die. But maybe it means you can fight the problem head-on instead of forcing kids to attend more and more useless classes where cartoon animals sing about how happy they are not using cocaine.

What about obesity? We put a lot of social effort into fighting obesity: labeling foods, banning soda machines from school, banning large sodas from New York, programs in schools to promote healthy eating, doctors chewing people out when they gain weight, the profusion of gyms and Weight Watchers programs, and let’s not forget a level of stigma against obese people so strong that I am constantly having to deal with their weight-related suicide attempts. As a result, everyone…keeps gaining weight at exactly the same rate they have been for the past couple decades. Wouldn’t it be nice if increasing obesity was driven at least in part by changes in the intestinal microbiota that we could reverse through careful antibiotic use? Or by trans-fats?

What about poor school performance? From the social angle, we try No Child Left Behind, Common Core Curriculum, stronger teachers’ unions, weaker teachers’ unions, more pay for teachers, less pay for teachers, more prayer in school, banning prayer in school, condemning racism, condemning racism even more, et cetera. But the poorest fifth or so of kids show spectacular cognitive gains from multivitamin supplementation, and doctors continue to tell everyone schools should start later so children can get enough sleep and continue to be totally ignored despite strong evidence in favor.

Even the most politically radioactive biological explanation – genetics – doesn’t seem that scary to me. The more things turn out to be genetic, the more I support universal funding for implantable contraception that allow people to choose when they do or don’t want children – thus breaking the cycle where people too impulsive or confused to use contraception have more children and increase frequency of those undesirable genes. I think I’d have a heck of a lot easier a time changing gene frequency in the population than you would changing people’s locus of control or self-efficacy or whatever, even if I wasn’t allowed to do anything immoral (except by very silly religious standards of “immoral”).

I’m not saying that all problems are purely biological and none are social. But I do worry there’s a consensus that biological things are unfixable but social things are easy – or that social solutions are morally unambiguous but biological solutions necessarily monstrous – and so for any given biological/social breakdown of a problem, we figure we might as well put all our resources into attacking the more tractable social side and dismiss the biological side. I think there’s a sense in which that’s backwards, and in which it’s possible to marry scientific rigor with human compassion for the evils of the world.
http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biology-is-mutable/

And for that matter, very relevant to the fat-shaming thread, as well.

The takeaway point is that no "side" is immune from motivated reasoning, and this can often make us blind to practical solutions to common problems.
 

Xe4

Banned
Wanting GMO labeling is liberal tinfoilry? Jesus Christ.

It's a way to scare people for no good reason. If everyone could see a label without freaking out, I'd be for GMO labeling as well, but the public believes that if something is labeled, then it must be bad. I see it as one of the first steps in the process to try to make GMO foods illegal.
 

jotun?

Member
The people who say we shouldn't waste money on space exploration or high energy physics while there are starving children in africa or whatever
 

injurai

Banned
It's a way to scare people for no good reason. If everyone could see a label without freaking out, I'd be for GMO labeling as well, but the public believes that if something is labeled, then it must be bad. I see it as one of the first steps in the process to try to make GMO foods illegal.

Or conversely they think USDA Organic means it's inline with their organic beliefs. It's not.

Also fuck people who think MSG is harmful.
 
There was a poll on the Weather Network the other day about genetically modified trees that emit natural light, and the idea was to replace street lights with those. 65% of people opposed that. Not sure if it was left-leaning or right-leaning but it still irked me.

I'd be against it as well.
Light pollution is becoming a huge issue for wildlife. Streetlights make it easy to direct the light they emit to a safe area. Trees that glow would not allow this and could potentially destroy a natural habitat of many species.
 

injurai

Banned
I'd be against it as well.
Light pollution is becoming a huge issue for wildlife. Streetlights make it easy to direct the light they emit to a safe area. Trees that glow would not allow this and could potentially destroy a natural habitat of many species.

Unless we somehow engineering a strain of impotent trees. Keeping them solely in cities. But it certainly is something that needs to be handled delicately.
 
Because it is unecessary and has no purpose beyond consoling anti science activists. Just like every single product in existence in California now has that asinine cancer causing warning. It is meaningless now.

Isn't it true that some vegetables are genetically modified to produce insecticides? It should be my right as a consumer to know.
 
The OP mentioned the big ones that come to my mind. I agree that most of these aren't exclusively a left-leaning thing (anti-fluoridation, for example, was historically associated with the Red Scare) but a lot of these do hold appeal to the left for a variety of reasons (distrust of authority, belief in the superiority of the "natural") and certainly you can see that in the success of anti-fluoridation campaigns, low vaccination rates in parts of the Bay Area, etc. Other examples like "cleansing" (or the general belief in health problems being caused by "toxins") and gluten-free (not counting Celiac of course) have also been mentioned in this topic.

Anti-vaccine is the one I really hate since you're putting others at risk when you don't vaccinate. Any time I hear someone say that we're "messing with nature" by vaccinating a little part of me dies inside. Anti-fluoridation is similarly infuriating from a public health standpoint but that one's a bit more fringe.
 

DOWN

Banned
Isn't it true that some vegetables are genetically modified to produce insecticides? It should be my right as a consumer to know.

They are natural insecticides. Not some chemical that hurts humans that you get from aerosol cans. It's again, just something to scare people. It's like 'Hey watch out for this scientifically precise and proven beneficial crop science! Isn't crop science neat tho?' but most people will just see it as 'Hey watch out for this-' and people like you make it sound like agricultural science is not science and can't be right. Are you just as skeptical of climate science?
 

Zaptruder

Banned
As someone who has worked in nuclear and wireless industries, there's a lot of ignorance about both. I don't know if they're particularly left-leaning, but the left has just as many misconceptions as the right.

At least with wireless, the misconceptions haven't affected the spread of the technology to any significant degree.

Nuclear ignorance on the other hand has landed us in the worst existential crisis that we'll ever face as a species.
 

ItIsOkBro

Member
I'm not gonna lie, for certain issues, I sometimes feel like the negatives are overlooked in favour of promoting the positives.

In the case of water fluoridation, it would be the chance of developing fluorosis.

6utzDCU.png


You really gotta dig to find that info. You won't find it in the peel fluoridation FAQs.

Of course, usually the positives far outweigh the negatives so I'm not anti-fluoridation.
 
They are natural insecticides. Not some chemical that hurts humans that you get from aerosol cans. It's again, just something to scare people. It's like 'Hey watch out for this scientifically precise and proven beneficial crop science! Isn't crop science neat tho?' but most people will just see it as 'Hey watch out for this-' and people like you make it sound like agricultural science is not science and can't be right. Are you just as skeptical of climate science?

Many gmo crops are used as feed for farm animals that are also injected with genetically engineered hormones. This changes the final products composition that is to be ingested and the host DNA of the animal. We also do not know the effect that some gmo crops could have on other animals or insects. I mean I'm sure pollen from a gmo crop can easily blow into the wild. Could something like what happened to honey bees happen to another insect from gmos?

Never did I say I was against gmos. I'm just skeptical that proper testing isn't done, especially since we know lobbyists pushed gmos through congress and gmos are relatively new, ~20 years old. I'm also skeptical of companies that spend millions on lobbyists.

Let me be clear, I'm not skeptical of the science behind gmos, I'm skeptical of the companies behind it.
 
That would be useless since all of the food we eat has been genetically modified for centuries now

Mmm not exactly. I mean, yes and no. Some forms of genetic modification are not considered natural selective breeding and involve techniques not used until recently like recombinant DNA.
 

DOWN

Banned
Many gmo crops are used as feed for farm animals that are also injected with genetically engineered hormones. This changes the final products composition that is to be ingested and the host DNA of the animal. We also do not know the effect that some gmo crops could have on other animals or insects. I mean I'm sure pollen from a gmo crop can easily blow into the wild. Could something like what happened to honey bees happen to another insect from gmos?

Never did I say I was against gmos. I'm just skeptical that proper testing isn't done, especially since we know lobbyists pushed gmos through congress and gmos are relatively new, ~20 years old. I'm also skeptical of companies that spend millions on lobbyists.

Let me be clear, I'm not skeptical of the science behind gmos, I'm skeptical of the companies behind it.
Nope, hormones aren't used on farm animals in the US markets. Growth hormones are banned by the co-ops, even though there are several legal and safely tested hormones that are allowed by the FDA in cattle (hormones never worked as well on other mass production animals anyway, so they just never became a market for things like chickens and pigs). You fell for the frequent discussions of hormones by those who refuse to trust the science and promote fear of the hormones and now you are spreading it.

Reality is that they havent been used in a long time now. And no, there is no evidence that hormones used on livestock lead to changes in humans that consume them. In fact, there's evidence showing that hormones do not lead to any changes in humans and that is why they are still legal even though they are not used by the farming industry.

And you are coming up with fears for GMOs the contradict the science. GMOs are now decades old, show no changes in the humans consuming them, and passed many of these studies you question. The majority of corn, soy beans, etc. have been GMO crops for years, to little concern from the peer-reviewed studies. GMOs are tested by more than just the industry who develops and sells them. Just like artificial sweeteners, people like you keep saying they don't trust how they got approved, but it's gotten approved over and over thanks to numerous different study organizations.
 

Opiate

Member
Mmm not exactly. I mean, yes and no. Some forms of genetic modification are not considered natural selective breeding and involve techniques not used until recently like recombinant DNA.

There's nothing mystical or magical about recombinant DNA; certainly chimeric properties are less likely to develop spontaneously or quickly, but identical adaptive sequences have been found to originate independently in wildly different species (called convergence, with the most prominent example being identical methods of sonar in dolphins and bats).

In my experience, from here a lot of people then move on to the "I don't have a problem with GMOs, I just don't like Monsanto" approach, which has been gone over multiple times in this thread. I have no idea if that's where you're going, of course.
 

Trokil

Banned
That would be useless since all of the food we eat has been genetically modified for centuries now

There is a difference between a hybrid that can self sustain and a GMO hybrid which only exists while using immense amounts of chemicals.

At the moment not a single GMO crop could self sustain, because they lack the basic survival methods of crop, some of them are actually not even able to reproduce themselves without a lab.

Of course this is all perfectly fine, that we are killing millions of bees while dropping so much chemicals on the GMO crop, that everybody in the western world has some of it in it’s body system. Pee in a jar send it to a lab and the will find some of the good stuff from your god Monsanto, like Roundup. This is all fine, because we need more crop. At the moment we could feed 12 billion people without GMO, if we would not threw away about a third of our food.

Without the big food industry we could give small farmers enough income to reduce world wide poverty by about 70%, but again GMO with only works on big fields with lots of chemicals is a way better answer. We could feed the planet with small organic farmers easly, but your hamburger would be maybe 50 Cents more expensive and of course that’s not worth it.

And everybody who thinks, this whole system is batshit insane, is anti-science and some kind weirdo. Maybe science is a little more complex. But also, why the free market people not let the free market decide and label the GMO food, if people are so much into it and they have such a perfect reputation, why should they not decide. Because maybe people would not support companies like Monsanto? So let’s rather lie.
 

Xe4

Banned
There is a difference between a hybrid that can self sustain and a GMO hybrid which only exists while using immense amounts of chemicals.

At the moment not a single GMO crop could self sustain, because they lack the basic survival methods of crop, some of them are actually not even able to reproduce themselves without a lab.

Of course this is all perfectly fine, that we are killing millions of bees while dropping so much chemicals on the GMO crop, that everybody in the western world has some of it in it’s body system. Pee in a jar send it to a lab and the will find some of the good stuff from your god Monsanto, like Roundup. This is all fine, because we need more crop. At the moment we could feed 12 billion people without GMO, if we would not threw away about a third of our food.

Without the big food industry we could give small farmers enough income to reduce world wide poverty by about 70%, but again GMO with only works on big fields with lots of chemicals is a way better answer. We could feed the planet with small organic farmers easly, but your hamburger would be maybe 50 Cents more expensive and of course that’s not worth it.

And everybody who thinks, this whole system is batshit insane, is anti-science and some kind weirdo. Maybe science is a little more complex. But also, why the free market people not let the free market decide and label the GMO food, if people are so much into it and they have such a perfect reputation, why should they not decide. Because maybe people would not support companies like Monsanto? So let’s rather lie.

You're showing a large level of confusion between GMO's and Pesticides/Chemicals, and on top of that, discussing too many topics to have any sort of coherent argument.

Yes, some GMO's can't reproduce, they are usually made that way, so them "blowing in the wind" won't effect other crops through cross breeding.

No, GMO's don't only work on big fields, they work anywhere, and in more conditions than "non-GMO's" would. That's part of the appeal of them.

No, GMO's don't require chemicals, in fact GMO's are useful for reducing the amount of chemicals sprayed on crops.

The rest of your comments have nothing to with GMO's so I won't respond to them.
 
Ugh, I identify as left-leaning but I had a few dates with a girl who I would describe as a walking naturalistic fallacy. Off the top of my head

  • Contends to know so much about nutrition that she advises her yoga class particpiants on healthy eating, despite having no formal training whatsoever
  • Puts so much stock the astrological sign of her partners that choosing incorrectly on that basis alone would lead to an awful relationship
  • Agrees with parents "right to choose" when it comes to childhood vaccines
  • Talks about unproven stuff like reiki and acupuncture as if it has any merit whatsoever

I will readily admit that I used to buy into all sorts of conspiracy theories, especially regarding nutrition, marijuana, and fluoridation when I was a teenager. Over time I have become very much pro-science. I can't stand positions like these anymore, it's just infuriating.

Yeah, I just can't date someone like that. It just gets too annoying to deal with someone having such a loose grasp on reality.
 
You're showing a large level of confusion between GMO's and Pesticides/Chemicals, and on top of that, discussing too many topics to have any sort of coherent argument.

Yes, some GMO's can't reproduce, they are usually made that way, so them "blowing in the wind" won't effect other crops through cross breeding.

No, GMO's don't only work on big fields, they work anywhere, and in more conditions than "non-GMO's" would. That's part of the appeal of them.

No, GMO's don't require chemicals, in fact GMO's are useful for reducing the amount of chemicals sprayed on crops.

The rest of your comments have nothing to with GMO's so I won't respond to them.
Gmo's probably have more toxins in them when grown in larger fields tho
 
You're both right. Meat is currently economical and convenient and easy, excellent protein. However most of what it offers could eventually be gained from vegetarian sources and vat grown meat. I'd be happy with either of those eventual solutions as long as flavor, texture and nutrition weren't compromised.

I think 300 years from now it will be weird if we're still torturing and killing animals for food.
I've heard it said that when you compare the economic burden of raising animals for slaughter to growing plants for consumption, the difference is ten fold.

I hope the human race eventually stops treating animals as resources.
 

Xe4

Banned
I've heard it said that when you compare the economic burden of raising animals for slaughter to growing plants for consumption, the difference is ten fold.

I hope the human race eventually stops treating animals as resources.

Depends on the animal. For beef, it's even more than that. For pork, its still a lot more, chicken still more, but closer to the same amount. Fish are nearly dead even with plants in the amount of resources they require. Point is, eat more white meat dammit! It's better for you, better for the environment, and just as good if prepared right.

Gmo's probably have more toxins in them when grown in larger fields tho

If by toxins, you mean chemicals, then yes, all plants grown in big fields require more extensive insectiside than those in smaller fields, but the bigger fields output more yield. It's the nature of agribusiness, and unfortunately its what is needed to feed the world at the moment. GMO's can help reduce those toxins, however.
 
Depends on the animal. For beef, it's even more than that. For pork, its still a lot more, chicken still more, but closer to the same amount. Fish are nearly dead even with plants in the amount of resources they require. Point is, eat more white meat dammit! It's better for you, better for the environment, and just as good if prepared right.



If by toxins, you mean chemicals, then yes, all plants grown in big fields require more extensive insectiside than those in smaller fields, but the bigger fields output more yield. It's the nature of agribusiness, and unfortunately its what is needed to feed the world at the moment. GMO's can help reduce those toxins, however.
I was using toxins in the vague pseudoscience sense, heh
 
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