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LINCOLN |OT| (dir. Spielberg; Daniel Day-Lewis)

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ConfusingJazz said:
BZZT!

While 1964 is the turning point of Southern politics, it was most definitely not solidly Republican. Hell, they all went for Carter in 1976.

The end of the traditional Democratic South was 1994, when the last of the New Deal Democrats had lost their power.
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Not sure I completely agree with this. The south went democrat in 1976 because Jimmy Carter was a son of the south; likewise Clinton managed to win much of the south for similar reasons, although things reversed a bit in his re-election bid.

Southerners greatly benefited from government money for much of the early 20th century, and thus voted democrat. Civil rights caused many to become republicans, but years like 1976 and 1992 showed that many of those voters were more than willing to support the democrat party if they trusted the candidate (Carter and Clinton were southern governors). Yet Carter lost the south in 1980, and Clinton won less southern states in 1996 than he did in 1992.
 
Can't wait for this to come to Blu-Ray so I can have a sick Gangs of New York, Lincoln, There Will be Blood marathon. Maybe throw a little Assassination of Jesse James in there too even though it is sans DDL.
 
PhoenixDark said:
Not sure I completely agree with this. The south went democrat in 1976 because Jimmy Carter was a son of the south; likewise Clinton managed to win much of the south for similar reasons, although things reversed a bit in his re-election bid.

Southerners greatly benefited from government money for much of the early 20th century, and thus voted democrat. Civil rights caused many to become republicans, but years like 1976 and 1992 showed that many of those voters were more than willing to support the democrat party if they trusted the candidate (Carter and Clinton were southern governors). Yet Carter lost the south in 1980, and Clinton won less southern states in 1996 than he did in 1992.
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Yes, but southern legislatures like Texas were still dominated by the democrats. They didn't start to really flip until 1994. Hell, the Texas house didn't flip till 2002.
 
Expendable. said:
War Horse was a more well-rounded film than Lincoln, certainly. Cut out the boring family stuff and I'd give Lincoln the edge. You're splitting hairs though, they are both mid-level Spielberg.
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The boring family stuff? Yes, how dare they explore Lincoln's family issues in this film.
 
Draconian said:
The boring family stuff? Yes, how dare they explore Lincoln's family issues in this film.
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The way Spielberg handled it was drab and static, was bored stiff anytime Sally Field or JGL showed up. Of course it could have been made interesting, but his execution was far from it. One could easily tell he was much more interested in the political areas of the film and they were the strongest portions.
 
Expendable. said:
The way Spielberg handled it was drab and static, was bored stiff anytime Sally Field or JGL showed up. Of course it could have been made interesting, but his execution was far from it. One could easily tell he was much more interested in the political areas of the film and they were the strongest portions.
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The scene where Lincoln talks about hiding his grief after his son died was one of the highlights of the movie for me.
 
Expendable. said:
The way Spielberg handled it was drab and static, was bored stiff anytime Sally Field or JGL showed up. Of course it could have been made interesting, but his execution was far from it. One could easily tell he was much more interested in the political areas of the film and they were the strongest portions.
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Agree to disagree then. I thought the argument he had with Mary about their dead son and the scene where he and JGL go to visit the wounded soldiers were two of the best in the film.
 
I just saw this last night and overall I think it was a very strong film. I was fascinated by the political aspects of the movie, particularly Thaddeus Stevens. It always fascinates me when someone can be so forward and revolutionary in his thinking, especially when it goes against so much of what has been ingrained in society at the time. Also, I wasn't a huge fan of the family moments either, I just don't like Sally Fields that much but she was ok. The real meat and potatoes was the battle in the House. Also, the charismatic Democrat may have been an antagonist but he was a marvel to watch. To the historians out there, how accurate was the portrayal of the House being more a battle of wit and snide remarks, almost like a theatre? It seems so unruly but obviously very entertaining.
 
Draconian said:
Agree to disagree then. I thought the argument he had with Mary about their dead son and the scene where he and JGL go to visit the wounded soldiers were two of the best in the film.
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The part where
Robert sees the amputated legs getting dumped into the pit
got an audible collective gasp at my screening. That was a really effective scene.
 
Cool. Couldn't remember the name of the character. Looks we will be seeing a lot of him in The Hobbit movies over the next few years.
 
I really really really liked this movie. Definitely a high point (but not quite my favorite) of the year.

Could've done without the last 10 minutes after THE PERFECT SHOT but oh well.

What I was really impressed by was how Day-Lewis didn't totally dominate the entire film to the point of distraction (usually positive) like he tends to do. The whole film was almost this kind of exercise in restraint for everyone involved.
 
How did Lincoln feel about economic issues of his time besides slavery? I was sad to learn that Robert Lincoln was involved with the Pullman Car Company and even became its president.
 
Tommy Lee Jones stole every scene he was in, he was amazing. It disliked how every moment that Lincoln had was in the trailer but damn fine movie, well made, looked gorgeous and a great story. Though the climax was kinda dull the last 30 minutes could of had some work done.

Either way it was a great film though it felt like it was missing something. There were too many moments where some person would stand up and look at Lincoln as he'd walk away in astonishment, like "wow, that person is amazing"
 
Trurl said:
How did Lincoln feel about economic issues of his time besides slavery? I was sad to learn that Robert Lincoln was involved with the Pullman Car Company and even became its president.
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Historically, Lincoln and other former Whigs like Seward were generally high tariff men who wanted government funding for internal improvements. However, the Republican Party was not just former Whigs; its leadership was old largely Jacksonian Democrats who tended more toward limited intervention in the economy and free trade [e.g. Salmon Chase, Preston Blair, Hannibal Hamlin]. However, both factions agreed to bind around the question of slavery and not set a party policy on the rest--economics was effectively a conscience vote. [Eric Foner's Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men is the best treatment of the internal factions of Civil War era Republicanism.] In the years after Lincoln, the Jacksonian faction tended to win out in setting the party's direction, with the sole exception of tariffs.
 
Thanks for the response, DS-61-5. I came across that book by Foner while looking for his most recent book about Lincoln. I'll check it out.
 
According to Wikipedia, Lincoln "favored economic modernization in banking, protective tariffs to fund internal improvements including railroads, and espoused urbanization as well." Some of the bills he signed into law were designed to create a system of national banks, establish a national currency, provide government grants for agricultural colleges, and then of course there was the Homestead Act, which opened up federal land for settlers. Also of historical significance, Lincoln ushered in the nation's very first income tax. But the economic situation of the US in 1860 was entirely different from 1900, let alone today, so it's difficult to judge his economic stewardship against anything that Robert Lincoln did. The US of 1860 was still highly agrarian and a long way from being urbanized. The Pullman Car Company didn't even exist until 1862.
Trurl said:
Thanks for the response, DS-61-5. I came across that book by Foner while looking for his most recent book about Lincoln. I'll check it out.
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Speaking of The Fiery Trial, I would highly recommend it. I think it won the Pulitzer Prize.
 
I enjoyed. Complaints are the same. As long as it involved politics, I liked it. Well acted, nice speeches, etc. Some of the home stuff worked, a lot of it didn't.

I definitely see some nominations coming for both DDL and TLJ.
 
Saw Lincoln tonight, left a little disappointed. The film was very well made. I loved sets, costumes and acting but the whole failed to engage me at all. I found it to be very dry and ultimately less than the sum of it's parts.
 
Just saw this tonight. Great movie. When the credits came up, people started clapping. For reference, the last time I've experienced a spontaneous ovation at the movies was Jurassic Park. Felt good too, because I live in West Virginia/Civil War country near where every pickup waives the rebel flag and rednecks are still sore about losing the war. I live in the cool part of W.Va., though. I dare say I got misty eyed hearing people applaud Lincoln. I'd say it's pretty good too, because people here/where I grew up take the Civil War seriously. I grew up in Maryland near Sharpsburg and Antietam. For the last 10 years or so I've lived in West Virginia near Harpers Ferry. I've been to the National Historical park there too many times to count and was there during the 150th anniversary of John Brown's raid. I've witnessed the pilgrimage to the original site of Brown's fort when African Americans literally took their shoes off during the walk because it's considered hallowed ground. The courthouse I worked in for several years was where Brown was tried and sentenced to death. I've stood in the halls of Storer College and witnessed the anniversary of the Niagara Movement. Then there's Shepherdstown, which literally became a hospital for the wounded after Antietam and is across the river from Sharpsburg.
Basically, you can't throw a baseball where I live without hitting an important Civil War site.
Tommy Lee Jones was excellent, as was Lewis. I'm sure they'll probably get Oscar nods.
 
It felt unfocused. Or rather, it's so focused on the 13th amendment that it has no clue what to do with the other elements that were presented. It also suffers from being a bit too much of a play and not enough of a film (this is especially apparent in the interfamilial scenes where much is spoken but little is demonstrated about their relationships). DDL made outstanding work of what was given to him, but there just wasn't enough for him to do. The film only seemed sure of itself when inside the House of Representatives, finding poetry in the political chaos of the times. On top of all that, the "right side of history" stuff was laid on thicker than I even thought was possible. Really missed an opportunity to explore a tough angle. Williams's score felt cheesy during those moments too, but hey, he's 80. And yeah, ending was unnecessary.

On the bright side, the sets, costumes, makeup, cinematography, editing (apart from the end), dialogue & acting were all quite lovely. The cast was full of familiar faces (Pace, Spader, Goggins, Hawkes, Harris, Haley), but christ was JGL wasted.
 
Saw this Sunday evening but forgot to post impressions.

I can see why people might find it long boring and just not that interesting. And I get it too because basically the whole movie is centered around the 13th Amendment. Its hard to make an enjoyable movie out of that concept along. Sure the Civil War is taking place and there is the family drama in the background.

That all said, I really liked it. It just worked for me. I love history and the movie really transported me back. I loved the debates, the strategy by Lincoln, and the dialogue was great.

Wasn't out of the world one of the best Spielberg movies of all time but a solid movie about a topic that is hard to make interesting.
 
Amir0x said:
Was pleasantly surprised, expected to just want to rip it apart like most Historical movies. Spielberg had a perfect shot to end the film too, but he's always gonna run-on like his life depends on it. So much bs sentimentality.

And really, give Tommy Lee Jones the oscars. All the oscars, throughout time. Never thought Daniel Day would get stood up in a movie.
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just saw it and while I liked tlj - I felt underwhelmed by his performance - maybe because it was so hyped
Should still get a nomination though
But do not be fooled - this was ddl's movie - without him, it's mediocre
 
Saw the film today.

It's very easy to admire from afar, but hard to outright love while you're watching it.

Fine performances mostly, and certainly interesting, but you certainly have to adjust to the intelligence of the characters.

I need to see it again to form a better opinion.

I agree with others who said the ending could have occurred 15 minutes earlier than it did. It's like...we know what happened.
 
Just saw this movie tonight. Amazing acting by Daniel Day Lewis, Tommy Lee Jones, and that younger guy who was the main Democrat. I know way too little about American history so the politics and
backhanded, corrupt way he got votes for the 13th Amendment
were fascinating to me.
 
This was good, I understand some people thought it was too procedural and boring but I would have loved another hour of the boring stuff. JGL was terrible, as usual. I loved this kid in 3rd Rock from the Sun, why did he decide to go dramatic/leading man? I can never buy him in those roles.
 
You guys are crazy. Ending was classy as fuck. I'm not why anyone would expect a movie called Lincoln to end on a shot of Stevens.

Scene with Lincoln riding through that battlefield..taking in the deaths of all those men who died because of his decision to prolongue the war to pass the amendment..
Why would anyone want such a gut-wrenching scene cut from the film?
 
Secret_Riddle said:
You guys are crazy. Ending was classy as fuck. I'm not why anyone would expect a movie called Lincoln to end on a shot of Stevens.

Scene with Lincoln riding through that battlefield..taking in the deaths of all those men who'd died because of his decision to prolongue the war to pass the amendment..
Why would anyone want such a gut-wrenching scene cut from the film?
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Should have ended as he left the White House to go to the theater.
 
MrPink93485 said:
Should have ended as he left the White House to go to the theater.
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That would've been good as well, but I did enjoy them ending on a passage from one of his speeches. I like the idea of the film wrapping up with a speech that focuses on Lincoln's message, rather than some morbid "here comes the assassination" beat.
 
MrPink93485 said:
Should have ended as he left the White House to go to the theater.
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Only if they cut out the groan-worthy last line he gives. "I have to go now, but I wish I could stay" is about as subtle as a kick to the balls.
Spielberg just couldn't leave well enough alone, could he.
 
My father pointed out that the whole battle in the House explicitly happens before the inauguration, so there's no necessity to flash back to it -- you can just end the movie with the inaugural address, though you'd have to cut Lee's surrender. You can even show Booth if you really have to, since he was at the address. This seems like the best idea for a better ending I've heard yet.

Ridley327 said:
Only if they cut out the groan-worthy last line he gives. "I have to go now, but I wish I could stay" is about as subtle as a kick to the balls.
Spielberg just couldn't leave well enough alone, could he.
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In fairness, he really did say that right before he left.
 
I like Ta-Nehisi Coates's defense of the ending, in that the
1865 inaugural
"might be the most radical statement on race ever delivered by a president."
 
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