• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Let's talk about JRPGs that have good writing quality

I think the first Kingdom Hearts game deserves a lot of credit for mixing Square RPG trappings with classic Disney stories and doing a pretty decent job of it. Not an extraordinary narrative by any means, but given the odd combination, a surprisingly solid one.

Sadly, every single KH game following the first has totally failed, narrative wise. Nomura seems to think that his stupid plots and characters - not the Disney ones - are what make the games popular. The Disney stuff becomes more and more shoehorned into the games as the shitty Organization XIII bullshit takes over.
 
Speaking in relation to other JRPGs, seeing as comparing them (or heck, games in general) to the tales told by cinema or literature is a fruitless affair:

The World Ends With You starts its plot with some hideously cliched angst-ridden characters and generally lame writing. But once Shiki is replaced with Joshua, and the plot switches from 'i hate you! let me live!' to 'Joshua and Neku: Purgatory P.Is!', it becomes one of the most interesting and exciting JRPG scripts of the last 10 years. I love the way the plot doesn't automatically change Neku into an interesting character- instead, it beats him round the head with a large shift in tone, style and interest until he conforms to its new will, with the script spiralling into engaging affairs and intruiging conversations in the process. The character of Joshua- one of the most manipulative and yet strangely loveable personalities I've ever seen in a video game- makes the script for me.
 
Cep said:
Not really. I am not saying they are impressive works of art, but they usually respect the intelligence of the audience.

Also, whether it matters or not is not the issue.

This is a discussion on what is and what is not.
Click to expand...
I guess that's true, I haven't had a good amount of western rpg's. Though the ones I had tend to be too simplistic. Hence less engaging.

ZephyrFate said:
It does when you primarily play RPGs to be immersed in a good story.

Fimbulvetr: At least we've had Planescape: Torment and Dreamfall: The Longest Journey to show that SOME game developers DO care about making a good story, one that is movie-like in its brilliance. Those two alone would make some fantastic films.
Click to expand...
I don't know I've had my fair share of bs stories I enjoyed. Xenogears(disk1) as an example was awesome, but come on a lot of things are just at random(ofcourse that means destiny) and such. With a lot of things that make you go wtf. In the end I still liked it, though I wouldn't call the story quality, it is engaging.
 
LordPhoque said:
So are you guys hating pretty much every story in the JRPG (or WRPG) you play ? I mean do you think that stories in games like Grandia, FFVII, Skies of arcadia, Valkyria Chronicles, etc, are terrible ? Personnally I just cannot play RPG with terrible plot/writing/dialogues (ie. Morrowind/Oblivion, Star Ocean series, etc)
Click to expand...

Gaf doesn't differentiate between good story and good writing with the former being subjective.
 
Himuro said:
Only few, if any games, have gotten it.
Click to expand...

I'd say none have them have got it, but I'd also say I don't care- as you said, it's about gameplay. That said, I still come away from a fair few game stories feeling very much satisfied- it's all about adjustment. When playing a game, I'm in 'game story mode'. When watching a film, or reading a book, I'm in the suitable mode for criticising and interpreting those stories. It's something all gamers need to do.
 
BertramCooper said:
I think the first Kingdom Hearts game deserves a lot of credit for mixing Square RPG trappings with classic Disney stories and doing a pretty decent job of it. Not an extraordinary narrative by any means, but given the odd combination, a surprisingly solid one.

Sadly, every single KH game following the first has totally failed, narrative wise. Nomura seems to think that his stupid plots and characters - not the Disney ones - are what make the games popular. The Disney stuff becomes more and more shoehorned into the games as the shitty Organization XIII bullshit takes over.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. The games are still super fun to play, but yeah, thank god for the skip scene feature.
 
Himuro said:
I'm not saying that a game story hasn't increased enjoyment. I have said that they can be entertaining, especially if they compliment great gameplay. But once again, there's a disparity between entertaining and legitimately good.
Click to expand...

Well, both are subjective. But I agree- 'specially since some gawd-awful stories can be entertaining for that very same reason. See: No More Heroes :P
 
Final Fantasy XII gets my nod for some fantastic writing. Especially in FF XII just about every single NPC has something unique and fascinating to say. Despite what people say about the plot, it is well written as far as style is concerned. I especially enjoyed Cid Kramer's dialogue.

Baten Kaitos Origins. I can't really comment too much as I am not even 1/3 way through the game, but the writing and scenario is fantastic so far. I can't wait to see what happens next and the dialogue is phenomenal. You can tell the writer + translators spent quite a bit of time on every little detail.

This thread also reminds me I really need to play Mother 3 past the first chapter.
 
Himuro said:
III doesn't really have a "save the world" plot, though. It has a "save the continent" plot. In fact, destroying the continent (and in turn, the true runes) probably would have saved the world. So it's seen as a means to an end.

And IV is really bad.
Click to expand...

It might only be a continent, but it still has the same effect to me as an end of the world scenario. Especially in the context of the story, where all of the Suikoden games up to that point had taken place on the same continent. I can see to some why it doesn't break the jRPG cliches as strongly as Suikoden II does.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Suikoden III's story. The three main viewpoints, especially with only one of them being a teenager, helped a lot.
 
Himuro said:
I agree that comparing one medium to the next is fruitless, but I can still have my standards. I know a good book (1984) and I know a good movie (2001), so I know what *my* pre-requisites of a good story is, it's just that they are rarely met when playing videa games.

Because let's be honest. Video games are an interactive medium. Video games are all about player input and having fun. Storytelling isn't and in my opinion, never should be a priority. Because other wise, you're trying to be like other mediums and well...not being video games.

How do you balance a well told, deep narrative with a deep gameplay?

Only few, if any games, have gotten it.
Click to expand...

Damn those movies and books for being the same cause they both put importance on storytelling!

Face it, the reason most games (that try to tell a story) dont have good stories is a) because its a medium still finding it feet, b) most game writers suck and they have few guidelines to follow outside of other mediums (like any new medium), and c) that video games have to be "fun." There are great books and movies that are not fun to read and to watch cause the subject manner is painful and disturbing. Video games should be allowed to take part in this. Obviously the game still has to be playable, but a game like the The Void isnt fun. Despite being very, very good.
 
GhaleonQ said:
Final Fantasy IX's commentary on human life and the Final Fantasy series itself, balanced with an archetypal tale of the "in-game" story, puts it at the top of my list. The writing's quite nice, too, even if the translation didn't capture the fanservice bits.
Click to expand...

win
 
TehOh said:
Two pages and only one mention of Valkyria Chronicles?

I am disappointed.
Click to expand...
You're talking about the game which had a lady give birth to a child while being inside a tank that was engaged in combat, right?
 
Himuro said:
Games stories I like and respect:

- Planescape: Torment
- Deus Ex
- Grand Theft Auto III
- System Shock 2
- Grim Fandango
- Psychonauts
- Vampire: Bloodlines
- Still Life
- The Longest Journey
- Day of the Tentacle
- Silent Hill 1-3
- Suikoden 2/3
- Final Fantasy VI
- Final Fantasy Tactics
- SMT3
- Persona 3/4
- Tactics Ogre
- Vagrant Story
- Killer 7

That's about it.

There are some games I can get invested in due to nostalgia (Final Fantasy 8 is one of these) but for the most part, it's rare (if ever) a game's story or writing ever sways me in any way.
Click to expand...
I've yet to play the bolded games, are they adventure games?

I also thought Killer 7 was mostly pretentious bullshit cobbled together with some atrocious gameplay elements, but asides from that, fantastic list.
 
Because let's be honest. Video games are an interactive medium. Video games are all about player input and having fun. Storytelling isn't and in my opinion, never should be a priority. Because other wise, you're trying to be like other mediums and well...not being video games.

How do you balance a well told, deep narrative with a deep gameplay?

Only few, if any games, have gotten it.
Click to expand...
There's no reason not to try. Video games are a more interactive medium than other forms of media, true, but it's also a fusion of various disciplines including various forms of visual art, writing, cinematics, and music, in addition to the core gameplay structure that makes modern games what they are. Unless you want to go back to the arcade era of gaming?

The fact that it's been done before (namely, Mother 3) shows that it's possible and thus worth exploring.

I really don't get this "Games should be games and not stories" attitude, they can be both with enough effort and competency.
 
My personal favorite JRPG in terms of plot is probably Persona 2: Tsumi (Innocent Sin). Just to give an example of the strength of the writing, it contains the scenario of
having your party members turning out to be childhood friends, pretty much an identical plot point as the one in Final Fantasy VIII. Yet when it occurs in Tsumi, not only is it a satisfying and emotional moment, but how you were able to forget your past acquaintances is also explained in a much more satisfactory manner (none of that Guardian Force induced amnesia crap, thinking you ganged up and murdered your much beloved older sister figure certainly has them all traumatized enough to want to forget and overlook the obvious).

It's really a shame that only Eternal Punishment got localized, and poorly at that. It's sort of the weaker entry of the two in terms of plot, and capitalizes a lot on the mood, setting and relationships introduced in the first game. The ending for one of the main characters was also a bit odd.
Where the hell is "Other Side" Tatsuya going?!
 
HK-47 said:
Damn those movies and books for being the same cause they both put importance on storytelling!

Face it, the reason most games (that try to tell a story) dont have good stories is a) because its a medium still finding it feet, b) most game writers suck and they have few guidelines to follow outside of other mediums (like any new medium), and c) that video games have to be "fun." There are great books and movies that are not fun to read and to watch cause the subject manner is painful and disturbing. Video games should be allowed to take part in this. Obviously the game still has to be playable, but a game like the The Void isnt fun. Despite being very, very good.
Click to expand...

I really do not think that VG are well suited for an experience that is not 'fun.'

The problem is that unlike the passive book/film, games are extremely interactive and thus really on things that the player wants to do are ever allowed.

I mean really, 'Crime and Punishment' is my favorite novel of all time, but it is not fun(unless you derive pleasure from intellectual stimulation, like I do) and I cannot for the life of me see how turning it into a game would get me to play it more than an hour.

Dresden said:
I've yet to play the bolded games, are they adventure games?

I also thought Killer 7 was mostly pretentious bullshit cobbled together with some atrocious gameplay elements, but asides from that, fantastic list.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what it is. But in this industry, effort should a least be recognized. Besides I think that was supposed to be an 'imo' kind of list.
 
FFXII felt pretty authentic to me, it had me taking an interest in many of the characters.

The story itself was poorly realized though.
 
Himuro said:
I don't think that.

But I really doubt games will ever be more than that either.
Click to expand...
I disagree, consider how far the industry has come in terms of graphical advancement. The reason for this is the availability of new technology and the demand for more fidelity in games. But eventually, this method of "MOAR POLYGONS" is going to hit a ceiling where it no longer makes much of a difference in terms of marketability how good your game looks. We're already seeing hints of that with the slower console life cycles. Right now the industry is shifting toward alternate methods of gameplay, motion control and stuff but that's going to get old too. If companies like Bioware who use their writing as a selling point become profitable, the rest of the industry will realize that quality of writing can also be a selling point. Generally speaking, writing in games is still virgin territory so wherever there's opportunity you can bet your ass someone is going to go after it.
 
cosmicblizzard said:
How is The Longest Jounrey by the way? The janitor at my college gave me an Xbox for some reason and I have no games to play on it so I thought I would look into that.
Click to expand...

Good if you are into that sort of thing (not killing dudes).
 
Wouldn't what we are calling "good writing" be better defined as "good storytelling"?

Anyway, I don't really get GAF's LOVE for Mother 3 and FF Tactics' narratives. Or rather, I do get why they love them... I just can't bring myself to share their intense adoration and unashamed, absolute praise. Tactics' uninteresting plotting and rather bland characterization are pretty forgettable, they just come across as good thanks to the great localization and the very well-crafted setting. Mother 3 has great ideas and some very, very nice scenes, but I don't really buy the story beyond what pertains to Flint, Lucas and Claus.
 
It's quite fruitless to look for "deep" and "meaningful" stories in games (especially commercial ones), as they're mostly supposed to entertain the highest number of people possible, similar to commercial movies, but they're also more aimed at adolescents (or people who're at that level intellectually), and this precludes them from going more than skin-deep into any issue. That they often like to deal with "deep" issues like "free will" and "destiny" doesn't really mean much. The best they can do is to give you an enjoyable story, imo...the bigger problem is that often they can't even do that :-/ This will probably change once making games becomes less technology-focused and more simple and available to much more people, but so far, the attempts to tell a "deep" story (I'm not going to list people's favourite games here though :-) ) mostly come through as forced and clumsy imo.

Thing is, "deep" stuff isn't simple. There are only a few "philosophical" questions that are both simple and enjoyable, and the really great stuff actually needs a lot of knowledge and experience. You simply don't have that with videogames atm.

It's similar with personal drama or politics and social stuff imo, except a bit worse :-/
 
Ah there's so much to say about what makes JRPGs good games, but generally it isn't going to be the writing. Games these days are the product of more than one mind and writing is an art that is best done solo. It's not just JRPGs, but they're certainly more willing to come out and show that visual aspects take precedence. Bad translations can also put a damper on what is otherwise a great story or idea.

Valkyrie profile is a game full of short stories about the different characters. Some of them are written pretty well and add largely to the game's greatly depicted morose theme and setting.

I like unique/intelligent writing and sadly it's lacking in most JRPGs. I like them for a whole laundry list of other reasons, but writing generally isn't one of them. I just think of examples like in the Elder Scrolls games where you get to read the volumes of The Real Barenziah. The reading is completely optional, but if you actually appreciate good writing in games then you'll read it and it makes the game better. It doesn't matter that when Bethesda decided to put her in one of the Morrowind expansions that she was just another robot dark elf person that says "NOW YOU DIE!" when you attack her. She had all that good writing to back up her character so that stuff could be excused.

Anyways I love all games :D, but JRPGs and writing is usually just ughhh
 
Himuro said:
Suikoden 3 - Most rpg plots tell the story through one groups eyes. Suikoden 3 tells the story through four: the Zexans who live to the west, the Grasslanders who are war with the Zexans to the East, the neutral party who's journey somehow gets intertwined with the two other groups, and a final party - the villain. You can choose between three characters, the fourth is unlocked after you get all characters and beat the game. Each character has 3 chapters which serve as a prologue before the 4th chapter, when the story truly begins. This allows to show the conflict from a completely different perspective. Early in the game, Chris, the main character of the Zexen side ends up killing the best friend of the Hugo (main character of the Grasslander side). The Zexens raided a Grasslander town where the a portion of the main characters are and burned the town to the ground.

When you play as Hugo during this section of the game, it's easy to sympathize for his friend. They killed their people, burned their village down, and were causing frenzy after signing a supposed truce. So his friend was angry and tried to swipe down Chris, and failing.

Whereas, on Chris' side of the conflict you are shown a child mad rushing her with no parly. He just wants blood lust, so she defends herself.

The player is given reason to sympathize for both sides, and the story does this pretty damn well for the most part, and keeps things more human and less black and white/good and evil. That said this type of story-telling can also be seen as a curse, as it forces you to revisit certain areas multiple times with different characters to see different outcomes to the same situation, but the game does this well enough on its own to the point where it's not annoying.

It's one of the few rpgs or games period that I have played that actually took one central conflict and gave it different viewpoints. It gave each character their own role in the story, and showed the war has no good or evil. It's just people fighting for what they believe in.
Click to expand...

*Salutes*

This along with Valkyrie Profile 1 are among my favorites. VP 2 would of been included but it suffered in some areas.
 
7Th said:
Wouldn't what we are calling "good writing" be better defined as "good storytelling"?

Anyway, I don't really get GAF's LOVE for Mother 3 and FF Tactics' narratives. Or rather, I do get why they love them... I just can't bring myself to share their intense adoration and unashamed, absolute praise. Tactics' uninteresting plotting and rather bland characterization are pretty forgettable, they just come across as good thanks to the great localization and the very well-crafted setting. Mother 3 has great ideas and some very, very nice scenes, but I don't really buy the story beyond what pertains to Flint, Lucas and Claus.
Click to expand...

I saw that stealth edit, you goof.
 
Seda said:
Xenosaga, but only the URTV plot arc (Rubedo/Gaignun/Albedo/Yuriev).

Shion/KOS-MOS/Kevin/Wilheim story was meh.

(I actually really like Xeonsaga II plotwise, because it almost completely ignores Shion and KOS-MOS, although the game is heavily panned)
Click to expand...


Yeah, but they did an excellant job tying up all teh loose ends in Xenosaga III. That's shy I give it and A+ for teh series as a whole. I mean I had great CG, but too long at times and the story line left a lot open, II streamlined the story, but the game play ended at like 35 or so hours and left even more open, and finally III took the story and characters full circle so you could fully understand were everyone came from and where they were going. Epic storywriting, epic character progression, and epic Cinema for sure...
 
Cornbread78 said:
Yeah, but they did an excellant job tying up all teh loose ends in Xenosaga III. That's shy I give it and A+ for teh series as a whole. I mean I had great CG, but too long at times and the story line left a lot open, II streamlined the story, but the game play ended at like 35 or so hours and left even more open, and finally III took the story and characters full circle so you could fully understand were everyone came from and where they were going. Epic storywriting, epic character progression, and epic Cinema for sure...
Click to expand...

Yeah, all within like 10 minutes of each other. I like Xenosaga's plot and writing but the pacing and rapid fire revelations really made it lose some impact for me.

Himuro said:
The first TLJ is on pc. Dreamfall is a sequel.
Click to expand...

Ah. I got confused. Well, I'll still look into both. Zephyrfate was really praising the sequel.
 
readleeb said:
Ah there's so much to say about what makes JRPGs good games, but generally it isn't going to be the writing. Games these days are the product of more than one mind and writing is an art that is best done solo. It's not just JRPGs, but they're certainly more willing to come out and show that visual aspects take precedence. Bad translations can also put a damper on what is otherwise a great story or idea.

Valkyrie profile is a game full of short stories about the different characters. Some of them are written pretty well and add largely to the game's greatly depicted morose theme and setting.

I like unique/intelligent writing and sadly it's lacking in most JRPGs. I like them for a whole laundry list of other reasons, but writing generally isn't one of them. I just think of examples like in the Elder Scrolls games where you get to read the volumes of The Real Barenziah. The reading is completely optional, but if you actually appreciate good writing in games then you'll read it and it makes the game better. It doesn't matter that when Bethesda decided to put her in one of the Morrowind expansions that she was just another robot dark elf person that says "NOW YOU DIE!" when you attack her. She had all that good writing to back up her character so that stuff could be excused.

Anyways I love all games :D, but JRPGs and writing is usually just ughhh
Click to expand...

Its a lot easier to write decent fluff rather than writing a decent plot and dialogue.
 
HK-47 said:
Its a lot easier to write decent fluff rather than writing a decent plot and dialogue.
Click to expand...

Yeah, lore is always easier to write than an active story.

Good example of this: Bioshock.

Lore is pretty good, but the plot is 'meh' at best.
 
cartman414 said:
A Draco In Leather Pants argument if there ever was one.
Click to expand...

lol wut? You kinda have to be a villian for that to apply. She more of a Jerkass Lady of War.

Plus saying she's the best character doesnt make her a good person. Albedo is the best acted and most interesting character in Xenosaga, but he's still a psychopathic murderer and rapist.
 
cosmicblizzard said:
Yeah, all within like 10 minutes of each other. I like Xenosaga's plot and writing but the pacing and rapid fire revelations really made it lose some impact for me.
Click to expand...


True, they could have spread it out more through the story, but they made it fit well in the context and progression of the story. Shows how intertwined each character was to the main plot of the story.
 
Any JRPG with Victor Ireland. Duh.

mkr_wd_translation_7.jpeg

mkr_wd_translation_12.jpeg

head_rider2.jpg
 
HK-47 said:
lol wut? You kinda have to be a villian for that to apply. She more of a Jerkass Lady of War.

Plus saying she's the best character doesnt make her a good person. Albedo is the best acted and most interesting character in Xenosaga, but he's still a psychopathic murderer and rapist.
Click to expand...

No, a DILP is a character whose flaws and contemptuous acts are handwaved, regardless of whether the character is a hero or a villain. (Rightfully, the hero would receive a What the Hell Hero.)
 
Himuro said:
Because graphics importance is slowing down does not mean games will have artistic merit or relevance aside from (very) few in the coming years.

I'm pretty positive, and this is me being a skeptic here, that games will eventually go the way of comic books. I highly doubt that few will ever consider games for emotional stories outside of nerds, like people do books, for example.
Click to expand...

If games had as much good writing as comics, I'd be a happier person. Just because the mainstream has a warped view of a medium doesnt make it less valid. Also I dont get the games will go the way of comics thing...unless you think there will be a Great Video Game Scare like there was for comics, which hurt the medium's development tremendously.
 
cosmicblizzard said:
Yeah, all within like 10 minutes of each other. I like Xenosaga's plot and writing but the pacing and rapid fire revelations really made it lose some impact for me.
Click to expand...

That and the shear ridiculousness of the
KOS-MOS = Mary Magdalene
reveal. Though I think the insanity of that just made me love the game even more.
 
You know, I've played games with stories that have captivated me but their translations were less than stellar (Xenogears, Phantasy Star 2 for example) - I guess the awkward translations made me fill in the blanks much more. But as far as translation quality, lately I'll have to give the nod to Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume. Really excellent writing, reflected the feudal and morose nature of the game world, I believe it was Alexander O Smith as well.
 
Cep said:
Yeah, lore is always easier to write than an active story.

Good example of this: Bioshock.

Lore is pretty good, but the plot is 'meh' at best.
Click to expand...

No the atmosphere is amazing. The story is ok, audio logs included.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Let's talk about game mods
44
2K
Jesb replied
Let's talk about a "Switch 2 Max" Console
2 3
123
3K
Mozza replied
  • Poll
Two fundemental truths about Live Service multi-player games that people aren't talking about...
2 3
120
521
Men_in_Boxes replied
There’s a problem with video game pricing that no one is talking about
2
72
903
Heimdall_Xtreme replied
Playground games founder talks about fable. He confirms there's no good or evil and that character morphing doesn't exist in the game. Also no dog.
News  3 4 5 6 7
320
4K
mckmas8808 replied
Top Bottom