outunderthestars
Banned
If we are lowering the bar of success to Crackdown (which I personally love) level, then you should include Singstar, Hot Shots Golf, MLB, Little Big Planet, Twisted Metal, and Ape Escape.
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Looking Back At Microsoft's 13 Years of First Party
- Thread starter QaaQer
- Start date
If we are lowering the bar of success to Crackdown (which I personally love) level, then you should include Singstar, Hot Shots Golf, MLB, Little Big Planet, Twisted Metal, and Ape Escape.
TitusGroan
Banned
How fortunate then that Phil Spencer has been spending money and expanding Microsoft's first party studios, as well as opening up new ones.
I swear, Microsoft right now is to GAF like that one ex-girlfriend who even the very thought of makes you go frothy and lose all reason. What were 343i and Black Tusk if not first-party studio expansions?
Franchises and IPs won't always follow through generations. Nintendo is good for that, however Sony and Sega have proven that this is a difficult thing to achieve.
Not a lot of Sony franchise made it from PSX to PS2, even less from PS2 to PS3.
MLB is not a Sony franchise, dude.
I don't disagree with this post at all. Actually it just makes MS's actions now all the more depressing.
All of these are things that MS did. Not things they're still doing.
protomouse
Member
/ thread
Ol No Bones
Banned
You could say that about all sorts of playstation IP. Franchises come and go. Microsoft is now reviving some of its old titles. Its a good move.
The quote in the OP pretty much suma up everything. MS has been almost 15 years in the industry and all they have done is buying their place there. And now that short-sighted strategy is paying back, with PS4 dominating more and more every day.
Once the big PS4 exclusives start to come out, it's going to be a slaughter.
Once the big PS4 exclusives start to come out, it's going to be a slaughter.
Exploratory
Banned
1 bad games kills the Halo franchise? Not even a bad game but 1 bad Halo game. Bullshit. The last Halo was the best selling one yet and its obvious 343 learned from it if you've been paying attention to Halo the past year. The idea that Halo is on the decline is a false narrative whipped up by fanboys. How many top tier gaming franchises die after 1 "bad" game?
Gears is in limbo? What is going on? Supposedly being worked on as if its possible its not?
quite frankly, I do not see any difference with how different companies obtain exclusives. All the companies are using 10-100s of millions to develop some type of exclusive arrangement with a 3rd party. Sometimes that is in the form of co-marketing, sometimes that is in the form of purchasing a studio or IP, sometimes that is in the form of co-development...it's all $$ used towards a 3rd party to build some type of exclusive relationship. I think people view Sony's more public methodology more favorably because they believe Sony is more pro-consumer or somehow pro-gamer. I personally do not see any difference between the ROTTR exclusive with MS or Michel Ancel's Wild with Sony
Not sure what you are getting at? Are you suggesting that my unbiased view on the expense of new IP's that can fail, has a bearing on the games I look forward (or not) to playing?
Or is it just a troll?
I'm getting at that for all thier new ips last gen, Sony really was only able to find a few successful ones. In other cases they ended the ip or closed the developer. They've also just ignored past successful ips. Sony is clearly no angel in how it's treated it's ips or it's 1st party developers. Zipper interactive anybody?
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Well said sir.
TitusGroan
Banned
Same place as Jak And Daxter, Ape Escape and Star Tropics.
Where on earth is that Microsoft now then? Why did they spend the last years of the 360 cycle becoming the gaming equivalent of Manchester United? It's been increasingly obvious that they have massive shortcomings on funding their own games and yet they did not take advantage of their strongest period to do anything about it.
Back slaps for history? Yep, we were all reminiscing about the glory days of the PSone and how much Sony did to drag console gaming back into mainstream consciousness when the PS3 was floundering.
No. The OP is valid. If anything, it is sad to see a company with rich heritage slip to an anorexic shadow of itself.
/unthreads
Back slaps for history? Yep, we were all reminiscing about the glory days of the PSone and how much Sony did to drag console gaming back into mainstream consciousness when the PS3 was floundering.
No. The OP is valid. If anything, it is sad to see a company with rich heritage slip to an anorexic shadow of itself.
/unthreads
Exploratory
Banned
/thread
BibiMaghoo
Member
I think you misunderstood my intent. The post you quoted was saying that Sony and Nintendo DID put out shit last gen, that cost them money for no gain in useful IP, not that they did not.
To be replaced with brand new wares! Thank god we're not all stuck on Crash and Conker still.
BumblebeeCody
Member
It gets to a point where it's easy to think that. Microsoft do deserve to be called out on their bullshit but it's incredible how many people are sucking off Sony. I mean, we can ignore the years of terrible online service(free or not), terrible operating system and how games like Bayonetta or Mass Effect ran but because screw it(!), they won't that conference last year. All the while Microsoft has had a strong support for indie devs letting their console be open for the indie space and big titles like Super Meat Boy and Fez plus improving the Xbox LIVE gold service value.
But would I know? I mean, it's not like I'm open minded who bought all 3 major platforms of each gen (still yet to buy a Wii U) to come to a conclusion based on the pros and cons of each generation to give my outlook on each. I should continue to to ignore Nintendo, Kiss Sonys arse and keep bashing Microsoft. Then I'll be fit for 'Gaf.
Fake edit:
To the original OP, not the person wanking over that post who made a topic out of it, you forgot to add Muches Oddysee.
pokeystaples
Banned
I understand why people are bothered by it, but they have had success with this model so why stop now? While the Xbox 1 has not sold as much as the PS4, people are still buying the console and the generation is long.
markedbravado
Member
Just imagine if Valve starts to do this with 3rd party publishers. Smh.
A lot of executives heads changed throughout the generations so you gotta see the context with each and every decision made. It's not as simple as it seems.
Regarding Spencer, he has been there since the first Xbox. While I like his gaming focused direction, I don't like his approach to making games through third parties or outsourcing. But hey, what do I know? I'm just some forum goon and that's the facts.
Regarding Spencer, he has been there since the first Xbox. While I like his gaming focused direction, I don't like his approach to making games through third parties or outsourcing. But hey, what do I know? I'm just some forum goon and that's the facts.
They bet on Kinect and alternative controls, and who can blame them after the success of the Wii (even Sony fucking tried and failed, at least Microsoft somewhat succeeded with Kinect 360).
It's how they started the Xbox One that's biting them in the ass.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Consider this. MS already has a solid line up in 2013-2014 and they have yet to release a brand NEW Halo game and Gears is not even being talked about. They have 2 unannounced studios and are still going to publish 3rd party games. MS is going to have a solid selection of games and not even GAF will be able to ignore it. You people who actually care about games are all gonna buy one.
Threefingered
Banned
Man...the bitterness. I keep trying to figure out what these threads accomplish...
Are we vilifying MS for being a business? Because they have bought several studios and thus rights to some exclusives. They also have started a couple of there own studios, but I can't understand the threads OP? It just seems like more and more of console war whining to me to try and sway people to one system or another.
Sony has some stellar startup studios, but they also have bought some of their biggest producers of top tier games:
Guerilla
Naughty Dog
Sucker Punch
Media Molecule
Zipper (RIP)
Are we vilifying MS for being a business? Because they have bought several studios and thus rights to some exclusives. They also have started a couple of there own studios, but I can't understand the threads OP? It just seems like more and more of console war whining to me to try and sway people to one system or another.
Sony has some stellar startup studios, but they also have bought some of their biggest producers of top tier games:
Guerilla
Naughty Dog
Sucker Punch
Media Molecule
Zipper (RIP)
boclfon479
Member
I got an original Xbox around when they came out along with halo and azurik. I loved it, didn't get a ps2 or GC until later on.
I got an Xbox 360 when I graduated high school along with oblivion, and didn't get a ps3 until the slim came out. I loved my 360, it was by far my main console.
I did not and most likely will not by an X1 because, in an age where basically all non first party games are multiplatform, I wanted to choose a console that would get a better variety of first party games. On one hand, Sony's first party has RPG's, shooters, platformers, action games, adventure games, and so on. On the other hand, Microsoft first party has.... Shooters and racing games. That's it.
As it stands currently, MS needs to diversify their first party offerings. Sure shooters are big now, but the market WILL hit a point of over saturation of shooters and stagnate, and when that happens Microsoft will be stuck standing there with a thumb up their ass.
One of my coworkers was trying to explain why he thought X1 was going to be better than PS4, and he said titanfall and halo. I told him that the genre diversity wasn't there on x1, and that he would regret buying it. He bought a Ps4 for destiny and infamous, and last week he told me he sold his X1...
Guess I was right afterall.
I got an Xbox 360 when I graduated high school along with oblivion, and didn't get a ps3 until the slim came out. I loved my 360, it was by far my main console.
I did not and most likely will not by an X1 because, in an age where basically all non first party games are multiplatform, I wanted to choose a console that would get a better variety of first party games. On one hand, Sony's first party has RPG's, shooters, platformers, action games, adventure games, and so on. On the other hand, Microsoft first party has.... Shooters and racing games. That's it.
As it stands currently, MS needs to diversify their first party offerings. Sure shooters are big now, but the market WILL hit a point of over saturation of shooters and stagnate, and when that happens Microsoft will be stuck standing there with a thumb up their ass.
One of my coworkers was trying to explain why he thought X1 was going to be better than PS4, and he said titanfall and halo. I told him that the genre diversity wasn't there on x1, and that he would regret buying it. He bought a Ps4 for destiny and infamous, and last week he told me he sold his X1...
Guess I was right afterall.
It gets to a point where it's easy to think that. Microsoft do deserve to be called out on their bullshit but it's incredible how many people are sucking off Sony. I mean, we can ignore the years of terrible online service(free or not), terrible operating system and how games like Bayonetta or Mass Effect ran but because screw it(!), they won't that conference last year. All the while Microsoft has had a strong support for indie devs letting their console be open for the indie space and big titles like Super Meat Boy and Fez plus improving the Xbox LIVE gold service value.
But would I know? I mean, it's not like I'm open minded who bought all 3 major platforms of each gen (still yet to buy a Wii U) to come to a conclusion based on the pros and cons of each generation to give my outlook on each. I should continue to to ignore Nintendo, Kiss Sonys arse and keep bashing Microsoft. Then I'll be fit for 'Gaf.
Fake edit:
To the original OP, not the person wanking over that post who made a topic out of it, you forgot to add Muches Oddysee.
This sums up my feeling towards it all.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Well said.
Exploratory
Banned
That's funny I played State of Decay in the summer of 2013 and they own that IP.
MS definitely failed at first party and new IPs near the end of the gen but it wasn't as bad as people think nor is it like that anymore.
TitusGroan
Banned
Hey there sport, here's something that will blow your mind: different management have different ideas on how to run a department. Don Mattrick took over the final years of the 360, and started the focus on Kinect and that crap. Guess what? He's gone off to Zynga, where he can make causal games to his little heart's content. Phil Spencer is in charge now and, surprise surprise, Spencer is not Mattrick. Kind of like how Iwata is not Yamauichi, or Kaz is not Howard Stringer.
In terms of bringing back old IPs, Microsoft are already bringing back Phantom Dust, a franchise many of us believed was dead. How is that not taking advantage of their roots?
Well people sure won't shush about Sony bringing Crash or Legend Of Dragoon back, or Nintendo apparently maybe reviving Star Tropics (except when it turns out they're not).
So the Microsoft which is bringing us Phantom Dust, Scalebound and Project Spark is anorexic compared to the Microsoft that gave us Kinect Pets?
NemesisPrime
Banned
Not making first party titles is actually GOOD for the industry, since MS money is not used to fund internal studios and reap the profits from that, but a myriad of big and small third party studios who then get to keep their own profits and still receive MS money.
OP doesn't make a lot of business sense TBH.
OP doesn't make a lot of business sense TBH.
Not quite. You're defining "from Sony/MS" and "wholly owned studios" differently from both Sony and Microsoft. I consider "wholly owned IPs" ones that were created after the studio was acquired.
The first Fable was in 2004. Microsoft published Fable 1, but Lionhead was independent until Microsoft bought them and got the IP. Halo and Turn 10 could still be counted.
Naughty Dog was acquired in 2001. Since then they have created Jak, Uncharted, and The Last of Us. Evolution was acquired in 2007 they've made Driveclub. Sony Bend was acquired in 2001, they've made several Syphon Filters since.
thewhitehawk
Member
Besides the lies and aggressive monetisation practices on Xbox One's launch games, this is one of the largest reasons why I don't have any interest in the console currently. Money hatting can help provide great games, but only as long as they want to provide such money. It says very little for the console's longevity in terms of quality releases and keeps it from differentiating itself. Even the 360 had trouble differentiating itself other than Halo and Gears of War and being marketed to sports fans but other than those two core franchises and perhaps Fable, there really wasn't that much difference from Sony which offered a much more diversified lineup of exclusive and original IPs for their platform.
I agree with this post in general, but they really haven't shown any real commitment to build a strong/perdurable first party offering, which is something from the OP that I agree with and been saying for a long time.
MS, however, have done some good things for gaming.
outunderthestars
Banned
Have they? Both the Xbox and 360 finished at or near the back of the pack in terms of sales while never achieving international success. At the same time they appear to be losing marketplace acceptance in the only major market that they have been successful in, the US.
True...also, people are acting as if just because Sony might sell 130m PS4s and MS sells 80m XB1's, that this generation would somehow be a failure for MS. Sure the console warriors would be crowing; but I really don't care as long as I get great games to play.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Why are people conveniently ignoring Team Dakota? Even if you don't think Project Spark looks good, they are a new internal studio working on a new IP, so why ignore that? Also, writing off Press Play as "not providing anything significant" is pretty damn silly, as Max:COB was damn good, and their new game Totem looks pretty fun. Ya, downloadable titles only, but that doesn't mean they are irrelevant as a first party studio.
Also, why ignore all the great work they do with third party studios? In many cases they own the IP (QB, State of Decay, Scalebound, ScreamRide, Zoo Tycoon, I could go on but you get the poiint) but get to work with good partners and not only keep them employeed, but have them working on meaningful, and in many cases, different and new IP. Sure, they aren't first party studios, but it's still MS IP, and the process is still keeping jobs and money flowing in the industry, so just bashing them for not having 1st party studios is a bit odd to me. If anything this practice is pretty industry friendly as if these studios were MS owned, the money would just be flowing through MS pockets, instead of many various 3rd party studios all over the world.
Ya, they need more 1st party investments, and they should really try to snatch up some of these long term important partners to them that work on their IP (Frontier, Undead Labs and Remedy come to mind as great candidates). Then again, if MS bought Remedy, or if MS buys Undead Labs, would we have seen Alan Wake (Remedy owned IP) or State of Decay on PC? Would people have been able to experience them without buying an Xbox? How would people react to this? They want more 1st party studios, but in doing so, would rip games away from PC release for people without an Xbox to play. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Also, why ignore all the great work they do with third party studios? In many cases they own the IP (QB, State of Decay, Scalebound, ScreamRide, Zoo Tycoon, I could go on but you get the poiint) but get to work with good partners and not only keep them employeed, but have them working on meaningful, and in many cases, different and new IP. Sure, they aren't first party studios, but it's still MS IP, and the process is still keeping jobs and money flowing in the industry, so just bashing them for not having 1st party studios is a bit odd to me. If anything this practice is pretty industry friendly as if these studios were MS owned, the money would just be flowing through MS pockets, instead of many various 3rd party studios all over the world.
Ya, they need more 1st party investments, and they should really try to snatch up some of these long term important partners to them that work on their IP (Frontier, Undead Labs and Remedy come to mind as great candidates). Then again, if MS bought Remedy, or if MS buys Undead Labs, would we have seen Alan Wake (Remedy owned IP) or State of Decay on PC? Would people have been able to experience them without buying an Xbox? How would people react to this? They want more 1st party studios, but in doing so, would rip games away from PC release for people without an Xbox to play. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I think it's weird that people don't like Microsoft working with third parties over building their own studios. If the project doesn't sell well, Microsoft would probably be forced to fire all or some of the individuals involved. By working with outside developers, that team may still survive and pick up future projects, or in some cases may be able to continue that IP elsewhere and potentially find better success with a sequel or smaller project.
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
The op is just plainly stating facts. Of course that's gonna make Microsoft look bad. They're a big player in the games industry who doesn't really care about games.
I liked Age of Empires way back when though. "The wonder the wonder the noooooo!"
I liked Age of Empires way back when though. "The wonder the wonder the noooooo!"
Because it doesn't fit with the narrative that they are trying to portray.
SniperHunter
Banned
Killer op spits truth bombs
BumblebeeCody
Member
I agree and disagree in that it's good. I see why it's good but at the same time, it's understandable. Mario on Xbox. No reason why that couldn't happen but we all know why it won't. Which is a shame because I'd love to see what a Zelda game would look like on the PS4 hardware.
Also, do you have source for how Microsoft receive money and the transaction details?
Xbox gave us amazing titles like Blue Dragon, Lost Oddysee, Akai Katana, Ninja Gaiden 2 while Sony ruined Final Fantasy starting with VIII and milked the God of War series. It's easy to be one sided in an argument if you're pushing your own biased point of view.
Also, Xbox has Killer Instinct so...your turn Sony.
^
Stare-Bear
Banned
Remember the first Xbox 360? No built in hard drive, hdmi port or wi-fi. Don't get me started on RROD.
And which company pissed off most indie developers? Take a wild guess...
It's always better to hire new people to build new games, even if they may eventually be let go, than to simply give another company a boatload of money so the other company makes fewer versions and has fewer people working in both companies.
markedbravado
Member
It gets to a point where it's easy to think that. Microsoft do deserve to be called out on their bullshit but it's incredible how many people are sucking off Sony. I mean, we can ignore the years of terrible online service(free or not), terrible operating system and how games like Bayonetta or Mass Effect ran but because screw it(!), they won't that conference last year. All the while Microsoft has had a strong support for indie devs letting their console be open for the indie space and big titles like Super Meat Boy and Fez plus improving the Xbox LIVE gold service value.
But would I know? I mean, it's not like I'm open minded who bought all 3 major platforms of each gen (still yet to buy a Wii U) to come to a conclusion based on the pros and cons of each generation to give my outlook on each. I should continue to to ignore Nintendo, Kiss Sonys arse and keep bashing Microsoft. Then I'll be fit for 'Gaf.
Fake edit:
To the original OP, not the person wanking over that post who made a topic out of it, you forgot to add Muches Oddysee.
MS gave the biggest f u to its core audience the minute they introduced kinect to the 360. Some of u act like this newfound disdain for MS started this gen. They abandoned unique ip output in the second half of the gen cycle, while Sony kept at it and continues to this day.
Wait till Apple and Amazon join the foray. Then we will see if u guys keep pushing this "its just good business" line. U will have to own like 4-5 consoles to to play the big 3rd party games fragmented about.
TitusGroan
Banned
Sony also made the PS3 an absolute nightmare to programme for, and pretty much spat in the face of every third party developer with their demands for how PS3 games should be made. Countless PS3 games still run like ass compared to their 360 releases. Microsoft also worked on games like Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon, which were the absolute opposite of shooters.
Let's not act as if Sony did no wrong last generation. They started it by flipping the bird at both consumer and developer, then desperately trying to make up for it over the years.
How is it better?
The only difference isn't MS is hiring these people directly and in turn, isn't responsible for potentially downsizing.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
The funny thing is, when you really look at it. Microsoft has got an amazing first party and they are starting to come into their own.
...the firmware team.
Its were Microsoft excels and the biggest advantage they have ever had over sony.
Might not be typically what a gamer is looking for, but its undeniable it doesnt aid in the enjoyment of gaming.
...the firmware team.
Its were Microsoft excels and the biggest advantage they have ever had over sony.
Might not be typically what a gamer is looking for, but its undeniable it doesnt aid in the enjoyment of gaming.
BumblebeeCody
Member
The only company that gave a massive F U was Nintendo with forced motion controls. Kinect is an amazing piece of technology but it being used by Microsoft for games is why it sucks as much as it does.
But aside from that, why is this is a massive F U when it's an optional device for the 360? By your own (lack of)logic, I'm going to assume the Sony Move controller is also a massive F U you to Sony player base(?).
How do you defend Sony and their mandatory online passes or exclusive Watch_Dogs content that cut the PC and XBox crowd out? Or the pre-order bonus for Beyond: Two Souls which had additional content which meant Sony were competing with themselves? This thread, man.
Both...no ALL THREE companies have made massive fuck ups but have brought us all damn good games. I was pissed about Final Fantasy being a Sony console series after 3(6) or Munches Oddysee being on the first Microsoft Platform. This shit happens. But only now are people getting pissed about this.
Why is Transistor only on PS4 when Bastion debut on Xbox? Why is Abes Oddysee: New and Tasty only on PS4, not even on PS3? C'mon people. Stop being silly.
"Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons."
I stop reading here. Whoever wrote this is either ignorant or bitter.
I guess I need to stop browsing gaf in these days. People writes pathetic comments to push their agenda in almost every threads, every page. I don't understand why people need to try this hard to justify their 400$/500$ investment.
I stop reading here. Whoever wrote this is either ignorant or bitter.
I guess I need to stop browsing gaf in these days. People writes pathetic comments to push their agenda in almost every threads, every page. I don't understand why people need to try this hard to justify their 400$/500$ investment.