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[IJoel]

That was an absolutely pointless and condescending chat. Not that I expected otherwise, but it was entirely useless. I learned nothing new and all Allard did was regurgitate the PR talk they've been spewing since GC.

Unfortunately, and fortunately for me, I didn't expect anything other than that.

 

[----]

So it allowed for tire marks that are saved and Halo 2 statictics, wow thats impressive. Those are 1st party games, the ones that should be truly pushing the hardware. I can totally see how a harddrive makes all the difference now.

That was an example of how the HDD worked. The things you did that affect the game world remained there and didn't disappear after 5 seconds. Like dead bodies, bullet holes, broken items, tire marks etc. This persistent nature of game worlds can now only be accomplished through available RAM which means that other aspects of the game will have to suffer such as graphics to achieve the same goal that designers were able to get for free with the HDD. This is a pretty big compromise.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Far more interesting (IMO) questions:

Some things on my mind that I'd have loved to seen addressed:

1) Are developers typically optimizing each game for multiple resolutions, or simply targeting one resolution like 720p and up/downconverting to get to all the others?

2) Will the media player support any advanced, open codecs like DivX/XviD at launch? What about non-encrypted full-bitrate HDTV MPEG2? Is there the possibility of adding them later? Is Hollywood exerting any influence over what media you support? How can you support HDTV over component cables when HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will not (due to Hollywood pressure)?

3) Does the system support DVD playback without one of the remote controls? Can DVD be upscaled to 720p or 1080i?

4) What percent of X1 titles will be backwards compatible at launch? Will any of them gain new features like higher resolution or better framerate? Will all games run at least as smooth (framerate) as they do on the X1?

5) Will forced Live updates for cheating prevention work on memory cards if you don't have an HDD? Will they still be forced?

6) Will the Neon visualizer work with external sources? Is there an analog input for increased compatibility?

7) Does the WMA music playback support 5.1 surround WMA? Will the media player work with WMA/WMV files that do not have DRM?

8) Why are you not supporting HDMI in the 'HD Era' when it is rapidly becoming the standard high-def interconnect?

9) Many X1 games support or require special controllers like microphones, dance pads, and light guns. Will you release an official converter that will allow these games to play on 360?

Some of these we have a pretty good idea about, but it'd be great to have some actual on-the-record responses.

 

[Lunar Aura]

Why don't you compare the same charts, hm?

sony still shows a bigger loss over the last 5 years. MS has been in the 20s 30s. since after the internet stock craze, sony has dropped from $150 down to 40s 50s. in the last 5 years.

"What the hell are you talking about? Look up the numbers yourself. Sony Pictures' net income was 35.9 billion yen in 2000, and a mere 4.3 billion yen in 2001. For FY05 it is at 63.9 billion yen. All the charts in the world won't change that."

i was trying to point out that companies can manilpulate numbers to make em look better than they are. if the movie business was as hot as you thought it was and as hot as the financials in the movie sector show, sonys stock as a whole wouldnt be where it is now.

 

[xsarien]

Far more interesting (IMO) questions:

Some things on my mind that I'd have loved to seen addressed:

1) Are developers typically optimizing each game for multiple resolutions, or simply targeting one resolution like 720p and up/downconverting to get to all the others?

2) Will the media player support any advanced, open codecs like DivX/XviD at launch? What about non-encrypted full-bitrate HDTV MPEG2? Is there the possibility of adding them later? Is Hollywood exerting any influence over what media you support? How can you support HDTV over component cables when HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will not (due to Hollywood pressure)?

3) Does the system support DVD playback without one of the remote controls? Can DVD be upscaled to 720p or 1080i?

4) What percent of X1 titles will be backwards compatible at launch? Will any of them gain new features like higher resolution or better framerate? Will all games run at least as smooth (framerate) as they do on the X1?

5) Will forced Live updates for cheating prevention work on memory cards if you don't have an HDD? Will they still be forced?

6) Will the Neon visualizer work with external sources? Is there an analog input for increased compatibility?

7) Does the WMA music playback support 5.1 surround WMA? Will the media player work with WMA/WMV files that do not have DRM?

8) Why are you not supporting HDMI in the 'HD Era' when it is rapidly becoming the standard high-def interconnect?

9) Many X1 games support or require special controllers like microphones, dance pads, and light guns. Will you release an official converter that will allow these games to play on 360?

Some of these we have a pretty good idea about, but it'd be great to have some actual on-the-record responses.

Give them time, PR needs some time to spin the answers into a light and fluffy froth.

 

[TheDuce22]

Why isn't anyone mentioning this? This is great news! No more 100$ wi-fi adapter if you don't want to(if I'm understanding the statement correctly).

Most people allready knew this. MS is currently charging 110 for their Xbox wireless adapter but you can go out and find a different one for much much less.

That was an example of how the HDD worked. The things you did that affect the game world remained there and didn't disappear after 5 seconds. Like dead bodies, bullet holes, broken items, tire marks etc. This persistent nature of game worlds can now only be accomplished through available RAM which means that other aspects of the game will have to suffer such as graphics to achieve the same goal that designers were able to get for free with the HDD. This is a pretty big compromise.

This never happened on Xbox. All that stuff could be great but apparently nobody thought it was worth the effort.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

The point is that Sony released the PS2 with 99% backwards compatibility (enhanced btw) and a free DVD player. They simply didn't offer a memory card, but so what? Just trade your PS1 in for store credit and use it to get a free memory card.

Basically, you got a PS2, enhanced PS1, DVD player, Dual Shock 2 controller, free memory card if you traded in your PS1, and you could use your existing component cables with your new PS2. This, coupled with proven exclusive titles is why people bought the PS2.

 

[BorkBork]

:lol :lol :lol

wtf? this has nothing to do with anything. i mean i see where you are coming from but come on. i say DVD was more a factor for sony being successful back then. not backward compatabilty. You didnt hear people saying "welp atleast i can still play my ps1 games." no. you heard them saying "well atleast i still have a cool DVD player"

Huh. I always thought it was a combination of both that made PS2 so popular. It just allows people who owned a PS1 to make the transition to PS2 much more easier with no extra cost. Trade in your PS1, grab a PS2, and voila! Play your old games, get a DVD player and start the next gen all with no fuss. As opposed to a situation now with a 360 where you have to spend an extra $100 to do the same.

 

[DCX]

3) Does the system support DVD playback without one of the remote controls? Can DVD be upscaled to 720p or 1080i?

I asked this question, it didn't get selected.

DCX

 

[maynerd]

"Try taking Windows out of the equation and let's see how well Microsoft is doing."

who buys windows? :lol Big business keeps MS alive. not joe consumer. this is common knowledge.

Umm..windows is their biggest revenue stream. Office however is their most profitable product.

 

[HokieJoe]

And in the case of the original Xbox 'Four Billion Dollar Loss' or... 'We Screwed Up' for short.

Midgar, Sony is bleeding right now. They've been bleeding. Thus, the hopes that one will see a fully spec'd PS3 for $299 is just wishful thinking IMO. Sony can't afford to bleed like they have in the past.

 

[mj1108]

Midgar, Sony is bleeding right now. They've been bleeding. Thus, the hopes that one will see a fully spec'd PS3 for $299 is just wishful thinking IMO. Sony can't afford to bleed like they have in the past.

Isn't it the other divisions of Sony that are bleeding with their Games division their "saving grace"?

 

[xsarien]

sony still shows a bigger loss over the last 5 years. MS has been in the 20s 30s. since after the internet stock craze, sony has dropped from $150 down to 40s 50s. in the last 5 years.

And this has to do with what, precisely? The Playstation and Playstation 2 are both profitable; the PSP will likely follow suit. The Gamecube and Game Boy are both profitable, the DS will be if it isn't already.

Microsoft's the odd man out this generation, and something tells me things aren't going to change in the next one. They don't have the proprietary technology and in-house manufacturing of Sony, nor Nintendo's years of experience in efficient hardware design.

or why theres bitching about the core system when in fact allard is right. if you take PS2s launch system here in the USA, for $299 what did you get? No network adapter, 2 controller ports, no option for wireless controllers unless you purchased a wireless controller setup, no hard drive...nada. just a stock system. after buying a hard drive and a network adapter how mch would you have spent then?

~$350 is what you would've spent on a PS2 w/hard drive and network adapter when all three finally became available. Plus you got a game with the hard drive. Your question makes no sense, as neither were available at the time of the PS2's launch. Do you know why? Because back then, people weren't screaming for either to be standard.

 

[Lunar Aura]

try again unless the network adapter came with the FF package. :lol

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

The Xbox really is doing a 360.
It's ending up right where it started.

Still, even with all my bickering and whinning I'm probably going to pick up the Xbox360 and PS3. I need my high poly DOA boobs and life wouldn't be complete without the next God of War. I just think I'll be waiting around before I purchase the Xbox360. I'll probably pick one up after the PS3 launch. That should be about the time MS comes up with a new and improved version of the Xbox360 at a lower price.

 

[DarienA]

I can't believe people pulled out the stock charts.....

 

[Lunar Aura]

it wouldnt be GAF without them! :lol

 

[border]

i was trying to point out that companies can manilpulate numbers to make em look better than they are. if the movie business was as hot as you thought it was and as hot as the financials in the movie sector show, sonys stock as a whole wouldnt be where it is now.

As long as the stock is low you aren't going to believe they're seeing any growth in any sector? Even if their Annual Report specifically says otherwise? Sony Pictures is only like 10% of their business.....they can do well there and still not post huge stock gains. You might know that if you were capable of doing anything besides cut n' pasting Yahoo charts.

 

[mj1108]

I can't believe people pulled out the stock charts.....

I'm surprised they pulled out the stock charts before sales #'s and lists.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

try again unless the network adapter came with the FF package. :lol

Good point. I forgot about that.
Still, At least with Sony's online adapter we got free online play for the most part and us dial-up users weren't left out in the cold like we were with the Xbox.

$100 = 20GB HDD & 25% backwards compatibility, large memory card.
(Broadband access included with console)
$140 = 40GB HDD, 2 games, extra large memory card, free Play Online email, chat, and buddy list. And I almost forgot Dial-Up and BroadBand access.
(99% backward compatibility included with console)

 

[Mr. Lemming]

There is at least one free game with the 360 HD (Hexic HD).

 

[xsarien]

There is at least one free game with the 360 HD (Hexic HD).

Oh, yeah, the HD puzzle game. Lemme go ahead and just pre-order the premium pack then...

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Wow, J doesn't use capitalization! That's so cool.

I hope he was wearing a hoodie and a blazer.

More like a cast and a bedpan.

 

[Lunar Aura]

$299+$99+$40=what?

$399+$50xbl=what?

not a huge difference is there? ps2+all the extras of then +/- 360 premium of now.

 

[xsarien]

I'm surprised they pulled out the stock charts before sales #'s and lists.

No, you're good. Lunar made a three game list before the stock charts started showing up.

 

[Endymion]

The real number should be 45 million, because I know LOTS of people who are on their 3rd PS2 right now... (Sony quality...)

This pathetic argument again.

Whatever man. Just gives credit to the quality of the audience, since the hardware-software tie ratio would be nothing short of astounding if what you say were true (which isn't).

 

[Jesiatha]

Oh, yeah, the HD puzzle game. Lemme go ahead and just pre-order the premium pack then...

And without paying a subscription fee, the PS2 hard drive games were much more compelling?

 

[Kon Tiki]

Lunar, check your PM.

 

[sonycowboy]

Far more interesting (IMO) questions:

Some things on my mind that I'd have loved to seen addressed:

1) Are developers typically optimizing each game for multiple resolutions, or simply targeting one resolution like 720p and up/downconverting to get to all the others?

2) Will the media player support any advanced, open codecs like DivX/XviD at launch? What about non-encrypted full-bitrate HDTV MPEG2? Is there the possibility of adding them later? Is Hollywood exerting any influence over what media you support? How can you support HDTV over component cables when HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will not (due to Hollywood pressure)?

3) Does the system support DVD playback without one of the remote controls? Can DVD be upscaled to 720p or 1080i?

4) What percent of X1 titles will be backwards compatible at launch? Will any of them gain new features like higher resolution or better framerate? Will all games run at least as smooth (framerate) as they do on the X1?

5) Will forced Live updates for cheating prevention work on memory cards if you don't have an HDD? Will they still be forced?

6) Will the Neon visualizer work with external sources? Is there an analog input for increased compatibility?

7) Does the WMA music playback support 5.1 surround WMA? Will the media player work with WMA/WMV files that do not have DRM?

8) Why are you not supporting HDMI in the 'HD Era' when it is rapidly becoming the standard high-def interconnect?

9) Many X1 games support or require special controllers like microphones, dance pads, and light guns. Will you release an official converter that will allow these games to play on 360?

Some of these we have a pretty good idea about, but it'd be great to have some actual on-the-record responses.

Well, they did answer a big one regarding USB storage being a no go. Most likely for security reasons, but it means there are only 2 solutions for game storage unless they allow for networking your PC for storage, but given that they specifically are making the USB read only, I don't see that being likely.

Memory Card & HDD are it.

 

[chespace]

Sorry if it's already been posted somewhere, but does anyone have a complete transcript of all that J Allard said during the chat session?

I had band practice so I missed it. Whee!

 

[gofreak]

DLC on mem cards and HDD only too?

edit - doh, missed the "read only" bit, I guess so. That could kind of hamper MICROTRANSACTIONS in the long run if most people end up being on mem cards ($40 64MB mem cards at that. Yes, I'm going to keep saying that )

 

[border]

I had band practice so I missed it. Whee!

For some reason I pictured you in a high school marching band.

Anyhow, full transcript is at majornelson.com.

 

[Mrbob]

It seems like Sony has recognized a lot of their PS2 mistakes and are fixing them with PLAYSTATION 3. Again, time will tell, but but if Sony comes out firing at launch with PLAYSTATION 3 I would be a little worried if I were MS.

Sony just needs to offer a Live knockoff system, now.

 

[Lakitu]

I love the way you capitalize Playstation 3.

 

[Chittagong]

I love the way you capitalize Playstation 3.

There was some bizarre Kutaragi logic to it, iirc

 

[FiRez]

So the USB storage is read only -_-

And part of the reason the Xbox could hang with the PCs (Running games from 2003 and 2004 like Doom 3) was the Hard Drive. Preloading rox.

QFT, 512MB will not cut it in a few years

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I for one welcome our new PLAYSTATION 3 overlords.

 

[DCharlie]

"And this has to do with what, precisely? The Playstation and Playstation 2 are both profitable; the PSP will likely follow suit. The Gamecube and Game Boy are both profitable, the DS will be if it isn't already."

I like sonys strategy because it's good for the consumer, they usually take a pretty hefty hit on the hardware with the premise that they'll break even on the console about 5 years down the line, then start hitting the sweet profits after that. But i'm not sure too many people realise that for each project, it takes a while for the break even point.

The problem this time is that the electronics business is getting murdered. All the other departments are making cash sure, but it's not steming the bloodbath in electronics (which is where Stringer is probably going to do a lot of his "fixing").

Now, the issue here is that Sonys stock doesn't look that great and their 5 year restructuring plan (T60) has cost a fortune and hasn't yielded the expected results - although they might achieve some cost cutting via more redundancies (10,000 have went so far, with initial expectations of another 10,000 to go). Ontop of all this , releasing the PS3 at a hefty loss would incur more loss. I guess they could stem the flow of machines onto the market, but given they'll want to race ahead of MS , i don't think they'll do that. It would take a lot of nerve (in this i mean, Sony would have to hold their nerve, not "they'd be arrogant etc...) to continue on with the loss-recoup model. Infact, would Stringer and the consortium who decide the PS3 price even allow it? No idea... What i think is more likely is that when Kutaragi hints the PS3 will be more expensive - he really does mean it.

What that level will be is anyones guess, but i don't believe it's some cunning master plan to trip MS up. A low cost PS3 incurring loses wouldn't do the stock price much favours in the short-mid term, but could well be great in the long term (but most investors are always fixed on short term it would seem)

 

[sonycowboy]

What that level will be is anyones guess, but i don't believe it's some cunning master plan to trip MS up. A low cost PS3 incurring loses wouldn't do the stock price much favours in the short-mid term, but could well be great in the long term (but most investors are always fixed on short term it would seem)

American's look at the next fiscal quarter. The Japanese look at the next quarter century.

[/two cents for identifying this movie quote]

 

[Luckett_X]

Its not a chat if you can only ask 1 question at the start, and then not respond.

As expected, all the tough questions dodged with bullshit PR. What annoys me the most is just how obviously false it is. In one breath he's blabbering on about how we the users have made xbox what it is today, and how they designed it all for us, and then the next saying "but its not just for you!".

A console's successor should NEVER be a step backwards from the original. That then means games on the original system may quite simply now not be possible on the successor. I find the news that the Core system doesnt come with a memory card or even a little in-system memory space completely disheartening. Oh Allard, this wonderful retard casual gamer, do they not want to save games ever, and look forward to either completing a game in one go or forever playing the first mission? No, didnt think so.

also, this bullshit about "you might want to upgrade one day!" yes, that doesnt mean the hdd has to be left out of the base unit. a usb external hdd add-on would have been sufficient down the line if someone was desperate for more amounts of storage. and the "but what about if someone wants to take their save data to someones house?!" yeah, thats what memory cards are for. I dont think the absurd need has arised yet for me to take an hdd round someones house and slot it into their x360. Infact, I can already see the massive potential arguments between siblings taking the hdd out and hiding it meaning their little brother/sister doesnt have access to their save games anymore.

If Sony weren't so blasted arrogant, I wish they'd seize this opportunity and make the PS3 HDD standard. It would seriously fuck the X360 right up.

Oh well. I guess its too late in the game now, but I am seriously disheartened that its looking like this generation will pass by entirely without developers utilising hdd's for games design and technical solutions. Having to wait next-next gen for that just seems fucking ridiculous.

 

[----]

This never happened on Xbox. All that stuff could be great but apparently nobody thought it was worth the effort.

You need to play more Xbox games. :lol I wasn't speaking theoretically.

And it's not that Xbox 360 games aren't going to have any of those persistent world aspects where it keeps track of every little detail you've affected in the game world, the problem is that graphics are going to take a hit as a result and you're going to hear a lot of "Xbox 1.5" comments.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

J Allard (Expert):
Q: Can a USB Memory been used by the xbox 360??(I'm asking this because the 360 has USB ports)
A: at present our design for xbox 360 uses the usb ports in a read-only capacity for playing music and viewing photos. if there are other applications that you guys think are interesting then please give us your feedback.

:lol

 

[Mrbob]

:lol

Yeah, no shit. I dunno.....GAMES?!

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Yeah, no shit. I dunno.....GAMES?!

You know, they would really open the market up too.

Think of it, no one has done that before. Give us what we want and you will be embraced you fucking fools!

So people can more easily swap save files. Who cares!? If someone wants their game completed that's their perogative (I think it's stupid myself, but hey - if they get their jollies, who cares).

MS, you are so damn dumb sometimes and brilliant at others. It's a shame.

Well, maybe it's good though - because we don't need a one Microsoft under Bill Gates world.

 

[Mrbob]

You know, they would really open the market up too.

Think of it, no one has done that before. Give us what we want and you will be embraced you fucking fools!

Don't worry, one hardware manufacturer is forward thinking enough to have you covered on this issue:

MS love to say, "CHOICE CHOICE CHOICE". Well, if you truly want choice BUY A PLAYSTATION 3. It's the chosiest (YEAH) of next gen consoles.

 

[Lunar Aura]

I like sonys strategy because it's good for the consumer, they usually take a pretty hefty hit on the hardware with the premise that they'll break even on the console about 5 years down the line, then start hitting the sweet profits after that. But i'm not sure too many people realise that for each project, it takes a while for the break even point.

The problem this time is that the electronics business is getting murdered. All the other departments are making cash sure, but it's not steming the bloodbath in electronics (which is where Stringer is probably going to do a lot of his "fixing").

Now, the issue here is that Sonys stock doesn't look that great and their 5 year restructuring plan (T60) has cost a fortune and hasn't yielded the expected results - although they might achieve some cost cutting via more redundancies (10,000 have went so far, with initial expectations of another 10,000 to go). Ontop of all this , releasing the PS3 at a hefty loss would incur more loss. I guess they could stem the flow of machines onto the market, but given they'll want to race ahead of MS , i don't think they'll do that. It would take a lot of nerve (in this i mean, Sony would have to hold their nerve, not "they'd be arrogant etc...) to continue on with the loss-recoup model. Infact, would Stringer and the consortium who decide the PS3 price even allow it? No idea... What i think is more likely is that when Kutaragi hints the PS3 will be more expensive - he really does mean it.

What that level will be is anyones guess, but i don't believe it's some cunning master plan to trip MS up. A low cost PS3 incurring loses wouldn't do the stock price much favours in the short-mid term, but could well be great in the long term (but most investors are always fixed on short term it would seem)

excellent post and exactly but i was trying to say but didnt have all the info to spew it without sounding like more of an idiot than i already have. :lol yes. go on and welcom your $499 ps3 overlord.

as far as the price drop possibility for MS, i could see not only the price of the system dropping BUT the price of the hard drive as well.

launch
premium 399, core 299, HD 99

ps3/360 relaunch 1 year from now/christmas 2006
premium 329=system, wireless controller(no other extras), HD...core=249 no HD, wired controller. HD-60 stand alone.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Don't worry, one hardware manufacturer is forward thinking enough to have you covered on this issue:

MS love to say, "CHOICE CHOICE CHOICE". Well, if you truly want choice BUY A PLAYSTATION 3. It's the chosiest (YEAH) of next gen consoles.

Well, I hope your right, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Mrbob]

Well, I hope your right, but I'm not holding my breath.

Well all you need a is memory stick pro, memory stick pro duo, compact flash, or SD card. Don't need a reader. PLAYSTATION 3 has all 4 ports built into the system for storage options on top of a potential hdd. Nothing confirmed on the USB hdd front yet, though.

 

[empanada]

J Allard (Expert):
Q: Can a USB Memory been used by the xbox 360??(I'm asking this because the 360 has USB ports)
A: at present our design for xbox 360 uses the usb ports in a read-only capacity for playing music and viewing photos. if there are other applications that you guys think are interesting then please give us your feedback.

Does this mean we cant use 3rd party USB drives/wi-fi adapters/etc because all of those require read/write operations? Thats fucked up. They are basically forcing ppl to buy their official addons.

 

[dorio]

Does this mean we cant use 3rd party USB drives/wi-fi adapters/etc because all of those require read/write operations? Thats fucked up. They are basically forcing ppl to buy their official addons.

He said wifi adapters will work.