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Lightning Returns Gamescom trailer

Eh, I'll still buy and play it just because I've already played the other two, might as well see the story through but I'll wait until it's discounted...but I got to admit that Moogle village is looking pretty spiffy.
 
Have FFXIII supporters really praised Toriyama/ Watanabe's writing though? I think most people agree he isn't the greatest dialogue writer and is a victim of the tell-not-show writing philosophy.

I think they don't necessarily like it but don't really care either way. "It's FF. Doesn't need to make sense".

All that jazz.

They mainly want to see how the story unfolds regardless of how bad it is.
 
Have FFXIII supporters really praised Toriyama/ Watanabe's writing though? I think most people agree he isn't the greatest dialogue writer and is a victim of the tell-not-show writing philosophy.

I always assumed they did? But I guess my assumptions this time around were wrong I guess...

FINAL FANTASY has always been about the story and the adventure/experience for me...
 
Have FFXIII supporters really praised Toriyama/ Watanabe's writing though? I think most people agree he isn't the greatest dialogue writer and is a victim of the tell-not-show writing philosophy.

Yes...yes they have.

I'm pretty sure you have been there to see it as well.
 
I have a friend whose favourite FFs are these two games, and he loves Toriyama's/Watanabe's writing, and loves the "tell-not-show" position they've taken. Mind you, he's older and doesn't play a lot of games, has a kid, doesn't have a lot of time to play games in general, so it was more like a popcorn flick for him. A good popcorn flick for him, anyway.

(He's the one who roped me in to doing the FF13 plat run with him.)

So, yes, it's entirely possible to like the writing in these games as well.
 
That open world reminded me of the one shown in the old Versus XIII gameplay demo a couple years ago. It has the same barren look. Reused assets from the old build?
 
Have FFXIII supporters really praised Toriyama/ Watanabe's writing though? I think most people agree he isn't the greatest dialogue writer and is a victim of the tell-not-show writing philosophy.

I think Perfo has before.

Personally, I wouldn't have much of a problem with Toriyama/Watanabe's writing failing in one area if it was well done in another. They can make very imaginative settings, but almost always fails to really connect the dots in any logical or coherent fashion in terms of the plot. It really just seems like when something doesn't fit and they write themselves into a corner, they take the cop-out method ("because paradoxes, so don't think about it" or if the LR trailers are any indication, "because chaos") instead of actually taking the time to go back and make things fit.

The dialogue is more disappointing for me; I don't know if it's just awkward translation or the fact that the source material is not any better, I really don't. But sometimes listening to these trailers/viewing scenes from other games they have worked on, it just blows my mind that a team can write such consistently inhuman, awkward, and stilted dialogue and no one can offer any effective constructive criticism high up, or that they don't show a single ounce of improvement between titles in this area.
 
I think Perfo has before.

Personally, I wouldn't have much of a problem with Toriyama/Watanabe's writing failing in one area if it was well done in another. They can make very imaginative settings, but almost always fails to really connect the dots in any logical or coherent fashion in terms of the plot. It really just seems like when something doesn't fit and they write themselves into a corner, they take the cop-out method ("because paradoxes, so don't think about it" or if the LR trailers are any indication, "because chaos") instead of actually taking the time to go back and make things fit.

The dialogue is more disappointing for me; I don't know if it's just awkward translation or the fact that the source material is not any better, I really don't. But sometimes listening to these trailers/viewing scenes from other games they have worked on, it just blows my mind that a team can write such consistently inhuman, awkward, and stilted dialogue and no one can offer any effective constructive criticism high up, or that they don't show a single ounce of improvement between titles in this area.

I once spoke with someone at SE in localization about this. They basically said there's really no helping the script based on the original material. It sounds just as bad in Japanese, if that's what you're wondering.
 
I once spoke with someone at SE in localization about this. They basically said there's really no helping the script based on the original material. It sounds just as bad in Japanese, if that's what you're wondering.

That's... really disappointing. I think it was either on GAF or Something Awful where some posters wondered what could have become of the XIII series' script if another translator like Alexander Smith was at the helm. But now I think there is only so much one can do with a bad original script.
 
I always wondered if the Japanese fan base had any vocal issues with the dialogue in the games.

That's... really disappointing. I think it was either on GAF or Something Awful where some posters wondered what could have become of the XIII series' script if another translator like Alexander Smith was at the helm. But now I think there is only so much one can do with a bad original script.

Yeah, that was me. I honestly think many on this board given full access to the storyline background could have done a better job adapting the game for western audiences. So many things could be fixed with an extra sentence of exposition or sharper dialogue.
 
I say start with Final Fantasy X.
People like the battle system for that game, and I think it represents a mix of old and new as Square was at the peak of their power at that time while focusing on the modern cinematic approach.

10 it is! I'll definitely pick that up on the vita :) Thanks for the suggestion.
 
Mhmm! Just ignore the shoddy voice acting when you do get it...voice acting is definitely better now.

I thought the voice acting was well done in that game. :/

Everyone makes fun of the awkward laughing scene but in the moment it made sense. I think it was meant to be an awkward/goofy moment because everything the entire party experience up until that point was so heavy and serious that they needed to "laugh" it off even though both characters were clearly faking it.

All in all I thought FFX was solid/good in the voice acting department.
 
That open world reminded me of the one shown in the old Versus XIII gameplay demo a couple years ago. It has the same barren look. Reused assets from the old build?

I remember when I first saw LR was more action packed and had larger areas, I was like, did they just murder Versus and use it's parts to make LR!? Though I guess it looks fairly different now, I am sure some of the influence came from Versus, probably.

I admit I've played terrible RPGs for combat before, like SO4 and Tales of Graces, and this can't be worse than those, so I will probably still get LR down the line assuming the combat is fun at least. Maybe for like $10.
 
Heartbroken lover pleading to be taken back (climax rant crap);
We need people who take issue with some aspects of the game in threads, I don't want to see no criticism whatsoever. Just keep it in perspective, stop peeling one negative aspect and resist anything remotely nice to say - like everytime. Human social shit allows people to say 'positive' things with next to no fuss (for the most part unless it's ridiculous), but a negative outlook should be within reason, explained, not a short one-line bait and hopefully not too aggressive, it's the easiest way to keep everyone happy. The problem is extremes and completely ejecting yourselves isn't the answer if you still have an interest in the game.

Just look at my posts about Resident Evil, the FFXV jPop boyband or Pacific Rim (I exploded on that one actually), we all do this stuff to a degree, but I think the it's just magnified by the fact there's a new LR thread every few weeks for the past 9 months or as long as I can remember all of which mostly end up being the same when it attracts traffic and of course the bad taste of FFXIII~ for many of you doesn't help. Just get it out of your system once or twice if you haven't already and then back to the reality for the rest - the game is a game that will be released and you are interested for various reasons while disliking certain factors. If you're sure you're not interested AT ALL, then resist temptation of course.

<3

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Cannot unhear fuckball no matter how many times I try. Load the video and press 9. There's no 'zzzz' in there from what I can hear even when trying my hardest I listen but accents and such I guess.
--
Laughing scene from FFX is taken out of context so often I want to kill somone. For standards at the time in English dubbing of Japanese games etc, FFX is more than serviceable and still is. I played with the JP audio track in my playthrough recently, was funny hearing Hiroshi Kamiya in such a minor role because he was still smalltime.
 
The lighting system is a mess and makes the graphics look like a mess. I thought it would start looking more consistent by now.

My problem with the lightning system is not that it's a mess .. My problem , especially is that some areas are great , and others aren't . Don't get me wrong but that was in ff13-2 too , some areas were excellent , while some others were "bland" . ( augusta tower was bad , acdemia was great )

LR seems to follow the same route from the current screens. i can see that the moogle village seems to be quite good , but i can't help to see the main town and how "flat" it looks.

I honnestly can't wait to play this game because i think it does a lot of things rights but also miss so many opportunities.
 
If you just follow the points of interests of the story and simplify those points, it's pretty easy to ignore the bloat and unnecessary parts that just serve to bog things down. That's how I did it. I just didn't really think about the story too deeply.
 
Execution of gameplay mechanics is much improved. However overall storytelling and well written characters and the setting following pre-set rules(that are broken with little consequence) takes a nosedive each time.

There is no defending that. Or I'm living in a paradox. Or Etro did it.
Well, yeah, XIII-2 was a mess as far as the story being consistent with FFXIII goes (and most other ways too, storytelling-wise), though I still think that it did some things decently well & better than FFXIII, as far as Toriyama's stories go (Noel and the villain & his motivations, the ending at least on an idea level, I like when everything goes to the shitter).
 
I have no problem admitting that I am not completely in love with Toriyama and Watanabe's writing. Its not the best I've seen, its not the worst I've seen. Its average, but enjoyable. For me, that is. It helps that they created a character I like so much, but the flaws in the story presentation are there for everyone to see in XIII and partially in XIII-2. I always said that for a complete understanding of the plot (mainly in XIII) you would probably have to read all the datalog and the side stories they released via another medium (books).

There is no denying it was a bad idea to cut the main aspects of the story into several pieces and make the fan have to run after these instead of having it all in the game itself. Still, I reckon that even if you didn't follow all these extra tidbits you can still have an overall view of what the game is talking about. Its not a complete clusterfuck outside of the weird and sudden cryptic nomenclature like l'cie and fal'cie. But you get used to it eventually.

Fuzzball. But the voice direction is so bad it could be either or at this point.

Your new avatar is much better than the old one btw.
 
Cannot unhear fuckball no matter how many times I try. Load the video and press 9. There's no 'zzzz' in there from what I can hear even when trying my hardest I listen but accents and such I guess.

I can't for the life of me see where people are getting fuzzball.

But I can hear both "fluffball" and "fuckball", depending on which one I'm expecting to hear. It's actually pretty cool, being able to hear it differently depending on what I'm thinking.

That said, we all know which one is canon.

#teamfuckball
 
That's not a screenshot. That's concept art.

Also that's not one of the "screenshots" in the article.



Really bro? Really? Are you seriously comparing 500 years to 60 hours? Are you seriously comparing one game not changing attire to multiple games not changing attire?

Okay. Just wanted to make sure we are on the same page.
Also, I think regarding the first game(in particular), the characters were on the run. It's made much more a point than in most other RPGs. Where are they going to get new clothes from? I mean, if they could, they would, wouldn't they? Er... okay, I think I just realized that opened up a derpy moment with the game. If they could, they WOULD because why would anybody on the run dress to "stand out"? I guess that kinda makes sense... maybe they were just victims of circumstance. It's not like Lighting or Snow know how to skin monsters and tan their hides to make new clothing. I'm sure the fal'Cie create clothes, as well as a lot of their other necessities.

I think I just uncovered a derpy plot hole in a lot of JRPG games(FF ESPECIALLY) where certain characters on the run from a empire/government continue to wear their uniforms of employment(in which they were originally employed by said empire/government), which doesn't make sense. If they are looking for an ex-employee, wouldn't wearing the uniform be a dead giveaway? And I'm not ragging on just Lightning. By some stretch, I can understand her lack of clothing change(on the run). Cloud, on the other hand, has an ample opportunity to change clothes at the various towns he visits. Even though I think Cloud's costume is badass, it's still kinda derpy. I guess you shouldn't think of these things too much.

Umm, most RPG quests take place over weeks, months, and even years. Did you really think I meant a literal 60 hours...? Zidane and Tidus never changed their clothes either!

Zidane was in a similar situation like the FFXIII(on the run a lot, but not AS much). He DID actually dress in different costumes depending on the situation(dressed as the Pluto Knight) to sneak into the castle. Tidus, well, he was just a jackass. I mean, he has not fashion sense, so I figured he also had no sense to know when to actually CHANGE his clothing. Anyways, he probably smells like a fish.

Ninja, are you going to start complaining about how characters don't use the bathroom? Because complaining about how a character doesn't change clothing is about as silly.

And Sazh has a good outfit. Be happy. Fang has a good outfit. Be happy. Poor Lightning doesn't have a single decent looking outfit besides the military-esque outfit.
I agree, Sazh and Fang do have great costumes. I don't think that's the point, though. Even Vaan and Penelo got an eventual costume change, as did the cast of FFIV and FFVII(hell, I think Yuffie even got a new costume for every installment of the FFVII Compelation, FFVII, AC, BC, CC, and DoC). But yeah, it's not about them already having good costumes. If that was the case, Cloud would've stayed looking the same in AC(his original costume was WAY better than his new one). I think it's about changing things up. This team has shown they actually have no qualms giving new costumes to characters, just SOME characters. Why not all? I'd welcome that fully! New installment, new duds! Sometimes change is good.
 
SE needs to release videos showing more of the mechanics of the game like how quests work, time management, the abilities, customization etc. and not just HUD less trailers so we can have more to discus and speculate.
They'll start the hype machine proper at TGS like they always do with games that have a late year release. After they are done, you will know everything about the game, even the final twist and most of the ending CGI animation even before having played the game.
 
I like what I'm seeing

LIGHTNING_RETURNS_FFXIII_Aug_S.jpg

LIGHTNING_RETURNS_FFXIII_Aug_J.jpg

LIGHTNING_RETURNS_FFXIII_Aug_M.jpg


http://www.finalfantasy.net/lrff13/lightning-returns-gamescom-trailer/
 
I cringed at snow & lighting dialogue scene, was it intended to make me cringe? am not sure.

sazh just can't catch break square keep dragging his son well being into these games.
 
Those screenshots definitely look better than the garbage ones we've been getting recently. I still think that Lumina or w/e her name's face is stupidly weird.
 
what is the next rpg in the calendar? LR is gonna take a while to get here
3DS - Etrian Odyssey Untold: The Millenium Girl (Oct)
Vita - Merurururururu Plus (Sept 3) / Dragon Fantasy Book II (Sept 10)
PS3 - Final Fantasy XIV (next week) / Kingdom Hearts HD (Sept 10) / Dragon Fantasy Book II (Sept 10)

Of course, you could be like me and play Dream Team right now. >.> (And I'm finishing off SMT4 right now.)

Honestly, I'm more looking forward to the deluge of platformers we're going to get in the next quarter.
 
Why did this thread get locked for a minute? What's going on?
 
You guys have been saying this since last year and it hasn't changed. Development is wrapping up now. They don't have time to "fix" it. This game isn't ready for release. It's being rushed and pushed by the Kitase/Toriyama tag team.

ROFL. I don't think we played the same game.

Not every game gets 8+ years of development.
 
More from Abe and Toriyama:

Lightning Returns: a more vulnerable heroine running out of time

Game design director Yuji Abe believes the Lightning players control in Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy 13 has become more vulnerable, being deeply affected by the great losses plaguing her past.

Abe shared with Polygon the reasoning of director Motomu Toriyama: this woman, less rough and stoic than her previous two game appearances, has already begun to crack under the weight of sorrow, anger and her own great burden of saving the world.

"If you feel that new Lightning is slightly less masculine, or she’s a little bit more girly, it’s because of two reasons: I think in Lightning Returns, we want to depict her in different lights, not just as one single character behaving the same way all the way through [the Final Fantasy 13 games],” Abe said. “We get to see her and experience different sides and elements of her, maybe one of them being fairly feminine and girly.

"The other reason I can’t get very much into without spoiling the story, but inLightning Returns’ story, Lightning has lost a lot of valuable things in her life,” he added. “That sense of loss might come across here as a kind of vulnerable part of her character. Maybe that’s why you could think she seems a bit more feminine.”

Time — and no one seems to have enough of it — is a key theme of the Final Fantasy 13trilogy. In the first title, there is only so much time a person has between being branded as a l’Cie and having to complete the task assigned to them; they can either do a demigod’s wishes and have their bodies turned to crystal, or turn into an unfeeling creature doomed to walk the earth for eternity. In Final Fantasy 13-2, Lightning’s younger sister Serah travels through time searching for a way to help her, defying time and space to set things right. Lightning Returns follows our heroine on a 13-day quest to save the world, and completing the game’s various missions can add or subtract to that timeframe.

"We brought in the element of resource control early on," Abe said, noting they applied the idea to time. "Toriyama decided the game would be world-driven and we sat down to figure out how to best achieve that. And I said, ‘If it’s world-driven, that sort of relates to the idea of running out of time, and how much money you have and what you can and cannot do in any given time. That’s how the idea started. We want to give the player the opportunity to think about their limited resources and try to make the best of those intimate resources. So we applied that to the [game’s time.]"

Abe also suggested that Toriyama’s work on Final Fantasy 10-2 and its well-received dressphere mechanics — an outfit-based job class system that allowed players to switch classes at will — may have had an influence in Lightning Returns' wardrobe-powered ability mechanics.

"We were very fond of the paradigm system from Final Fantasy 13, and we wanted to stick with it,” he said. “Obviously Final Fantasy is all about [the job classes.] When you switch to another persona, that change should be reflected visually in what she wears. So that’s the idea that Toriyama came up with — he was director of 10-2, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he was inspired by [his work on 10-2] in making Lighting Returns.”

Abe added that the game’s combat mechanics were refined to allow players to move around screen during battle and offer more freedom to dodge, block and attack.

"We really wanted to change the mechanics and we wanted to do a new battle system," he said. "We tried a new battle system with 13, giving [players] two AI companions. But that was a complicated system for users in Japan, it was difficult to understand how it works and they didn’t really find the best way to be with it. So we just wanted to simplify it and let players enjoy it more intuitively without worrying how it works.”
 
The Paradigm system was complicated for Japan? Ugh

Anyway

Translated Dengeki Report

source; http://www.siliconera.com/2013/08/2...ns-final-fantasy-xiii-will-be-a-unique-place/

How Each Continent In Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII Will Be A Unique Place

c20130816_filename_008_cs1w1_720x_thumb.jpg

In an earlier report, we discussed how Square Enix talked about Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII’s world-driven concept, featuring four different continents with their distinct characteristics. Dengeki recently caught up with Square Enix staff members, to discuss the thoughts that went into the creation of the four continents in Luxerion and Yusnaan. Dengeki starts the interview by asking Kazuyuki Shindo, unit leader of all continents, about the responsibilities he took on during development.

“I was in charge of the level design, placement of the citizens and more. Also, things such as where the battles will occur,” answers Shindo. “Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy has the four continents of Luxerion, Yusnaan, Dead Dunes, and The Wildlands. At first, director Toriyama had told us that as long as we made Luxerion into a religious city with a gothic base as its main element, the rest was up to us.” “After advancing through a certain degree of production, we would talk to Toriyama, then with design director Yuji Abe about how to shape up the world-driven elements.” Dengeki then asks about the experience of working with Toriyama and Abe, who often gave the developers very detailed instructions.

“Around May of last year, the unit leaders including Masahiro Ishihara and I, gathered and spoke with Abe about the general world-driven concept, and with Toriyama about the image of all the continents,” says Shindo. “Then about a month ago, we gathered various types of staff members, not limited to the planning staff, and discussed various ideas and concepts. From there, each unit talked about what they’d like to do for their own cities, and then it was like a competition of content for all four continents.”

The above images shows the Divine City of Light, Luxerion, on the left; and the City of Revelry, Yusnaan, to the right. As you can see, both cities are quite different in appearance, which is the result of having different units for the four continents of Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII. The Yusnaan unit leader shares more on the subject. “Basically, we were all in individually in charge and were able to make our own continents,” reiterates Masahira Ishihara, who led development of Yusnaan.

“However, Shindo needed to be thorough at all times, otherwise the the material could have overlapped. That’s where the unit leaders spoke amongst themselves, so if Yusnaan focused more on the night, they would think about making another continent focus more on the daytime, and they were able to put in the energy to split things up and continue progressing.” According to Shindo, it was Toriyama that gave instructions for each continent to have its own theme. The concepts he had were: a mystery-suspense feel for Luxerion, a spy theme for Yusnaan, grand nature for The Wildlands, and labyrinth exploring for the Dead Dunes. Ishihara adds, “Each continent’s introductions and endings were already decided, but the process and development in between weren’t, so it was up to each unit to decide on how to beef it up. The continent’s competition stage is the part that decided on those details.” Since Shindo and Ishihara were both unit leaders of their own continents, they take the occasion to share a few details on their respective work.

“The citizens of this city somehow know that there isn’t much time left. However, they don’t know when the end will arrive.” says Shindo, who led development of Luxerion, but also oversaw the other three continents. “In order to remind themselves about the remaining time, there are various clocks placed everywhere. Of course, the time indicated on the system’s top-right part of the screen is properly linked with it.” “Compared to other continents, Luxerion was made to be relatively basic,” continues Shindo. “As for Luxerion’s base, the standard evaluation included ideas such as ‘let’s add more trees,’ or ‘let’s take these elements out so we can bring out those characteristics better in the other cities’. Again, it is considered a religious city, but it’s also a business city, so you’ll see people walking around in suits.” Ishihara shares, “Lightning will be a spy in Yusnaan, and the story will be about infiltrating in the palace. There are guardrooms around the city, with guards anticipating Lightning’s infiltration, and they will attack her if she’s found. The time limit will be relatively tough here, and there will be various actions that are required; so in a way, this continent could be the most severe to play of all continents.”
 
I thought the voice acting was well done in that game. :/

Everyone makes fun of the awkward laughing scene but in the moment it made sense. I think it was meant to be an awkward/goofy moment because everything the entire party experience up until that point was so heavy and serious that they needed to "laugh" it off even though both characters were clearly faking it.

All in all I thought FFX was solid/good in the voice acting department.

Everyone either ignores that context or it goes over their head entirely.
 
Everyone either ignores that context or it goes over their head entirely.
Yeah I've always said that the laughing scene remains one of my favorite scenes in the game. It was 100% supposed to sound weird and tacked on - you could even hear the "real" laughter from Yuna/Tidus once they've realized how silly it was. Even Wakka tells the two something like "I thought you two went crazy or something".

Great cutscene and I can't wait to experience it again, soon enough...
 
What if I hated all of ffxs stilted vice acting, not just the laughing scene which was obviously intentional (and still poorly done).
 
I'm actually starting to look forward to this, really like what they are doing with the costumes. Nice to see Fang as well.

Hopefully the hong kong version has subtitles like the other two did.

There's a dragoon armor in the game.

HNNNNNG
 
Yeah I've always said that the laughing scene remains one of my favorite scenes in the game. It was 100% supposed to sound weird and tacked on - you could even hear the "real" laughter from Yuna/Tidus once they've realized how silly it was. Even Wakka tells the two something like "I thought you two went crazy or something".

Great cutscene and I can't wait to experience it again, soon enough...

Exactly.
 
from: http://www.finalfantasy.net/xiv/collectors-catalog-samurai/

Collector’s Catalog: Way of the Samurai

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If you’re a fan in Japan anticipating Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, you’ll be able to choose from several different Samurai pre-order costumes from various retailers. By ordering through the official Japanese Square Enix e-Store, you can snag the Shogun outfit for Lightning.

Other outfits in this set of samurai gear include Furinkazan and Sohei Savior, available through different outlets. Details for how these outfits will become available for North American fans is not yet available, but we expect to see the specifics laid out later — including the possibility of the outfits being divvied up between retailers like Amazon, GameStop, and Best Buy.

By pre-ordering the game, you’ll be able to snag a SOLDIER Outfit and Buster Sword from Final Fantasy VII, which will enable Lightning to pull off some of Cloud’s Limit Break abilities in battle. The game’s victory jingle will replace the Lightning Returns one at the end of battle.
 
ZAN... DATSU!!!!!
 
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