Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game

.la1n

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I just finished a soul reaver play through recently, the graphics haven't aged quite so well but all the solid game mechanics are still there. Love it.
 

Mama Robotnik

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I'm glad you guys enjoyed this, I'm developing a mastery of Google to find these buried portfolios and blogs.

Regarding the Sequel vs Reboot vs HD Remakes route, I'd suggest a different direction.

I'd like to see the series return as a distant continuation. This is the route taken by the original Soul Reaver and the new Doctor Who. It preserves canon and nods to it, without being held back by its weight. It could introduce a new entry that is so far into the future, it becomes an entirely new, accessible game, as Soul Reaver was from Blood Omen.

It would be beneficial as (1) the game would be accessible to new audiences, and (2) the major fans of the series focus primarily on the story above all other concerns, and wouldn't lose their investment in the characters.

Perhaps a game set after the fall of Kain's Empire, in which Kain's purification is slowly reversing (or at least stabalising) Nosgoth's collapse. You could even introduce a different playable character (so it would be their game), and return Kain to his NPC role ala Soul Reaver. That's a game I'd like to play.
 

Spike

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Oh, yes, I like that idea. But I still would like them to do an HD collection of the older releases.
 

CamHostage

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Proper props to you Mama Robotnik for a really spectacular dig. I'm not too into the Legacy of Kain series (though it's one of my great gamer regrets that I never bought Soul Reaver even after watching somebody play it and being blown away by the engine,) but this was still a good read.
 

Atolm

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Mama Robotnik said:
I'm glad you guys enjoyed this, I'm developing a mastery of Google to find these buried portfolios and blogs.

Regarding the Sequel vs Reboot vs HD Remakes route, I'd suggest a different direction.

I'd like to see the series return as a distant continuation. This is the route taken by the original Soul Reaver and the new Doctor Who. It preserves canon and nods to it, without being held back by its weight. It could introduce a new entry that is so far into the future, it becomes an entirely new, accessible game, as Soul Reaver was from Blood Omen.

It would be beneficial as (1) the game would be accessible to new audiences, and (2) the major fans of the series focus primarily on the story above all other concerns, and wouldn't lose their investment in the characters.

Perhaps a game set after the fall of Kain's Empire, in which Kain's purification is slowly reversing (or at least stabalising) Nosgoth's collapse. You could even introduce a different playable character (so it would be their game), and return Kain to his NPC role ala Soul Reaver. That's a game I'd like to play.
I agree with you. If they do a new game someday, it will be in the form of a total reboot. Defiance is already too much in the past, and most people didn't play it at all.
 

Melchiah

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Thanks Mama Robotnik for that long and informative post. Now I really wish there was a HD version of the first Soul Reaver, or a new game which portrayed the events between Blood Omen and Soul Reaver; the decline and deformation of the vampire clans and their lords, the mass culling of human settlements, the gradual decay of Nosgoth. Maybe playing as each one of the vampire clan leaders, or one of their servants. One can dream.
 

Tucah

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Feb 27, 2008
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This is pretty cool. If there's one series that I want a revival of, it's Kain.
 
Oct 11, 2007
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What is holding this franchise back from a release exactly? It always did decent sells right, or is it a rights issue?
 

The Antitype

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abstract alien said:
What is holding this franchise back from a release exactly? It always did decent sells right, or is it a rights issue?
Each entry sold less and less, unfortunately. Being released in 2005 didn't help Defiance, which was overlooked in the wave of hype building up for the Xbox 360... just like Oddworld, Psychonauts, Conker, etc.'
 

Data West

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abstract alien said:
What is holding this franchise back from a release exactly? It always did decent sells right, or is it a rights issue?
They didn't sell well as time went on, and CD has been working on Tomb Raider a lot. I've never thought the franchise was dead, though. At least, not the universe. I think they just want it to cool off.

Soul Reaver is one of Crystal Dynamic's highest rated series. I highly doubt they're completely done with it, and Eidos knows it.
 

Atolm

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The Antitype said:
Each entry sold less and less, unfortunately. Being released in 2005 didn't help Defiance, which was overlooked in the wave of hype building up for the Xbox 360... just like Oddworld, Psychonauts, Conker, etc.'
Defiance was released in December 2003.

Crystal Dynamics got his hands tied milking Tomb Raider, but they pay homage to Legacy of Kain often, Kain and Raziel are DLC characters for Lara Croft and the Guardians of Light.
 

VGChampion

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Threads like these are why I still visit NeoGAF. I don't care about news and drama, I love game appreciation. Especially when someone goes the extra 100 miles and finds stuff like this.
 

Fermbiz

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Tried playing the PC version of SR1 a few weeks ago but it doesn't play the cut scenes. Tried googling gthe fix but couldn't get it to work. So now I'm playing the PS1 version via emu at 1080p resolution. Its not prfetty but it works.
 

CoffeeExpress

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Maybe reboot the series from Soul Reaver onwards?

Lets be honest, the story is confusing and bloated. after the events of Soul Reaver with all the time travelling it really starts to confuse me.. when the Wikipedia page isn't too sure what's going on.. It must be a bad sign.

Soul Reaver was the series high point for me, both from solid gameplay and compelling story (that intro!) . I think it also holds the best mass appeal for the general public..
 

Melchiah

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Commanche Raisin Toast said:
i never played any of the blood omen games because i always felt like Kain was the bad guy, and Raziel was the hero, so i bought Soul Reaver 2 instead of Blood Omen 2. :p
That's exactly the reason why I bought Blood Omen 2, and why I liked Kain more. =)
 

J-Rod

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Wow, great post OP. Quality stuff.

I didn't care much for the sequels in either gameplay or story, but the original is one of my all time favorites. It had a great self contained story, and I loved that there were lots of hard to find secrets.
 

truly101

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An HD remake faithful to the original Blood Omen, full map and locations and everything would be God Tier, quite simply. You can't look at Skyrim or The Witcher 2 and say it can't be done.
 

Mama Robotnik

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Fixed the broken images, sorry about that.

BigJiantRobut said:
I've never played any of these games, but I love reading/seeing stuff like this. Do the games hold up well? Is it worth checking them out? What games/platforms do I need to check out?
Blood Omen holds up really well, its kind of a Link to the Past but with Shakespearean-trained voice actors, a brilliant story, massive avoidance of genre cliche, lots of sadism and tons to explore. The PC version is the best to find as it has a clearer resolution and massively improved loading times - alas it has compatability difficulties with more modern versions of windows.

Soul Reaver 1 is great on PC bumped up to high resolution, but the definitive port is the Dreamcast version. As a game it holds up very well with gameplay reminiscent of Metroid.

Soul Reaver 2 looks beautiful and has possibly the most intelligently-delivered time-travel story in all of gaming. Its not quite as freeform as Soul Reaver 1, but by this point you'll be playing for the next twist. Defiance is playable, but your patience for its unique camera system may depend on how invested in the story you have become.

They are collectively the best acted, best written and best presented story in gaming. In my humble opinion, of course.

CoffeeExpress said:
Lets be honest, the story is confusing and bloated. after the events of Soul Reaver with all the time travelling it really starts to confuse me.. when the Wikipedia page isn't too sure what's going on.. It must be a bad sign.
I really disagree. As long as Blood Omen 2 is ignored, the story is a thing of beauty. Its complex and covers some very broad themes, but I'd never describe it as bloated.

Commanche Raisin Toast said:
i never played any of the blood omen games because i always felt like Kain was the bad guy, and Raziel was the hero, so i bought Soul Reaver 2 instead of Blood Omen 2. :p
You made the right choice for the wrong reasons, in true Legacy of Kain style.

lethial said:
Nice find. You really like these games eh?
Most of them yes.
 

ukas

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Every time these threads show up an angel loses his wings. And then I just get sad.
 

Mama Robotnik

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I've now posted this in the two big LOK communities at the Nosgothic Realm and the Eidos Forums. They're agreeing with most of my reasoning in linking the events and art together which is good.

A clarification made (only a minor one) is that in the OP I said that "In Defiance both the Hylden and the Ancients predicted Raziel and Kain's fateful battle at Avernus".

This has been pointed out to be an error in my memory. The Hylden and the Vampires predicted Raziel's existence, but both assumed him to be their champion. They did not predict his battle with Kain, but more the endless battle with himself.

It does however still support the flow of events I have listed. The two ancient races had their own prophecies about a pivotal figure in Nosgoth's future - Raziel. It makes sense that they would have their own prophecies of the other pivotal figure - Kain. We saw the vampires own prophecy regarding him in Legacy of Kain: Defiance - the final "Scion of Balance" prophecy.

The Hylden equivalent to this was not shown. This prophecy, their interpretation of Kain's existence and future, is what I assume to be "The Dark Prophecy".
 
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OP, you've reminded me how much i loved this series.

I was really upset by the ending of defiance. I couldn't stand Kain and to see Raziel end up like that really upset me. Glad to see he would have come back in some form.

Fermbiz said:
This game needs a reboot, same voice actors.
Tony Jay died in 2006 :(. He did the voices of the elder god and zephon.
He also did Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Truly was an amazing actor.
 

Unity2012

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We can only hope that with all the HD remakes and updates coming out lately, these series will be up for a comeback as well.

Soul Reaver and LOK are two of my favorite games of all time. Following Raziel's and Kain's stories was a great journey as a gamer.

I really hope they bring them back from the "Spectral World" into our "Material World" so a new generation of gamers gets to enjoy these fantastic adventures.

Thanks to the OP for sharing a great find.

.
 

rollingstart

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Spike said:
Oh, yes, I like that idea. But I still would like them to do an HD collection of the older releases.
I'd settle for releasing the games on GoG or Steam. At least all of them are on PC except for Blood Omen 2, I think. But I would like an HD/PC port of the Dreamcast's Soul Reaver 1.

The version released on PC (in those old trapezoid boxes) is comparable with the PS1 version.
 

evilernLeGG

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This is one of (if not the) my favorite series of all time. I really liked every game I played, including Defiance.


The only one I missed, however, was Soul Reaver 2. I always meant to get around to it and never did.


Does it still hold up today? I have a BC PS3 that I was thinking of playing it on.
 

Mama Robotnik

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evilernLeGG said:
The only one I missed, however, was Soul Reaver 2. I always meant to get around to it and never did.

Does it still hold up today? I have a BC PS3 that I was thinking of playing it on.
Its among the best written stories in gaming combined with the very best, most graceful voice acting the industry has ever seen. It has a great moody soundtrack, a diverse selection of areas to explore, some good puzzles and is generally a lot of fun to play.

If you are referring to its visuals, its best you decide for yourself:















Personally I think it still looks pretty damn great, mainly thanks to the absolutely fantastic architecture and unusual design work. I'm biased though, of course.
 

Rezbit

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You certainly have a knack, Mama. I would love a new LoK game for this generation. Graet visuals with such high quality voice acting....my god.
 

Melchiah

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Fuck fuck fuck... I played the Silenced Cathedral part of LoK:SR yesterday, and was just about to meet Zephon, when I jumped and never landed. It seems there's a glitch where you can be stuck in an endless fall, which is kinda humorous when you think about the opening cinema of the game. What pisses me off though, is that I hadn't saved since the beginning of Silenced Cathedral, as there's no danger of dying, and now I have to play it all over again. =(

After playing LoK:SR after 12 years, I'm painfully reminded of the parts I hated about the game I loved, namely the platforming. It's just extremely annoying accompanied with the controls and the camera. I'm already dreading the Drowned Abbey, as I remember there being a long and tedious platforming section, where one miss will force you to start again from the beginning. Not my idea of fun.
The other, albeit smaller, thing I dislike, is the one-hit-and-you-lose-the-reaver thing, especially in a couple of those closed sections, where you roll & push the cubes while being constantly attacked by the Zephonim, and there are no weapons to finish them. It's one hit, and back to the spectral realm, another hit, and once again back to the spectral realm. Absolutely infuriating.

On a side note... has anyone else witnessed a problem with the PSN version; when the game is paused long enough, and the controller is powered off, you have to re-set the controller setting from digital to analogue mode when you return to the game.
 

Jangaroo

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Are those screenshots of the Dreamcast version of Soul Reaver? Holy crap Raziel's model looks so good. And I always thought it was weird how the CG in Soul Reaver 1 looks so much better than Blood Omen 2 despite being older.
 

Jangaroo

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Melchiah said:
Soul Reaver 2 on PS2
I seriously have to play through the series again. I've watched my uncle play through Soul Reaver 1 a bunch of times but I never really played much of 2. I should probably correct that.
 

Melchiah

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Jangaroo said:
I seriously have to play through the series again. I've watched my uncle play through Soul Reaver 1 a bunch of times but I never really played much of 2. I should probably correct that.
I only hope Soul Reaver 2 works on the partly backwards compatible EU PS3, as I don't have a working PS2 anymore. If it does, and Defiance as well, I think I'm going to play the Raziel trilogy through.