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[L Thammy]

Alright, that's it. I need to play this series so that I can understand these Mama Robotnik threads. I know some of the games are on GOG, but is that the whole series? Where do I start?

 

[Zero-ELEC]

I think its probably the best way to go for a new AAA game. I hope fans understand that a direct continuation from exactly where Defiance left off is absolutely not financially viable - the story that was going to be Legacy of Kain The Dark Prophecy is never going to come about.

Still, Nosgoth's timeline is incredibly rich. Developers could pick a multitude of settings to start a distant continuation. A few examples:

-A human living in Nosgoth's forgotten history, trying to live his/her life while the god-like Ancients and Hylden battle their soul war. The Elder God senses that the time of the old races is coming to its end, and whispers to the human protagonist ways to accelerate the end of the war.

-Vorador prequel - the adventures of the first human vampire. The era would be a few decades into human rule of Nosgoth, the Pillar Guardians are still trying to understand what it means to rule a world that is recovering from the wars of fallen gods. Enter Vorador, a human turned into a vampire by necessity of the dying Ancients as a way of preserving their bloodline. (Denis Dyack actually expressed an interest in this path about 15 years ago)

-Early Kain Empire era. Play a newly-recruited vampire to one of the clans, as the Vampire Empire is conquering the planet. For some reason, the protagonist is different to the rest of his/her vampire kin, and fights to hold on to their humanity - as Kain himself did in his fledgling incarnation.

-Post Soul Reaver era. Play a human in the post-apocalyptic era in which Nosgoth is on the very edge of collapse. The Hylden are returning, time-travelling Ancients are emerging having followed Kain's timestream, and the Elder God is preparing for a huge Soul buffet - it will consume enough souls to allow it to detach itself from Nosgoth, and be so engorged that it can sustain itself through the long journey between dimensions - to latch onto a newer, fresher world, to begin its parasitism again. You have to stop it.

That's me just throwing ideas out, but I like to think they could all work as distant continuations.



Agreed.

Though I think there is room for Blood Omen / Soul Reaver remaster, to generate interest in the mythos.

This so much.

Heck, Nosgoth is doing stuff with the bolded time period. (Well, actually, it's after Raziel's execution, before his resurrection, but close enough)

Legacy of Kain's lore is so expansive that you can totally make a far-off sequel/interquel/prequel and reintroduce the setting to wider audiences.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I missed this thread when it was first made but... holy shit, the more I learn about Dead Sun, the happier I am that it got cancelled. Completely dodged a bullet there, game would have been possibly even more disappointing than Blood Omen 2.

Can't stand the art either. The Imperial Troopers look like shitty Blizzard knock-offs. SMH

Alright, that's it. I need to play this series so that I can understand these Mama Robotnik threads. I know some of the games are on GOG, but is that the whole series? Where do I start?

The original Blood Omen is available on PSN for about $5.

 

[Savitar]

I began to think Mama Robotnik vanished. As always delivers the goods, we so need a true sequel.

 

[Ouroboros]

Boy I hope SE gets a good team together to either remake the games or create a continuation. This series is very underrated and needs to be brought back into the spotlight where it deserves to be.

Considering games are shifting to be more literature and dialog driven, this series would be perfect for SE to get into that sub-genre of gaming.

 

[Syril]

This so much.

Heck, Nosgoth is doing stuff with the bolded time period. (Well, actually, it's after Raziel's execution, before his resurrection, but close enough)

Legacy of Kain's lore is so expansive that you can totally make a far-off sequel/interquel/prequel and reintroduce the setting to wider audiences.

People were livid when they found out about Nosgoth, but it does have more respect for the established story than Blood Omen 2 did. What's happening with that anyway? It's still listed as Early Access. I guess Rocket League being so popular took them by surprise.

 

[Melkezadek]

People were livid when they found out about Nosgoth, but it does have more respect for the established story than Blood Omen 2 did. What's happening with that anyway? It's still listed as Early Access. I guess Rocket League being so popular took them by surprise.

They just added the Silenced Cathedral as a map. It's pretty dope.

 

[FantasticMrSnake]

I think its probably the best way to go for a new AAA game. I hope fans understand that a direct continuation from exactly where Defiance left off is absolutely not financially viable - the story that was going to be Legacy of Kain The Dark Prophecy is never going to come about.

Why is/was not viable?

 

[Aostia]

still hurts...

 

[Aklamarth]

Why is/was not viable?

Because new players won't be familiar with it. It has to be "new" for everyone.From a marketing perspective you don't do a sequel to a game released 12 years ago.

I would be (very) happy with a proper remake of SoulReaver 1 and 2.

 

[Acosta]

Concept art and renders:

Thanks again Mama, I won't get tired to say how much I love your investigation efforts.

The plot seems misguided at best, but I still wish I had been able to play this, especially seeing this concept art. We need more games trying to to create fantastic and monumental environments.

It's really sad to think we'll never play another Kain game.

 

[Coen]

Why would you okay a sequel to LoK only for it to be that far removed from its source material? That line of reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. Why not order an entirely new IP if you're forcing the developer to stay away from the source material?

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

LoK has the greatest videogame story of any series I've ever played. It was awesome on so many levels. I have always hated that it didn't get an ending but that mooted story would've sucked. Especially in comparison to the unrelenting awesomeness that came before.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Thanks for all the nice comments!

Thank you for being so awesome!

(1) Re-release of Blood Omen, remade as a digital download game for all formats from PSN, XBLA, Steam, iOS, Android, etc. This is the first game in the series, its a 2D overhead zelda-esque game so it shouldn't be anywhere near as expensive as a massive AAA production. Its the foundation of the Legacy of Kain story, and would serve as a vital introduction to modern players as to what the world of Nosgoth is all about.
Certain gameplay elements could be updated of course, such as the cumbersome menu system, the loading times, and perhaps increasing the depth of the combat system.

I would single-handedly kickstart the ever-living hell out of this.

 

[Chev]

Why is/was not viable?

Unless you can create a good jump-in point in the story only previous players already interested in the lore are gonna care, and buy.

Why would you okay a sequel to LoK only for it to be that far removed from its source material? That line of reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. Why not order an entirely new IP if you're forcing the developer to stay away from the source material?

To marketers, names have value. "This has sold before therefore there are people to which we can sell it". That's why you hear lots of talk about IPs, licences, brands, properties instead of just making good games. It's an idea that has some merit, eg I can know brand X is a mark of quality (there was a time where a game just being called Might & Magic meant I could buy it without a doubt. Alas, that was long ago), however those people think the brand has the value, not what it stands for. And to be fair you can sell a lot of crap under a great brand before its value is eroded, the system has some inertia.

 

[archangelmorph]

Series needs:

- HD Remakes of SR1 & 2, and BO2
- Reboot of Defiance (make the gameplay more like SR, e.g. sandbox levels, env puzzles, interesting combat etc...)
- AAA Production of SR3 (Raziel has always been so much more interesting a character than Kain from a gameplay/mechanical standpoint), open-world but retaining the same zelda-esque design of the previous games, the physical vs spirit world dynamic, the complex mechanics of world traversal and combat, the innovative boss designs of SR1, swap the block puzzles for ball puzzles (a la Darksiders 2), add interesting side-quests for world-lore building etc, bring back Amy Hennig...

DO IT

 

[Melkezadek]

Series needs:
- AAA Production of SR3 (Raziel has always been so much more interesting a character than Kain from a gameplay/mechanical standpoint), open-world but retaining the same zelda-esque design of the previous games, the physical vs spirit world dynamic, the complex mechanics of world traversal and combat, the innovative boss designs of SR1, swap the block puzzles for ball puzzles (a la Darksiders 2), add interesting side-quests for world-lore building etc, bring back Amy Hennig...

DO IT

As cool as that sounds, it's just hard to get behind. Raziel's story ended in Defiance. Unless they cover his life as a vampire, there's really nothing left to explore.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I really really want a remake of Blood Omen. That game is pretty rough nowadays but the story is still amazing.

Because new players won't be familiar with it. It has to be "new" for everyone.From a marketing perspective you don't do a sequel to a game released 12 years ago.

I would be (very) happy with a proper remake of SoulReaver 1 and 2.

Especially when the plot and story is as complicated and twisted as LoK's.

Why would you okay a sequel to LoK only for it to be that far removed from its source material? That line of reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. Why not order an entirely new IP if you're forcing the developer to stay away from the source material?

Is it that far? It doesn't sound like it would have been that much more a removal from previous games than Soul Reaver was from Blood Omen.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Thanks for all the nice comments!

Well, you more than deserve then for your continued hard work in game history preservation!

Great ideas about possible continuations, I particularly liked the "Doctor Who" idea, as that kind of slow introduction of elements works very well not only there, but also in its cousin, the "different media adaptation", for example, the way the Marvel Cinematic Universe starts with basically the real world and slowly adds characters and stories in successive movies. On the other hand, f they're going to rerelease the older games, for the love of all that's holy, let them add subtitles for us non-native speakers.

Also, cat avatar high five.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I would single-handedly kickstart the ever-living hell out of this.

You and me both, mate.

Assuming it was made by trustworthy devs of course...

Why would you okay a sequel to LoK only for it to be that far removed from its source material? That line of reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. Why not order an entirely new IP if you're forcing the developer to stay away from the source material?

Kind of reminds me how Alundra 2 ever became a thing. It doesn't feature Alundra (or even mention him by name in some distant legend or whatever) or even an Alundra (the way BoF games feature "a" Ryu or Zelda games have "a" Link), it doesn't feature the same world or re-use tropes, and it plays completely differently.

 

[AesirHod]

I think its probably the best way to go for a new AAA game. I hope fans understand that a direct continuation from exactly where Defiance left off is absolutely not financially viable - the story that was going to be Legacy of Kain The Dark Prophecy is never going to come about.

Still, Nosgoth's timeline is incredibly rich. Developers could pick a multitude of settings to start a distant continuation. A few examples:

-A human living in Nosgoth's forgotten history, trying to live his/her life while the god-like Ancients and Hylden battle their soul war. The Elder God senses that the time of the old races is coming to its end, and whispers to the human protagonist ways to accelerate the end of the war.

-Vorador prequel - the adventures of the first human vampire. The era would be a few decades into human rule of Nosgoth, the Pillar Guardians are still trying to understand what it means to rule a world that is recovering from the wars of fallen gods. Enter Vorador, a human turned into a vampire by necessity of the dying Ancients as a way of preserving their bloodline. (Denis Dyack actually expressed an interest in this path about 15 years ago)

-Early Kain Empire era. Play a newly-recruited vampire to one of the clans, as the Vampire Empire is conquering the planet. For some reason, the protagonist is different to the rest of his/her vampire kin, and fights to hold on to their humanity - as Kain himself did in his fledgling incarnation.

-Post Soul Reaver era. Play a human in the post-apocalyptic era in which Nosgoth is on the very edge of collapse. The Hylden are returning, time-travelling Ancients are emerging having followed Kain's timestream, and the Elder God is preparing for a huge Soul buffet - it will consume enough souls to allow it to detach itself from Nosgoth, and be so engorged that it can sustain itself through the long journey between dimensions - to latch onto a newer, fresher world, to begin its parasitism again. You have to stop it.

That's me just throwing ideas out, but I like to think they could all work as distant continuations.



Agreed.

Though I think there is room for Blood Omen / Soul Reaver remaster, to generate interest in the mythos.

Of the options you gave earlier, I think 4 would be the best way to start to give long time fans the answers they've been waiting for while introducing new ones to the back story.

Much of Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance involved Raziel and to a lesser extent, Kain learning of Nosgoth's past by inspecting the various murals in the forge temples. Also, with the exception of a few critical events; the abyss, sparing Kain and eventually purifying him, Raziel's story is mostly inconsequential to Kain's quest to safe Nosgoth. All of that can be summarised in a few sentences and elaborated upon only as needed.

Something like "It had been foretold that my son Raziel might be the key to changing my fate, but in order for that to happen, I would need to subject him to centuries of torment in the abyss. He emerged bent on revenge and endowed with the means to destroy me. Having lured him across the centuries, he eventually discovered the true author of both our destinies. Unable to escape his own fate to be trapped inside this blade, he conceded to rewrite my own instead. He became the Soul Reaver and in doing so, healed me of the corruption that was poisoning the land and revealed to me the false god who had deceived us all."

Characters like Vorador, Janos and Mortanius lived through the events of the murals, so experiencing them through the eyes of those characters, would go a long way to getting new fans up to speed on those events while at the same time giving old fans a far more detailed account than they could ever get from the murals. If it's in the past, a few of the events of the previous games could be depicted in prophecy as opposed to historical record.

Perhaps we'd even learn information that Kain himself doesn't yet know of and that these characters do.

Restarting an unfinished story that has thousands of years of history to explore only shows a lack of imagination, and obviously using any major character in the series has the option of circling back around to Kain's primary quest eventually.

An option you didn't consider would be something like showing us what Kain was up to in Soul Reaver 1 and 2 while Raziel wasn't around. There could be all kinds of secrets revealed from that perspective.

Another good option would be to have a game as a newly created Lieutenant Raziel. When Raziel was first made a vampire, he had lost all the memories of his past, so he'd be discovering everything about the world around him for the first time just like any newcomers to the series would be, so that's a really good jumping on point.

Another one you didn't consider was a J.J. Abrams / Brian Singer style reboot like Star Trek and X-Men respectively. With all the time travelling that goes on is the series and the new changes to history from the SR2 paradox still playing out, Blood Omen 1 and the events immediately afterwards might have happened very differently. Perhaps the young Kain side of Dark Prophecy could be made into it's own game, with future Kain only making a cameo for now. At least until more of the story is recapped.

EDIT: Sorry, I might have skimmed over a few parts of your post. It looks like some of my points might have been close to what you were already saying.

EDIT: 2: I think the Vorador based game is the one I keep coming back to every time I think about what would be the best way to continue. Since Paul Lukather passed away, I've had J. K. Simmons in mind as a close match for the voice.

 

[Cohonez]

The vampire lord Kain, at some point after the climax of Legacy of Kain: Defiance (the final released single-player game in the franchise), travelled back in time to murder his younger self. The result of this time-travel suicide was the alternate timeline seen in Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun.

I think this plot summary could work in the LoK game, however 2 conditions would need to be set here:
1. Text given by Mama Robotnik would be a myth, a simplified version of real events. And the real events - during game progression - would be unraveled by main characters as different and more 'in-line-with-previous-games'.
2. We assume, that Dead Sun is a distant sequel of Blood Omen. Namely - the ending of Blood Omen, where Kain actually sacrifices himself.

 

[ScrapBrain]

Man, reading this thread just reignited those feelings of playing through SR and SR2 all those years ago. 100% would throw money at a remake of SR1, SR2 and Defiance, even if they weren't packaged together. I will say that all the continuation projects generally don't seem very interesting to me, I think re-introducing people to the series is probably the best avenue at this point since it's been a bazillion years since the last game in the franchise was released