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Let's talk intelligently: Is the Wii done as far as third parties go?

Beth Cyra

Member
Skiesofwonder said:
You really think the fourth Halo or the fifth Call of Duty for a system this late in the ballgame is going the bring that many new people in?

NBA JAM is the first NBA JAM in over 10 years, Goldeneye is a re-imagining of one of the most popular FPS of all-time on a system that has very little good FPSs, Epic Mickey could easily sell as much or more then Kingdom Hearts, DKR is the first real DK on Wii and the first side-scrolling one in over 10 years, Kirby is the first console Kirby in almost 10 years, M:OM is the first side-scrolling Metroid on a console in over 10 years, and Wii Party could easily be Nintendo's next Evergreen title (comes with wiimote and Mario Party 8 sold gangbusters).

I think all of these above titles combined will bring in much more new Wii owners then a new Halo and Call of Duty will for the Xbox 360. Of course this all dwells down to a matter of opinion, but I think Kinect/Move and it's software will do a lot more from bringing new people in to the HD consoles then, once again, the fourth Halo or the fifth COD this console gen.

BTW, I never said The Conduit 2 would bring in new people, and I wouldn't ever think it would. Just was using it to show that Wii does have some compelling (to some people) smaller third party software that makes for a diverse Holiday Line-Up.

I think they will bring in new people, yes.

But that isn't the important part in what I think. Halo, CoD, GT will continue to show the strength of Xbox 360 and PS3 to sell software not only by first party but by third as well as keep desire from both consumers and developer/publishers very high.

These games are going to sell millions and millions of copies and lead right into more multimillion selling games that are for core users.

I do not believe that Metroid (Prime 3 certainly didn't light up the sales charts and from what I remember neither did Fusion but I could be wrong. This is also ignoring that the community is spilt on the game already so it could do worse then expected.) Donkey Kong Country, Kirby, and NBA Jam have the sales power that any of the big name franchises on Xbox 360 or PS3 nor do they have the ablitiy to carry the platform until the next big release.

Outside of Zelda and maybe Wii Relax what are the next BIG games for Nintendo? What is coming next year?

You expect B level franchises to have the power of AAA stuff like Halo and CoD it's crazy, but lets say you are right for just a second.

We got Dragon Age 2, Crisis 2, Epic's New game, and Dead Space 2 <- All of these are from EA alone and are coming next year, can you give me a combined list even with Ninendo that is that good for next year?

And please don't try to tell me that Pikmin is what you are brining to the table.
 

Amir0x

Banned
It's kinda hard to go into lists about future Nintendo releases since they always announce their new releases in a relative short time frame compared to when they expect to release them.

Kirby and DKCR were announced at E3 2010 and will be released at the end of 2010.

By the by, this also ties neatly into my point: they spend far too little time allowing these games to build demand and hype and then they spend far too little money actually marketing such core titles. They haven't done up until now on Wii and I have no reason to expect it's gonna change now.

They left so much of their core games to die. R.I.P. Wario Shake
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Amir0x said:
It's kinda hard to go into lists about future Nintendo releases since they always announce their new releases in a relative short time frame compared to when they expect to release them.

Kirby and DKCR were announced at E3 2010 and will be released at the end of 2010.

By the by, this also ties neatly into my point: they spend far too little time allowing these games to build demand and hype and then they spend far too little money actually marketing such core titles. They haven't done up until now on Wii and I have no reason to expect it's gonna change now.

They left so much of their core games to die. R.I.P. Wario Shake

Okay that is a good point.

But I think when we just a look at a potential/speculative overview at what Nintendo could bring forth for Q1 it isn't that strong.

I mean they could possibly come with a sequel to NSMB Wii and yeah my entire theory would be fucked and I will admit that could happen.

But outside of that they don't have anything that wouldn't tread into Blue Ocean stuff when it comes to established IP that could rival the likes of heavy hitters or generate the amount of buzz as something like EA's offerings in the first half of the year, at least among the core.

Granted they could role out some new IP and blow me and everyone else away, but I am comfortable in thinking that is as likely as PSP becoming the best selling console in North America for the next year.

Not to bag Nintendo I love some of their stuff but even if they role out their B and C level stuff like F - Zero, Wave Race, Star Fox and even include stuff like Xenoblade this is not going to make the 3rd Parties stand up and take notice.
 
Amir0x said:
By the by, this also ties neatly into my point: they spend far too little time allowing these games to build demand and hype and then they spend far too little money actually marketing such core titles. They haven't done up until now on Wii and I have no reason to expect it's gonna change now.

Of course not. They're mad paranoid about revealing stuff to the public. But long term, I don't know how much benefit hype has over "word of mouth" advertising. Can't hurt to have both though.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Amir0x said:
i would die... my heart would literally stop in its chest... if they announced a new F-Zero for Wii.

Well at this point it would seem as likely as anything.

If they really have nothing but Zelda for the first half of next year then it only proves that not only are 3rd parties done but so are Nintendo.

Zelda maybe loved by forum goers like myself but lets be real, it doesn't have the power of a Mario, Halo or CoD and it can't cover the first half of next year on it's own.

That and we have Metroid, Donkey, and Kirby all launching late this year so none of them really fit the bill for being able to support Zelda or Wii after the holiday rush.

That and at this point I almost half expect a new F - Zero is more likely then them trying to fill the gap with Xenoblade.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Little Green Yoda said:
Of course not. They're mad paranoid about revealing stuff to the public. But long term, I don't know how much benefit hype has over "word of mouth" advertising. Can't hurt to have both though.

They have good reason to be, well at least in terms of a prolonged hype train. We have seen several cases of it this gen, probably starting off with Zelda of all things and then Smash both things that they might view hurt them.

It's not only them though FF XIII suffered from this and I wouldn't be surprised if Vs XIII suffers the same fate.

Honestly I was shocked that Alan Wake seemed to escape it given how long it was in development and known to the gaming public.

cosmicblizzard said:
I think we should wait until the October conference before we start writing off Nintendo's first party stuff.


You're right, and it wasn't anything more then my own personal fear that I spoke of. I wasn't trying to present it as fact and I even said they could completely prove every single thing I said wrong.
 

Skiesofwonder

Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
Uh no.... I hate The Conduit, fucking garbage.

And I seriously doubt Halo Reach and Black OPS is going to bring this storm of new people in like Wii Party, Wii Relax, DKR, or Epic Mickey has the potential to do. Just like if you want Nintendo core titles you own a Wii, if you want the next Halo or Call of Duty you already own a Xbox 360. I mean the damn thing is been out for almost 5 years. I'm pretty sure the Halo/Call of Duty fans have had their time to pick up an HD console.

And please tell me wtf has Nintendo had before this year to sustain their overwhelming sales lead for so long? It's like you people forget that Wii is basically a upgraded Gamecube. All the same hardcore support from Nintendo and some small third party core exclusives here and there. Yet GCN was last and Wii is on the track to become the best selling console of all-time.

The only thing that is different (and really matters) is MOTION CONTROL and the software that actually supports it well. Titles like Wii Fit, Wii Play, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Sports, Wii Music, (and to a lesser extent) EA Sports Active, Carnival Games, Just Dance, Mario & Sonic. etc. that you probably don't give a shit about are THE console selling games of this generation. Bigger then Halo, bigger then GTA, bigger then Call of Duty. People literally buy the Wii for that one fricking exercise or mini-game fest that they saw their neighbors having a blast playing with.

What worked three years ago will continue to work now unless Kinect or Move becomes THE holiday title to buy. Halo Reach or COD:BO will have nothing to do with that.
 

Momo

Banned
All three home consoles are different, we buy them for different reasons. I never quite followed why people were clamouring for 3rd party support for the Wii. (I'm not exactly rich but I managed to get myself a PS3/X360/PC/Wii/PSP)

To me it's a real non issue since I just buy what i am interested in on the platform of my choice.


I don't know if it was mentioned before, but didn't Nintendo treat most developers like shit or act anti competitively back when they were the dominant force with NES/SNES? (I seem to recall something like this) Maybe there are some ill feelings still from that period.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Skiesofwonder said:
Uh no.... I hate The Conduit, fucking garbage.

And I seriously doubt Halo Reach and Black OPS is going to bring this storm of new people in like Wii Party, Wii Relax, DKR, or Epic Mickey has the potential to do. Just like if you want Nintendo core titles you own a Wii, if you want the next Halo or Call of Duty you already own a Xbox 360. I mean the damn thing is been out for almost 5 years. I'm pretty sure the Halo/Call of Duty fans have had their time to pick up an HD console.

And please tell me wtf has Nintendo had before this year to sustain their overwhelming sales lead for so long? It's like you people forget that Wii is basically a upgraded Gamecube. All the same hardcore support from Nintendo and some small third party core exclusives here and there. Yet GCN was last and Wii is on the track to become the best selling console of all-time.

The only thing that is different (and really matters) is MOTION CONTROL and the software that actually supports it well. Titles like Wii Fit, Wii Play, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Sports, Wii Music, (and to a lesser extent) EA Sports Active, Carnival Games, Just Dance, Mario & Sonic. etc. that you probably don't give a shit about are THE console selling games of this generation. Bigger then Halo, bigger then GTA, bigger then Call of Duty. People literally buy the Wii for that one fricking exercise or mini-game fest that they saw their neighbors having a blast playing with.

What worked three years ago will continue to work now unless Kinect or Move becomes THE holiday title to buy. Halo Reach or COD:BO will have nothing to do with that.


I think you are completely missing the ponit, at least mine.

Wii Party, Wii Relax, Wii Sports, Wii Fit. Things like these do not matter to third parties.

Even if you are some how right and Halo and CoD do not move units they will move software and while so will the Wii line there is a critical difference, Halo and CoD will move CORE software.

Games that the 3rd Parties make, things that they are comforable and talented at doing.

It doesn't matter how many copies of Wii Fit sales if Resident Evil and Dead Space can't, Capcom and Ea are going to say fuck the Wii and take their ball to another court.

There is no way, zero that Wii performs nearly as well when it comes to 3rd party games this fall. Not only that there is 1, count them 1 core game that could possibly drive sales high enough to be considered a hit and move Wii units.
 

wazoo

Member
Nobod expected the Wii to sell 4M in Us alone last december. I think Wii is its own system seller, the software is here just to help.

I thought that it was already discussed at length on this forum that no game is itself a system seller and we laughed at ps3 owner waiting for the next big thing ?

A large library, huge (positive) maketing push and price drop are usually what make a system sell, IMO.

As for COD, I do not deny its system selling value, more than anything else this gen, I am just surprised that people expect a 5th iteration on the same console to sell systems ?? COD is a system seller, sure, but it has so many past iterations to prove it before ? Do you expect FPS fans to rebuy consoles ?
 

Eteric Rice

Member
Momo said:
All three home consoles are different, we buy them for different reasons. I never quite followed why people were clamouring for 3rd party support for the Wii. (I'm not exactly rich but I managed to get myself a PS3/X360/PC/Wii/PSP)

To me it's a real non issue since I just buy what i am interested in on the platform of my choice.


I don't know if it was mentioned before, but didn't Nintendo treat most developers like shit or act anti competitively back when they were the dominant force with NES/SNES? (I seem to recall something like this) Maybe there are some ill feelings still from that period.

I think most people just hope that next generation we won't have to buy multiple platforms. You can just choose the platform that has the first party titles you like, and everything else is multiplatform across all systems.
 

Momo

Banned
Eteric Rice said:
I think most people just hope that next generation we won't have to buy multiple platforms. You can just choose the platform that has the first party titles you like, and everything else is multiplatform across all systems.
Ha! Good luck deciding if you'd rather play the fourth Ico or Zelda :lol
 

Amir0x

Banned
wazoo said:
As for COD, I do not deny its system selling value, more than anything else this gen, I am just surprised that people expect a 5th iteration on the same console to sell systems ?? COD is a system seller, sure, but it has so many past iterations to prove it before ? Do you expect FPS fans to rebuy consoles ?

Buzz increases with every new iteration. Then new people want to once again see what the fuss is about.

I know two people at work, for example, who didn't even own 360 games except they played CoD at their friends house a lot. And they didn't want to jump into it because people had played these games online for a while and it was too difficult to get into it and learn the maps and gain the ranks versus everybody who had a year to do it.

Both now own a 360. Why? For the sole purpose of Black Ops. They want to be there and part of the experience from day one. This is not a new phenomenon, but it's compounded for certain online centric games imo.
 

Momo

Banned
Eteric Rice said:
I'm a Zelda man myself. :D
I like both Sony and Nintendo's first party output(not the Wii __ series mind), so I'll be stuck in the multi console zone eternally :lol
 

Skiesofwonder

Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
TruePrime said:
I think you are completely missing the ponit, at least mine.

Wii Party, Wii Relax, Wii Sports, Wii Fit. Things like these do not matter to third parties.

Even if you are some how right and Halo and CoD do not move units they will move software and while so will the Wii line there is a critical difference, Halo and CoD will move CORE software.

Games that the 3rd Parties make, things that they are comforable and talented at doing.

It doesn't matter how many copies of Wii Fit sales if Resident Evil and Dead Space can't, Capcom and Ea are going to say fuck the Wii and take their ball to another court.

There is no way, zero that Wii performs nearly as well when it comes to 3rd party games this fall. Not only that there is 1, count them 1 core game that could possibly drive sales high enough to be considered a hit and move Wii units.

I get this point, but that's not what we are talking about. You said that Halo Reach and COD:BO will help make Xbox 360 and PS3 sell more consoles this Holiday Season compared to Wii (I even bolded that part when I quoted you).

Which I completely disagree with. Wii has the usual (better then usual if you ask me) diverse Core/Casual holiday line-up that makes Wii sell gangbusters in the holiday season. And once again, Xbox 360 and PS3 has their big core titles, but yet never before has that been enough to topple the Wii, so why should this year result in anything different?

The only thing that has a chance of changing anything is if Kinect or Move become huge successes. Then We have popcorn.gif NPD threads and I am super happy because we take one step closer to motion control gaming becoming accurate enough and a big enough success across the broad to where more talent developers like Valve, Bethesda, Team Ico, etc. start to actually take advantage of it. :D
 

Amir0x

Banned
Skiesofwonder said:
Then We have popcorn.gif NPD threads and I am super happy because we take one step closer to motion control gaming becoming accurate enough and a big enough success across the broad to where more talent developers like Valve, Bethesda, Team Ico, etc. start to actually take advantage of it. :D

Just wanted to take this time to give you RESPEK KNUCKLES for not being a huge hypocrite and supporting something you like across all platforms and developers, instead of screaming copycat while covering your ears as so many Wii fans do.

I strongly dislike all the current slate of motion controls and so obviously hate this direction but I admire consistency in people.

:thumbsup.gif:
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
The Wii was made at it's conception to be cheap to develop for (GC graphics) and to have unique gameplay separate from what is done on PS3/360. These two reasons alone meant that whatever third party support they would have would be different than PS3/360. We could argue about it till we're blue in the face, but at the end of the day, Nintendo developed the system with this in mind and third partied dropped the ball as well. It's too late for Wii imo and Reggie and team need to seriously look at how they handle third parties and advertising for the next system.
 
Momo said:
All three home consoles are different, we buy them for different reasons. I never quite followed why people were clamouring for 3rd party support for the Wii. (I'm not exactly rich but I managed to get myself a PS3/X360/PC/Wii/PSP)
Because it would be nice to buy something other than Nintendo games on Nintendo systems and not everyone can afford to buy more than one console.
 

Lyude77

Member
TruePrime said:
I would never forget this. But the thing is Black Ops on Wii will probably sell really well, extremely well for a third party game on Wii.

What it won't do is any where near the numbers it does on the other platforms, and while that is fine because it shouldn't have to the bigger problem is it will not push people to get a Wii.

This is only my opinion but Black Ops on Wii will sell to those who where going to get a Wii anyway or already had a Wii in the first place.

Black Ops while it's showing will be weaker then MW 1 and 2 will like it's older brothers drive people to the platform.

The amount of people that will pick up Xbox 360's and PS3's this holiday could be higher Wii's and this is with these 2 games that already have established fanbases.

Do you think that Donkey Kong, Metroid, Kirby and Mickey will drive sales in the same way as these two games alone? I doubt it.

Even more so when you factor in things that these will not be the only two games that are improtant to gamers lauching this fall which will lead into games next jan/feb like Crysis 2, Dragon Age, Gears of War and many other titles.

That is why Xbox 360 and Ps3 won't bottom out while it is likely that if Mickey and Vitality Sensor fails to turn into Wii Sports/Fit and New Super Mario Brothers Wii, Wii continues to look worse and worse and the Xbox 360 and PS3 better and better.

Note change out GT for Halo when thinking about PS3.
What you're missing when it comes to Black Ops and Halo: Reach is that the target market likely already owns a 360, just like Black Ops' target market already owns a Wii (or isn't buying one). The sales for Modern Warfare 2 were so massive that I think almost anyone who was interested in it would have a 360 by now, and Halo Reach is in a similar situation with Halo 3. I don't know the kinds of bumps that CoD put up in the past for something like WaW, but that's probably a good comparison here (if anyone does know off the top of their head, I'd really appreciate it). They will sell well, of course, i just doubt their hardware-selling power in this situation. The other titles you mentioned are also sequels in an already massive genre, so I expect the same kind of increase (but less), though they all might amaze me. Honestly, it will be hard to tell because of the massive increases associated with the holidays, so we might have to agree to disagree there. :D

With Mickey, DK, and Kirby, I see it differently (I don't think Metroid will do anything for hardware, and it might be lucky to break a million because of how much it's divided its own audience, as you mentioned). As long as Mickey doesn't have many issues, like bad game mechanics or something that would give it bad word of mouth, then I think it'll be massive. Mickey's already one of the biggest brand names, and when you pair that with the amount of respect Spector gets from the core, that pretty much spells success, as long as there's a marketing campaign (which there should be).

After Mickey, I'm not sure whether Kirby or DK will do better overall, but I think they'll both break 2 million. I know people will call me out for that kind of a prediction for Kirby, but Superstar Ultra sold extremely well for a port from an SNES game, and I think that suggests that at least Japan wants a new entry that's somewhat similar in quality and mechanics to the traditional ones. Even Kirby: Squeak Squad sold somewhere around 2 million worldwide, and many thought it was mediocre. Note: Kirby isn't the type of game that needs portability, so I don't think pointing out the portable vs. console sales argument is worthwhile here. Kirby is also the kind of game that provides easy fun and works with children, which will help Epic Yarn's cause, especially since parents can play co-op with their kids. The rich visual style might even give it more attention than the usual Kirby games in the West, and E3 showed signs pointing toward that idea (when was the last time a Kirby game won...anything?). Good Feel is also a decent developer, so I expect the game mechanics to work out well (a little less faith in them than Spector).

DK is a stronger brand for the West, so it has a larger potential audience, but it's Rare's first platformer, so it's kind of a toss up on the level of success (it'll be over a million, but after that, I'm not sure). DKC is a strong franchise that used to (at least somewhat) rival Sonic and Mario, so it needs to be as good as or better than NSMB Wii to do excellent (I could say Sonic 4, but I don't think that will be difficult). How well it does will really depend on how accessible it is and how it compares to the older DKC games. NSMB Wii partially did excellent because some people thought that it was better than SMW, for instance, and competing with the past is very important when a main strategy is to try to get people to get a game based on their previous enjoyment of the series (otherwise some will stay satisfied with the classics). If Rare can make the game rich in content and inviting/accessible for new players, it could do very well. I definitely don't think it will top the original DKC at 8 million unless it's by the best in the series and advertised well, etc., but it definitely has a chance to top DKC3 at 3 million or so. All of these series have not been on the Wii before this release, so I see them causing fans of the series to buy a Wii. Platformers are an established genre for the Wii, and these are all relatively high-profile, so they shouldn't have the same problems as some other, more niche games. The 15 million people who bought NSMB Wii didn't disappear, and I think some of them will be attracted to these platformers because of its example.

I also don't think this will help the Wii's third party relations with anyone but Disney and maybe Sega, however, because few third parties care about or can make platformers.

Nintendo's real problem from what we know is next year. DQX will be huge for Japan's hardware, but America/Europe only have Zelda and Pikmin 3, and hopefully Last Story and Xenoblade. I like Pikmin, but it is even more B-tier than Kirby and DK, so I don't think it will have much of a hardware effect at all. Xenoblade and Last Story are more like C-tier in the West sales-wise, so that's pretty much the same deal. The Wii won't be as successful next year if Zelda is the only game able to carry the Wii to sell well...Even though I'm optimistic about Nintendo's prospects for this holiday, even I can't see them going much past next year without a hardware announcement. They've basically used all of their franchises or are using them for the 3DS, except for F-Zero, and follow-up games like SMG2 just aren't going to help them as much as they would like. Nintendo themselves said that when they ran out of ideas, they would move on, and, at least from the outside, it looks like the Wii's potential for new ideas from Nintendo will be mostly over by the time they release Zelda. As I said before, though, I'm ready to be amazed if companies/games do the unexpected, and I'm ready to be corrected if I'm factually wrong on something (it is 3 AM here).

Basically what Skiesofwonder said...
 

wazoo

Member
Skiesofwonder said:
The only thing that has a chance of changing anything is if Kinect or Move become huge successes. Then We have popcorn.gif NPD threads and I am super happy because we take one step closer to motion control gaming becoming accurate enough and a big enough success across the broad to where more talent developers like Valve, Bethesda, Team Ico, etc. start to actually take advantage of it. :D

Yes, the ps3 owner I am would be very happy to join the Wii owner I am in the motion control fest. Even the new "dual pad approach" that Move implies is a good thing.

Only Kinect is not interesting me.
 

Skiesofwonder

Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
Amir0x said:
Buzz increases with every new iteration. Then new people want to once again see what the fuss is about.

I know two people at work, for example, who didn't even own 360 games except they played CoD at their friends house a lot. And they didn't want to jump into it because people had played these games online for a while and it was too difficult to get into it and learn the maps and gain the ranks versus everybody who had a year to do it.

Both now own a 360. Why? For the sole purpose of Black Ops. They want to be there and part of the experience from day one. This is not a new phenomenon, but it's compounded for certain online centric games imo.

Maybe so, but that still doesn't prove that a fifth Call of Duty is a bigger system seller then say some brand-new, popular, motion-control software for Wii.

For example, when I worked at Best Buy right around the time Just Dance came out, I literally went through a period to where over 2 Wiis were purchased a day just for the sole reason of playing Just Dance on it. That must of lasted over a month. We had Just Dance on the Wii big screen station. People loved it.

Edit: Thanks Amir0x, yeah I love motion control and welcome it with open arms. When a developer does it well it can take a gaming experience to a totally different immersion-level...... and I also think it's a blast. Hopefully if more talented developers start taking it seriously now some type of software will come out that makes you (and others still on the fence) look at Motion Control in a different light. Also, it would be nice to finally have a somewhat intelligent conversation on GAF about actual motion control gaming. So much of it seems to dwell down to fanboy wars and "waggle Waggle". :(



P.S. Now come to my party!!!! :p
 
Skiesofwonder said:
I get this point, but that's not what we are talking about. You said that Halo Reach and COD:BO will help make Xbox 360 and PS3 sell more consoles this Holiday Season compared to Wii (I even bolded that part when I quoted you).

Which I completely disagree with. Wii has the usual (better then usual if you ask me) diverse Core/Casual holiday line-up that makes Wii sell gangbusters in the holiday season. And once again, Xbox 360 and PS3 has their big core titles, but yet never before has that been enough to topple the Wii, so why should this year result in anything different?

The only thing that has a chance of changing anything is if Kinect or Move become huge successes. Then We have popcorn.gif NPD threads and I am super happy because we take one step closer to motion control gaming becoming accurate enough and a big enough success across the broad to where more talent developers like Valve, Bethesda, Team Ico, etc. start to actually take advantage of it. :D

I seriously hope this happens (even though I'm not a fan of any of those companies). Motion control has so much potential and the people saying it's only good for casual games need to be bit more imaginative.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Lyude77 said:
What you're missing when it comes to Black Ops and Halo: Reach is that the target market likely already owns a 360, just like Black Ops' target market already owns a Wii (or isn't buying one). The sales for Modern Warfare 2 were so massive that I think almost anyone who was interested in it would have a 360 by now, and Halo Reach is in a similar situation with Halo 3. I don't know the kinds of bumps that CoD put up in the past for something like WaW, but that's probably a good comparison here (if anyone does know off the top of their head, I'd really appreciate it). They will sell well, of course, i just doubt their hardware-selling power in this situation. The other titles you mentioned are also sequels in an already massive genre, so I expect the same kind of increase (but less), though they all might amaze me. Honestly, it will be hard to tell because of the massive increases associated with the holidays, so we might have to agree to disagree there. :D

With Mickey, DK, and Kirby, I see it differently (I don't think Metroid will do anything for hardware, and it might be lucky to break a million because of how much it's divided its own audience, as you mentioned). As long as Mickey doesn't have many issues, like bad game mechanics or something that would give it bad word of mouth, then I think it'll be massive. Mickey's already one of the biggest brand names, and when you pair that with the amount of respect Spector gets from the core, that pretty much spells success, as long as there's a marketing campaign (which there should be).

After Mickey, I'm not sure whether Kirby or DK will do better overall, but I think they'll both break 2 million. I know people will call me out for that kind of a prediction for Kirby, but Superstar Ultra sold extremely well for a port from an SNES game, and I think that suggests that at least Japan wants a new entry that's somewhat similar in quality and mechanics to the traditional ones. Even Kirby: Squeak Squad sold somewhere around 2 million worldwide, and many thought it was mediocre. Note: Kirby isn't the type of game that needs portability, so I don't think pointing out the portable vs. console sales argument is worthwhile here. Kirby is also the kind of game that provides easy fun and works with children, which will help Epic Yarn's cause, especially since parents can play co-op with their kids. The rich visual style might even give it more attention than the usual Kirby games in the West, and E3 showed signs pointing toward that idea (when was the last time a Kirby game won...anything?). Good Feel is also a decent developer, so I expect the game mechanics to work out well (a little less faith in them than Spector).

DK is a stronger brand for the West, so it has a larger potential audience, but it's Rare's first platformer, so it's kind of a toss up on the level of success (it'll be over a million, but after that, I'm not sure). DKC is a strong franchise that used to (at least somewhat) rival Sonic and Mario, so it needs to be as good as or better than NSMB Wii to do excellent (I could say Sonic 4, but I don't think that will be difficult). How well it does will really depend on how accessible it is and how it compares to the older DKC games. NSMB Wii partially did excellent because some people thought that it was better than SMW, for instance, and competing with the past is very important when a main strategy is to try to get people to get a game based on their previous enjoyment of the series (otherwise some will stay satisfied with the classics). If Rare can make the game rich in content and inviting/accessible for new players, it could do very well. I definitely don't think it will top the original DKC at 8 million unless it's by the best in the series and advertised well, etc., but it definitely has a chance to top DKC3 at 3 million or so. All of these series have not been on the Wii before this release, so I see them causing fans of the series to buy a Wii. Platformers are an established genre for the Wii, and these are all relatively high-profile, so they shouldn't have the same problems as some other, more niche games. The 15 million people who bought NSMB Wii didn't disappear, and I think some of them will be attracted to these platformers because of its example.

I also don't think this will help the Wii's third party relations with anyone but Disney and maybe Sega, however, because few third parties care about or can make platformers.

Nintendo's real problem from what we know is next year. DQX will be huge for Japan's hardware, but America/Europe only have Zelda and Pikmin 3, and hopefully Last Story and Xenoblade. I like Pikmin, but it is even more B-tier than Kirby and DK, so I don't think it will have much of a hardware effect at all. Xenoblade and Last Story are more like C-tier in the West sales-wise, so that's pretty much the same deal. The Wii won't be as successful next year if Zelda is the only game able to carry the Wii to sell well...Even though I'm optimistic about Nintendo's prospects for this holiday, even I can't see them going much past next year without a hardware announcement. They've basically used all of their franchises or are using them for the 3DS, except for F-Zero, and follow-up games like SMG2 just aren't going to help them as much as they would like. Nintendo themselves said that when they ran out of ideas, they would move on, and, at least from the outside, it looks like the Wii's potential for new ideas from Nintendo will be mostly over by the time they release Zelda. As I said before, though, I'm ready to be amazed if companies/games do the unexpected, and I'm ready to be corrected if I'm factually wrong on something (it is 3 AM here).

Basically what Skiesofwonder said...

I disagree, a large bulk of the core that will pick up Xbox 360/PS3 for Halo and CoD already own the platform, yes I agree with but I do not agree that they will not push Xbox 360 units this holiday.

Also I stand by what I said I believe that Halo Reach, Call of Duty BO, and GT will (with maybe the exception of Epic Mickey.) push more Xbox 360's into core gamer hands then any combined amount of 3rd Party Wii software.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Skiesofwonder said:
Maybe so, but that still doesn't prove that a fifth Call of Duty is a bigger system seller then say some brand-new, popular, motion-control software for Wii.

For example, when I worked at Best Buy right around the time Just Dance came out, I literally went through a period to where over 2 Wiis were purchased a day just for the sole reason of playing Just Dance on it. That must of lasted over a month. We had Just Dance on the Wii big screen station. People loved it.

But how is this relevant to this thread at all?
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Skiesofwonder said:
How is it not relevant? We are still talking about third-party Wii games correct?

I don't know about you but I have been talking about Core material product from third parties, games that people on places like Neogaf care about.

Wii Party, Wii Relax and Just Dance 2 are completely non issues as far as this demographic, and no matter what they sell it will not change the 3rd Party outlook when it comes to these types of games.
 

Skiesofwonder

Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
TruePrime said:
I don't know about you but I have been talking about Core material product from third parties, games that people on places like Neogaf care about.

Wii Party, Wii Relax and Just Dance 2 are completely non issues as far as this demographic, and no matter what they sell it will not change the 3rd Party outlook when it comes to these types of games.

This whole conversation stemmed off of you saying that with Halo Reach and COD:BO, Xbox 360/PS3 would sell more units this Holiday Season then Wii. I believe we are still talking about that (and not just the core demographic).
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
TruePrime said:
But how is this relevant to this thread at all?
It shows there may be some fanbase to build on? Really, this coming wave of games is most likely the last chance 3rd parties could make any foundation. They can choice to pass over it like they will probably do, or really clench in and try to get something there. I really dislike how barren the console landscape feels to me IMO where the best selling console is not the same as the main core gaming system, and that the 360 and PS3 feel like carbon copies with very few defining features IMO.

I am quiet pleased with the hand held's this gen. Not only did we get 2 systems with very good and different libraries (While the PSP's library comes at a trickle, its built up a very impressive back catalog), the future looks bright. Its just a shame that so much effort got taken off the DS to make 3DS games, the future is thining out for it.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Skiesofwonder said:
This whole conversation stemmed off of you saying wiht Halo reach and COD:BO, Xbox 360/PS3 would sell more units this Holiday season the Wii. I believe we are still talking about that (and not just the core demographic).

My comment was based on the purpose of this thread, 3rd Party meaningful software, not trash throw away software, is it dead on Wii?

How is my statement in context of the thread you keep replying to false?

Drkirby said:
It shows there may be some fanbase to build on? Really, this coming wave of games is most likely the last chance 3rd parties could make any foundation. They can choice to pass over it like they will probably do, or really clench in and try to get something there. I really dislike how barren the console landscape feels to me IMO where the best selling console is not the same as the main core gaming system, and that the 360 and PS3 feel like carbon copies with very few defining features IMO.

I am quiet pleased with the hand held's this gen. Not only did we get 2 systems with very good and different libraries (While the PSP's library comes at a trickle, its built up a very impressive back catalog), the future looks bright. Its just a shame that so much effort got taken off the DS to make 3DS games, the future is thining out for it.

Hey I would love to be wrong, more then anything. I lined up for a Wii bought most big name games that came out for it including third party and I love the controller. I would be delighted to have more Software aimed at me and for everything I have said to be wrong.

But I don't see any evidence that outside of a very select group of remaning titles any more meaningful exlusive titles coming to Wii. Or a desire from 3rd Party developers or Publishers to change this trend.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Yeah, I don't see a desire ether. Like I said, there is a window of opportunity where it could maybe happen, but I really don't see it happening.
 

Skiesofwonder

Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
TruePrime said:
My comment was based on the purpose of this thread, 3rd Party meaningful software, not trash throw away software, is it dead on Wii?

How is my statement in context of the thread you keep replying to false?

Well technically your statement isn't false (yet) but if you look at the way things have worked out in the past, big time CORE titles for the Xbox 360 and PS3 is not enough to pass the Wii during the Holiday Season. Especially when Wii has a stronger line-up then usual (IMO) and potential TWO Wii titles.

I hate beating this statement like a dead horse, but the only chance for Xbox 360 or PS3 to pass Wii is if Kinect or Move becomes super big this Christmas.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Skiesofwonder said:
Well technically your statement isn't false (yet) but if you look at the way things have worked out in the past, big time CORE titles for the Xbox 360 and PS3 is not enough to pass the Wii during the Holiday Season. Especially when Wii has a stronger line-up then usual (IMO) and potential TWO Wii titles.

I hate beating this statement like a dead horse, but the only chance for Xbox 360 or PS3 to pass Wii is if Kinect or Move becomes super big this Christmas.

Your more then welcome to think this if you like.

But I would like to point out that you aren't right either or at least I don't think so, I could be wrong on this next one.

Halo 3 was enough to push past Wii, and while Halo 3 ODST didn't do it that game had probably the worst stigma about it by any game developed by Bungie, because how many people viewed it as an expansion.

Also your idea basis the idea that the majority of new Wii owners this holiday will be those purchasing Metroid Other M, Donkey Kong, Kirby, and Epic Mickey. This I do not believe to be the case. They may factor in some what, but I don't believe it will be as heavy as Halo/GT/CoD.

One more thing, my thoughts on this do not mean that I think that Xbox 360 or PS3 will beat Wii this november in NPDS, my theory is simply that the % customers picking up their brand new Xbox 360's and PS3's will be higher for games like Call of Duty, Halo and GT then the new Wii owners picking it up for Wii's new hardcore releases.
 
Amir0x said:
Just wanted to take this time to give you RESPEK KNUCKLES for not being a huge hypocrite and supporting something you like across all platforms and developers, instead of screaming copycat while covering your ears as so many Wii fans do.

I strongly dislike all the current slate of motion controls and so obviously hate this direction but I admire consistency in people.

:thumbsup.gif:
I was doing that before it was cool.

*pouts*

Except for Kinect. I don't really see too many hardcore game applications for it so I remain highly skeptical. Love the look of Move though. And the added PS3 power make it closer to my ideal motion control device.

Need to get a PS3 in the interim though.
 
Amir0x said:
You have no point to get. It's wild fantasizing you're doing, not point making - no offense. Wii has not even been on the market a full four years (and actually, Red Steel 2 came out when it was closer to three). They released a game on the launch, and you wanted them to turn around and make a similar game in a short time frame. Even if they started DAY ONE and had a reasonable development time frame of two years, it would have only come out mere months earlier than it actually did. And if it came out any earlier than that, it would have been even more mediocre than it actually is. That's what you're advocating... even more rushed product to put off consumers faster and harder.

Not true at all. I'm not advocating rushed product; I'm only advocating treating one console the same way as another in regards to game releases. You're the one trying to twist that into something outlandish, and it's childish.

well, there is a caveat to my commentary. I don't consider any of the "spin-off" Resident Evil games to be platform-proof. This goes for any of the big franchises, really. A spin-off is never going to have as much selling power as a mainline game. RE4 is a mainline RE game, though, so the point I was making was specifically applicable to this example you were using.

All this is obvious to you, to me, and should be to Capcom. So why are you debating with me about it? They let demand sit unfulfilled, that's my simple point. Well, actually, they tried to meet that demand with the lowest quality game they thought they could get away with. They had several options to make money on the Wii, and chose the cheapest, laziest ones. And they drove away the customers.

The reason Darkside Chronicles bombed is because there is no foundation for hardcore games on Wii, and there never was.

That's incredibly naive considering how Umbrella Chronicles sold. Darkside Chronicles bombed because the market that bought UC was driven away by the time of its release, by lack of decent product. You're one of those people; you say so quite clearly right there in your last post. Again, how can you be arguing otherwise when you're contradicting yourself by doing so? You're calling a million people who made the same purchase decision that you did non-existant--and yourself as well.

Apparently the difference between you and me is that I liked quite a few early Wii games and wanted more, whereas you've decided that they were all shit and that everyone else thought so, too. Either way, the market to buy those games did exist, because they sold. Whether consumers were driven away because there weren't enough good games including the ones they bought or other than the ones they bought is irrelevant, and you're wrong.


Anyone who could possibly be satisfied by the complete crap the first CoD on Wii was - particularly in comparison to every other version on the market - and then wants to buy more (which were also crippled in ways too numerous to count in comparisons to their brothers) is someone who enjoys abuse. It's someone who doesn't just enjoy it, but rewards it.

Oh, get over yourself. You don't decide what's good for anyone but you. People enjoy different things. I liked CoD because the pointer controls worked well, simple as that. I'll happily admit the game outside of that was a poor reflection of its HD counterpart, but I was bored with WWII shooters and gave the fresh controls a shot. Those controls made it unique and worked well enough to whet my appetite for hopefully better games in the genre. That's entirely reasonable. Quite more so that your sadist theory.

I do not need to know you to understand this as an absolute fact. Don't take it personally, it just is what it is.

Yikes. I thought this was a discussion amongst reasonable, intelligent individuals. "It's a fact that what you like sucks" is a bit out of that realm, isn't it? Let's try and stay in keeping with the thread title.


...no developer anywhere should have to stop making what they're GOOD at because Nintendo was too stubborn to include them in the process or make their system more than the extremely close-minded and cynical grab at grandma and grandpa. It could have been that PLUS more, but they closed their options. And they specifically isolated those options away from developers.

I can agree with that, sure. And I completely respect companies that decided not to work on the Wii. There's nothing wrong with that. It's the ones that did so, but with incredibly low standards (which is quite a few of them) that bother me. Developers left and right made what amounts to shovelware for the Wii. How is that better than "lowering their standards" to work outside their chosen genre? That's another very twisted view. I guess if you're going to "stop making what you're good at", you should go all the way down, is that it? That's a load of BS.


3rd Parties absolutely did leave money on the table.

Yes, they did. Sorry to clip your whole rationale about how at first that was nobody's fault (which I agree with), and later it was Nintendo's fault, but it was really terrible. As I said, sure, Nintendo deserves some of the blame. But not all of it, and not the majority of it. I have no doubt that Nintendo is awful to work with, but these companies are responsible for their own decisions and product. Your "not my fault" attitude is silly. Actually, I find it amusingly reminiscent of a gamer whining that the jump button didn't work. Clearly, it's Nintendo's fault you lost.
 

Skiesofwonder

Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
TruePrime said:
Your more then welcome to think this if you like.

But I would like to point out that you aren't right either or at least I don't think so, I could be wrong on this next one.

Halo 3 was enough to push past Wii, and while Halo 3 ODST didn't do it that game had probably the worst stigma about it by any game developed by Bungie, because how many people viewed it as an expansion.

Also your idea basis the idea that the majority of new Wii owners this holiday will be those purchasing Metroid Other M, Donkey Kong, Kirby, and Epic Mickey. This I do not believe to be the case. They may factor in some what, but I don't believe it will be as heavy as Halo/GT/CoD.

One more thing, my thoughts on this do not mean that I think that Xbox 360 or PS3 will beat Wii this november in NPDS, my theory is simply that the % customers picking up their brand new Xbox 360's and PS3's will be higher for games like Call of Duty, Halo and GT then the new Wii owners picking it up for Wii's new hardcore releases.

I'll respect your opinion on the above (even though I strongly disagree), but the bolded part is:

A. Not what you originally said
B. We have no way of proving that one way or the other.

And I also think you guys extremely underestimate what Epic Mickey, NBA JAM, Goldeneye, Metroid: Other M, Epic Yarn, and DKC:R can do. There is a reason why even the majority of the hardcore gaming base thought Nintendo hands down won E3 this year. Because they finally offered lots of brand new CORE oriented content that hardcore gamers actually wanted. So many people I talked to after that event said "Welp, finally time to buy a Wii". I seriously think that line-up this year can bring in a ton of hardcore gamers that have stayed away from the Wii so far.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Skiesofwonder said:
I'll respect your opinion on the above (even though I strongly disagree), but the bolded part is:

A. Not what you originally said
B. We have no idea of proving that one way or the other, so kind of pointless to talk about it.

And I also think you guys extremely underestimate what Epic Mickey, NBA JAM, Goldeneye, Metroid: Other M, Epic Yarn, and DKC:R can do. There is a reason why even the majority of the hardcore gaming base thought Nintendo hands down won E3 this year. Because they finally offered lots of brand new CORE oriented content that hardcore gamers actually wanted. So many people I talked to after that event said "Welp, finally time to buy a Wii". I seriously think that line-up this year can bring in a ton of hardcore gamers that have stayed away from the Wii so far.

This is exactly what I said, Halo 3/CoD/GT will push more units into Core gamer hands this fall, I have said it half a dozen times. You choose to take that as it would have a higher NPD figure.

I didn't bother with the NPD figure because it was speculation but the fact is every Wii sold to someone based on Nintendo First party or Blue Ocean games only serves to cement this thread and prove that Wii Third Party core software has all but reached it's end.

What is the point of saying that it can't be proven? That's obvious, it is based on my own opinions and the trends that we have seen.

As far as your opinion on the hardcore titles? Well that is good and maybe your right, I don't believe this to be the case.
 

Skiesofwonder

Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
TruePrime said:
This is exactly what I said, Halo 3/CoD/GT will push more units into Core gamer hands this fall, I have said it half a dozen times. You choose to take that as it would have a higher NPD figure.

I didn't bother with the NPD figure because it was speculation but the fact is every Wii sold to someone based on Nintendo First party or Blue Ocean games only serves to cement this thread and prove that Wii Third Party core software has all but reached it's end.

What is the point of saying that it can't be proven? That's obvious, it is based on my own opinions and the trends that we have seen.

As far as your opinion on the hardcore titles? Well that is good and maybe your right, I don't believe this to be the case.

Obviously our opinions differt greatly and I see no point in continuing to butt heads, but I would like to point out what EXACTLY you said.

TruePrime said:
The amount of people that will pick up Xbox 360's and PS3's this holiday could be higher Wii's and this is with these 2 games that already have established fanbases.
 
Momo said:
I never quite followed why people were clamouring for 3rd party support for the Wii.

Black Rainbow said:
Because it would be nice to buy something other than Nintendo games on Nintendo systems and not everyone can afford to buy more than one console.

That's one reason, but it's not mine. I have large game libraries on all the systems, so I'm not starved for variety.

The reason for me is quite simple: I wanted games using the new motion/pointer controls in genres that Nintendo doesn't work in. That hasn't worked out very well, so now I'm hoping that Move might deliver it instead. Failing that, maybe the next round of consoles will.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Skiesofwonder said:
Obviously our opinions differt greatly and I see no point in continuing to butt heads, but I would like to point out what EXACTLY you said.

Fine you are right. I said something else.

I will just remember from now on not to give Gaf and it's members enough credit to know what we are talking about for each thread we are in and also to no notice that each post afterwords when people leave out things/ or flat say things like Wii Party, Just Dance 2 and other such titles aren't important to the discussion to not believe them and take everything at face value, completely throwing away all context.

Thanks for the heads up.
 

AniHawk

Member
Amir0x said:
They left so much of their core games to die. R.I.P. Wario Shake

A side note:
Wario Land did roughly in the realm of 350k-400k by my guess, probably thanks to NSMBW. The month NSMBW sold 2m or whatever it was, Wario basically doubled its LTD. That would mean it performed twice as good as Wario World, and probably did well enough to fund Kirby.
 

[Nintex]

Member
Skiesofwonder said:
And I also think you guys extremely underestimate what Epic Mickey, NBA JAM, Goldeneye, Metroid: Other M, Epic Yarn, and DKC:R can do. There is a reason why even the majority of the hardcore gaming base thought Nintendo hands down won E3 this year. Because they finally offered lots of brand new CORE oriented content that hardcore gamers actually wanted. So many people I talked to after that event said "Welp, finally time to buy a Wii". I seriously think that line-up this year can bring in a ton of hardcore gamers that have stayed away from the Wii so far.
This holiday Nintendo has made a strategy that is best described as a love letter to the fans. GoldenEye, Donkey Kong Country, Kirby, Metroid, that's more like one of the pre-E3 fanboy lists of 'what will Nintendo show?'. They know what to expect from those games and might even get some more interest for those franchises due to the Wii's insane userbase. I don't think those games will bring in a 'ton' of hardcore gamers. Metroid, well with Prime 3 on the system most fans probably own a Wii already. Some Team Ninja, 2D Metroid fans might pick the game up, but it's mostly aimed at Nintendo's fanbase which already owns Wii's. The same goes for Donkey Kong, seems they're banking on people who bought New Super Mario Bros. .

As far as the casual audience goes, it seems that Nintendo is done expanding the market with the Wii and has put their eggs in the 3DS/Wii2 basket. Wii Party wouldn't have been an holiday title if they had Wii Relax or the Vitality Sensor ready. My guess is they'll drop the price of the Wii to $149 as well and expect great things from Just Dance. Maybe they'll squeeze out some more fan money with Pikmin early next year. Next E3, they'll announce their new system much like the 3DS with more and better third party support.
 
Amir0x said:
i would die... my heart would literally stop in its chest... if they announced a new F-Zero for Wii.

Racing games are traditionally held as technology showcases for the platforms they are released on. F-Zero in particular is a racing game whose heritage is built almost entirely on extremely high rates of speed and precision control requirements, so much so that F-Zero X on N64 purposely used very low quality environments to maintain a constant 60fps. So, F-Zero is a franchise based on super-high-speed, much like the Burnout franchise, and racing games are often used as technical showcases for platforms, most famously Gran Turismo on the Sony side and Project Gotham Racing on the Microsoft side. Oh, and you have to race absolutely perfectly in order to survive in F-Zero GX. F-Zero has always been the "hardcore" racing franchise in Nintendo's stable compared with the "casual" racing of Mario Kart.

None of these traits would be very practically applicable to the Wii. Nintendo could just re-release F-Zero GX with motion controls tacked on for the Wii, except for you would be dying left and right as you flew off the tracks trying to play with motion controls instead of the D-pad.

This is actually a big problem for the Wii in general, and why 3rd parties have largely abandoned it. The Wii doesn't meet the technical profile of the 360 and PS3, making porting difficult, and the non-traditional control system bundled in the box (you have to buy Classic or GC controllers separately!) is ill-suited for many traditional game genres, including FPS which the Wii was supposedly going to revolutionize. And it's why I don't see an F-Zero game for the Wii, ever, because Nintendo wouldn't allow a half-baked version of Captain Falcon Racing on store shelves with their logo on it.
 

Sadist

Member
Leondexter said:
The reason for me is quite simple: I wanted games using the new motion/pointer controls in genres that Nintendo doesn't work in. That hasn't worked out very well, so now I'm hoping that Move might deliver it instead. Failing that, maybe the next round of consoles will.
Same goes for me. I'm definitely trying out Move and games like RE 5 Gold Edition and I really like what I saw when they demonstrated Sorcery. Here's hoping developers will explore the possibilties in the near future and beyond.
 

[Nintex]

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
Racing games are traditionally held as technology showcases for the platforms they are released on. F-Zero in particular is a racing game whose heritage is built almost entirely on extremely high rates of speed and precision control requirements, so much so that F-Zero X on N64 purposely used very low quality environments to maintain a constant 60fps. So, F-Zero is a franchise based on super-high-speed, much like the Burnout franchise, and racing games are often used as technical showcases for platforms, most famously Gran Turismo on the Sony side and Project Gotham Racing on the Microsoft side. Oh, and you have to race absolutely perfectly in order to survive in F-Zero GX. F-Zero has always been the "hardcore" racing franchise in Nintendo's stable compared with the "casual" racing of Mario Kart.

None of these traits would be very practically applicable to the Wii. Nintendo could just re-release F-Zero GX with motion controls tacked on for the Wii, except for you would be dying left and right as you flew off the tracks trying to play with motion controls instead of the D-pad.

This is actually a big problem for the Wii in general, and why 3rd parties have largely abandoned it. The Wii doesn't meet the technical profile of the 360 and PS3, making porting difficult, and the non-traditional control system bundled in the box (you have to buy Classic or GC controllers separately!) is ill-suited for many traditional game genres, including FPS which the Wii was supposedly going to revolutionize. And it's why I don't see an F-Zero game for the Wii, ever, because Nintendo wouldn't allow a half-baked version of Captain Falcon Racing on store shelves with their logo on it.
I want F-Zero HD or F-Zero 3D. I'd piss my pants if they announced either one of those.
 

m.i.s.

Banned
Amir0x said:
And then when developers tried making these new fucking games aimed at non-gamers and game haters, what happened? They sucked. They blew. They were terrible. Everyone agrees with this. Why? Because these companies don't make games like this. It's not in their DNA. And they shouldn't have to compromise their vision because Nintendo wanted to utilize technology from 1981 and market the platform to Aunt Gertrude who made fun of you when you played SMB3 in your underwear. And this isn't just some whimpering gut shot salute to my graphics whorism, it has a practical purpose too: it highlights ANOTHER problem Nintendo had by going the route they did and underpowering their platform so. Ports. Good ports. Because of the nature of the system, ports are significantly more expensive to do from PS3-360 to Wii. You pretty much have to make a game completely unique for the ground up on Wii. That eliminates one of the biggest ways developer's have to cushion risk. That is also Nintendo's fault.

Uh-uh!!

You know, when moderators come in it's usually when a thread has gone to pot, but in this case the inverse is true!! :D :D

Less heat, more light.
 
ElFly said:
To say that nintendo should make games in genres that third parties don't cover, is to ask for trouble. Third parties are stupid sheep, and have imitated nintendo every step of the way.

Errr, that's why a key part of that strategy is to partner up with key third-parties early on and incentivize them to develop games in those genres early on.

3PPs don't "copy" what's successful because they're sheep, they do it because avoiding excessive risks is part of how they stay open and selling into a proven market is much safer than trying to create one. That's why it makes sense to subsidize the early games that break open new markets (co-market or co-publish that first SE RPG, that first Capcom action game, that first fighter or third-person adventure or what have you) and then let other publishers copy those proven successes.
 
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