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Limited Run Games - Putting digital games into your hands

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Shizuka

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May 28, 2014
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Would you guys ever consider doing 360 games? Or is it only going to be current gen stuff
They've mentioned before that they won't do Nintendo and Microsoft for the time being because of minimum limited print copies being too high.
 

Clov

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Feb 5, 2013
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VA-11 HALL-A is a game we're really hoping to publish. They've shown interest in a physical edition so we're crossing our fingers that it is something we'll be able to help out with.
That's really great news! I'd love to be able to buy a cart of it on my Vita!
 
Would you guys ever consider doing 360 games? Or is it only going to be current gen stuff
Unfortunately as Shizuka pointed out Microsoft's minimum order quantities are pretty nuts compared to Sony's. Not only that but they've got a lot of roadblocks in place to stop smaller publishers from pursuing physical runs. If things change on both of those fronts, we won't hesitate to look towards 360 and Xbox One publishing.
 

NoFaceNico

Banned
Sep 8, 2014
3,136
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I think you guys are going about this whole physical indie game release thing all wrong, using existing platforms is too accessible. What you need to do is make your own console. Use someone else's shell, like the Atari Lynx or something. Then charge $350 for it, you can charge more for special colors too. Don't worry, we don't need to see a running prototype yet, just take my money.



Nah, jk. I think you guys tackled the digital-only problem brilliantly and it might force me to finally go out and buy a Vita.

But one thing I don't get is that if Sony's minimum order quantities are as low as 1500, then why don't these indie studios just do limited print runs themselves? Do they just not want to or don't have the funds front the cost?
 
I think you guys are going about this whole physical indie game release thing all wrong, using existing platforms is too accessible. What you need to do is make your own console. Use someone else's shell, like the Atari Lynx or something. Then charge $350 for it, you can charge more for special colors too. Don't worry, we don't need to see a running prototype yet, just take my money.



Nah, jk. I think you guys tackled the digital-only problem brilliantly and it might force me to finally go out and buy a Vita.

But one thing I don't get is that if Sony's minimum order quantities are as low as 1500, then why don't these indie studios just do limited print runs themselves? Do they just not want to or don't have the funds front the cost?
We were actually in the process of buying up Tiger's remaining Game.com units to convert into our own console. Once we saw the VGS we just quietly backed out of the deal.

Regarding why other developers don't do this themselves, there's a lot of reasons:

1) It took at least a full month of devoted work to see the physical release of Breach & Clear through. The process involved speaking with no less than 12 (!) different people at Sony and required getting access to and learning how to navigate a lot of different sites. Most dev teams don't have anyone that could devote a full month of time to a physical release.

2) You have to buy at least $500 worth of Helvetica fonts. I'm not kidding. Sony uses an absurd number of variants of Helvetica on their packaging and in order to be approved you need those exact variants. They aren't cheap. This is an easy thing for a publisher that will use those fonts several times to swallow - but for a dev who will use them once, $500 for Helvetica fonts is a tough pill to swallow.

3) You have to buy all your inventory up-front. We're talking at least $20,000 down. That's scary for most developers to bite off not knowing if anyone will buy their release or not.

4) No established customer base means you could get stuck with hundreds or thousands of unsold games. Granted, we have no existing customer base, but we're working to build one. That's more time the devs would have to devote on top of the month it took to produce the physical run.

5) Fulfillment is not easy. No dev wants to sit around stuffing envelopes and mailing them out.

Limited Run Games finances the entire print run and oversees the production from start to finish. The developer does not have to deal with getting packaging approved and they do not need to deal with product ordering. We also warehouse inventory and fulfill it when customers order. In addition, we will market their game to our customer base. This takes all the financial risk (and most of the work) off of their shoulders. In the end, once we've gotten back what we spent on production, we take the same revenue split as Steam or any other digital distribution platform. That's nothing for the amount of risk we assume and the amount of work we undertake in producing and fulfilling the game.

We're trying hard to make doing physical releases a no-brainer because we honestly just want more games to exist to be held, owned, and cherished.
 

KiraXD

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Nov 8, 2007
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VA-11 HALL-A is a game we're really hoping to publish. They've shown interest in a physical edition so we're crossing our fingers that it is something we'll be able to help out with.
Man... Airship Syndicate recently funded Battle Chasers Nightwar is prime for a physical... ive asked them if they are considering physical release and they arent sure yet... connect with them and get that game in my hands!
 

Baliis

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Aug 2, 2013
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VA-11 HALL-A is a game we're really hoping to publish. They've shown interest in a physical edition so we're crossing our fingers that it is something we'll be able to help out with.
Ohh def a game I'd be interested in, been on my radar for a while
 

Chacranajxy

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Oct 13, 2008
17,536
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We're trying hard to make doing physical releases a no-brainer because we honestly just want more games to exist to be held, owned, and cherished.
Well, you guys are pretty cool.


When can we expect more details on the initial lineup of games you'll be publishing?
 

Hikami

Member
May 19, 2014
4,193
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VA-11 HALL-A is a game we're really hoping to publish. They've shown interest in a physical edition so we're crossing our fingers that it is something we'll be able to help out with.
Now you've got my hopes up :p

Been anticipating this game for so long, a physical copy would be amazing.
 

Ventara

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Mar 2, 2014
7,385
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Just saw this thread, and wow! I think this is amazing! As long as shipping to Canada isn't crazy, I'm in. Love collecting physical games for my Vita.
 
Well, you guys are pretty cool.


When can we expect more details on the initial lineup of games you'll be publishing?
We're leaving announcements up to the individual developers, so they're going to roll out at a somewhat inconsistent rate. Our first game outside of Breach & Clear and Saturday Morning RPG will likely be announced November or December. Again, that'd hinge on the developer feeling ready to break the news.
 
If you are shipping to Turkey, I think you've got a customer.
We are - there's currently no restrictions on where we are shipping. Things may change for future releases if we see a high enough volume of lost packages to any given country. I've been selling games since 2007 and have never had issues shipping to anywhere but Italy, so there's a good chance that the vast majority of countries will continue to be served by us.
 

dolabla

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Oct 9, 2013
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Wow, this is awesome! I will definitely try to collect as many as possible. I personally would like to see Rocket League and Grim Fandango (PS4 and Vita if possible).
 

KAKYBAC

Neo Member
Jan 26, 2015
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Would love to see games such as Papers, Please in a pseudo passport book/game box

Always thought that the winners of IGF's Seamus McNally prize should be given a physical release schedule!
 
VA-11 HALL-A would be amazing. Really cool what you all are doing, and holy buckets at 500 dollars for fonts.
A pretty boring $500 of fonts at that! I don't think a few months ago I would have ever imagined that I'd own over sixty mildly different versions of Helvetica. Not all of those are used on the packaging - you just end up with way more than you need in order to get the ten to fifteen flavors used on the packaging.
 

AtomskEater

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Oct 6, 2007
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Good to see VA-11 HALL-A is being talked about! I'm going to throw Transistor out there and leave it at that because otherwise it'd turn into a list of games I want but haven't gotten yet because I don't have a PS4.
 

bmcphail2008

Member
Sep 1, 2010
222
1
530
Los Angeles, CA
Gamer's Edition tried to get a Papers. Please physical set off the ground, but at $70 not enough people bit (https://www.gamersedition.com/product/papers-please).
In fairness, they didn't even include a copy of the game. They also failed to get Kerbal funded and I know I didn't support it because they wouldn't provide a DRM free physical copy of the game. There's no point in doing collector's editions without a copy of the game that is still gonna work a few years down the road.
 
In fairness, they didn't even include a copy of the game. They also failed to get Kerbal funded and I know I didn't support it because they wouldn't provide a DRM free physical copy of the game. There's no point in doing collector's editions without a copy of the game that is still gonna work a few years down the road.
Really? Wow, that makes no sense! I never bothered to look because I just assumed the game was included. Even Indiebox includes a DRM free copy of each game and their boxes can be had for as little as $20 a month. I can't imagine spending $70/$85 and not getting a copy of the actual game.
 

NinjamicWZ

Banned
Jul 30, 2010
9,354
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1) It took at least a full month of devoted work to see the physical release of Breach & Clear through. The process involved speaking with no less than 12 (!) different people at Sony and required getting access to and learning how to navigate a lot of different sites. Most dev teams don't have anyone that could devote a full month of time to a physical release.

2) You have to buy at least $500 worth of Helvetica fonts. I'm not kidding. Sony uses an absurd number of variants of Helvetica on their packaging and in order to be approved you need those exact variants. They aren't cheap. This is an easy thing for a publisher that will use those fonts several times to swallow - but for a dev who will use them once, $500 for Helvetica fonts is a tough pill to swallow.

3) You have to buy all your inventory up-front. We're talking at least $20,000 down. That's scary for most developers to bite off not knowing if anyone will buy their release or not.

4) No established customer base means you could get stuck with hundreds or thousands of unsold games. Granted, we have no existing customer base, but we're working to build one. That's more time the devs would have to devote on top of the month it took to produce the physical run.

5) Fulfillment is not easy. No dev wants to sit around stuffing envelopes and mailing them out.
That's really enlightening. It would seem like something platform holders should have shouldered in order to make things easier, even before digital availability. Something that we might look back on the same way as extremely high royalty fees for older consoles.
 
That's really enlightening. It would seem like something platform holders should have shouldered in order to make things easier, even before digital availability. Something that we might look back on the same way as extremely high royalty fees for older consoles.
To be fair, I can't think of a way around the upfront costs since they'd need payment before they could ship product to the devs. Shouldering those costs and the associated risks are a huge part of what we offer. Distribution and fulfillment would also still be an issue even with an easier system in place for ordering.

The process of ordering could definitely be streamlined but I still think Sony is leaps and bounds ahead of the other guys.

I guess the sentiment is that digital works so why invest in making physical ordering easier?

In any case, we're here to to simplify the whole process for any and all devs.
 

Shizuka

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May 28, 2014
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Can you confirm if the numbering of each game will be universal, across platforms, or if they'll be broke down by platforms, like a numbering for Vita games and another for PS4 games?
 
Can you confirm if the numbering of each game will be universal, across platforms, or if they'll be broke down by platforms, like a numbering for Vita games and another for PS4 games?
We had been planning to do universal numbering but per platform numbering has been requested enough times that we're going to shift to that instead. We might end up doing a hybrid where the spines are numbered per platform but the backs number everything as a singular series. We're still discussing this to come up with something that will work for everyone.
 

hawk2025

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Jan 20, 2013
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We had been planning to do universal numbering but per platform numbering has been requested enough times that we're going to shift to that instead. We might end up doing a hybrid where the spines are numbered per platform but the backs number everything as a singular series. We're still discussing this to come up with something that will work for everyone.
Fantastic.

Individual per-platform + a more "universal" catalog number is the way to go IMO, and should please both camps. People can pick and choose their platforms if they want a complete collection, or just get a full collection altogether of the "full" catalog :)
 
Oct 17, 2005
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Fantastic.

Individual per-platform + a more "universal" catalog number is the way to go IMO, and should please both camps. People can pick and choose their platforms if they want a complete collection, or just get a full collection altogether of the "full" catalog :)

I love this idea. :)
 
Sounds like the hybrid system is what we'll pursue then! The only side effect here is that B&C will lack spine numbering. Future releases will all contain a uniform per-platform spine number. We'll also continue the collection numbering on the back of the box.
 

Shizuka

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May 28, 2014
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Sounds like the hybrid system is what we'll pursue then! The only side effect here is that B&C will lack spine numbering. Future releases will all contain a uniform per-platform spine number. We'll also continue the collection numbering on the back of the box.
That sounds great to me, no complaints there. Thanks for taking all this feedback and turning it into a labor of love from you guys and us fans!
 

SigSig

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Aug 31, 2013
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This is all kinds of fantastic! Is Yiik on your radar? Also, Fez would be a dream come true.
I hope I won't miss any D:
 

Yoshi

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May 4, 2005
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Glad everyone is excited!

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me!
Really great stuff, as a lover of physical media I'm glad a company like yours exists.

Also as someone developing my own game right now, it's giving a huge motivational push to know that if I do well there might be a chance to have a small physical run of the game if the game ends up well.
 
Really great stuff, as a lover of physical media I'm glad a company like yours exists.

Also as someone developing my own game right now, it's giving a huge motivational push to know that if I do well there might be a chance to have a small physical run of the game if the game ends up well.
Thanks for the support! Definitely hit us up when you are further along in development so we can take a look.

All I know is that my wallet is in the corner crying, this could get very messy for my bank account with all these "potential planned" releases.
I'm sorry! :D I know how you feel, I get like that with certain releases.

I will definitely support this!

For future releases I'm hoping for La Mulana EX, Axiom Verge and Cosmic Star Heroine!
Those are on our list of potential games!
 
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