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[Krowley]

The ultimate example that i've played this generation is Maximo 1... Not sure about 2 since I've never played it, but maximo 1 is the closest i've ever seen to bringing the gameplay from 2d platformers into 3d.


It's also my favorite platformer of the generation. It's basicly Ghouls and ghosts in 3d... A bit easier, and the forumla is changed a little, but if you like that franchise, you should play the 3d incarnation.

Very challenging for a 3d platformer.

the best thing about maximo is that it rewards memorization in the same way that 2d platformers do. The enemies always pop up at the same time and in the same place so you can develop a memorized routine for going through the levels really fast. The levels are also all very linear... Point A to point B... There is no confusion and no wondering around. There is a bit of exploration available if you want to use it (hidden treasure chests in the levels and things like that) but it's not required.

I feel that this game has been forgotten. It's sort of underappreciated when you consider what an incredible achievment it represents. I never miss a chance to pimp it.

edit// and i wouldn't call psychonauts "linear".. There are levels that fall into this catagory, but other levels are wide open. The most defining thing about psychonauts is how different each level is.. It has different design phillosophy's and radically different gameplay from one level to the next...

 

[Ranger X]

The ultimate example that i've played this generation is Maximo 1... Not sure about 2 since I've never played it, but maximo 1 is the closest i've ever seen to bringing the gameplay from 2d platformers into 3d.


It's also my favorite platformer of the generation. It's basicly Ghouls and ghosts in 3d... A bit easier, and the forumla is changed a little, but if you like that franchise, you should play the 3d incarnation.

Very challenging for a 3d platformer.

the best thing about maximo is that it rewards memorization in the same way that 2d platformers do. The enemies always pop up at the same time and in the same place so you can develop a memorized routine for going through the levels really fast. The levels are also all very linear... Point A to point B... There is no confusion and no wondering around. There is a bit of exploration available if you want to use it (hidden treasure chests in the levels and things like that) but it's not required.

edit// and i wouldn't call psychonauts "linear".. There are levels that fall into this catagory, but other levels are wide open. The most defining thing about psychonauts is how different each level is.. It has different design phillosophy's and radically different gameplay from one level to the next...

Please play Maximo 2. I have more memories of the first one but the second one is the definition of excellence nonetheless.

 

[nincompoop]

I wouldn't fap too much on Rayman2. It's not a bad game at all but just warning you it might not hold up as good as some will tell you outta here. Some levels aren't forgiving as in "badly designed" and not as in "you suck". It's still a good game though, i completed it last year.

I agree 100%, I've been playing the PS2 version recently. The level design is pretty boring and the camera is just atrocious. The PS2 version's framerate was shockingly bad as well, though it did look better than the DC version when it wasn't chugging along at less than 20 frames per second.

 

[Krowley]

Please play Maximo 2. I have more memories of the first one but the second one is the definition of excellence nonetheless.

Oh I will.. It's one of those games I've got to play before I completly move on and leave the ps2/gc/xbox generation behind.

I've been a little bit afraid of it because i know that combat is more prevelant and a bit more emphasized, but i plan to grab a used copy soon.

I bought the first one used with very few expectations and it just blew me away. It just got better and better the further i played through it.

 

[Ranger X]

Oh I will.. It's one of those games I've got to play before I completly move on and leave the ps2/gc/xbox generation behind.

I've been a little bit afraid of it because i know that combat is more prevelant and a bit more emphasized, but i plan to grab a used copy soon.

I bought the first one used with very few expectations and it just blew me away. It just got better and better the further i played through it.

The only real difference in Maximo 2 is that they count your hits because it's a la mode and those "combo dudes" are buying the game. But in fact, nothing really changed. There's a TINY BIT more combat but that's all. There are 2 huge battles too. I won't spoil you those though.
The power up system also changed. It's handled differently and you don't lose your powers this time around. They still found a way to make the power up system super interesting mind you.

 

[maxmars]

A decent linear 3d platformer is Ice Age 2:

It's got minigames and objectives which sometimes require you to do some backtracking but normally you just progress through the level.

 

[joesmokey]

As someone else mentioned, I'd strongly recommend Prince of Persia: Sands of Time if you haven't played it before. An excellent 3D platformer, and a clear point A to point B progression.

 

[AniHawk]

A decent linear 3d platformer is Ice Age 2:

It's got minigames and objectives which sometimes require you to do some backtracking but normally you just progress through the level.

How did I miss this N64 classic?

 

[stewacide]

Slightly OT: but what are some recent 2D platformers for home consoles other than SPM? I think the last one I played was Oddworld for the PSX! (and that wasn't really a 'platformer')

 

[GaimeGuy]

<3 Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time.

One of the best games from last gen.

 

[maxmars]

How did I miss this N64 classic?

I wish N64 games aged that well.

 

[BrokenSymmetry]

As someone else mentioned, I'd strongly recommend Prince of Persia: Sands of Time if you haven't played it before. An excellent 3D platformer, and a clear point A to point B progression.

Agreed. Sands of Time is very satisfyingly linear, with lots of doors that fall shut behind you. The non-linearity of Warrior Within only made things confusing and less fun.

 

[maxmars]

Agreed. Sands of Time is very satisfyingly linear, with lots of doors that fall shut behind you. The non-linearity of Warrior Within only made things confusing and less fun.

To me it was the pinnacle of last gen platforming (Sands of Time I mean). Perhaps it's because I've loved the original 2d game, but no other platform game entertained me so much in recent times.

 

[Tailzo]

What version of Rayman 2 is the best? I own it for Dreamcast and it was great even with a 4 player mode I do not think the playstation version had(?). But what was the differences between all the versions? I'd guess the PC version would be the best version, with a modern pc you could have great framerates. And is Rayman 3 worth playing? I think I heard it was not as good as the 2nd.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

I wish N64 games aged that well.

Hmm...

 

[Ramenman]

Rayman 2 You must buy

Spoiler

Yoda-

fixed.

Sincerely this game is just fantastic gameplay-wise (just forget about the one that somehow compared it to Mario64, nothing to see there), and the storyline, despite being not that developped (it's a platformer, boys...) has some great characters imo.

 

[DieH@rd]

Pandemonium 1 & 2

oldschool pwns

 

[Powerslave]

Uhhhhhhhh Prince of Persia isn't a platformer dawgs

 

[nincompoop]

I guess I was just imagining all the time I spent jumping on platforms in Sands of Time then

 

[maxmars]

Hmm...

:lol Aww come on, I've finished B-K, loved it and all its neat touches (expecially animations), but Ice Age 2 just looks better; although, truth to be told, having almost everything covered in snow after a while is a bit heavy on the eyes.

 

[joesmokey]

Uhhhhhhhh Prince of Persia isn't a platformer dawgs

With all of the platforming elements you might as well count it as one, even though technically it is Action Adventure.

You could say the same about Maximo.

 

[nightez]

I just finished Sly Cooper and the Thievius Raccoonus on the PS2, and the one thing that I liked about it was that each individual level was just a "get from Point A to Point B" affair, with a tiny bit of collecting thrown in for flavor. It's not that I don't like the massive worlds with multiple objectives that most 3D platformers offer you, but this was a nice change of pace. I was a little disappointed to find out when I started Sly 2, that Sucker Punch decided to make it less linear and more open-ended. It's still pretty fun, and it may even turn out to be better than Sly 1, but I miss the simplicity of Sly 1's linear levels.

So I'm wondering, are there are any other good 3D Platformers on the PS2 that are similar to Sly Cooper?

All Crash Bandicoot games and Sonic Heroes

 

[blame space]

Glover. Everyone buy Glover.

 

[nightez]

It's not as good as Mario 64, but Rayman 2 is better than pretty much any other 3d platformer ever, including its good-but-not-as-good sequel... awesome game.

Rare may have its haters on GAF. But I think Banjo Tooie is better than every 3D Mario game.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Rare may have its haters on GAF. But I think Banjo Tooie is better than every 3D Mario game.

Oh, Rare's platformers are great. I got 101% in DK64 back when it came out... didn't manage to finish B-T or Conker (and never bought B-K), but I liked both of them as well. Their formula does perhaps get a bit old after a while, but the games definitely hold up. I just think that Mario 64 is better, and Rayman 2.

B-T vs. Mario Sunshine, though... that's harder. Sunshine definitely wasn't as good as Mario 64.

Glover. Everyone buy Glover.

Weird game... the N64 version's the only one I played. Not AWFUL, at least based on playing a few levels of it, but certainly not one of the best 3d platformers ever. At least the ball thing was a bit unique...

 

[Powerslave]

I guess I was just imagining all the time I spent jumping on platforms in Sands of Time then

You also jump on platforms in Half-Life.

 

[nightez]

You also jump on platforms in Half-Life.

And Metroid.


The POP series are really adventure games. Although the line is kinda blurred there is a distinction between Adventure games and Platformers.

 

[Krowley]

I think sands of time falls firmly into the platformer genre.... It took the genre in directions that we hadn't seen before in 3d (with the acrobatics and everything) but traversing past obstacles was the primary gameplay element.

it's just as much a platformer as the 2d ninja gaiden NES games were. There is a bit of combat and puzzle solving but it's not emphasized. The 2d NG games were classified as action games back in the day, but if you play them now it's pretty clear that platforming is the most important aspect..

When your trying to determine if a game is a platformer or not, the question is.... What's the focus? Platforming is the main skill you need to get through sands of time.

The only reason i didn't mention it before is because i couldn't get into it. But being totally objective i have to admit that the game is easily AAA quality. It's well worth trying and it is very linear. Also, most of the puzzles are platforming puzzles.

 

[BrokenSymmetry]

Sands of Time is everything a platformer should be: exciting and fun exploration of 3D space.

 

[nincompoop]

You also jump on platforms in Half-Life.

Was it the main focus of the gameplay?
I have no problems calling any of the Metroid games platformers BTW.

 

[Ranger X]

Pandemonium 1 & 2

oldschool pwns

Excellent suggestion.

(i guess the guys want PS2 games though)

 

[blame space]

Weird game... the N64 version's the only one I played. Not AWFUL, at least based on playing a few levels of it, but certainly not one of the best 3d platformers ever. At least the ball thing was a bit unique...

Probably my nostalgia talking, but it's one of my favorite platformers ever. Such great memories of that game.

 

[AKingNamedPaul]

while we are on the subject, I find myself trying to choose which game to buy; jak 3 or one of the ratchet games (never played ratchet and only played jak and daxter 1) so what series is better by gaf standards ?.?

 

[bjork]

Did anyone mention Kya: Dark Lineage yet? I thought that was a pretty fun game.

 

[Joe Molotov]

Seriously? Shit. I loved that about Sly 1 and was going to pick up Sly 2 eventually.

Sly 2 is still a good game, but yeah...it's a lot different. In a way it's better, in that each level feels like a real heist (albeit an improbable Oceans 11-esque heist). It's more cinematic, I suppose. But as far as the gameplay goes, the first one was a lot better. In Sly 2, instead of a small hub with long levels attached to it, each level has a big hub world with a few tiny areas attached to it, and then 8 major objectives that take place around the hub and in the few smaller areas.

 

[guidop]

its not 3-d but heart of darkness is an amazing platformer imo. ps1 by the way

edit: its also on pc

 

[Powerslave]

Oh yeah. Heart of Darkness was some amazing game. The use of shadows were great. I remember renting that game and getting to disc 2 within an hour. It was a very short game I think.

 

[JadedOne]

super magnetic neo on dreamcast is the absolute cream of this subgenre. its weirdness and gimmicky level design are faintly treasuresque, and it's challenging in a way that platformers haven't been since...nes, really. it has some control and camera issues, but they're worth fighting through.

YES!!! It's fantastic and very challenging.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Oh yeah. Heart of Darkness was some amazing game. The use of shadows were great. I remember renting that game and getting to disc 2 within an hour. It was a very short game I think.

Heart of Darkness is a platformer in the Out of this World style (perhaps Oddworld too, though that's more different)... focusing on puzzles and challenge, not great length. Great game though, for sure, but it's not 3d... though really, I wouldn't call Klonoa 3d either. Sure the graphics are 3d, but the gameplay isn't, and that's what counts. The same goes for the Pandemonium games or Goemon's Great Adventure on the N64 -- it's an incredibly good game, and the graphics are 3d, but the main game is all sidescrolling. It does have elements like branching paths and stuff that wind around eachother, and the town stages are isometric 3d, but despite those things I wouldn't call it a "3d platformer". Its main gameplay isn't in 3d.

Probably my nostalgia talking, but it's one of my favorite platformers ever. Such great memories of that game.

I didn't own it, but I knew someone who did. They didn't like it much, but I thought it was okay... it was frusterating though, if I remember correctly. Darn ball...

Was it the main focus of the gameplay?
I have no problems calling any of the Metroid games platformers BTW.

You do some platform jumping in a bunch of FPSes (Turok, Jedi Knight 1, etc), but it's not the focus of the games, really, so they aren't exactly 'platformers'... though differentiating those from FPSes with no significant platform-jumping aspect at all is reasonable.

 

[Dalauz]

wow thanks GAF. i just got Maximo Ghosts of glory and is perfect.

im having a blast with it. Also took me about 30 minutes to figure how to activated checkpoints :lol :lol :lol

 

[Powerslave]

Heart of Darkness is a platformer in the Out of this World style (perhaps Oddworld too, though that's more different)... focusing on puzzles and challenge, not great length. Great game though, for sure, but it's not 3d... though really, I wouldn't call Klonoa 3d either. Sure the graphics are 3d, but the gameplay isn't, and that's what counts. The same goes for the Pandemonium games or Goemon's Great Adventure on the N64 -- it's an incredibly good game, and the graphics are 3d, but the main game is all sidescrolling. It does have elements like branching paths and stuff that wind around eachother, and the town stages are isometric 3d, but despite those things I wouldn't call it a "3d platformer". Its main gameplay isn't in 3d.

Haha I totally forgot the subject we were on. 3D linear platforms. I know HoD doesn't fall into that category, I just commented on it cause it was a good game.

 

[GitarooMan]

Oh, Rare's platformers are great. I got 101% in DK64 back when it came out... didn't manage to finish B-T or Conker (and never bought B-K), but I liked both of them as well. Their formula does perhaps get a bit old after a while, but the games definitely hold up. I just think that Mario 64 is better, and Rayman 2.

Too bad you never got to B-K, it's better than all of those games and IMO still the best 3D platformer/adventure whatever you want to call it.

 

[nincompoop]

Was it the main focus of the gameplay?
I have no problems calling any of the Metroid games platformers BTW.

You also jump on platforms in Half-Life.

You do some platform jumping in a bunch of FPSes (Turok, Jedi Knight 1, etc), but it's not the focus of the games, really, so they aren't exactly 'platformers'... though differentiating those from FPSes with no significant platform-jumping aspect at all is reasonable.

...
It was kind of a rhetorical question

 

[Powerslave]

Look, Prince of Persia is not a platformer ok.

 

[Krowley]

Look, Prince of Persia is not a platformer ok.

Why not?

the whole game is about bypassing obstacles with a little bit of combat thrown in. Even the puzzles are just platforming puzzles.

 

[nincompoop]

Look, Prince of Persia is not a platformer ok.

Too bad you're wrong.
What's your definition of platformer then? A game with a furry mascot?

 

[A Black Falcon]

Haha I totally forgot the subject we were on. 3D linear platforms. I know HoD doesn't fall into that category, I just commented on it cause it was a good game.

3d linear platformers aren't all that common, though, so it makes sense that the thread would go a bit off-topic after Rayman 2 and 3 get mentioned...

As for the Crash games, I've never really spent much time playing them (the platformers, that is). Didn't have a PSX back when they were current. Haven't they aged pretty badly? And besides, they never were anywhere near as good as Nintendo or Rare's stuff.

Too bad you never got to B-K, it's better than all of those games and IMO still the best 3D platformer/adventure whatever you want to call it.

I don't really mind that I don't have it. Maybe I'll get it eventually, if I see a copy, but DK64, B-T, and Conker are good... and besides, why get another one when I never gor around to finishing Conker or B-T?

I know that "B-K is the best, DK64 is bad" is the common idea, but I liked DK64 back when it came out and my opinion didn't change by the time I finished it. It was a good game. B-K? I'm sure it's good, but would it be as good, playing it later? I know that DK64 did add a few things compared to B-K, like remembering which banannas you've picked up so you don't have to collect them all in one try to get the 'got all the normal coinlike items' reward (at least i think B-K didn't do that)... I'm sure I'd like it, but I really do think that nostalgia and the public perception that "DK64 is bad (and has too much collecting)" is a huge part of why it's remembered poorly, and I just don't think that stuff is true.

I mean... sure, I liked B-T. It was a very good game. But was it better than DK64? No, probably not... though maybe if I played DK64 again my opinion would change. Who knows, I never really played it again after beating the game...

 

[nincompoop]

As for the Crash games, I've never really spent much time playing them (the platformers, that is). Didn't have a PSX back when they were current. Haven't they aged pretty badly?

No, they've aged much better than other 3D games of the era due to their linear nature, since they don't suffer from camera problems.

And besides, they never were anywhere near as good as Nintendo or Rare's stuff.

Maybe if you prefer wandering empty worlds collecting random crap while constantly fighting the camera to solid, challenging platforming gameplay.

 

[Powerslave]

Why not?

the whole game is about bypassing obstacles with a little bit of combat thrown in. Even the puzzles are just platforming puzzles.

going by your guys logic, Tomb Raider Legend is also a platformer.

As for the Crash games, I've never really spent much time playing them (the platformers, that is). Didn't have a PSX back when they were current. Haven't they aged pretty badly? And besides, they never were anywhere near as good as Nintendo or Rare's stuff.

Dude....
The Crash Bandicoot games are nowhere near outdated. They look even better than a lot of PS2 games. It's cartoony 3D with almost no pixelated graphics/jaggies. It's smooth and colourful.
And as for your last line, how can you say that they were never anywhere near as good as the Rare stuff when you haven't played 'em that much? I spend maybe more than 400 hours on CB2 and 3 and I still play them occasionally, having as much as fun as I used to back in the days. These 2 games are seriously underrated platformers and should belong in the top 10 list together with the Mario games.

Maybe if you prefer wandering empty worlds collecting random crap while constantly fighting the camera to solid, challenging platforming gameplay.

Truth. Im sorry but the Nintendo 64 platformers are not as good as people say they are.

 

[A Black Falcon]

No, they've aged much better than other 3D games of the era due to their linear nature, since they don't suffer from camera problems.

Maybe if you prefer wandering empty worlds collecting random crap while constantly fighting the camera to solid, challenging platforming gameplay.

Rare and Nintendo's cameras weren't that bad... it is true that many games from that period had camera problems, but you get used to it. I'm much more critical of Sega's cameras (in the Sonic games I mean) really, because unlike Nintendo or Rare, theirs didn't improve with time...

I believe that the ideal camera that goes where it should without any user control required. In that, I thought that OoT for instance did a great job... it was almost always where you wanted it to be, and if it wasn't just center it and things should be fine. Many other games do end up worse. For instance, judging jumps in some games...

Still though, as I said, I put 3d platformers and 2d platformers (whether they have 2d graphics or 3d graphics and 2d gameplay) in very different categories. They really are very different kinds of games. In many ways Mario 64 created a new genre... it's a good genre though, and one that (as an N64 owner who loved the console) I enjoyed. Sure, the worlds are emptier than the worlds are in 2d platformers, and you do a lot of collecting. You get used to it after a while, and they make up for it with level design, puzzles, segments of more linear platforming, perhaps minigames, etc.

Also, you don't have to collect EVERYTHING in a 3d platformer to complete it. Everything beyond the amount to get the ending (or at least the basic ending) is wholly optional... it's only when it's not, I'd say, that I get annoyed with them. For instance, JFG and its horrible endgame collection quest or Star Fox Adventures and its utterly linear collect-a-thon design that was so boring (at least in a DK64 or B-T, if you get stuck in one place you can go do any one of perhaps dozens of other tasks that will advance you towards your goal... that wasn't true in SF Adventures.).

Truth. Im sorry but the Nintendo 64 platformers are not as good as people say they are.

I disagree, obviously. It's too bad that the genre seems to have declined this last generation... most of the best 3d platformers I can think of were released on the N64... that's partially because of Rare, but they weren't the only ones.

And as for your last line, how can you say that they were never anywhere near as good as the Rare stuff when you haven't played 'em that much?

Nintendo fan bias, of course!

... And I read reviews and stuff. They really can't be compared to Rare games though, since they aren't really 3d platformers. Rare hasn't made those since the SNES... Rare's N64 games were all amazing, though, except perhaps for KI Gold (I just don't like the KI games that much). As for Nintendo, that's harder; their two N64 2d sidescrollers, Yoshi's Story and Kirby 64, weren't that good. The best sidescroller on the N64 is Goemon's Great Adventure, which is awesome, but it's not often that Nintendo doesn't have the best platformer on its own console...