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Leno heading back to late night. Conan given ultimatum.
- Thread starter MojoRisin
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The Stations have every GOD damn right to be mad. Several of the O&O's have spent MILLIONS of dollars going to HD for their news cast (and unlike for many of the CBS O&O's which actually look good - the NBC ones are HORRIBLE unless its from Network Side) and for Leno to bring there advertising money to a CRAWL should have somebody's head rolling over at Burbank.
Now Conan should walk because NBC did this to themselves. But in reality - Leno has too much of an ego and during NBC's Lean Times, he was the only thing keeping butts in there seats. Now that NBC's really struggling and were about to move on, Zucker and Leno didn't want to be the bigger men and let Conan get 18 months to feel his way around. In fact - Conan didn't even get the big names because NBC gave Leno so many chances.
But this is the reason CBS and FOX continues to win the ratings game. FOX has smart Leaders but don't have marketers that believe in the slow burn (it will bite them in the end if that dont change fast) CBS has the best marketers (how you make a 7 year old show into the the number one show - it doesnt happen) but horrible leadership (Les Moonves is a fucking TOOL worse than Zucker.) NBC to beat both need great leadership (Bonnie Hammer HELLO!? SHE IMPROVED!) and Great Marketing to stop the bleeding and keep SNF (which has finally come of age) but this Conan Leno bs is going to ruin them if they dont get Zucker to the Comcast Tower Over in Philly and BOOT HIS ASS OUT!
Now Conan should walk because NBC did this to themselves. But in reality - Leno has too much of an ego and during NBC's Lean Times, he was the only thing keeping butts in there seats. Now that NBC's really struggling and were about to move on, Zucker and Leno didn't want to be the bigger men and let Conan get 18 months to feel his way around. In fact - Conan didn't even get the big names because NBC gave Leno so many chances.
But this is the reason CBS and FOX continues to win the ratings game. FOX has smart Leaders but don't have marketers that believe in the slow burn (it will bite them in the end if that dont change fast) CBS has the best marketers (how you make a 7 year old show into the the number one show - it doesnt happen) but horrible leadership (Les Moonves is a fucking TOOL worse than Zucker.) NBC to beat both need great leadership (Bonnie Hammer HELLO!? SHE IMPROVED!) and Great Marketing to stop the bleeding and keep SNF (which has finally come of age) but this Conan Leno bs is going to ruin them if they dont get Zucker to the Comcast Tower Over in Philly and BOOT HIS ASS OUT!
This isn't about Conan's ratings at all? Why would they move a show that has ratings they are happy with?Tobor said:
Either way, my point is that this isn't Leno's fault. I'm sure he would've been fine staying where he is and out of Conan's way, but he wants a show at night, and NBC is to afraid to let him go to another network, so this is where we are. In the end, everyone gets paid what they're owed.
NBC is being foolish. Have confidence in your man of the future. Let Leno go, and see what happens. You wanna pay a guy $80 mil to host a show? Then show some faith and let him do it.
"Help Conan gets his contract, avoid Leno" game:
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28//ConanContractGame/index.html
I got 12 contracts so far. Difficult game. Leno moves too fast.
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28//ConanContractGame/index.html
I got 12 contracts so far. Difficult game. Leno moves too fast.
Well, then, get rid of him. I guess I should be clear. My beef is with NBC, not Leno. If Leno is killing your news ratings, then get rid of him. You want to keep him? Then put him in his old time slot. In the end, it's an NBC decision, not Leno.numble said:
I can't fault or blame Leno for what's happened just because he wants to do what he loves. I'm sure if it was up to him, he would stay where he is now, or move to another network. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and say that this isn't some game Leno is playing to screw over Conan and feed his own ego. Now, I would agree that Leno should call it quits completely for Conan's sake if money was involved, but Conan's got his contract and his guaranteed pay, so let him do his show.
How could anyone NOT fault Leno for this clusterfuck? He wants to continue doing TV and NBC doesn't want to lose him, so why didn't he take the offer to do a daytime talk show? Why doesn't he take that offer now that his prime time show has failed? Leno's a selfish prick, and Conan's getting screwed by him.
Because he wants to do a Late Night show. It's what he's always done, why change now? In the end, it's NBC's decision.seat said:
In fact, I really don't see how Leno benefits from this. He's having his show cut in half, and moved from PRIME TIME to late night.
And we're making wild speculations here. We don't even know if a daytime show is possible with his contract.
Fun Factor
Formerly FTWer
seat said:
Have you not read anything in this thread.
Conan, being the attention whore that he is
, wanted a contractual guarantee he would host the Tonight Show in a certain amount of years, even though Leno had no plans to retire in that time.Leno, being gracious, bowed out for Conan, but still wanted to continue to work. NBC just offered him the primetime deal so he wouldn't go to another company continuing his Late Night show, which he probably would have.
So in the end, it's all Conan's fault for wanting to cement his stake in the Tonight Show when it wasn't the time.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
FTWer said:Have you not read anything in this thread.
Conan, being the attention whore that he is
Leno, being gracious, bowed out for Conan, but still wanted to continue to work. NBC just offered him the primetime deal so he wouldn't go to another company continuing his Late Night show, which he probably would have.
So in the end, it's all Conan's fault for wanting to cement his stake in the Tonight Show when it wasn't the time.
...
omg
He wouldn't survive in the Daytime talk shows. It's completely different ball game.seat said:
Conan wanted the Tonight Show or else he would walk. NBC pushed an indecisive Leno into agreeing with something he wasn't sure about.
Shit hits the fan with NBC, and Late Night talk was the only thing they still have going. That thing you "agreed" to 5 years ago is now in effect. Conan wants "his" show and Leno wants to continue Late Night. They let go of either, they risk another Letterman and creating a third major rival to late night...the other two stations jumping at the opportunity.
Well, Conan agreed to do "2 years min" similar to how Leno agreed to "Retire"
They decided to bend over to keep Leno. And I'm sure Leno knows this also. So why the fuck not take advantage of it. They are giving you a chance for prime time talk show. No other station can or will offer it. While at the same time that contract that got Conan the Tonight show and kicked Leno out, is also the same one forcing him to stay at it for 2 years at a later time.
Now I'm also taking a guess, there is a clause similar in Leno's contract the same as Conan's. Preventing him from working else where for a bit if he quits out on them.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Conan has had the Tonight Show for less than a year.Blader5489 said:
Rez said:
Holy shit, I had no idea!!
I was just pointing out the double standard of how Conan doing 16 years on Late Night + however long his stint on the Tonight Show will be is fine, but that Leno "needs to let go" after his "very long run" even though he's been on for the same amount of time.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Conan has had the Tonight Show for less than a year.Blader5489 said:
Finally some reason. This is about NBC worried about more late night competition, and trying to keep everyone for better or worse. Leno should probably just step down. Forcing him to 30 minutes is just a slap in the face to him AND Conan. It further lowers conans chances of building his audience, which is what NBC should want since he's the young guyshintoki said:
Problem is the contracts. Leno may not be able to easily step out without losing something (like the ability to go to other networks). NBC should just pay him his shit and let him leave
Speevy said:
Ummm no. Learn your Tonight Show history, Steve Allen was the legendary first host of the tonight show and created the traditions and format that most hosts still use today. Most of his audience is dead now so you don't really hear much about him in general conversation.
Also comedy legend Ernie Kovacks sub hosted the show for a while before Jack Paar took over.
Jack Paar was none too shabby himself doing legendary interviews such as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01tTeOzPuZQ
I AM JOHN!
Banned
If it wasn't the time as you so claim, then NBC should've called his bluff. Tell him to go somewhere else if he really thought he had better options (which wouldn't been a risk considering that CBS probably would have more than gladly taken him to fill in Craig Kilborn's spot on the Late Late Show, but hey). Instead, they got it in writing and are now proceeding to fuck over everyone involved, including the one who deserves the damn show they got. I'm sure this is all going to be lost on you since you obviously are just here to troll Conan, but I can't stop myself!FTWer said:Have you not read anything in this thread.
Conan, being the attention whore that he is
Leno, being gracious, bowed out for Conan, but still wanted to continue to work. NBC just offered him the primetime deal so he wouldn't go to another company continuing his Late Night show, which he probably would have.
So in the end, it's all Conan's fault for wanting to cement his stake in the Tonight Show when it wasn't the time.
Rapping Granny
Banned
Conan needs to come back to writing The Simpsons.
Speevy said:
"The Tonight show was only a coveted spot because Carson did it"
"it was coveted because people were looking for someone to replace Carson"
Two completely different meanings.
The Tonight Show was a coveted spot because of its history as a whole, dating back to 1954.
Speevy said:
I guarantee you that Leno and Letterman, when they fought for the seat, wanted it because of the history of the show and not just because Johnny hosted it JUST before them. Those two grew up on Steve Allen and Jack Paar.
Now Conan having it is amazing, it's like replacing the Statue of Liberty with a symbol from our generation.
Also a random stat report that has little to do with my previous words, just interesting:
No. of episodes ~2,000 (before Carson)
4,531 (under Carson)
3,775 (under Leno)
123 (under O'Brien)
A little over 10,000 episodes of The Tonight Show. WOW.
perfectchaos007
Member
Rapping Granny said:
agreed. He wrote for the simpsons during their golden years. Maybe they should give conan a half hour tonight show to free up time for him to write for the simpsons! best of both worlds! lol
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Fuck this shit. I've been out of the country for over a year and I was really looking forward to watching Conan's take on the Tonight Show when I return to the States next month. I used to love watching Letterman followed by Conan back in the day and have always had a strong dislike of Jay Leno. The guy is completely unfunny and reminds me of beer guzzling rednecks for some reason. The guy is a total scumbag for even accepting this deal and screwing Conan like this. What a worthless asshole.
Oh well, I really hope Conan can find a new gig soon.
edit: after looking at the situation a bit more, this could work out better for my viewing interests so I can enjoy both the Daily Show programs or Letterman and then Conan instead of having them all compete for the same time slot. Leno still sucks, though.
Oh well, I really hope Conan can find a new gig soon.
edit: after looking at the situation a bit more, this could work out better for my viewing interests so I can enjoy both the Daily Show programs or Letterman and then Conan instead of having them all compete for the same time slot. Leno still sucks, though.
CurseoftheGods
Banned
FTWer said:Have you not read anything in this thread.
Conan, being the attention whore that he is
Leno, being gracious, bowed out for Conan, but still wanted to continue to work. NBC just offered him the primetime deal so he wouldn't go to another company continuing his Late Night show, which he probably would have.
So in the end, it's all Conan's fault for wanting to cement his stake in the Tonight Show when it wasn't the time.
Jesus.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
FTWer said:Have you not read anything in this thread.
Conan, being the attention whore that he is
Leno, being gracious, bowed out for Conan, but still wanted to continue to work. NBC just offered him the primetime deal so he wouldn't go to another company continuing his Late Night show, which he probably would have.
So in the end, it's all Conan's fault for wanting to cement his stake in the Tonight Show when it wasn't the time.
Hows William Bell doing?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Number 2 said:
:lol :lol
Epic Reset.
Thread makes me laugh. I love Conan, but he is not an 11:35 act and he has had to bottle a lot of his quirky humor to try and fit in with the demographic they are trying to pull that hour. Better to just put Leno back in that spot, get the ratings back up, and pay Conan to walk away if he won't go back to 12:30.
Beer Monkey
Member
There are WAY TOO MANY late night talk shows.
Woodsy said:
This isn't Conan's fault though. What was obvious to many was not obvious to the network or Cinan when they promised Conan the spot. Now he's the only one that's going to suffer for it.
I think he would have been fine making more and staying in New York. Jay announced his retirement 5 years ago. He was number one back then so there was no reason for NBC to want him out. He made the decision.
The real chain of events goes more like:
- Johnny Carson wanted Letterman, NBC wanted Leno to replace him.
- Leno becomes host, Letterman goes to CBS (Good move since he still makes more than Leno)
- Leno keeps leading in ratings fighting off Letterman, Hall, Magic Johnson, Chevy Chase, etc...
- 5 years ago, he (not NBC) announces his retirement and that Conan would be replacing him.
- He did this because he stated he didn't want the mess that happened with him and Letterman
- 4 years after announcing, he starts having second thoughts
- NBC is more than willing to oblige 2nd thoughts but have things in place with Conan.
- Give him a show in primetime that is indentical in ratings to the late night, thus angering affiliates.
- Leno wants his old job back over being cancelled.
- NBC again is more than willing to oblige.
- Conan is lied to by both Leno & NBC.
Leno thus creates an even bigger mess than the one he started when he replaced Carson :lol !
I think Conan should chill, get his contract paid off, and just take Letterman's spot when he retires- however long that may be.
GitarooMan
Member
Why do you assume CBS would want him?JGS said:
JGS said:
No, I agree that it's not Conan's fault - it's entirely on NBC. NBC had to know that Conan wou;dn't pull Jay's ratings and should have just told him "Sorry, we're breaking the contract, so sue us." That Jay said he was retiring, then didn't want to retire, and now wants his old timeslot back is irrelevant.
It would be like NBC running the Wizard of Oz every year (or whoever runs it) when they do, and getting good solid ratings. Then one year they decide to replace it the The Big Lebowski - it's a damn funny movie but they shouldn't be surprised when it doesn't get the ratings Wizard of Oz got.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
JGS said:
Is there any reason to believe that
1. Conan wants Letterman's spot?
2. Letterman wants to give Conan the spot?
Blader5489 said:
Actually he doesn't really like doing the interviews, so he'll probably enjoy himself more this way. More time for him to work on his cars and do more standup gigs.
John Dunbar said:
Yeah, the impression I get of Letterman is that he wouldn't bring Conan into CBS because it would screw Ferguson over.
John Dunbar said:
1. None:lol. I'm speaking an opinion of what i would like to see. However, I don't see any reason for him to downgrade back to 12:30 on a network that is not that concerned for him.
2. Letterman loves Conan. They're both New Yoprkers and even had each other on their shows. Also, because Letterman actually owns his show, the network would have little to say about it unless they want to cancel the show altogether. However, imo CBS would be crazy not to want Conan over Ferguson or Kimmel.
thefro said:
He hasn't promised Ferguson anything. People are just assuming that he is heir apparent because the assumption was Leno had the prime time slot and Conan inherited the Leno slot which he would be crazy to give up unless forced.
Letterman is a better businessman than even NBC. His hosts that follow him are hired specifically because they are at the 12:30 spot. I think Ferguson would be a good 11:35 hosts although it would definitely be an audience killer. Conan is more likely to retain Letterman's audience while keeping his own.
He could never do that with Leno's audience, at least not without some major personality changes.
Woodsy said:
I think NBC is doing what they do as a greedy corporation that wants to keep making money. They did not want Leno to retire in the first place. They would have let him host Tonight Show until he died. They were doing things based on what Leno wanted. I thought they were actually pretty decent making sure Conan had his shot. They knew he would fail especially since Leno would get the big starts first still. Besides, who's going to be dedicated enough to NBC to watch 3 talk shows?
I would boot Conan too if I could get a beter investment from Leno.
The blame to me is squarely on Leno who could do something honorable/honest like stick to his retirement plans or go ahead and move to Fox (which he even threatened in his monologues) to see how popular he really is.
pedrothelion
Member
I don't think Lettermens shtick is that much different then Conan's and he's had success with it.Woodsy said:
IMO they should have moved the Tonight Show to NYC. Something about Conan in California just doesn't make sense to me. He seems out of place on the west coast..
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