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[Amir0x]

Wow.

High praise for The Witcher, eh Evilore!?

 

[MechaX]

There are definitely better ones. It's just the majority of the interesting ones don't get translated. Since the female demographic is surprisingly big and the majority of guys tend to like the manga aimed at teens.

Case holds true with anime as well.

That's cool, but could you or 7TH list a few examples?

 

[TheFightingFish]

I've always though that in my years of playing JRPGS (now mostly past) the real strength in them was the world creation as opposed to writing quality. The visual design and originality of worlds like Spira, Midgar or Algo still impresses me to this day, especially when compared to many of the cookie cutter Tolkin++ or Star Wars++ games that I run into. I always felt that it was a bit of a shame that the dialog and plots never seemed to live up to the high standards of the game universes. I'd blame my own hyperactive imagination as a kid with helping to fill in my own plots and characters when the actual game let me down in that regard.

I do wonder sometimes how much just plain old cultural differences affects my perception of JRPG stories. I like watching Miyazaki movies but I'm always struck multiple times during them by moments that just seem odd, jokes that fall flat, pathos that seems more comedy and cringe worth dialog. Good localization helps, but I have to imagine that cultural differences will always inhibit JRPG stories really striking home with me.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

You're excluding all of the various writers for the SMT series like Kaneko and Okada.

I'm a heretic for saying this... but they're better than Matsuno.

:X :X :X :X

Well I was generalizing more within the borders of Square Enix.

 

[7Th]

That's cool, but could you or 7TH list a few examples?

Of good Japanese comics and cartoons in general?

 

[MechaX]

Of good Japanese comics and cartoons in general?

Hey, you're the one who said that the things in Persona 3/4 have been done better in manga and anime, implying that there might have been a few series with similar themes to P3/4 or did certain plot elements better. Am I just supposed to take you and 2San's word that there is surely some anime/manga that may or may not do certain undisclosed things better or was that just a sarcastic knock against P3/4 in a "Well, these games are worse than anime/manga" kind of way?

 

[tetrisgrammaton]

I don't see how evolving, realistic characters nor engaging plots are essential to good writing.

It's more about narrative style and direction.

 

[Freshmaker]

Dude, that site is amazing. But Primal Rage really isn't any better than "Mortal Kombat with dinosaurs and gorillas."

It does have the most annoying control scheme possible. That sets it apart.

 

[7Th]

Hey, you're the one who said that the things in Persona 3/4 have been done better in manga and anime, implying that there might have been a few series with similar themes to P3/4 or did certain plot elements better. Am I just supposed to take you and 2San's word that there is surely some anime/manga that may or may not do certain undisclosed things better?

Well, what there isn't a single Japanese comic or cartoon that single-handedly features ALL of the tropes featured by P3/P4. That isn't what I said. I was talking about character arcs having tons and tons of parallels in different, better established media. I mean, you really can't expect Persona to be the-end-of-it-all when it comes to girls that dress like boys to match certain societal expectations, teenagers that deep within have some sort of jealous grudge against their best friend and sexually confused young men.

Do you know Utena? I think Yoji Enokido could do a pretty decent script for a moderately psychological, super-stylish character-driven game like Persona.

 

[2San]

That's cool, but could you or 7TH list a few examples?

Sure, but I have to say psychological manga don't fit my taste most of the time. I don't know good ones where the character are actually in their teens like persona.

Just to name a few thriller psychological manga that are set in modern times. Monster and 20th Century Boys(ending is bad, but the trip is well worth it) are definitely interesting. Bokurano looks like an interesting option, haven't read this one myself, but got recommended to me. It got 15 y/o as main characters though, but that makes "the events" that much more shocking.

The Ravages of Time is an awesome series might remind you of the fantasy jrpg setting, actually done right. Sadly the translation is pretty bad, series well worth reading.

For a coming of age story Oyasumi Punpun - is definitely awesome it's lighthearted in a sense but deals with dark themes like abusive parents, divorce, etc(some real fucked up things happens every now and then).

If you like gangster stories - Sanctuary is the best by far. It deals with 2 guys working together to change Japan. While one takes the political route while the other joins the mob.

If you want a laid back short story, but high quality work go for Haruka na Machi e.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Wow.

I was referring to the fact that while The Witcher didn't do too much new to the genre it really tied things that were already established very well while presenting itself with a unique tone.

I personally felt the same with Skies of Arcadia.

 

[RedSwirl]

Grandia II. The setting and overall story may be generic as hell, but it was saved by some damn good localization and English voice acting.

 

[soldat7]

Lost Odyssey: The short stories in the Thousand Year Dreams are good. The rest of the game's writing isn't really.

The short stories were so good, they felt out of place. I wanted a game designed around those instead.

 

[flyover]

Truth be told, there are a lot of JRPGs with great writing, but the translations simply don't do them any justice.

I've often worried that that's the case.

Some game companies should have two localization teams: one that translates from Japanese to English, and another that translates from English into good English.

 

[Fredescu]

Except Skies of Arcadia is awesome purely for its world.

The Witcher's world feels a lot more alive than any Bioware game of compartmentalised locations or Bethesda games of drab empty spaces.

 

[ZephyrFate]

The Witcher's world feels a lot more alive than any Bioware game of compartmentalised locations or Bethesda games of drab empty spaces.

Oh I definitely agree. I have rarely come across a world so alive and involving as The Witcher.

 

[K.Sabot]

I teared up when OP mentioned Anachronox.

 

[ProudClod]

Nocturne has the best writing of any JRPG ever. But that's only because there are like no character interactions, and it's not trying to shove a love story down your throat.

 

[water_wendi]

Nocturne has the best writing of any JRPG ever. But that's only because there are like no character interactions, and it's not trying to shove a love story down your throat.

i also think a huge part of it is the localization and Atlus has been rocking that for a while now.

 

[TheChaos]

Never played Gabriel Knight.

Really? You have played all those point-and-click games and not the Sierra ones? Get cracking.

 

[Sipowicz]

as far as writing goes, i would actually say that JRPGs today have more interesting and charming characters even if the dialogue isn't as realistic.

Yangus, Ashe, Basch, emma honeywell and even the cast of twewy were far more distict and memorable than the insipd fucks that made up the casts of the wrpgs i've played lately

 

[Lafiel]

Localizations of j-rpgs, that don't opt for a literal translation of the source material - such as the ds dragon quests, final fantasy xii, vagrant story, final fantasy tactics. (psp version), original lunar psx localizations etc, are actually pretty solid, writing-wise.
It's a shame, most j-rpg localizations usually opt for literal translations, though.

The stories in WRPGs and JRPGs are generally equal, and in both sets there are standouts.

As much as fans of both would like to deny it sometimes, WRPGs are riddled with just as many bad cliches as JRPGs and visa versa. They're just DIFFERENT bad cliches.

WRPG fans laugh at JRPG "emo" heros, demure healing chicks, animu faces and in some cases, awkward sexual tension.

JRPG fans laugh at WRPG tree-bonding elves, axe wielding scottish dwarfs, brown environments and in some cases, awkward sexual tension.

A quote from one of my favorite movies, Hero: "Son, life is bullshit. Just layers upon layers of bullshit. When you grow up, you pick the layer of bullshit you prefer, and that's your bullshit."

Oh i agree with this sentiment, i personally find something like a tales game (to name a example for the j-rpg side) to be as annoyingly cliched, as a w-rpg such as dragon age.

To put it simply, it's the Skies of Arcadia of WRPG's.

Is that suppose to be a negative comment towards the witcher? :/

 

[Cep]

as far as writing goes, i would actually say that JRPGs today have more interesting and charming characters even if the dialogue isn't as realistic.

Yangus, Ashe, Basch, emma honeywell and even the cast of twewy were far more distict and memorable than the insipd fucks that made up the casts of the wrpgs i've played lately

Come on now.

Say what you will about ME2/DA (I have probably said it before you), but If there is one thing that distinguishes them from the pack is their cast of characters.

In DA's case, the companions (and The Fade) are the only redeeming parts of the game.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Is that suppose to be a negative comment towards the witcher? :/

Pretty sure Skies of Archadia is very positively regarded by gaffers who have played it.

So probably no.

 

[Lafiel]

Pretty sure Skies of Archadia is very positively regarded by gaffers who have played it.

So probably no.

Well it's not positively regarded by me.:lol

 

[ZephyrFate]

Well it's not positively regarded by me.:lol

What a tragedy. I'm sorry.

 

[Monocle]

- OP gets it. Lost Odyssey's 1000 Years of Dreams short stories boast some of the best writing the entire medium has to offer.

- Kreia's character in KOTOR 2 was written very well.

- The Mass Effect series' dialogue and in-game Codex entries are notable for their wit and creative scope, respectively. Creating a brand new fictional universe with some measure of oriinality is no easy task, especially in a genre like science fiction, whose defining series are so iconic that most new series can't help but borrow from them.

Edit: Also, I can't read. Thread title says JRPGs. Oops. Guess that means I shouldn't mention Morrowind's lore.

 

[EviLore]

What a tragedy. I'm sorry.

*climbs ladder*

*climbs ladder*

*climbs ladder*

*climbs ladder*

*climbs ladder*

LAMBDA BURST

LAMBDA BURST

LAMBDA BURST

LAMBDA BURST

LAMBDA BURST

*descends ladder*

*descends ladder*

*descends ladder*

*descends ladder*

*descends ladder*

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Well it's not positively regarded by me.:lol

Really? Why? I've never actually played it. Never even heard of it til gaf.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Skies is good, aside from a beastly encounter rate. The only people I've met who actually strongly disliked it are people who dislike JRPGs as a genre.

 

[TheChaos]

Where is Matsuno anyways? His bitch-ass needs to get back to writing. And he should take Yoshida with him.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Didn't they ease up on the encounter rate in the GC re-release, Legends?

They did but that pretty much just brought it down to the average, which is still a bit too high for most.

At any rate, I'd take a comparison to Skies as a compliment, but I'm on the side of the fence that doesn't hate JRPGs, so I don't count.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I tend to like characters in JRPGs...stories not so much...if ever....
Yeah that's all I have to say.

*said nothing about actual quality btw. I'm just a sucker with easily manipulated emotions.

 

[Cep]

Where is Matsuno anyways? His bitch-ass needs to get back to writing. And he should take Yoshida with him.

And bring Smith's punk ass as well.

They are all in Japan, how hard can it be to meet together and get this shit pumping?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Where is Matsuno anyways? His bitch-ass needs to get back to writing. And he should take Yoshida with him.

He wrote Madworld! Wasn't that epic?

Yoshida seems happy with his regular job and a boss that doesn't crack like like a frozen puddle with a boot through it at the first sign of trouble.

 

[Lafiel]

Really? Why? I've never actually played it. Never even heard of it til gaf.

I like everything about the game. (story, characters, world, setting). Except for the important part - the gameplay. Which honestly, made the game feel like a damn chore to play through, the "annoying" high random encounter rate, made it even worse.

 

[TheChaos]

He wrote Madworld! Wasn't that epic?

Really? He wrote that? I refuse to believe that, there weren't enough betrayals and convoluted shenanigans.

 

[Cep]

He wrote Madworld! Wasn't that epic?

Yoshida seems happy with his regular job and a boss that doesn't crack like like a frozen puddle with a boot through it at the first sign of trouble.

In all fairness, I get the impression that someone was doing him a favor by getting him some work.

MW feels like it was already 'written'(lol) before he came on-board.

Really? He wrote that? I refuse to believe that, there weren't enough betrayals and convoluted shenanigans.

Gets worse. A.O. Smith translated it.

 

[TheChaos]

In all fairness, I get the impression that someone was doing him a favor by getting him some work.

MW feels like it was already 'written'(lol) before he came on-board.

The game was like 2 hours long, there wasn't much story to write.

 

[Cep]

The game was like 2 hours long, there wasn't much story to write.

The game was closer to 8(ignore the in-game clock, It lies).

But even so, that is part of my point.

 

[Yasae]

I didn't make the rules. These developers decided to spend so much damn time making huge thousand page script stories that suck, and then forcing the gamer to fucking watch it all with no skip scene buttons!

The developers had no rules when making their games. There are principles, but NEVER rules. If you're asking whether an RPG should have certain things, I would say no to all of them. There are no rules. What's so hard to understand?

No rule there should be good writing. No handbook. That's how JRPGs got away with it - and they were better for it, if only because the development team could focus on more important things.

Funny when Square actually got a good script with The Spirits Within... And nobody watched it.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Skies is good, aside from a beastly encounter rate. The only people I've met who actually strongly disliked it are people who dislike JRPGs as a genre.

That's because it embodies everything from JRPG's. The only thing it did new was nail the genre in 3D. So much so that few if any games have matched it's level design execution since.

...God I want to play that game again. I'd wish for a sequel but would be too scared that it would tarnish the franchise.

Didn't they ease up on the encounter rate in the GC re-release, Legends?

I played the GC version, not the DC, and it was still annoying. Hell at times it was flatout ridiculous.

Spoiler

Looking at you Ixa Taka!

 

[zoukka]

I lol @ people saying jRPGs are lightyears behind in characterization when you have games like Persona 3 and 4 which are built around evolving, realistic characters that are lightyears ahead of the tropes wRPGs frequently work with.

Anime schoolgirls were realistic... since when?

 

[ZephyrFate]

Anime schoolgirls were realistic... since when?

I dunno of many other jRPGs or RPGs in general that realistically portray school life in a particular culture, and also realistically portray teenagers. They're not normal, throwaway anime schoolchildren.

 

[TheChaos]

The 4th game at least had some interesting ideas with the characters they are given. For example, it's one of the few RPGs to seriously play with sexuality and gender. It's better characterization than, say, the Tales games with a bunch of anime stereotypes.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Anime schoolgirls were realistic... since when?

As a teacher in Japan, allow me to confirm that the characters in Persona 3 are quite realistic. Especially the robot girl. The one in my class can make toast with her fanny!

 

[Shouta]

Why do these threads always end up being car wrecks?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

MW feels like it was already 'written'(lol) before he came on-board.

Seriously.

PG: "Okay we wrote everything but we just need some political stuff."

Matsuno: "Everyone is an asshole, the end."

GENIUS!

 

[Blackace]

Why do these threads always end up being car wrecks?

Because they are driven by drunken fools?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Why do these threads always end up being car wrecks?

Certain letters or words have a tendency to do that on gaf:

Zelda, Sonic, Final Fantasy, Wii, EDGE, and RPG in this case.