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Lets really talk about the Vita PSONE emulator

btkadams said:
this seems like a total exaggeration. rollercoaster tycoon 2 is one of my favourite "classic" pc games and it doesn't even run on my windows 7 computer. it also came out in 2002. starcraft/diablo2 don't run on my mac either. actually, any power-pc game won't run on my mac.
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Diablo 2 can run on OS X using carbon.

Edit: maybe not on 10.7 actually, I don't have 10.7 installed on my Mac.
 
I hope they get it sorted out soon. It's about the only thing holding me back from running out and buying a VITA right this second.
 
Mattakuevan said:
Something about this terrifies me. Certified PS1 games...

I hope we just have to re-download the new versions and not rebuy these so called certified versions.
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i think if we all had to rebuy, sony would have a seriously large group of pissed off customers. they've sold ps1 games on psn for so long now that people have amassed large collections.
 
Eh, I don't really mind. I've pretty much used up all the interest of playing PS1 games. I just wish Vita could play digital PS2 games, guess we'll have to wait till Vita 2.
 
Raonak said:
I think they're just building the emulator. since they want a totally new one rather than just copypasting the psp one (for additional support for dual analogs and touchscreens.
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If that's the case, might as well add emulated lightgun support. With a touchscreen that's now possible. Elemental Gearbolt could then be re-released for Vita PSOne.
 
Yeah, it's possible that the existing PS1 games wouldn't work... Unlikely, but who knows.

Things like this have happened before (songs downloaded from MS's original music store not working with Zune, forcing you to re-buy from the Zune store etc).

EDIT: re-reading it, the 'Playstation Certified' applies to the device, not the software. It's to ensure specific Android handsets can run PS Suite software. Sony devices will be certified by default.
 
love how this is "rediculous" when it took nintendo months to even have an online store on the 3ds and they only recently implemented patching
 
Glix said:
You do understand how public companies and perceived revenue streams, and shareholders all work, right?
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I'm afraid to say yes. I do.

Sony are pretty aware of their own image of late, and all companies that have customers need to balance ripping people off with keeping them happy. You understand this also I presume.

A company that's name means dirt and customers hate them will not be a company for very long. It has always been this way.

People always suggest it's about the money, but that's only half true. Without an image you make no money.
 
It'd be cool if somehow the Vita PS1 emulator (and updated PS3 PS1 emulator) allow the option to render games at a higher resolution, or other features the PC emulators allow. Probably won't happen, but it'd be cool.

I wonder if it could do quick saving. The one nice thing about 3DS' NES emulation are save states. Or even a pause feature, like the PSP Go or Wii VC had.
 
Glix said:
Yes, absolute statements are stupid and I'm sorry.

Yet, I have not seen one post yet that supplies one. (any other possible reason)
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Is sony going to die next generation? :(. I just got my ps3 :'(.

but in seriousness, I hope it's just time.
 
At this point I think they're simply going to quietly drop it and then later on blame it on "cost cutting" and "lack of interest".
 
I bought Chrono Cross, Klonoa, and a few others specifically because I want to play them on vita. That would really suck if I couldn't play either. Considering the PSP and PS3 cross play abilities I figured there'd be no way they make Vita not work the same way, but damn i guess there is a chance. That would really really suck.

Anyhow anyone remember this tweet:

Downloaded PS one Classics will be compatible with PS Vita soon after launch.
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I wonder what the statute of limitations is when you use the word soon. I can't imagine it'd be any later than E3 in June.
 
thepotatoman said:
I wonder what the statute of limitations is when you use the word soon. I can't imagine it'd be any later than E3 in June.
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There's this chinese buffet by my house that had a grand opening sign up for months before and after they'd opened (before it said "Grand opening soon!" after it just said "Grand Opening!")
 
Glix said:
I don't think there is anyone in the world that could say with a straight face that this has anything to do with any kind of tech limitation, or with the manhours ($$) it would take to accomplish. (We all know the system has a PSP emu, I'm sure the PSone emu could run inside it and still be full speed)

So I think we all know what the real deal is here. Square (and other companies, and even some of the software arms of SONY intself) are all of a sudden realizing that they are not going to be able to constantly port their back catalog with premium prices. They are realizing that as soon as PSONE goes live on Vita, I have 20 new games to add to my new system, that I am not going to have to pay an additional dime for.

I think that Sony has realized that giving you rights to these games for all of their platforms forever may have been a mistake, but were they to make me rebuy the licences at this point, for my Vita, I think they realize that they would have a major, major, major PR issue on their hands.

Also, the lack of certain PSP games that work on Vita, (Valk Chronicles, etc) but aren't available in the store is curious and I can't really figure it out. I guess SEGA really really doesn't want people who have already paid for it on PSP downloading it again on their VITA for free. (I'm aware there is a pain in the ass workaround that requires a PS3, but, c'mon)

ALL OF THIS IS CONJECTURE and opinion. Please, educate me if necessarily.
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All of that was conjecture and opinion? But I thought we all knew what the real deal was? Are you trying to say there is no "we", nor a "real deal"?

To get away from insane conspiracy theories for a minute, both problems are in all likelihood due to the emulators and QA. Saying "it works on the PSP so it should work on the Vita" is great in theory but in reality it's complete rubbish. The Vita will be the fourth system they'll be running their PS1 emulator on (the others being the PS2, PS3 and PSP) and every time they've ported it to a different system new problems have popped up out of nowhere. It's obviously a finicky and long winded process. This is one of the reasons why it takes so long for PS1 Classics to make it onto the store, because they're often patching the emulator to get games working properly on both the PS3 and PSP. Now they've got to do it all over again with the Vita and if you've followed the PSN, you should know that games can easily be held up in QA for months (hi PAL Trine 2).

That you're trying to bring PSP games that DO work on the Vita into this conspiracy theory is hilarious though. The fact that they work at all, regardless of the necessity of a PS3, is enough to refute your point alone. It's absurd. If you're looking for a reason why this has happened, the most logical answer is that they encountered some minor problems in QA and they want them fixed before a proper Vita PSN release.

To be honest though, I'd put most problems down to a rushed launch. There are way too many bugs with the OS, Near and the like to just shrug them off as launch issues.

Glix said:
No. You can download a straight ISO of God Hand and play it (and PAY for it), but if you try and put your retail copy in, it won't work.

Explain that to me.
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If they were straight ISO's, they'd need a virtual memory card to save on. They don't, so they've obviously been changed in some way. I'd bet on them being slightly changed versions that don't rely on the Graphics Synthesizer, as that's what Sony always had trouble emulating.
 
Billychu said:
love how this is "rediculous" when it took nintendo months to even have an online store on the 3ds and they only recently implemented patching
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I'm more interested in your second, hidden point: what is with Internet people and spelling ridiculous incorrectly? I see it all the time. Is this a meme of which I am not aware?
 
LiquidSolid said:
If they were straight ISO's, they'd need a virtual memory card to save on. They don't, so they've obviously been changed in some way. I'd bet on them being slightly changed versions that don't rely on the Graphics Synthesizer, as that's what Sony always had trouble emulating.
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The save files for the PSN PS2 games just happen to be about the size of two memory cards. They're still virtual memory cards, the new emulator just presents them to the PS3 differently. Probably because Sony doesn't want PS2 memory card hacks running on all PS3s (HDLoader actually runs on BC systems). Besides, how would one change a PS2 game, almost certainly without source code access, to somehow not use the GS? If they are going back to the source code, why are they bothering with all the shovelware? Why don't they run better?

Flunkie said:
I'd rather have more compatible PSP games.
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So would Sony and most publishers, which is the most likely reason we don't have PS1 games yet.
 
nckillthegrimace said:
I'm more interested in your second, hidden point: what is with Internet people and spelling ridiculous incorrectly? I see it all the time. Is this a meme of which I am not aware?
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It's probably just a misspelling due to 'phonics'. Many dialects of English de-empthasise the differences between i e and a on the non-stressed syllables and substitute it with an ə. I imagine that there is also a lack of association between ridicule and ridiculous, ridicule being a word that has fallen mostly into disuse in American parlance.
 
My own personal crazy conspiracy theory is that the PSP library being only partially released, then trickled out over time (I guess?), followed by the same thing happening with the PSOne library, is a way to keep the system fresh while we wait for games, as well as a way to give devs a chance to sell some actual Vita games without so much cheap competition. In fact, I'd guess the head start is more about letting the PSP games sell more than the Vita games. They know they're targeting the hardcore crowd with the Vita, many of which value a full experience over topping out the visuals, and the PSP/PSOne libraries are just a tremendous value for what you pay.

*crazy laugh*

Then it also might just be a completely organic clusterfuck as is usually the case with a system launch. I figure it has something to do with PS Suite, and I hope they aren't going to make all the devs re-publish all the existing PSOne games through that, or worse, make us pay for them again.
 
If this were true I think I'd actually demand a refund for all of the PSOne games I bought in preparation for the Vita. This would probably also be the last draw for me with Sony.
 
If they aren't going to do PSone emu any time soon, I wish they'd at least make Remote Play more functional. Maybe it's just me, but I swear Vita Remote Play of PSone games is much worse than PSP.

vireland said:
If that's the case, might as well add emulated lightgun support. With a touchscreen that's now possible. Elemental Gearbolt could then be re-released for Vita PSOne.
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I bet you'd like that, wouldn't you? :P
 
ps2 emulation on euro 60gb consoles was't supersmooth.. I remember they updated it few times. mgs3 didn't work at premiere.

And it was half emulator. I think mos of PSN releases are somewhat reworked to play on emulator that probably would't work with normal dvd releases.

Ofcourse they should be able to create one for strictly dvd releases but that won't get them direct revenue.

As of vita emulator i think they are trying to create better than psp one. FF9 on psp and ps3 has slowdowns and few parts of FF7 are Downright terrrible framerate wise. I played ff7 and ff9 on psone and it didn't have any slowdowns.
 
Raonak said:
I think they're just building the emulator. since they want a totally new one rather than just copypasting the psp one (for additional support for dual analogs and touchscreens.
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Why would they be writing a new emulator to support a few new UI/Input options? Ultimately Sony has been writing PS1 emulators for 7+ years or so (they had one in PS2 Slim, then PS3, then PSP), and I would like to believe that even in a company as fragmented as Sony - there's actually a single shared codebase for this.
 
androvsky said:
The save files for the PSN PS2 games just happen to be about the size of two memory cards. They're still virtual memory cards, the new emulator just presents them to the PS3 differently. Probably because Sony doesn't want PS2 memory card hacks running on all PS3s (HDLoader actually runs on BC systems). Besides, how would one change a PS2 game, almost certainly without source code access, to somehow not use the GS? If they are going back to the source code, why are they bothering with all the shovelware? Why don't they run better?
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Why on earth would they care about PS2 memory card hacks? And if that were true, wouldn't they try to do the same thing with PS1 classics? I just have serious doubts they somehow got around the technical impossibilities of emulating the GS on the PS3's hardware well enough to get VF4 to run at 60fps.

As for the shovelware, well that's simple. They contact publishers informing them what they need to change to get them running and they release whatever is submitted. At which point we can probably credit Mike Kebby with Sega's decent showing (VF4 Evo, Shinobi and... Sonic Heroes, two out of three is pretty good).

Fafalada said:
Why would they be writing a new emulator to support a few new UI/Input options? Ultimately Sony has been writing PS1 emulators for 7+ years or so (they had one in PS2 Slim, then PS3, then PSP), and I would like to believe that even in a company as fragmented as Sony - there's actually a single shared codebase for this.
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Yeah, the idea that they're just coming up with a new emulator from scratch is laughable. They've been using the same emulator since they bought it from Connectix, there's no possible reason why they'd suddenly scrap something they've owned and been modifying for over 10 years now.
 
Every new platform seems to have a pretty bumpy first six month period. Q4 is when the Vita will be a bit more settled.
 
SPE said:
The Vita has been out for a month! Well, three since the Japanese launch. That's a blink in the eye in a platform's feature roadmap.As for retail PS2 games not working but their digital version do. Commercial reasons are likely, but there is another possible option that the emulator is included with the ROM. And it could even be tweaked for that game. So putting the God Hand DVD into the PS3 wouldn't do anything, as it doesn't have the emulator to run it.
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If only Sony had some way of updating the software on the PS3 to include such an emulator. If only.
 
Glix said:
I think that Sony has realized that giving you rights to these games for all of their platforms forever may have been a mistake, but were they to make me rebuy the licences at this point, for my Vita, I think they realize that they would have a major, major, major PR issue on their hands..
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It's not a major PR issue for Nintendo, so why should it be one for Sony?

I don't see 3DS owners up in arms that all of their SNES, NES, N64, etc purchases aren't even available on the 3DS store! Where's the major PR issue there?

But like anti-consumerist GAF says; It's NOT your game. You don't own the rights to it, and you only purchased the right to play the game previously on other hardware. It doesn't autmoatically give you the right to play it on each and every piece of Sony hardware released from now on.

Oh, and welcome to the wonderful world of DD.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if they included some filters and extra emulation options with the PS1 emulator which explains the time taken to put one out. I'm not really convinced that all they're doing is putting in the PSP's PS1 emulator.
 
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy said:
Better hurry the fuck up I got 6 FF games a couple of RE games and some shit waiting on my PS3.

Also none of my Mini's work on the Vita so wtf is up with that shit as well Sony.
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I feel yah, I still wanna finished up my PSX Resident Evil series playthrough =(

Also, as I said before, TRUE analog support with this emulator please, thx
 
ShinUltramanJ said:
I don't see 3DS owners up in arms that all of their SNES, NES, N64, etc purchases aren't even available on the 3DS store! Where's the major PR issue there?
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selective outrage :) ...

ShinUltramanJ said:
But like anti-consumerist GAF says; It's NOT your game. You don't own the rights to it, and you only purchased the right to play the game previously on other hardware. It doesn't autmoatically give you the right to play it on each and every piece of Sony hardware released from now on.

Oh, and welcome to the wonderful world of DD.
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pretty much. & we're still in the early stages of dd. i'm sure it'll only get more 'interesting' :) ...
 
Toki767 said:
It wouldn't surprise me if they included some filters and extra emulation options with the PS1 emulator which explains the time taken to put one out. I'm not really convinced that all they're doing is putting in the PSP's PS1 emulator.
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I hope that is the case. I would like extra filtering and aliasing options.
 
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