Poodlestrike
Banned
Well, they haven't abandoned the store yet despite some pretty poor performance, and it's been around since 8 launched.
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Lionhead Employee: Fable Legends Will Not Release on Steam
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
Well, they haven't abandoned the store yet despite some pretty poor performance, and it's been around since 8 launched.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
The store wi be populated with good 3rd party games very soon. Most ID@Xbox games will be releasing on the Windows Storw and Xbox One, so that should help bolster the "meaningful" library a lot.Well you are wrong because win10 DOES offer 3rd party titles in there store... But their 3rd party support is sparse, likely because MS hasn't had an attractive market share ...that's why they are filling that void with their own IP such as Fable Legends... If people use it to get Fable or Gears, the uptick in use might encourage other publishers to use it to sell their games...
So the idea that MS isn't competing with Valve in this space is patently false... To date, they aren't a very strong competitor in this space, but they are talking the neccisary steps to become one.
No, it's like a small grocery store with a limited selection vs a massive grocery store... They are both competing to win your grocery budget... The small store tries to win your patronage by offering something you can't get anywhere else. If it pays off, they can grow there store and increase their offering, thus taking marketshare from the larger store.
Every dollar you spend in store A is one less dollar you have to spend in store B. The two stores don't need to have identical catalog to be considered competitors... They just need to be targeting the same group of customers.
The details begind how stores operate is irrelevant. The analogy works because the principles of competition don't change. When you are in the business of selling things, be it groceries, physical media, or digital media, your key to success is market share... In other words, your goal is to get people to choose to patronize your business INSTEAD of someone else's... That 'someone else' is inherently competition. Exclusive goods is a common way of establishing a competitive advantage. IE, Fable Legends.
Well, they haven't abandoned the store yet despite some pretty poor performance, and it's been around since 8 launched.
I can even still install apps I downloaded when Windows 8 was in beta (May 2012), and some of them haven't been updated since then.
The store wi be populated with good 3rd party games very soon. Most ID@Xbox games will be releasing on the Windows Storw and Xbox One, so that should help bolster the "meaningful" library a lot.
Yeah, I have no doubt that the Windows library will grow immensely in the coming months and years... The fact that Win10 is being given out for free means that the potential for market growth is too big for developers to ignore...
Just to put things into perspective ... Steam is huge... It's after 12 years of existence, it has over 125milliom active users...
Windows 10 already been installed over 75 million times, after just 4 weeks of availability... And everyone one of those machines has the Windows Store preinstalled... It won't be long before the number of people who use the Win 10 store eclipses the number of users Steam has... If your a developer why wouldn't you want to tap into this market? Sure the a lot of PC gamers will be content with continuing to use Steam exclusively. But there are a lot of people who don't care how they access a game. And even more , perhaps less hardcore, people who will simply use the preinstalled store app for all of there app/gaming needs, just as they do on their iPhones and androids.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
The details begind how stores operate is irrelevant. The analogy works because the principles of competition don't change. When you are in the business of selling things, be it groceries, physical media, or digital media, your key to success is market share... In other words, your goal is to get people to choose to patronize your business INSTEAD of someone else's... That 'someone else' is inherently competition. Exclusive goods is a common way of establishing a competitive advantage. IE, Fable Legends.
There is essentially no connection between market share and profitability (which is what companies are actually int he business of). Also, it's unclear whether the goods are substitutionary, as I said before.
Windows 10 already been installed over 75 million times, after just 4 weeks of availability... And everyone one of those machines has the Windows Store preinstalled... It won't be long before the number of people who use the Win 10 store eclipses the number of users Steam has...
I'm not sure why this is self-evident. The attach rate on Windows 8 apps was quite low. The store was essentially DOA within 6 months of launch and never revived. Paid apps instantly failed, and unpaid apps failed when advertisers stopped buying advertising (because no one was using apps), leading Microsoft to directly subsidize advertising, which they eventually stopped doing, marooning all the developers. If what I'm saying here is news to you, start here and Google around a little. This move came at the same time they started paying people to make apps, which also didn't work.
Now, Windows 10 has some stuff going for it app-wise--and definitely some extra stuff going for it in terms of games--and it's possible the W10 app store will be healthier than W8. But I don't think it's guaranteed, and I'm not sure why you feel it is as obvious as you do. It's not clear to me that if Windows 10 had a billion users, the W10 app store would have more active users than Steam.
(side note: the Mac App Store is also very dead across the board; is the parallel because both app stores were poorly executed, or because there's less of a demand for an app store among normal OS purchasers on desktops, where the web browser already does 90% of what people want to do, than on mobile?)
There is essentially no connection between market share and profitability (which is what companies are actually int he business of). Also, it's unclear whether the goods are substitutionary, as I said before.
The discussion was not about profitability. It was about the nature of competition. If two companies are seeking marketshare, within the same market, then they are inherently competitors, period. whether or not the goods are substitutionary is irrelevant, the principle relationship between two companies operating in the same market is a competitive one. Thusly, the grocery store analogy works just fine.
I'm not sure why this is self-evident. The attach rate on Windows 8 apps was quite low. The store was essentially DOA within 6 months of launch and never revived. Paid apps instantly failed, and unpaid apps failed when advertisers stopped buying advertising (because no one was using apps), leading Microsoft to directly subsidize advertising, which they eventually stopped doing, marooning all the developers. If what I'm saying here is news to you, start here and Google around a little. This move came at the same time they started paying people to make apps, which also didn't work.
Now, Windows 10 has some stuff going for it app-wise--and definitely some extra stuff going for it in terms of games--and it's possible the W10 app store will be healthier than W8. But I don't think it's guaranteed, and I'm not sure why you feel it is as obvious as you do. It's not clear to me that if Windows 10 had a billion users, the W10 app store would have more active users than Steam.
(side note: the Mac App Store is also very dead across the board; is the parallel because both app stores were poorly executed, or because there's less of a demand for an app store among normal OS purchasers on desktops, where the web browser already does 90% of what people want to do, than on mobile?)
Well, it's not 'guarunteed' but it IMO seems very likely. For starters, after 4 weeks on the market, in terms of downloads Windows10 store already has 6 times the attach rate of the Windows 8 store...
Also, we know part of the reason that Windows 8 store wasn't widely adopted is because the Windows 8 OS wasn't widely adopted... This is a problem that has been addressed in an extremely effective way with windows 10 being given out as a free upgrade.
Another problem for Win8 was the lack of content... Which it self was a symptom of its small user base. MS has solved the userbase issue which SHOULD help with securing 3rd party content. And they are also bringing their own content much of which has a pretty large mindshare (minecraft, gears of war, killer instinct, halo etc)
So, looking at win8 store to support a theory that Win10 will fail, ignores the fact that Win10 store is being executed in a drastically different manner...
PS
Win10 WILL have more active users than steam... I doubt it will supplant Steam as the #1 place to go to for games anytime soon... But given how many people will be using Win10, and the fact that it will be primarily how people add apps to their WIndows devices. There's an entire generation coming up, who uses mobile OS's more than they use PCs... They are tuned to visit app stores... win10 is going to have more than 125million active users sooner than later...
I'm not sure why this is self-evident. The attach rate on Windows 8 apps was quite low. The store was essentially DOA within 6 months of launch and never revived. Paid apps instantly failed, and unpaid apps failed when advertisers stopped buying advertising (because no one was using apps), leading Microsoft to directly subsidize advertising, which they eventually stopped doing, marooning all the developers. If what I'm saying here is news to you, start here and Google around a little. This move came at the same time they started paying people to make apps, which also didn't work.
Now, Windows 10 has some stuff going for it app-wise--and definitely some extra stuff going for it in terms of games--and it's possible the W10 app store will be healthier than W8. But I don't think it's guaranteed, and I'm not sure why you feel it is as obvious as you do. It's not clear to me that if Windows 10 had a billion users, the W10 app store would have more active users than Steam.
This all pretty much describes why the two stores are actually competition for each other. Apps on Windows 8 failed because users didn't have enough incentive to use the store in the first place.. and that poor performance then prevents more apps from appearing on the store. If the store was initially more successful, then it would then become better supported, which would then make it more successful. If the sale of the app itself was the only area of competition, then MS themselves attempting to fund the development and/or advertising revenue would make very little sense to even attempt.
Having games like Fable Legends, Killer Instinct, Gears of War etc exclusively available on the Windows Store helps provide the store with exposure for that segment of the gaming market. This would then make it more likely that the store will be supported by other games of this type (the direct product competition that you seek with Steam), that would otherwise simply skip this store over. You can't separate the products the stores sell from the stores themselves, as their success within the market actually affects the products they can offer (see Wii U / Windows Phone etc). They compete on multiple fronts, either in price for the same product, or mindshare with exclusive products. I'm actually a little surprised this is even being contended tbh.
Bits N Pieces
Member
An interesting development at Lionhead
Lionhead Creative Director Gary Carr Departs
Fable Legends studio loses veteran dev who was thought to have been overseeing new IP prototypes.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lionhead-creative-director-gary-carr-departs/1100-6430521/
Lionhead Creative Director Gary Carr Departs
Fable Legends studio loses veteran dev who was thought to have been overseeing new IP prototypes.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lionhead-creative-director-gary-carr-departs/1100-6430521/
GhostTrick
Banned
This all pretty much describes why the two stores are actually competition for each other. Apps on Windows 8 failed because users didn't have enough incentive to use the store in the first place.. and that poor performance then prevents more apps from appearing on the store. If the store was initially more successful, then it would then become better supported, which would then make it more successful. If the sale of the app itself was the only area of competition, then MS themselves attempting to fund the development and/or advertising revenue would make very little sense to even attempt.
Having games like Fable Legends, Killer Instinct, Gears of War etc exclusively available on the Windows Store helps provide the store with exposure for that segment of the gaming market. This would then make it more likely that the store will be supported by other games of this type (the direct product competition that you seek with Steam), that would otherwise simply skip this store over. You can't separate the products the stores sell from the stores themselves, as their success within the market actually affects the products they can offer (see Wii U / Windows Phone etc). They compete on multiple fronts, either in price for the same product, or mindshare with exclusive products. I'm actually a little surprised this is even being contended tbh.
Gamers wont care about these games because of three reason:
1/ Windows Store looks like a smartphone store. Believe it or not but user interface plays a huge role. And at the moment, people see these AA to AAA games next to smartphone shovelwares.
2/ People dont want another ecosystem. Especially such a bad one. Its late in a lot of things and people simply dont care about streaming their PC game to Xbox One. Very few people care about crossbuy either.
3/ No matter how hard Microsoft can try, they're still under the GFWL fiasco which still ruined some games. People dont trust them and to be fair, when I see the kind of ecosystem they promise... it doesnt give much confidence.
Their only way was to allow for choice because no matter what they think, Steam is a part of that ecosystem called PC.
Vincent Grayson
Member
The Fable games sold pretty well on Steam and F2P games are popular on Steam. If Fable Legends was released on Steam it probably would of been pretty popular.
Not really. This Fable game basically has nothing to do with the old ones in terms of gameplay or story. It's a stupid spinoff that's going to fail hard.
……forgetit
Member
I didn't think they would, I mean the game is released on a baked in feature that comes with every windows 10 PC, why would you release it on steam?
An interesting development at Lionhead
Lionhead Creative Director Gary Carr Departs
Fable Legends studio loses veteran dev who was thought to have been overseeing new IP prototypes.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lionhead-creative-director-gary-carr-departs/1100-6430521/
Hope the New IP doesn't get canned
Bits N Pieces
Member
Hope the New IP doesn't get canned
Me too, although I doubt we would have heard anything about it before next E3 at the earliest?
W10 can fucking have it.
If you thought it would be available on other versions of Windows you havn't been paying attention.
Steverulez
Member
An interesting development at Lionhead
Lionhead Creative Director Gary Carr Departs
Fable Legends studio loses veteran dev who was thought to have been overseeing new IP prototypes.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lionhead-creative-director-gary-carr-departs/1100-6430521/
One of the other guys who was on the incubation team left in June as well... I wonder if they did so due to a problem with what they were making, or changed direction.
TyrantGuardian
Member
lol microsoft. I'm not even touching W10 so have fun with that. SteamOS/Ubuntu is probably where I'll end up soon enough.
That worked out so well for Vista lmao.
MS knows their decades old OS lock-in strategy is falling to the onslaught of the Valve and Google end-user app ecosystems every passing day. Which is why they pushing this and DX12 so hard to remain relevant.
That worked out so well for Vista lmao.
Baron_Calamity
Member
An interesting development at Lionhead
Lionhead Creative Director Gary Carr Departs
Fable Legends studio loses veteran dev who was thought to have been overseeing new IP prototypes.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lionhead-creative-director-gary-carr-departs/1100-6430521/
After a decade of nothing but Fable, did anyone there really think they would be allowed to make something else?
Bits N Pieces
Member
One of the other guys who was on the incubation team left in June as well... I wonder if they did so due to a problem with what they were making, or changed direction.
I wouldn't be too surprised if we saw a few Lionhead vets joining Gary Carr and his new start up.
Do we know if games like Fable Heroes and The Journey would have came out of the incubation team or would these games have from the main development teams at Lionhead?
Would be interested in seeing even some concepts of what they have experimented on in the past.
Gamers wont care about these games because of three reason:
1/ Windows Store looks like a smartphone store. Believe it or not but user interface plays a huge role. And at the moment, people see these AA to AAA games next to smartphone shovelwares.
2/ People dont want another ecosystem. Especially such a bad one. Its late in a lot of things and people simply dont care about streaming their PC game to Xbox One. Very few people care about crossbuy either.
3/ No matter how hard Microsoft can try, they're still under the GFWL fiasco which still ruined some games. People dont trust them and to be fair, when I see the kind of ecosystem they promise... it doesnt give much confidence.
Their only way was to allow for choice because no matter what they think, Steam is a part of that ecosystem called PC.
1)That's because it HAS been a smartphone/tablet store. There is no AAA there atm (closest would be something like BlazBlue CT probably). I agree that they'll need to work on the store's presentation, but the software kinda needs to be there first.
2 and 3) If you don't want to use their store, then fine don't. But they likely won't see it being worthwhile to put these games on Steam regardless. They're not Sega, and the sales of the game alone are probably not worth moving them from the console for. They are allowing you choice. Get the game from their store, get the game for their console, or don't get the game... those are your choices. They're only slightly more willing than Sony and Nintendo to flex on this.
I don't even know why you bothered replying to my post tbh... I was debating Steam being in competition with the Windows Store. You could have made your little "no Steam, no buy" rant as a completely independent post along with all the others.
lol microsoft. I'm not even touching W10 so have fun with that. SteamOS/Ubuntu is probably where I'll end up soon enough.
Fable Legends was specifically announced for Windows 10 PCs. Nothing has changed since January.
I'm talking about it not being on Steam.If you thought it would be available on other versions of Windows you havn't been paying attention.
I wonder if this applies to Gears of War and KI? Probably.
Why wouldn't it.
MS knows their decades old OS lock-in strategy is falling to the onslaught of the Valve and Google end-user app ecosystems every passing day. Which is why they pushing this and DX12 so hard to remain relevant.
We just recently got rid of the stink of GFWL and now they want to go again.
I wonder if this applies to Gears of War and KI? Probably.
KI almost certainly as it's a 'F2P' type of thing as well. Gears of War? No idea.
Not really. This Fable game basically has nothing to do with the old ones in terms of gameplay or story. It's a stupid spinoff that's going to fail hard.
Boy am I tired of seeing this when people don't know anything about the game at all.