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[CLEEK]

I don't think it's that ridiculous. What's more ridiculous is that the entire PSP/minis PSN catalog doesn't work on Vita. And some games that run in Japan (like Pixeljunk Monsters Deluxe) don't even run on a US Vita.

Digital games are not the same in each region, due to localisation and other things. Its not like the same ROM is available in each regions PSN store.

As such, each region is probably having to QA PSP/Minis themselves before they're included as 'approved' games. Sony being Sony probably means that each region would operate individually from each other, hence the discrepancy of a game working on one region but not another.

 

[Raonak]

it took sony 2 years to fix that clock/battery overlap on the ps3.
It took them 6 years to finally update the browser.

I think it's just a case of sony being sony.

I think they're just building the emulator. since they want a totally new one rather than just copypasting the psp one (for additional support for dual analogs and touchscreens.

 

[Andrefpvs]

I'm sure you could remote play them .

I tried that, and they didn't look too hot. But you can't upscale PS1 games via remote play, and remote play image quality isn't too good to start with.

I'm 99% sure you can't measure how good/bad PS1 games will look while played natively on the Vita using remote play.

So yeah, hopefully Sony will say something about this soon.

 

[Glix]

it took sony 2 years to fix that clock/battery overlap on the ps3.
It took them 6 years to finally update the browser.

I think it's just a case of sony being sony.

I think they're just building the emulator. since they want a totally new one rather than just copypasting the psp one (for additional support for dual analogs and touchscreens.

Then they would release the old one in the meantime, right?

I mean, the web browser is just a placeholder, right? That can't possibly be the real browser, can it? So just have a placeholder emulator.

I think they were also worried about people not buying launch software and just importing their PSone/minis/PSP digitals over waiting for the bombas.

In this down down economy with every public company so sensitive about maximizing profit and growth every quarter and all that...

I just think my ideas sound like very plausible cynicism, much more so than some kind of nut-job conspiracy theory, but maybe I've just had too much xanax today.


EDIT - speaking of remote play... even on my LAN, it looks like someone ran the game through an N64 filter or something. Brutal.

 

[H_Prestige]

I don't know what specific reason they're holding it back, but it probably does have more to do with money than it does with any technical reason. It's probably more likely that Sony has to renegotiate with all the publishers with PSOne titles so they can be distributed on Vita. When most of them were put up on the service, there was probably nothing in the agreement about the Vita, so now they have renegotiate all that shit.

They really need to get this DD shit worked out, and starting thinking ahead more than 6 months. It should've been part of all contracts that they would gain rights to distribute on all current, and future DD platforms a part of Playstation Network for X amount of years or something.

They didn't have to renegotiate anything for psp.

 

[Yuripaw]

They didn't have to renegotiate anything for psp.

Weren't PSone put up for PS3/PSP around the same time? I mean the whole "Riiidddggee racer" thing was at e3 2006 before the PS3 even came out, so I think when PS1 games launched, it had to be close together. they were probably negotiated on the same contract.

 

[Thoraxes]

Only digitally downloaded ISO's. Just the discs don't work.

and they wonder why the hackers go after them so hard, sheesh.

Wait, I can rip my PS2 games to ISOs and play them on it? I have a slim.

Also, discs for PS1 games work (if you were talking about that).

 

[Glix]

Wait, I can rip my PS2 games to ISOs and play them on it? I have a slim.

Also, discs for PS1 games work (if you were talking about that).

No. You can download a straight ISO of God Hand and play it (and PAY for it), but if you try and put your retail copy in, it won't work.

Explain that to me.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Wait, I can rip my PS2 games to ISOs and play them on it? I have a slim.

No, but you can buy PS2 games off PSN and play on PS3.

No. You can download a straight ISO of God Hand and play it (and PAY for it), but if you try and put your retail copy in, it won't work.

Explain that to me.

The PS2 emulator Sony wrote for PS3 doesn't really work with every PS2 game, which is why you can only play the games Sony have run through QA testing. Yeah, it sucks, but that's how it is.

 

[toddhunter]

Never put down to malice what can be explained by incompetence

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Its the precedent. I think they know that they people who already bought them on PS3/PSP are the ones most likely to go out and buy a Vita, therefore they are worried the revenue stream they were counting on from back catalog sales will plummet in the next generation.

I think that's something that Sony know would be counter productive. Sony has invested heavily over the years in first party studios. They want you to buy new games.

The old ones are the cherry on the cake. That customers are happily paying the prices they ask for them I am sure fills them with joy, rather than greed.

I'm not convinced it's anything to do with forcing customers to purchase the games again, though I can see reason enough for people to think that.


Edit: You're point about people buying Vita launch titles instead of using PS1 games is a more likely scenario, granted.

 

[Wario64]

No. You can download a straight ISO of God Hand and play it (and PAY for it), but if you try and put your retail copy in, it won't work.

Explain that to me.

Your PS3 doesn't have backwards comparability. Durr?

 

[CLEEK]

Then they would release the old one in the meantime, right?

Why would they do that? They'd double their work as they'd have to re-QA all the PSP and Mini games again for the new emulator.

Aside from an actual date, Sony have been very forthcoming that PS1 support wouldn't be there at launch, but would come later. They just working on a new emulator, which takes time.

 

[Thoraxes]

No. You can download a straight ISO of God Hand and play it (and PAY for it), but if you try and put your retail copy in, it won't work.

Explain that to me.

No, but you can buy PS2 games off PSN and play on PS3.


The PS2 emulator Sony wrote for PS3 doesn't really work with every PS2 game, which is why you can only play the games Sony have run through QA testing. Yeah, it sucks, but that's how it is.

Oh ok, I knew about that with the limited selection, just thought someone crazy happened recently and they finally allowed me to play all my games on it. ;_;

At least DDS and stuff is coming to it.

Also, that's crazy.

 

[KtSlime]

Why would they do that? They'd double their work as they'd have to re-QA all the PSP and Mini games again for the new emulator.

Aside from an actual date, Sony have been very forthcoming that PS1 support wouldn't be there at launch, but would come later. They just working on a new emulator, which takes time.

Several years?

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Several years?

This is Sony.

 

[H_Prestige]

No. You can download a straight ISO of God Hand and play it (and PAY for it), but if you try and put your retail copy in, it won't work.

Explain that to me.

Maybe they don't want to allow general ps2 disc playback because the emulator they have only covers a portion of the library. While god hand would work, who's to say some other game you try might not freeze, hang, or flat out crash the system. Obviously Sony wouldn't want to give users "features" like that.

I guess they could allow playback of the titles they put on psn, but that would also be a pain in the ass to explain, because there's only a handful of ps2 games up there and then angry people will say "why can I only play such and such ps2 game but not these other ones I have?".

The real bizarre thing with ps2 classics is why Sony changed the save folder. You can't make ps2 virtual memory cards and just copy your saves using a memory card adapter, like with ps2 games on launch ps3's. You have to start from scratch.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

What are you waiting for Sony?

What are you waiting for?

 

[CLEEK]

Several years?

The Vita has been out for a month! Well, three since the Japanese launch. That's a blink in the eye in a platform's feature roadmap.

As for retail PS2 games not working but their digital version do. Commercial reasons are likely, but there is another possible option that the emulator is included with the ROM. And it could even be tweaked for that game. So putting the God Hand DVD into the PS3 wouldn't do anything, as it doesn't have the emulator to run it.

 

[KtSlime]

The Vita has been out for a month! Well, three since the Japanese launch. That's a blink in the eye in a platform's feature roadmap.

I forget, did Sony not know about the Vita until its release in Japan?

 

[BKK]

Maybe they don't want to allow general ps2 disc playback because the emulator they have only covers a portion of the library. While god hand would work, who's to say some other game you try might not freeze, hang, or flat out crash the system.

I guess they could allow playback of the titles they put on psn, but that would also be a pain in the ass to explain, because then angry people will say "why can I play such and such ps2 game but not this one?".

They used to have a list of compatible and non-compatible PS2 games for BC PS3s, so there's really no excuse why they couldn't do the same again. They'd rather sell you the same game again though.

Edit: They even still have that list;

http://us.playstation.com/support/compatiblestatus/index.htm

 

[chaosblade]

Then they would release the old one in the meantime, right?

I mean, the web browser is just a placeholder, right? That can't possibly be the real browser, can it? So just have a placeholder emulator.

I think they were also worried about people not buying launch software and just importing their PSone/minis/PSP digitals over waiting for the bombas.

In this down down economy with every public company so sensitive about maximizing profit and growth every quarter and all that...

I just think my ideas sound like very plausible cynicism, much more so than some kind of nut-job conspiracy theory, but maybe I've just had too much xanax today.


EDIT - speaking of remote play... even on my LAN, it looks like someone ran the game through an N64 filter or something. Brutal.

I think the bolded plays a big part. I bet it's also part of the reason they seem to be so slow at getting "proper" PSP game support. Have they even added any PSP games to the Vita store after that initial 250 or so? It seems like they're arbitrarily waiting since the majority of digital PSP games seem to work fine when transferred from a PS3.

 

[orioto]

What i would love is if they could patch some psp and ps1 games to make them 544p, not redoing anything with the blurry sprites but juste having the 3D full rez, and they would charge you a little more for it, like... 3 euros. And if you already got the game, you just pay those 3 euros to update it.

That would be kind of.. not really a remaster hd, but something in the midle that would bring money to them and joy to us.

Of course that could be done via the emulator for free, but patching the games would be more efficient and justify to pay a little extra.

 

[CLEEK]

I forget, did Sony not know about the Vita until its release in Japan?

I don't understand your point.

Modern hardware devices are not one-off designs. They evolve over time with additional (and removal Linux lol) of features with firmware changes.

These changes don't just happen at random. They aren't a bunch of individuals all working on things in isolation. PS1 support not making the Vita's launch would have been know for a long time to Sony, and internally they probably have a clear date for when it is ready. Just like Sony/MS/Nintendo will all know when the PS4/Xbox3/WiiU will launch.

As I said before, my feeling is that the delay in PS1 support is due to the Vita getting PS Suite compatibility. Once this is ready for Android, it will be ready for Vita too. The PS Suite SDK closed beta started back in November, with a wider beta happening next month.

Sony have stated that PS Suite will be released 'later this year'. That's as close to a day for PS1 support in Vita as they have announced.

No conspiracy, just Glix et al being reactionary dickbags.

 

[KtSlime]

I don't understand your point.

Modern hardware are not one-off designs. They evolve over time with additional (and removal Linux lol) of features with firmware changes.

These changes don't just happen at random. They aren't a bunch of individuals all working on things in isolation. PS1 support not making the Vita's launch would have been know for a long time to Sony, and internally they probably have a clear date for when it is ready. Just like Sony/MS/Nintendo will all know when the PS4/Xbox3/WiiU will launch.

As I said before, my feeling is that the delay in PS1 support is due to the Vita getting PS Suite compatibility. Once this is ready for Android, it will be ready for Vita too. The PS Suite SDK kits were in beta back in November, with a wider beta happening next month.

Sony have stated that PS Suite will be release 'later this year'. That's as close to a day for PS1 support in Vita as they have announced.

No conspiracy, just Glix et al being reactionary dickbags.

My point is that they would have known for a while that they needed to assemble a group to work on the emulator. An emulator that should be a walk in the park for them to write since they have done it a bunch of times and have virtually all the knowledge on the design of the original Playstation, the machine is also more than capable at running an emulator of an 18 year old system coded in a language such as C or C++ and wouldn't need very many processor or platform specific tricks. I also won't take the excuse that the team was busy working on something else, since writing emulators takes a different kind of developer than the kind that were writing the core OS, or one of the other apps they have on the system.

 

[Glix]

Your PS3 doesn't have backwards comparability. Durr?

I thought it was proven that the PS2 classic downloads were just ISO/ROM dumps, no?

I think you're just making a joke but I'm not sure.

 

[bunbun777]

I wish PS3 friends actually saw me online when I was playing my Vita.

This is also interesting. Huge oppurtunity for advertising to existing customers about vita and it is not being used. A waste really. Hopefully both are made available in April.

 

[Glix]

Why would they do that? They'd double their work as they'd have to re-QA all the PSP and Mini games again for the new emulator.

Aside from an actual date, Sony have been very forthcoming that PS1 support wouldn't be there at launch, but would come later. They just working on a new emulator, which takes time.

No. They wouldn't. The Vita can run PSP software. The PSone emulator is PSP software, that they have ALREADY tested and QA'd

Hell, but a "beta" disclaimer on it like Nintendo did for the ambassador games.

 

[Shalashaska161]

I think it's more Sony waiting for PS Suite to be done and all the PSone games will be moved over to that store. So whenever Suite launches, we'll see PSone compatability.

 

[SweetTeddie]

Isn't this just the nature of console makers? They get hardware out before it's completely ready because early adopters are going to buy it. I'd say the Vita had a decent launch, considering that the 3DS launched without the E-shop and didn't get it until months later. Let's hope that they'll get this done soon though.

 

[JWong]

PSP > PS1

They're definitely testing all BC games to ensure they all work before they let people play them.

 

[Glix]

I think that's something that Sony know would be counter productive. Sony has invested heavily over the years in first party studios. They want you to buy new games.

The old ones are the cherry on the cake. That customers are happily paying the prices they ask for them I am sure fills them with joy, rather than greed.

I'm not convinced it's anything to do with forcing customers to purchase the games again, though I can see reason enough for people to think that.


Edit: You're point about people buying Vita launch titles instead of using PS1 games is a more likely scenario, granted.

You do understand how public companies and perceived revenue streams, and shareholders all work, right?

 

[gondwana]

op: get ready for 'migration' fees to transfer your rom/iso licenses to new platforms in the not-too-distant future. either that or console manufacturers will just do away with software bc altogether and have a clean slate with each new system, gradually re-re-releasing their catalog piecemeal. these companies never considered you the rightful owner of their digital content in the first place. you're a glorified renter to them.

 

[Corto]

I am kind of baffled at how badly Sony is dropping the ball with the Vita's digital distribution strategy, especially given how excellent their strategy has been on PS3 and PSP.

The digital distribution of Vita content is great. The DD version of the game even has a small discount compared with the retail version. The Store is well organized and easy to navigate (let's wait to see what happens when there is more content there). The backward compatibility of the device is what is a clusterfuck. The problem is that PSP games are only partially compatible, some officially supported and downloadable directly from the Vita Store, others only on a trail-and- error way installing from a PS3 you know if they play on Vita or not, and others don't even install on Vita. The PSOne games at least you know that they don't play, but the PSP games compatibility is just a mess.

 

[Glix]

op: get ready for 'migration' fees to transfer your rom/iso licenses to new platforms in the not-to-distant future. either that or console manufacturers will just do away with software bc altogether and have a clean slate with each new system, gradually re-re-releasing their catalog piecemeal. these never companies considered you the rightful owner of their digital content in the first place. you're a glorified renter to them.

This is the point when I probably go "Steam-only"

I've already transferred my steam library 4 full times, and then have other installations, like at work, where I only have, like, 5% of my library installed, with no problems whatsoever, and at no cost to me.

I balk at the idea above, although it is totally plausible.

 

[Jarmel]

I don't think it's that ridiculous. What's more ridiculous is that the entire PSP/minis PSN catalog doesn't work on Vita. And some games that run in Japan (like Pixeljunk Monsters Deluxe) don't even run on a US Vita.

That's my point. The fact that all of this seems random points to something else other than technical issues. It's ridiculous that the comparability list looks like someone drew names out of a hat.

 

[yurinka]

Even if the games are emulated, the companies like Square need to license the games again. So they have to find the musicians, companies who did outsourced work, etc who worked in these games and to do a lot of paperwork to release a game again in a new platform.

This is why somethimes they need time to release a PSOne in PSP, a PSP game in Vita, etc. Sometimes the emulator needs some extra work to run the game, to they need extra time to tweak it.

Its obvious they will release PSOne in Vita, and that they will release more PSP games on it. And as happens with the other PSP / Minis / etc games, if you already purchased them in PSP or PS3, you'll have them for free in Vita.

That's my point. The fact that all of this seems random points to something else other than technical issues. It's ridiculous that the comparability list looks like someone drew names out of a hat.

As soon as they tweak / improve the PSP emulator or finish their paperwork (if possible) they will release them.

 

[chickdigger802]

So are psp games going through an emulator on vita or are there psp hardware in there?

 

[DMeisterJ]

The fact that the PSV emulates the PSP and doesn't play PS1 games did make me feel like it's being intentionally held back, and it'd be nice to hear something aside from 'soon' regarding playback.

 

[Corto]

So are psp games going through an emulator on vita or are there psp hardware in there?

Emulator.

 

[btkadams]

I didn't buy my PC just to play classic games, so if anything before 2000 disappeared from my steam library and I was told they are "working on it", I'm sure both myself and the rest of GAF would be totally cool with it!!

*eyeroll*

this seems like a total exaggeration. rollercoaster tycoon 2 is one of my favourite "classic" pc games and it doesn't even run on my windows 7 computer. it also came out in 2002. starcraft/diablo2 don't run on my mac either. actually, any power-pc game won't run on my mac.

 

[SketchTheArtist]

They're testing all of them to make sure the PSN PsOne Classics work but I wouldn't be surprised that they'd hold off an official announcement for E3 just because.

 

[chaosblade]

PSP > PS1

They're definitely testing all BC games to ensure they all work before they let people play them.

I don't know, posts like this leave me skeptical about that. They probably are testing them, but I don't see how something like that could get by.

 

[Agent X]

So I think we all know what the real deal is here. Square (and other companies, and even some of the software arms of SONY intself) are all of a sudden realizing that they are not going to be able to constantly port their back catalog with premium prices. They are realizing that as soon as PSONE goes live on Vita, I have 20 new games to add to my new system, that I am not going to have to pay an additional dime for.

I don't think that's Square Enix's concern at all.

I think that Sony has realized that giving you rights to these games for all of their platforms forever may have been a mistake, but were they to make me rebuy the licences at this point, for my Vita, I think they realize that they would have a major, major, major PR issue on their hands.

You're right, they would have a terrible PR issue--which is why I don't believe this is a contributing factor at all. They do realize that in light of the existence of Steam, iTunes, Kindle, etc., that offering you the licenses "forever" is not a mistake. Rather, it's part of a broader strategy where companies (Valve, Apple, Amazon, etc.) foster consumer loyalty in their digital platforms, thus encouraging continued and repeated business.

With that in mind, I disagree that this delay is due to greed on the part of Sony and/or game publishers. They don't care that you already have 20 PS1 classic games ready to load onto your Vita. The bigger picture is that they would be able to sell PS1 classics to the millions and millions of fans that haven't already purchased them.

Contrary to popular belief, most developers and publishers don't want to create remakes of their old classics. They don't want to break their backs to produce "enhanced" versions of PS1 games. They would love to sell existing PS1 games to consumers over the next 10 years, and over the next 50 years. They require very little effort compared to a new development from the ground up. Once the game is approved and posted on PSN, it's almost entirely pure profit from that point forward.

I don't think companies like Square Enix are deliberately holding Sony back from delivering the PS1 emulation on Vita. On the contrary, they want it out there as soon as possible. They're probably seething that the PS1 emulation isn't ready yet, because if it was ready then they could've sold a lot more Final Fantasy games this week to Vita owners. That's a lot of money on the table, and Square Enix wouldn't even have to lift a finger.

 

[androvsky]

They don't even have all the PSP games working on it, and that's obviously a priority for them. Considering the skills involved overlap like crazy, I'm not surprised PSOne support isn't out yet. Plus, they said soon after the U.S. launch, and anything less than a month might as well be launch window. If it's not part of the April update then it's time to start hitting Sony up for answers.

I'd much rather get Sony to do something about how they're handling PS2 games on slim PS3s for people who already own the discs.

 

[Sohter.Nura]

While I think you are overreacting a little bit, Sony really does have messed up the whole thing with the Vita... for such a great hardware, it seems like every strategy decision after the hardware really wasn't well thought... Oh well Good luck for Sony and their customers, I hope it turns out all right for them.

 

[linkboy]

I really hope they get PS1 games up and running before I deploy.

That long boring plane ride would be a great time to replay FF7 or 9.

 

[SweetTeddie]

So are psp games going through an emulator on vita or are there psp hardware in there?

I remember Sony saying that the Vita has a dedicated Multimedia chip, which is the PSP hardware. I think that's what they're using for PSP games.

 

[CLEEK]

No. They wouldn't. The Vita can run PSP software. The PSone emulator is PSP software, that they have ALREADY tested and QA'd

They would still need to QA PSone games again, as the PSP emulator isn't 100% compatible yet and is still a work in progress. Hence the fact that only a subset of PSP games and Minis are available to buy from a Vita.

 

[Hex]

I think that you are being rather impatient.
It will be here sooner than later, and I am rather sure that it will not just be straight emulation either.
Sony rushes and and bugs appear and everyone breaks out the pitchforks "why did they rush it, damn you Sony you can't do anything right!!"
Sony takes time to do something right "Damn you Sony, you can't do anything right I could have coded emulation by now"