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[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Before I begin, let's get this out of the way.

THERE WILL BE UNMARKED SPOILERS FOR GTA IV (as well as Ballad of Gay Tony and The Lost and the Damned), BUT IF YOU SAY ANYTHING ABOUT GTA V, YOU WILL BE OBLITERATED FROM ORBIT.

We all know that GTA V looks like it'll be going in a more humourous sun-baked direction in terms of the story, following around a crew of bank robbers committing heists. It seems to be bringing back the humour and zaniness that GTA IV subdued in favour of telling a more "mature" story (Ballad of Gay Tony mostly excluded.

Now we are several years removed from the release of GTA IV. GTA's story seemed quite divisive, with how much critical praise versus fan expectations and so on. Have your feelings about Niko's tale changed in the past few years?

Honestly, when I first played the game, it left me feeling cold. I know we never play the hero, but it honestly felt like... Niko was a goddamn scumbag. The world felt more serious, a lot darker, and while our GTA protagonists in the past were lovable scumbags, there wasn't much about Niko worth loving. He was a hypocritic criminal seeking vengeance just to satiate himself, and his own greedy choices ultimately cost him either Roman or Kate. He constantly whines about money while blowing away cops during a jewelry heist while he has a shit ton of money from all his other crap.

At least Darko calls him on it, asking how much he charges to murder someone.

Your thoughts?

 

[mullet2000]

"Oscar Worthy" was always stupid, but I really enjoyed Niko as a character and liked the story a lot. Ludo-narrative dissonance aside.

That said, the game needed an editor and it needed to be shorter. There's a very good plot in GTA4 but's it's buried under at least half of the game being filler. I hope that GTA5 is a tighter experience because this is a common issue with Rockstar's narratives.

 

[The Illiterati]

Rockstar narratives are too long, but perhaps this will be alleviated by the three protagonists in V. Meaning, multiple arcs where you play the single characters, and then come to together occasionally for group missions and an overall arc. Then you can have individual storylines matter more and not stretch and bloat like other RS games.

Edit to add: I hated GTA IV, tried playing it twice, unresponsive controls and lack of mid mission saves made me give up early both times. After one cutscene mid mission, I was given control and hit by a train immediately, only to have to redo the mission. So I can't comment on IV's story. I liked RDR's and SA's though.

 

[SJRB]

I always felt that Niko was a scumbag because he was made into one, he had no choice. He really tries not to resort to violence at the start of the game, but once he starts associating with Vlad things go from bad to worse.

That being said, the turning point from "I don't want to do this" to "I'll fucking kill anyone as long as you pay me" comes pretty swiftly, that could've used more time to develop.


Overall GTAIV is still one of the best games I've ever played. I enjoyed its more bleak and grim atmosphere a lot.

 

[sappyday]

As said before, R* have good set-ups but terrible executions. The exception being Red Dead where the execution was alright.

Hopefully GTA V changes that but we'll have to see.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Gay Tony is a better character than Nico Bellic.

Also, 4's main story needed to be way shorter.

 

[dropbear]

It has its issues, as do most video games, given the infancy of the medium, but that doesn't keep me from appreciating what they tried to do with the narrative.

The real problems stem from the overblown praise right out of the gate that displayed a lack of journalistic maturity (or integrity...?) followed by the overblown vitriol in response that continues to this day.

This game rarely receives the measured evaluation it probably deserves, given its high-profile nature.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Gay Tony was so much fun, i loved it to bits. The missions were fun, the mission system with ranking and restarts was excelent and the proper evolution GTA4 lacked and of course Yusuf! The best character in GTA history.

 

[QaaQer]

It has its issues, as do most video games, given the infancy of the medium, but that doesn't keep me from appreciating what they tried to do with the narrative.

The real problems stem from the overblown praise right out of the gate that displayed a lack of journalistic maturity (or integrity...?) followed by the overblown vitriol in response that continues to this day.

This game rarely receives the measured evaluation it probably deserves, given its high-profile nature.

.

I enjoyed it. Good cast of secondary characters as well, brucie, the rasta guy, etc.

 

[Plywood]

Niko looks better in the art, but everyone looked like shit in the game so.. eh.

 

[toadsworth]

A lot of the characters were very bland 'criminals' with no depth really. The story was disjointed in only giving a few missions for some characters and not really giving any narrative but just more people to shoot. At times I wasn't really sure why I was even killing people or getting these drugs for that guy.

BOGT was much more entertaining and provided a lot of interesting conversations with people and their problems. The gameplay was more varied as well...

 

[Robot Pants]

4s story was pretty fucking great up through the mission "Crime and Punishment". After that it fell off kinda hard. Amazing spots would show up here and there but I agree it needed to be shorter.

The Lost and Damned was decent but I didn't like the ending very much.

Ballad of Gay Tony was pretty perfect.

 

[RdN]

It always annoyed me how he was always complaining about lack of money in the story when I had tons of money already..

 

[Neiteio]

COUSIN LET'S GO GRAB AMERICAN TITTIES

 

[Brainfreeze]

I liked it then. From what I remember, I still like it. It's not amazing or mind blowing, but considering some of the Oscar-winners in the past, I actually totally think GTA IV would be worth a nomination.

 

[jsnepo]

Gay Tony is a better character than Nico Bellic.

Also, 4's main story needed to be way shorter.

Gay Tony or Luis?

 

[KAP151]

As much as I liked Niko, 2 DLC's were miles and away better.

I really enjoyed LATD. It had a great story and I felt like I was riding the wave with him. Ending was sad, but justified.

Gay Tony on the other hand, felt a lot more light hearted.

I though they way they inter-weaved missions from one game and spread it across all three was fantastic. And to cram all that content into the same game world was quite a feat.

I must of got 300+ hours from them and can honestly say they contained some of the best moments from this gen.

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I really like Niko. I think IV had a pretty good story, but it also had the problem of being a 20 hour game and not a 2 hour movie. I really liked the three interwoven stories they told with the DLC.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I find Rockstar's writing in general to be laughably shitty. GTA4 was the first to not have the excuse of "well, it's the gameplay that makes it fun..."

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Gay Tony is a better character than Nico Bellic.

Also, 4's main story needed to be way shorter.

Are you comparing a NPC to the player character?

 

[nbthedude]

I actually liked Lost & Damned way better than Vanilla GTA IV or Gay Tony.

It was less apologetic in its brutality, told a great story about the disentegration of a biker gang and did a great job exploring the (often stupid and sometimes contradictory) ethos by which it was run. Even the love interest plot line was handled with relevant sophistication with her slipping back into her drug addiction and becoming more and more a drag on Johnny and basically just using him for a sucker by the end.

Gay Tony was good too but the presentation of that character in the base game left a bad taste in my mouth. The character you actually played was also way less interesting and that game had a problem with ludonarrative dissonance like the base game, that didnt seem as much of a problem with Lost and Damned. The characters in Lost & Damned were not good people and the game didnt feel the need to do anything other than tell the story like it was. Best of the GTA games in my opinion.

 

[Vire]

The most offensive moment in video game journalism history.

Fuck you Hilary Goldstein.

 

[Neiteio]

The most offensive moment in video game journalism history.

Fuck you Hilary Goldstein.

Goldstein is a Jewish name, I see how it is

 

[Vire]

Goldstein is a Jewish name, I see how it is

I'm Jewish myself (well by birth at least from my mother), he still has no credibility.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

I've no idea why I couldn't get into GTAIV, I played the intro and drove to the guys house at the start. the whole thing was rainy and depressing and I switched it off.

I've no idea why I'm excited for GTAV. Honestly I want the dude from 3 back. such a robot.

 

[Buckethead]

IV is a great story.

It's the story of Niko Bellic fighting for his soul, a fight he loses either way.

It's dark as fuck. I find it funny that everyone wanted an "underground GTA" and they finally got one and they hated it.

 

[Neiteio]

I'm Jewish myself (well by birth at least from my mother), he still has no credibility.

How do I know you weren't a particularly precocious infant and converted to Judaism at a young age so you could make anti-Semitic remarks and get away with it?

 

[cdkee]

I honestly thought it was pretty good. Sometimes it's the stuff you need to dig for. Many missions, during driving sequences, had some truly good and thoughtful dialog. Mainly the ones with Niko's girlfriends I think. You'd get the view of the rich snobby girl, the lawyer who wants to help everyone, or even Kate. I always thought those dialogs were pretty good and interesting. So much so that I would often times find myself just driving around so that I could fully listen to the conversation between the characters...I felt like each character had their own problems and personalities, and the fact that most if not all of them had no way to solve their issues was dark and depressing...but realistic.

I thought the game was excellent.

 

[SJRB]

Goldstein is a Jewish name, I see how it is

...what the hell does this mean?

 

[Neiteio]

...what the hell does this mean?

I was joking, you butt-jester.

(Got that phrase from Jim Sterling, god bless 'im.)

 

[Relativ9]

A fantastic video on why the GTA IV storyline is so important and meaningful to gaming: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4LbbBVejosE

 

[Amagon]

Manny Escuela was a useless character. Little Jacob is the shit and I loathe Niko.

 

[Neiteio]

I wasn't able to connect with any of the characters because I kept spinelessly killing whoever I was told to kill.

RDR nearly came across the same problem but did more to drive home how fucked John's situation was (family being kidnapped and all).

 

[chriskun]

I remember hearing all the praise from critics on release day of this game, and then playing through it and thinking "what the fuck were they talking about". Meeting up with an NPC and playing shitty minigames is character developement? Are you fucking kidding me?

 

[JWong]

GTAIV started extremely boring, so I never even finished the game or played the DLC.

V looks better, but I doubt it'll be better than San Andreas.

 

[PK Gaming]

I always felt that Niko was a scumbag because he was made into one, he had no choice. He really tries not to resort to violence at the start of the game, but once he starts associating with Vlad things go from bad to worse.

That being said, the turning point from "I don't want to do this" to "I'll fucking kill anyone as long as you pay me" comes pretty swiftly, that could've used more time to develop.

I agree

If they had only spent a little more time developing his character he would have been so much better.

 

[CecilRousso]

I always felt that Niko was a scumbag because he was made into one, he had no choice. He really tries not to resort to violence at the start of the game, but once he starts associating with Vlad things go from bad to worse.

That being said, the turning point from "I don't want to do this" to "I'll fucking kill anyone as long as you pay me" comes pretty swiftly, that could've used more time to develop.

This, and it's the same thing with every single game story that is supposed to show this kind of development. While Rockstar should at least get some credit for giving him a background that explains how he knows to handle all these weapons, it's still beyond stupid.

The story in GTAIV is not good. It might have some scenes and small parts that are, but the overall story is not good at all.

 

[Buckethead]

Manny Escuela was a useless character.

Could be said about most characters in the game, actually.

 

[Amagon]

Could be said about most characters in the game, actually.

Well, he sticks out the most for me. Also Elizabeta as well.

 

[Dead Man]

"Oscar Worthy" was always stupid, but I really enjoyed Niko as a character and liked the story a lot. Ludo-narrative dissonance aside.

That said, the game needed an editor and it needed to be shorter. There's a very good plot in GTA4 but's it's buried under at least half of the game being filler. I hope that GTA5 is a tighter experience because this is a common issue with Rockstar's narratives.

Yeah, the plot isn't the problem in GTA4, it is all the shit that they covered it in.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I liked the idea behind Niko: traumatized war vet forced into life of crime. His actor put in a great performance. But some of the writing with him was such a turn-off.

 

[firehawk12]

Lost and the Damned was the best GTA4 property. The base game had some interesting ideas, but 30 hours of the same shitty missions really left a sour taste. Niko could have been an interesting character, but they couldn't decide if they wanted it to be a serious take on being an immigrant in NYC or stupid-wacky like GTA:SA... so characters like Brucie and the flamboyantly and perhaps offensively gay friend were just a bit much.

Also, and I know GAF hates this, but "ludonarrative dissonance".

Lost and the Damned, on the other hand, by virtue of being a short, contained experience (and the bikes being better to drive than the cars), was perfect. The tone was right, without too much stupidity to ruin the somewhat serious story it was trying to tell, and the characters were much more nuanced.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Gay Tony was so much fun, i loved it to bits. The missions were fun, the mission system with ranking and restarts was excelent and the proper evolution GTA4 lacked and of course Yusuf! The best character in GTA history.

He was a good character, but I just can't stand Omid Djahli. His schtick is so one note.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Lost and the Damned was the best GTA4 property. The base game had some interesting ideas, but 30 hours of the same shitty missions really left a sour taste. Niko could have been an interesting character, but they couldn't decide if they wanted it to be a serious take on being an immigrant in NYC or stupid-wacky like GTA:SA... so characters like Brucie and the flamboyantly and perhaps offensively gay friend were just a bit much.

Also, and I know GAF hates this, but "ludonarrative dissonance".

Lost and the Damned, on the other hand, by virtue of being a short, contained experience (and the bikes being better to drive than the cars), was perfect. The tone was right, without too much stupidity to ruin the somewhat serious story it was trying to tell, and the characters were much more nuanced.

Ludonarrative dissonance is generally not something I have a problem with. I will mow down a thousand pirates or mercs or secret cult agents without batting an eye in Uncharted.

But something about the way that it was presented in Niko's story honestly bugged me. That might have been the only time where I legitimately felt the disconnect.

 

[firehawk12]

Ludonarrative dissonance is generally not something I have a problem with. I will mow down a thousand pirates or mercs or secret cult agents without batting an eye in Uncharted.

But something about the way that it was presented in Niko's story honestly bugged me. That might have been the only time where I legitimately felt the disconnect.

Yeah, after all these years, I still remember this one scene.

It's where Niko confronts his old commander and you are given the choice to execute him or let him go. I decided to let him go and it turned out to be this emotional scene where Niko was essentially letting go of his grudge and moving on with his life. Yet, as Niko and his cousin are talking about what happened, I carjack some poor sap and start running over people on the sidewalk.

The game wanted to have its serious moments, but they almost never payed off because the gameplay let you ruin them. It's like how in Half Life you can just walk around and smash them with a crowbar while people are trying to talk to you.

 

[jorma]

GTA IV was a pretty good game all in all, and Niko was a great character that i enjoyed playing as. If GTA V is as good or better, i'll be content.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

If any of the characters in V try to wax philisophical I think I'll just switch off the game. For a murderous criminal, Niko sure had a lot of opinion on what makes a man a man.