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[Piecake]

Mahad Olad, a high school student, used to be active in “the local social-justice scene” around Minneapolis, Minnesota, attending meetings and leading demonstrations for feminist, LGBT, and anti-racism groups. Then he became disillusioned.

“I genuinely cared about these causes—still do,” he wrote, referencing everything from anti-racism to LGBT rights to reproductive health. “I believed I was doing something noble. At the same time,” he added, “a large part of me was not quite in agreement with some of the views and concepts espoused by social-justice groups. Their pro-censorship tendencies, fixation with intersectionality, and constant uproar over seemingly trivial and innocuous matters like ‘cultural appropriation’ and ‘microaggressions’ went against my civil-libertarian sensibilities.”

“On Twitter,” he wrote, “I discussed how trigger warnings have almost been rendered useless now that they’re used to alert individuals when talking about normal everyday things, like food, cars and animals. And that their use could potentially have adverse effects on academic freedom. I was accused of being outrageously insensitive and apparently made three activist cohorts have traumatic breakdowns.”

“In another tweet,” he added, “I criticized the usual tactic of campus activists to disrupt and heckle controversial speakers and advised them to raise their strong objections during the question and answer session, which lectures usually reserve long hours precisely to debate opponents. This time, the attacks got a little more personal. I was accused of being a ‘respectable negro,’ ‘uncle tom,’ ‘local coon’ and defending university officials to continue to ‘systemically oppress minorities.’”

If social-justice activists on college campuses were committed to respectfully considering the perspectives of individuals from historically marginalized groups, as almost all claim to be, a black immigrant from a relatively poor country would have no reason to worry about being accepted into their communities to fight racism and advance gender equality, even in spite of the well-trod disagreements that have long divided civil libertarians from parts of the social-justice community.

Unfortunately, I think that Mahad Olad is correct to be concerned, and that too many left-wing student groups treat no one as badly as students of color or women who consider themselves to be classical liberals, libertarians, or conservatives, or who merely disagree with the actions of progressive protesters on campus.

Back in college, when I edited student newspapers both at Pomona College, my alma mater, and the Claremont Colleges, a consortium of 5 undergraduate institutions, I was constantly urging people who expressed thoughtful opinions in conversation to contribute to our op-ed pages. On four or five occasions, students of color regretfully declined, saying they didn’t feel able to set forth their opinions publicly without being savaged by a tiny subset of campus activists who, despite their small numbers, managed to chill speech. I always wondered if these students were exaggerating the likely backlash—their ostensibly heretical views were almost always extremely mainstream—until a conservative Asian American woman began writing for The Student Life and I got an education in leftist racist hate mail.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...he-socialjustice-movements-small-tent/479049/

 

[Trokil]

Isn't calling somebody an uncle Tom just as racist as the racism the are allegedly fighting against? It’s pretty much the race traitor equivalent.

And yeah, of course they censor other opinions, a discussion is hard and it’s not that easy to pat yourself all the time on your back, about how righteous you are, if somebody else does not think you deserve it.

 

[siddx]

I've been a life long liberal, proudly standing up for those same issues Mahad mentioned, and doing so longer than most of these college students have been alive. And yet the social justice movement has done more than anything else to push me away from other liberals and make me not want to participate in the community.

 

[Dennis]

“I genuinely cared about these causes—still do,” he wrote, referencing everything from anti-racism to LGBT rights to reproductive health. “I believed I was doing something noble. At the same time,” he added, “a large part of me was not quite in agreement with some of the views and concepts espoused by social-justice groups. Their pro-censorship tendencies, fixation with intersectionality, and constant uproar over seemingly trivial and innocuous matters like ‘cultural appropriation’ and ‘microaggressions’ went against my civil-libertarian sensibilities.”

This rings true.

 

[Kerned]

I've been a life long liberal, proudly standing up for those same issues Mahad mentioned, and doing so longer than most of these college students have been alive. And yet the social justice movement has done more than anything else to push me away from other liberals and make me not want to participate in the community.

I agree completely. I find some of these people frighteningly misguided and narcissistic.

 

[RoninChaos]

Bill Maher tends to rail on this a LOT. And it can be exhausting because a lot of this is basically crying wolf. Eventually people stop paying attention because everything is offensive. And when everything is labeled as offensive then nothing is.

 

[Joni]

Isn't calling somebody an uncle Tom just as racist as the racism the are allegedly fighting against? It’s pretty much the race traitor equivalent.

No, it is probably more racist even. Because they were probably not taking about people that are openly using such racist language.

 

[Johndoey]

People get so enamored with their own moral superiority, fray at the edges, and then lash out at any perceived threat especially if it's someone they figure should support them unconditionally or someone they consider inferior to them. I get it and student activists have done a lot of good, but people at some point need to learn to weather some amount of dissenting opinion (of course not all opinions should be treated as equal and some shouldn't even be fielded) without heading for the nuclear option. A lot of it comes from white kids that still view minorities as children to be lead and defended. I mean the whole glorious white savior thing never really disappeared just morphed a bit.

If you’re a person of color, your disagreements will usually be dismissed as some form of ‘internalized racism,’ ‘internalized sexism,’ or ‘respectability politics,’ among many other activist jargon's thrown at individuals who do not conform the groups views.”

 

[Reishiki]

If you're a person of color, your disagreements will usually be dismissed as some form of 'internalized racism' 'internalized sexism' or 'respectability politics' among many other activist jargon's thrown at individuals who do not conform the groups views.

This shit right here is infuriating

 

[entremet]

Bill Maher tends to rail on this a LOT. And it can be exhausting because a lot of this is basically crying wolf. Eventually people stop paying attention because everything is offensive. And when everything is labeled as offensive then nothing is.

yep.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I've been a life long liberal, proudly standing up for those same issues Mahad mentioned, and doing so longer than most of these college students have been alive. And yet the social justice movement has done more than anything else to push me away from other liberals and make me not want to participate in the community.

Old people becoming conservative isn't anything new.

 

[nynt9]

Old people becoming conservative isn't anything new.

Is that your take-away from this? That your only possible explanation for this phenomenon is what you just posted is pretty endemic of the problem. We can't be wrong, it must be them becoming conservative!

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Is that your take-away from this? That your only possible explanation for this phenomenon is what you just posted is pretty endemic of the problem. We can't be wrong, it must be them becoming conservative!

Did you read the post? It's a 'kids these days' and then the proclamation he is becoming less liberal due to them. I don't participate in any 'social justice movements'. I engage things if they arise about me, but I don't seek them out. I'm not part of any sort of club or group. So I'm uncertain who the 'we' in your post is referring to.

 

[-MB-]

Old people becoming conservative isn't anything new.

This is completely besides the truth. I am still as liberal as they can get at 43, but have grown a bit tired of the overzealousness of some of the behaviours of these types of people. Because I mainly feel their utterly counterproductive to the causes the claim to stand for. You shoudl try to win over the majority of ppl and get them to support the cause, not scare them away because they don't yet 100% agree with the way you see things.

 

[Pizoxuat]

Teenagers and young adults on their own for the first time don't do activism perfectly. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[ElTorro]

“I genuinely cared about these causes—still do,” he wrote, referencing everything from anti-racism to LGBT rights to reproductive health. “I believed I was doing something noble. At the same time,” he added, “a large part of me was not quite in agreement with some of the views and concepts espoused by social-justice groups. Their pro-censorship tendencies, fixation with intersectionality, and constant uproar over seemingly trivial and innocuous matters like ‘cultural appropriation’ and ‘microaggressions’ went against my civil-libertarian sensibilities.”

I can emphasize with this. I feel like many people who are into activism care less about larger topics (the ones that you can read about on the websites of Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch) and more about things like the ones mentioned above.

 

[Kater]

That sounds like people who don't like to lose debates and so they try to discredit him. That's really shitty.

I don't agree on the part where he claims trigger warning get too much. People are very sensitive and pick up on really small things, small things that can throw you off-balance if your mind is already not that stable.

Still, I can respect his decision to leave since the people there who called him those names clearly didn't value him as an equal and part of their community, as part of the fight against what they actually should work at.

 

[Jebusman]

That sounds like people who don't like to lose debates and so they try to discredit him. That's really shitty.

I don't agree on the part where he claims trigger warning get too much. People are very sensitive and pick up on really small things, small things that can throw you off-balance if your mind is already not that stable.

Still, I can respect his decision to leave since the people there who called him those names clearly didn't value him as an equal and part of their community, as part of the fight against what they actually should work at.

Trigger warnings have an actual purpose, yet it has been co-opted as a method to ignore just about anything that is ever even slightly disagreeable with someone.

Anecdotally, I know people like this. Who watching a show, sees something pop up that she doesn't agree with, closes her eyes, throws one hand over them, the other hand out like she's trying to push it away, and yells (not says, YELLS), "TRIGGERED".

Not ironically. Actually meaning it. We have to stop whatever we're watching. It was fucking Adventure Time.

We can't watch Adventure Time without someone being "triggered".

It has gone too far.

 

[Kenshin001]

Did you read the post? It's a 'kids these days' and then the proclamation he is becoming less liberal due to them. I don't participate in any 'social justice movements'. I engage things if they arise about me, but I don't seek them out. I'm not part of any sort of club or group. So I'm uncertain who the 'we' in your post is referring to.

I don't think age has anything to do with it. The article is about a high school student who has also become disillusioned with the extreme left social justice whackjobs.

 

[AlimNassor]

Shitty people exist on both sides, shocker. Still, i don't see why I have to be nice to a guy calling me a sjw or black ppl racial slurs. I'm not jesus, insult me and I'll insult you back.

 

[The Elite]

“I genuinely cared about these causes—still do,” he wrote, referencing everything from anti-racism to LGBT rights to reproductive health. “I believed I was doing something noble. At the same time,” he added, “a large part of me was not quite in agreement with some of the views and concepts espoused by social-justice groups. Their pro-censorship tendencies, fixation with intersectionality, and constant uproar over seemingly trivial and innocuous matters like ‘cultural appropriation’ and ‘microaggressions’ went against my civil-libertarian sensibilities.”

Very well put. Still, it's important to fight for the same causes, even if you disagree on the methods.

Shitty people exist on both sides, shocker. Still, i don't see why I have to be nice to a guy calling me a sjw or black ppl racial slurs. I'm not jesus, insult me and I'll insult you back.

If people actively treat you like shit, you can treat them like shit right back. That's not the problem here.

 

[Kimawolf]

This is what i been talking about. Its a young person thing. They think they are being righteous ( which they may be) but they go about it in such a way that they turn even potential allies on the defense and makes them not want to be bothered.

I dont need too agree with you on every single thing for us to be on the same side. And if i am not as passionate as you about something doesnt mean im not a "real liberal".

 

[Aztechnology]

I can emphasize with this. I feel like many people who are into activism care less about larger topics (the ones that you can read about on the websites of Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch) and more about things like the ones mentioned above.

Where's that article someone linked a few days ago about what essentially amounts to people being more concerned about being "right" or what appears to be right at the surface level over actually being knowledgeable. It was one posted recently about the rise of harassment and mob mentality in younger generations (my generation, Millenials in particular) especially on social media. I kind of feel that article does a good job of illustrating that point.

 

[ElTorro]

Trigger warnings have an actual purpose, yet it has been co-opted as a method to ignore just about anything that is ever even slightly disagreeable with someone.

The first time I heard about trigger warnings was in 2006 or so when I read online forums about self-harming behavior and child abuse. I was supporting a friend back at the time who was struggling with this and wanted to learn more. It's one thing when you hear about that in a context where people are mentally unstable in a clinical way and can become suicidal from one moment to the next. And even then I have always been unsure if such reactions really had been triggered by confrontation with single words or images. Still, it's something that you take seriously.

I do feel too that this concept has been taken overboard. If you are a person that reacts to certain things in the way I mentioned above, then the solution is not to change public places. The solution is for you to seek professional help. Because if you really can't cope with certain words, images, or thoughts, then you are not equipped to live a normal life and need help. Trying to change public places like universities is rather contra-productive, because a university can be a good and safe place to actually put yourself out there again.

 

[Kater]

Trigger warnings have an actual purpose, yet it has been co-opted as a method to ignore just about anything that is ever even slightly disagreeable with someone.

Anecdotally, I know people like this. Who watching a show, sees something pop up that she doesn't agree with, closes her eyes, throws one hand over them, the other hand out like she's trying to push it away, and yells (not says, YELLS), "TRIGGERED".

Not ironically. Actually meaning it. We have to stop whatever we're watching. It was fucking Adventure Time.

We can't watch Adventure Time without someone being "triggered".

It has gone too far.

I mean, it does sound like it would get old rather quick but I don't see how it makes trigger warnings (for violence, scars, that sort of thing) less valid.

 

[teruterubozu]

Trigger warnings? Fuck I'm getting old.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Old people becoming conservative isn't anything new.

Well, he is basically just agreeing to a sentiment being expressed by a high school student. I'm 23 and I relate with it as well. Most of my friends too. I dont think this type of reaction to the pernicious aspects of modern social justice movements is an age thing.

 

[ElTorro]

Where's that article someone linked a few days ago about what essentially amounts to people being more concerned about being "right" or what appears to be right at the surface level over actually being knowledgeable. It was one posted recently about the rise of harassment and mob mentality in younger generations (my generation, Millenials in particular) especially on social media. I kind of feel that article does a good job of illustrating that point.

I sometimes feel that the academic background of strongly held ideological convictions, at least for some people, might when they come in contact with one or the other version of contemporary Critical Theory. Having studied a few classes on philosophy and sociology myself, I often get the impression that people could use a little bit more skepticism at this point. "Grand theories" in the humanities often times originated when somebody sitting in a chair thought a lot and found a way to neatly explain everything. This sounds more dismissive than I actually am, but it is important to realize that such frameworks are just frameworks to help organize your thoughts and develop research questions. They are not explanations of the real world. For that you still need empirical research and fact checks.

Humans naturally like neat and all-encompassing explanations, but these are usually inaccurate or flat out wrong. It's very healthy to approach theoretical structures with the assumption that you might be completely wrong about them. Which is why open discourse is important, even if you have the strong intuition that there is nothing to be gained from listening to certain people with diametrically opposed opinions. But you might be wrong about that too.

 

[thetrin]

Trigger warnings? Fuck I'm getting old.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Johndoey]

Trigger warnings can be really helpful for certain people, who've suffered a significant trauma. Some people have to my mind misused the concept but that's the way of things. Don't throw the baby out with tue bath water and all.

 

[NobleXenon]

Social Justice stuff should have been mostly taken care of twenty years ago, but the 80's, 90's, and 00's was pretty stagnant if not regressive in many social policies. Now EVERYTHING is catching up all at once. I can see why people are having a hard time keeping up.

 

[Ponn]

Did you read the post? It's a 'kids these days' and then the proclamation he is becoming less liberal due to them. I don't participate in any 'social justice movements'. I engage things if they arise about me, but I don't seek them out. I'm not part of any sort of club or group. So I'm uncertain who the 'we' in your post is referring to.

You seemed to have taken it personally and attacked his opinion awfully fast.

I'll go ahead and address the elephant in the room, people arent that stupid about post histories and are probably expecting certain posters to appear in this thread and react accordingly. Wouldnt surprise me if the OP was posted thinking exactly that. It might help to tone down the defensive initial reaction and discuss things instead of going right for the usual GAF snark. Bring discussion back to the forum.

 

[Messofanego]

I can understand why he doesn't care for micro-aggressions or cultural appropriation when seeing what he has seen back in Kenya about reproductive rights and LGBT discrimination.

“In Kenya, he saw the harsh realities faced by women trying to access reproductive health-care services and how the gay and lesbian community is forced to live underground,” the ACLU explained. “While Mahad cares about many social-justice and civil-liberties issues, he is especially drawn to reproductive freedom and LGBT rights because of his experience in Kenya. He has been one of his school's biggest advocates for comprehensive sex education and has helped to organize events at his school to teach students important information about comprehensive safe-sex practices, something that his school does not teach in class.”​

That group sounds sucky if you can't have different views or perspectives and are shouted down. I mean being called "house nigger" or "coconut", jesus. If you're resorting to ad hominem, you've already lost. Just because you're liberal, doesn't put you on some moral high ground where you can berate people based on their character but rather you should mainly focus on content.

 

[Jonbo298]

I don't agree on the part where he claims trigger warning get too much. People are very sensitive and pick up on really small things, small things that can throw you off-balance if your mind is already not that stable.

I had this happen to me years ago. My brain took one (fairly uneventful) event and made it feel like it was obscenely traumatic, to the point that seeing the person casually walking by at work would spiral my depression within seconds. I did not demand my employer change anything or people change because it was "triggering" the depression at the time. I sought professional help, got on the right meds and it's a laughable thing for me now.

Too many nowadays glorify their "triggers" as some fucked up way to feed their narcissism to deny the fact they need professional help. They'd rather demand the world change for them then realize they need to change themselves.

 

[elrechazado]

The faction of the authoritarian left that's anti-liberal in terms of free speech and discourse is pretty creepy and disappointing. Between them and those with the same tactics on the right, the heckler's veto is what reigns supreme these days.

 

[Moppeh]

Social justice is important but it is hard not to feel disillusioned with the movement when there are a fair bit of people using it to spread their own brand of ignorance and superiority, which is what social justice is supposed to be fighting against.

 

[ElTorro]

A main problem, in my opinion, is that in todays media environment most of us process information in already preprocessed and opinionated way. Hardly anyone bothers to find the original sources or read entire books. Still people nurture strong opinions and images about other people and other ideas without showing an appropriate amount of skepticism. On the contrary, the way we consume and produce information and opinions can make it easy to demonstrate unwarranted righteousness. I am not excluding myself, I think it's a natural dynamic. Still it makes it so much more important to be aware of it and create a habit of skepticism.

 

[Somnid]

I think many of the people in these movements do it for the same reason some people get fired up over Trump. It's an outlet for frustration, typically over forces you can't control. The "endgame," is very different but on the individual level I think the feelings are pretty similar. In any case, we've found new tactics to push social agendas like weaponized moral censorship. And while maybe certain ends can be agreed with, it seems more and more often people are agreeing less with certains means once we see how destructive they become. Social dogpiling used to be more funny, now it's pretty serious because we see how it has ruined lives and it's more concerning especially because people who don't share your world view can use it against you.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Am I the only one raising an eyebrow at him apparently putting "intersectionality" on the list of bad SJ concepts?

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Did you read the post? It's a 'kids these days' and then the proclamation he is becoming less liberal due to them. I don't participate in any 'social justice movements'. I engage things if they arise about me, but I don't seek them out. I'm not part of any sort of club or group. So I'm uncertain who the 'we' in your post is referring to.

He said nothing about becoming less liberal.

 

[Riddick]

Trigger warnings can be really helpful for certain people, who've suffered a significant trauma. Some people have to my mind misused the concept but that's the way of things. Don't throw the baby out with tue bath water and all.

Trigger warnings are mostly unscientific bullshit. First of all, psychologists always recommend facing your triggers in order to get over them. Second, triggers always, ALWAYS vary from person to person and aren't specific. It's not as easy as reading about or watching something that happened to you, it usually is specific sounds, or smells or other completely innocent stuff. Dark is a common trigger for example. How to you create a "trigger warning" for dark?

As per usual with postmodernism, they sloppily ripped off a legitimate idea or condition and made a mockery of it by spamming it to promote and enforce their own belief system.

“I genuinely cared about these causes—still do,” he wrote, referencing everything from anti-racism to LGBT rights to reproductive health. “I believed I was doing something noble. At the same time,” he added, “a large part of me was not quite in agreement with some of the views and concepts espoused by social-justice groups. Their pro-censorship tendencies, fixation with intersectionality, and constant uproar over seemingly trivial and innocuous matters like ‘cultural appropriation’ and ‘microaggressions’ went against my civil-libertarian sensibilities.”

Welcome to the club.

 

[SapphiCine]

Am I the only one raising an eyebrow at him apparently putting "intersectionality" on the list of bad SJ concepts?

Nope, me too.

I also a raise an eyebrow at the The Atlantic in general after some of the things they've published.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Is this a Conor Friersdorf article?

.....

Yup. It is.

 

[AbsolutBro]

Did you read the post? It's a 'kids these days' and then the proclamation he is becoming less liberal due to them.

Except that is not what he said. He did not say that he was "becoming less liberal", only that he was being pushed out of the liberal community; that he was no longer actively engaging with them.

 

[Beer Monkey]

The other thing about the movement is all the dudes that are actually in it just to try to get women. At least where I live.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Am I the only one raising an eyebrow at him apparently putting "intersectionality" on the list of bad SJ concepts?

Intersectional identity politics is likely the reason he was accused of harboring internalized racism and called a coon. I can understand why he's not a fan. I'm not for similar reasons.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I agree with so much of what he said. If the goal of social justice movements is to bring about a more enlightened world, constant shrill outrage lacking any sense of proportion because "it's all part of the problem," enshrinement of neuroticism rather than the building of ego integrity, and endless knowing cynical condescension is not the way to bring it about.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Intersectional identity politics is likely the reason he was accused of harboring internalized racism and called a coon. I can understand why he's not a fan. I'm not for similar reasons.

I have absolutely no idea what you just said to me.

 

[Jebusman]

I mean, it does sound like it would get old rather quick but I don't see how it makes trigger warnings (for violence, scars, that sort of thing) less valid.

I don't disagree with the concept of what a trigger warning is, i.e. "Hey guys/gals/etc., we're about to show you something pretty disturbing, so rather than shock you with it out of the blue, we're going to give you a warning first so you can mentally brace yourself".

That's a trigger warning.

Yelling out TRIGGERED every time someone makes your coffee wrong or you see a squirrel and you had a bad experience with squirrels in your life at one point is taking it a step too far. Yelling TRIGGERED rather than even think about beginning to learn how to deal with the problem is taking it a step too far.

Trigger warning are being used as an excuse for people who need professional help, to not get professional help.

 

[teruterubozu]

I don't disagree with the concept of what a trigger warning is, i.e. "Hey guys/gals/etc., we're about to show you something pretty disturbing, so rather than shock you with it out of the blue, we're going to give you a warning first so you can mentally brace yourself".

That's a trigger warning.

Yelling out TRIGGERED every time someone makes your coffee wrong or you see a squirrel and you had a bad experience with squirrels in your life at one point is taking it a step too far. Yelling TRIGGERED rather than even think about beginning to learn how to deal with the problem is taking it a step too far.

Trigger warning are being used as an excuse for people who need professional help, to not get professional help.

Please someone explain this new kiddie "Triggered" word to me. It just means getting angry, right?