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LOST 06.05: "Lighthouse" (Ben has been Claire'd for this week)

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rohlfinator said:
How is he supposed to age ~7 years over the course of a few weeks? I know they play around with time a lot on the show, but there's been no indication that Aaron has any sort of "powers" and every indication that Jacob does.


That would be pretty awesome.

I'm not sure if the theory holds up though -- like, how did Jacob watch himself meeting the Losties?
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Quoting the NYTimes Lost Timeline:

Jacob is Slain*

Soon after the crash of Ajira 316, on the main island, Ben was persuaded to kill Jacob by the reincarnated Locke, who was revealed to be the man in black, Jacob's longtime opponent .

*The series's time cues conflict: these events could have happened in January 2008. The "Lost creators refer to the time only as "island present"
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Is it possible that after the flash, the Dharma-crashers landed in the 70s and the rest of the flight landed a few years in to the future?

LOST
 
Why do people want me to spoiler tag Dead and Deader? They've both already been in the season, and they were both announced at Comic Con, a very public event, as being signed for multiple episodes. Im not spoiling anything a LOST fan doesnt already know.
 
btw, didn't Claire hint that she had been on the island way longer than 3 years?

L-L-L-LOST COMBO

edit: fucking Solo with the motherfucking combo breaker. fml.
 
I could go either way on the flashbacks/Jacob theory. It gives those scenes even greater purpose in the story, like those were moments that were important to their candidacy or something. But it does feel too much like mixing the main plot with the meta, and kinda retcon-y. The flashbacks were just for us to learn more about the characters, bringing Jacob into that mix kind of complicates things.

If it is though, there would be no doubt in my mind that Jacob crossed Charlie's name out after seeing him film a commercial in a diaper.
 
Solo said:
Why do people want me to spoiler tag Boone and Charlie? They've both already been in the season, and they were both announced at Comic Con, a very public event, as being signed for multiple episodes. Im not spoiling anything a LOST fan doesnt already know.
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I guess I'd been lucky enough to avoid that info - not a huge deal, though.
 
gdt5016 said:
I don't see how Losties=Numbers is a retcon. We've never gotten any information on the Numbers in the first place! Thats them revealing/tying together mythology.
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Yeah, I'd definitely like to see some more conclusion to the numbers, even if it's as simple as "Jacob likes these six numbers and specifically used them to manipulate people through history". They've been too prominent for them to just be brushed off as a giant set of coincidences. (Also why I think 108=Wallace will have major significance.)

Chipopo said:
Is it possible that after the flash, the Dharma-crashers landed in the 70s and the rest of the flight landed a few years in to the future?
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Good call, I hadn't considered that. I guess we haven't really been given confirmation about their current time, and it would fit with the whole "time bubble" around the island that Faraday was measuring in S4.
 
Solo said:
They've both already been in the season, and they were both announced at Comic Con, a very public event, as being signed for multiple episodes. Im not spoiling anything a LOST fan doesnt already know.
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I didn't know.
 
Solo said:
Why do people want me to spoiler tag
Boone and Charlie? They've both already been in the season
, and they were both announced at Comic Con, a very public event, as being signed for multiple episodes. Im not spoiling anything a LOST fan doesnt already know.
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Thinking everyone pays as close of attention as you do is kind of silly. It's just better to think of the people who don't know these things. Putting a spoiler tag around names like I just did isn't that big of a deal to do. Because you did just spoil it for someone, whether or not it's a big spoiler.

Edit: Make that two people. :P
 
gdt5016 said:
I don't see how Losties=Numbers is a retcon. We've never gotten any information on the Numbers in the first place! Thats them revealing/tying together mythology.

And Jacob watching the Losties=Flashbacks wouldn't be a retcon either, seeing as the Flashes have never ever been part of the story. It's not like the Losties have ever said "hey, let me tell you a story..." and the FLASH.
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With the numbers I think it just seems way too convenient. There is absolutely no way they had thought up the candidates when they first introduced the numbers in season 1. Absolutely no way. The candidates are clearly something they thought up in season 3 at the earliest when they first started to interact with Jacob and even that is being extremely generous. Realistically they probably didn't think them up till they started to write season 5. If the numbers end up being special simply because they correspond to candidates, I don't see how you could argue that's not a retcon.

But then again as I said before, I think the numbers showing up on Jacob's list are just another coincidental spot where the numbers end up, not the source of their uniqueness.

The thing about the mirrors is just pointless and not worth discussing.
 
Solo said:
Fine, Ill tag the first post for paranoid-for-no-real-reason posters.
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I admit it wasn't that spoilery since they've both already appeared, but I honestly didn't think we'd see them again.
 
Panda Bear said:
With the numbers I think it just seems way too convenient. There is absolutely no way they had thought up the candidates when they first introduced the numbers in season 1. Absolutely no way.
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But...so what? If they didn't plan it in S1 it's worthless? If fits fine now, and they'll add more to make it fit even better.



The candidates are clearly something they thought up in season 3 at the earliest when they first started to interact with Jacob and even that is being extremely generous. If the numbers end up being special simply because they correspond to candidates, I don't see how you could argue that's not a retcon.
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How can they retcon something they've never explained?!
 
thekad said:
I admit it wasn't that spoilery since they've both already appeared, but I honestly didn't think we'd see them again.
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Even if it did spoil things for you, what does it matter? Does that ruin your viewing experience in any way at all? You know these flash sideways are going to continue, and you know random people from the series are going to keep showing up in them. Is it that much of a reveal that those two will be back? Come on.
 
Panda Bear said:
With the numbers I think it just seems way too convenient. There is absolutely no way they had thought up the candidates when they first introduced the numbers in season 1. Absolutely no way. The candidates are clearly something they thought up in season 3 at the earliest when they first started to interact with Jacob and even that is being extremely generous. Realistically they probably didn't think them up till they started to write season 5. If the numbers end up being special simply because they correspond to candidates, I don't see how you could argue that's not a retcon.

But then again as I said before, I think the numbers showing up on Jacob's list are just another coincidental spot where the numbers end up, not the source of their uniqueness.

The thing about the mirrors is just pointless and not worth discussing.
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By your definition, your avatar's a retcon. Faraday wasn't Eloise's son when she was introduced.

Panda Bear said:
Even if it did spoil things for you, what does it matter? Does that ruin your viewing experience in any way at all? You know these flash sideways are going to continue, and you know random people from the series are going to keep showing up in them. Is it that much of a reveal that those two will be back? Come on.
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You're right. Let me go look up finale spoilers.
 
gdt5016 said:
I don't see how Losties=Numbers is a retcon. We've never gotten any information on the Numbers in the first place! Thats them revealing/tying together mythology.

And Jacob watching the Losties=Flashbacks wouldn't be a retcon either, seeing as the Flashes have never ever been part of the story. It's not like the Losties have ever said "hey, let me tell you a story..." and the FLASH.
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These are elements that have been with the show from the start and, in the case of the numbers, are now being retconned in order to fit the current plot line.

Some sort of retconning is necessary in a show like Lost to answer some of the questions and tie things together, but it can also be blatant, such as with the numbers.
 
Panda Bear said:
Even if it did spoil things for you, what does it matter? Does that ruin your viewing experience in any way at all? You know these flash sideways are going to continue, and you know random people from the series are going to keep showing up in them. Is it that much of a reveal that those two will be back? Come on.
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Silly logic. Some people want to be completely spoiler free. No matter how big or small, what you consider to be okay, another person might not. It's better to respect that than to argue it, as arguing it pointless. I think it's silly to consider episode titles spoilers. Yet I spoiler tag them because others consider them to be. It's inconsiderate otherwise.

And also, we don't know if they will pop up in the flash-sideways or on the island and some people might find it better to be completely surprised. It's not that hard of a concept.
 
Panda Bear said:
Even if it did spoil things for you, what does it matter? Does that ruin your viewing experience in any way at all? You know these flash sideways are going to continue, and you know random people from the series are going to keep showing up in them. Is it that much of a reveal that those two will be back? Come on.
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I think it's nice being surprised by appearances. Going into LA X unspoiled was excellent in that regard. It doesn't amount to much in terms of the overall enjoyment of the show, but if I can choose between knowing and not knowing, I'll choose not.
 
Zeliard said:
These are elements that have been with the show from the start and, in the case of the numbers, are now being retconned in order to fit the current plot line.

Some sort of retconning is necessary in a show like Lost to answer some of the questions and tie things together, but it can also be blatant, such as with the numbers.
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But it's not a retcon if they haven't given ANY previous information on it!



Will it be a retcon when they reveal what the Island is? They haven't given any information on that, much like the Numbers (until a few episodes ago).
 
gdt5016 said:
But...so what? If they didn't plan it in S1 it's worthless? If fits fine now, and they'll add more to make it fit even better.
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For me personally it removes a lot of the meaning of things we saw initially from the numbers because if this is the reason the numbers are special, they clearly didn't have an answer for that mystery. So basically we were led along like little faithful John Lockes until they finally thought something up at the end of the show. It just feels cheap.

How can they retcon something they've never explained?!
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The Valenzetti Equation was always reason enough for me. Darlton have said the the Equation is indeed canon. It explains where the numbers originated and why they appear everywhere in the DI. I can accept that maybe as numbers in a doomsday equation they were "cursed." For me that's all that was needed. Now they try to bring the numbers back as if this candidate thing was the reason the whole time. As I said, it just feels cheap and unnecessary.

This is all of course assuming the candidates are the source of the numbers and not just another place they coincidentally pop up, which I'm not so sure I do.

Salmonax said:
I think it's nice being surprised by appearances. Going into LA X unspoiled was excellent in that regard. It doesn't amount to much in terms of the overall enjoyment of the show, but if I can choose between knowing and not knowing, I'll choose not.
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omg rite said:
Silly logic. Some people want to be completely spoiler free. No matter how big or small, what you consider to be okay, another person might not. It's better to respect that than to argue it, as arguing it pointless. I think it's silly to consider episode titles spoilers. Yet I spoiler tag them because others consider them to be. It's inconsiderate otherwise.

And also, we don't know if they will pop up in the flash-sideways or on the island and some people might find it better to be completely surprised. It's not that hard of a concept.
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Fair enough guys, I didn't think about it like that. I take it back.
 
Zeliard said:
These are elements that have been with the show from the start and, in the case of the numbers, are now being retconned in order to fit the current plot line.
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But, the numbers haven't had any sort of explanation. At all. Until now. How that can be considered a retcon is beyond me. A retcon occurs when a storyteller deliberately changes the facts around to better suit some new direction or whatever. I can't say that about the numbers.

They might have said off-show that the numbers have something to do with that equation but that still is not anything of an explanation about their actual role in the storyline. And it is certainly not a retcon.

I can't comment on whether or not they didn't know what they were going to do with the numbers (none of us can, sensibly) but for me personally they seem to be fitting in perfectly well with the story this season, and nothing about it so far negates anything we knew about the numbers prior-- because we didn't really know anything about the numbers prior.
 
gdt5016 said:
But it's not a retcon if they haven't given ANY previous information on it!
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A retcon changes facts, and we've seen the numbers in places that don't mesh with what they've been shown to be and used for. Why would Dharma use those exact numbers, and why would they happen to pick 108 as the number for the countdown clock in the hatch? It makes no sense considering what we're seeing the numbers used as now.

With the producers having also previously said that the numbers have no real meaning, it seems very likely that this was thought up relatively recently in the show's run as the "answer" to them. It's not a retcon in the way we typically think of it because it's not making a drastic change, but it does change some facts around and doesn't quite make sense with some of the earlier show. The smoke monster has this same problem in some ways, but they've dealt with him well so far.
 
Zeliard said:
A retcon changes facts, and we've seen the numbers in places that don't mesh with what they've been shown to be and used for. Why would Dharma use those exact numbers, and why would they happen to pick 108 as the number for the countdown clock in the hatch? It makes no sense considering what we're seeing the numbers used as now.

With the producers having also previously said that the numbers have no real meaning, it seems very likely that this was thought up relatively recently in the show's run as the "answer" to them. It's not a retcon in the way we typically think of it because it's not making a drastic change, but it does change some facts around and doesn't quite make sense with some of the earlier show. The smoke monster has this same problem in some ways, but they've dealt with him well so far.
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But we've seen the Numbers appear a billion times, even aside from Dharma/The Island (clocks, money, microwaves, etc etc etc).

I've always figured something made the Numbers "special" and thats why they kept showing up.

We just found out Jacob chose those Numbers, and because of him, the Numbers are special and appear often in and around The Losties.
 
Zeliard said:
A retcon changes facts, and we've seen the numbers in places that don't mesh with what they've been shown to be and used for. Why would Dharma use those exact numbers, and why would they happen to pick 108 as the number for the countdown clock in the hatch? It makes no sense considering what we're seeing the numbers used as now.

With the producers having also previously said that the numbers have no real meaning, it seems very likely that this was thought up relatively recently in the show's run as the "answer" to them. It's not a retcon in the way we typically think of it because it's not making a drastic change, but it does change some facts around and doesn't quite make sense with some of the earlier show. The smoke monster has this same problem in some ways, but they've dealt with him well so far.
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It doesn't seem consistent at all, which is why I'm fairly confident that there is a connection and it will be explained before the season's end. If they are putting the numbers back into focus that would be a pretty glaring inconsistency to leave behind.
 
gdt5016 said:
But we've seen the Numbers appear a billion times, even aside from Dharma/The Island (clocks, money, microwaves, etc etc etc).

I've always figured something made the Numbers "special" and thats why they kept showing up.

We just found out Jacob chose those Numbers, and because of him, the Numbers are special and appear often in and around The Losties.
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Jacob couldn't control the mileage on Hurleys car. THERE HAS TO BE MORE!!!
 
Zeliard said:
With the producers having also previously said that the numbers have no real meaning, it seems very likely that this was thought up relatively recently in the show's run as the "answer" to them.
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If by recently, you mean sometime around mid-S3 when the end date was set. I don't think they got to S6, realized "oh shit we forgot to explain the numbers!", and started making up stuff about caves and lighthouses.

I'll buy that they didn't have a complete plan for the numbers when they were first introduced in S1, but if that's the case then by your definition any explanation is going to be a retcon.
 
silentspork said:
It doesn't seem consistent at all, which is why I'm fairly confident that there is a connection and it will be explained before the season's end. If they are putting the numbers back into focus that would be a pretty glaring inconsistency to leave behind.
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They said on the podcast to expect more on the numbers, but it didn't sound like there will be much more.
 
If anyone would like to read my colleague's thoughts and intepretations of the last episode of Lost, then have at it =)

LostZone: Claire’s (Freaky? Psychotic!?) Return and Sideways Significance with Jack Shephard

Claire as a French Woman

“The part of Danielle Rousseau will now be played by…” Alright, so Claire’s Other-hunting, Aaron-seeking escapade didn’t completely mirror the life and death of the island’s leading French woman. But, like Rousseau, Claire looks like she could use a shower. She believes the Others have taken her child (not true for Claire, though it was in Rousseau’s case). And she’s willing to kill anyone responsible, and will likely shoot anyone who stands in her way.

The biggest differences, of course, are (1) it didn’t appear that Rousseau was “infected,” and (2) Rousseau wasn’t friends with the Man Formerly Known as Locke.

If you noticed that the word “infected” is still being written with quotation marks around it, there’s a reason for that: I’m not yet convinced that Claire is truly sick or infected with anything. The Others are notorious liars – Claire wasn’t wrong to assume that her hostage would have killed her if given the opportunity. We know from experience with Ethan (who was so dedicated to “helping” Claire’s baby that he hung Charlie by the neck and left him for dead), Goodwin (who had no qualms about killing castaways), Ben and virtually every Other we’ve encountered that they will kill anyone. “We’re the good guys” doesn’t mean much of anything when they’re the ones pulling the trigger.

Which begs the question: why should we believe the Others now?

Whether Claire is sick or not, however, doesn’t change the fact that she is friends with a madman. She wouldn’t actually say his name, which is probably a clue to who she believes he is – and perhaps who she sees when she looks at him. Could it be that Fake Locke has the power to disguise his image to her? And if so, does this go back to my original theory that the infection is merely a way for New Locke to influence/take control of someone?
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Bolded the most unique idea he had about last week's episode that I had not heard/read before
 
Salmonax said:
And was Vincent infected in that Missing Pieces clip with Christian?
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And Sun and frank and Locke all saw christian too.

I thought it was pretty obvious she was seeing someone else when she said "that's not locke", particularly since she hadn't seen him in Locke form before that moment.
 
master15 said:
I swear the writing as a whole never has managed to hit the same high standards as Season 1. Some of the scripting is down right embarassing, and there was so many little winks and nods that the episode was bordering on a parody at times.

I don't even want to touch the Claire scene, god that was fucking awful...
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Solo said:
Well, they did lose their best writer after S1. You cant just replace David Fury.
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:lol :lol I agree.. S1 for life lol, Fury was the reason why, but, I still think the writing as a series has been spectacular. A lot of the reason S1 was soo great for me, was the actor's were better then. I'm not saying that Josh/and Evi's boat dock scene, or Foxy and Terry's airport scene were bad, they were great, but the writing and acting was better in S1,
 
neoism said:
:lol :lol I agree.. S1 for life lol, Fury was the reason why, but, I still think the writing as a series has been spectacular. A lot of the reason S1 was soo great for me, was the actor's were better then. I'm not saying that Josh/and Evi's boat dock scene, or Foxy and Terry's airport scene were bad, they were great, but the writing and acting was better in S1,
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That explains alot (that they are missing a S1 writer). Like you said it's still been great, but not S1 :)
 
sn1pes said:
Very true :D
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fut-1.png
 
My theories are shifting a lot from episode to episode.
I know no one cares, and I know that its probably already been said by others... but here I go again anyway.

CURRENT THEORY:
-Jack is not a candidate. Christian is. He "wasn't on jacob's list" and was instead simply needed to operate on Ben. "He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us."
-Christian ain't dead.
-Jacob and Smokey are both rotten and Jack (not being a candidate) is gonna be the man to shut them BOTH down.
-Smokey can't kill candidates and this is gonna play into the "judging" role he plays.
 
neoism said:
:lol :lol I agree.. S1 for life lol, Fury was the reason why, but, I still think the writing as a series has been spectacular. A lot of the reason S1 was soo great for me, was the actor's were better then. I'm not saying that Josh/and Evi's boat dock scene, or Foxy and Terry's airport scene were bad, they were great, but the writing and acting was better in S1,
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To be fair, it's a different show. It's almost like saying "Return of the King doesn't have as much soul or heart as Fellowship of The rings does" it's not supposed to. The final act tends to take on a much different tone than the first. We're no longer getting to know these characters, we're dealing with all of the shit they've gone through and continue to go through.

When powering through the series, there was a very natural progression. I don't like to look at as seasons, usually, rather one story.
 
The numbers appearing everywhere is just a motif. Expecting every appearance of the numbers in the show to tie into something and be explained will only lead to disappointment. Most of them don't have any greater meaning, Jacob and MIB didn't travel around adjusting stuff just so the numbers could appear everywhere. They're just there.

I'm sure they didn't have the meaning of the numbers in mind from the start, but the reveal of what they mean doesn't mean it suddenly doesn't make sense for them to pop up all over the place.
 
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