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LPVG Report: Nintendo Switch Dock Doesn’t Support External USB Drives

Schnozberry said:
A hard drive attached to the dock would ruin the entire concept of the switch. With MicroSD you simply undock and take your games with you. A hard drive attached to the dock would mean transferring the game to the tablet for portable use. It would take ages and be both frustrating and confusing for people who had been sold on the reveal.

MicroSD is infinitely better than proprietary storage.
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No it wouldn't the type of people that were sold on the intial reveal wouldn't be using external hardrives with their switches to store all their digital games in the first place. The type of people this would expect are the sort of people that visit had and would likely be aware of this issue on some is.

I'm still not convinced this is true of the retail product either way as those usb that are protruding from the front would be utterly useless
 
Father_Brain said:
Switch was never going to get more than a handful of those games regardless of hardware performance or storage capacity, because Nintendo hasn't made any serious effort to target the primary demographic for such titles in over a decade and a half.

That doesn't mean there aren't obvious downsides to this, of course, but let's be realistic.
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I'm playing just devil's advocate really. I know it won't but there are people that were and still are convinced that it will because 'ahhh Skyrim!!". This is just further proof that the majority of AAA games are off the table for Switch, if the specs didn't hit that point home enough already.
 
Pathetic storage plus no external drive? Good job killing any interest that I had left, I give zero fucks about cartridges.

256GB is ridiculous, 500GB wasn't enough.

Edit: People are already defending this saying "well, just get multiple SD cards"? Holy shit.
 
bomblord1 said:
I think this is the inherent issue they are trying to avoid.

Someone is playing Zelda from the external drive. They then walk up to the system and remove it from the dock.

What happens here?

Worst case scenario if the game is writing to the drive for some reason (ex a game save) you could corrupt your data and have to re-download the entire game and start from scratch all your save data gone.

Best case scenario? The game will run in memory until it needs to read new data at which point your game will crash the switch will throw an error and you've lost all your progress since the last save.

Let's not pretend consumers wouldn't try this especially after seeing the trailer.

It also destroys the simplicity of use that was shown in the original trailer. Now I have to somehow transfer my games to the internal memory to take it on the go. Barring how many additional steps this would take in the first place you still are going to have wait for the transfer to happen. If my dog needs to be taken out he's going to have to wait however long it takes to transfer a 32+GB game from a HDD to an SD card.

I think this is a smart decision.
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Bingo. You don't launch something like this (especially after what happened with the Wii U) and not try to paint the clearest picture possible. At least initially. Later, after everyone has had personal experience with it, they may add that functionality later.

Doing this at launch would equal disaster at some end.
 
I understand why, and I don't mind, but I'm really curious how much storage it'll have, and how much it'll support.

32GB should be enough for most Nintendo games as their patches are fairly small and I'm not going digital anyways, but 3th party games might be a different story. And large/fast SD cards still aren't really cheap either.
 
Makes sense. Just get a big SD card and be done with it. Though again, a lot is going to depend on game sizes and the patches and updates. Nintendo's file system and patching strategy is going to need to be good though.

I will be buying the retail carts for most games anyway, then just download some smaller stuff, indie etc.
 
StereoVsn said:
1. I was talking about 256GB cards. Yes, there is a single Sandisk 200mb card for $70 which has fairly low performance. I actually bought that card and returned it back to Amazon as writing performance was terrible for me.
2. SD life is not comparable to SSDs and not even close to HDDs (now, QA failure rates on those in RAID drives is a diff question). If you look at more decent SSDs, you can get 500TB guaranteed writes or so on 512GB SSD (higher for enterprise drives, but in general same idea with cells eventually going bad even with SSD overprovisioning). You are not getting that on an SD card as these in general utilize cheaper memory types (or you can spring for paying $300-500 for that 256GB card).
3. 256GB is limited considering Nintendo is pushing Switch as a console not 3DS replacement (according to Nintendo). Hell, they are not even officially supporting 256GB. That's enough for 1st and 2nd party output as well as 3

As far as options, well, the obvious one is to skip buying Switch considering the limitations.
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1 - There are multiple brands but I find your feedback on the 200GB valuable

2 - we need more hard data on this but it does stand to reason that an SSD/HDD would last longer on average. Still I think the operating life on a good card is indeed within comparable ranges.

3 - I agree with you here. Switch is a weird compromise. A massive leap in the portable space and a modest leap above WiiU in the console space.... hmmm still seems awesome to me. I have a PS4 already. Switch gives me what Vita is slowly failing to provide anymore.
 
EVH said:
Sony never defined Vita or made Vita a "separate home console", that is just bullshit you guys are trying to smack in your heads to believe you have a point.
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q:80
 
Plum said:
Have you never heard of this or do you just think it doesn't count? If so, why?
Click to expand...

You mean an addon that appeared late on the game? If you feel better, I think that Vita TV, a dead on arrival device, not having HDD support sucks also, but OK, you are right and Nintendo not having many options for storage has nothing to do with the difference on sales and benefits between them and Sony.
 
Wait, people actually wanted this? Get yourself a big SD card son. It's not that hard to do. I have like 80 3DS games downloaded on my 32gig SD card (most are not full size retail games to be fair).
 
MatrixMan.EXE said:
I'm playing just devil's advocate really....This is just further proof that the majority of AAA games are off the table for Switch, if the specs didn't hit that point home enough already.
Click to expand...

Devils advocate is arguing a position you don't really agree with, not inventing new reasons to reinforce your existing position.

As for your statement, taken to its logical extremes, which console is going to suffer more in the marketplace?
- Has no digital games, physical retail only.
- Has no physical retail games, digital only.

Because your argument suggests that the market is currently in a position where having no digital availability is worse than having no retail availability.
Which is - frankly - horse shit.
 
Principate said:
No it wouldn't the type of people that were sold on the intial reveal wouldn't be using external hardrives with their switches to store all their digital games in the first place. The type of people this would expect are the sort of people that visit had and would likely be aware of this issue on some is.

I'm still not convinced this is true of the retail product either way as those usb that are protruding from the front would be utterly useless
Click to expand...

I think autocorrect minced your first sentence. Nintendo can't win in this case. If they allow external drives, the first time someone disconnects their switch from the dock and loses hours worth of progress, someone will create a GAF thread about how stupid it is. Might as well get the LOL Nintendo shit out of the way now. SD Cards are a better choice for a hybrid console. End of story.

The USB ports could be used to charge controllers or for other accessories.
 
LordRaptor said:
Devils advocate is arguing a position you don't really agree with, not inventing new reasons to reinforce your existing position.

As for your statement, taken to its logical extremes, which console is going to suffer more in the marketplace?
- Has no digital games, physical retail only.
- Has no physical retail games, digital only.

Because your argument suggests that the market is currently in a position where having no digital availability is worse than having no retail availability.
Which is - frankly - horse shit.
Click to expand...

Seriously I don't understand at all the leap some people are making that there will be no AAA games or whatever you want to classify as that because there are no USB hard drives. That makes no sense. As if digital is the only way or even the primary way people buy games. Then there is the ignoring of the actual storage solution. WTF!?
 
Principate said:
No it wouldn't the type of people that were sold on the intial reveal wouldn't be using external hardrives with their switches to store all their digital games in the first place. The type of people this would expect are the sort of people that visit had and would likely be aware of this issue on some is.

I'm still not convinced this is true of the retail product either way as those usb that are protruding from the front would be utterly useless
Click to expand...

USB ports aren't just used for external storage you know. The USB ports would likely be for external peripherals such as charging controllers, Gamecube Adapters, etc.
 
Anth0ny said:
Yup, no surprise for me. How would you rip the switch out of the dock and take it on the go if the game is being run off an external hard drive?

gonna have a lot of micro sds hanging around come switch launch...
Click to expand...

Well they could make it so games can't run off the external hard drive, but you can at least back them up there through a Switch data management app and also use that app to swap games in and out of internal storage/internal SD card.

That would at least prevent needing multiple SD cards or re-downloading things for the all digital crowd.
 
Sad, but hopefully the use of 128gb SDs will soften the blow. I don't plan on getting many digital games on this anyway unless Nintendo really revamps how they handle things on that front, and they're pretty good about games not needing huge patches up front (systems needing patches though, that's a whole other story).
 
EVH said:
You mean an addon that appeared late on the game? If you feel better, I think that Vita TV, a dead on arrival device, not having HDD support sucks also, but OK, you are right and Nintendo not having many options for storage has nothing to do with the difference on sales and benefits between them and Sony.
Click to expand...

How is it an add-on when Sony sold it as a seperate console that doesn't need a PS4 or Vita to run? It's a home console, a smaller one but still a home console, it being DoA doesn't make any difference.

Even then it has less of an excuse than the Switch does for not supporting HDDs because with the Switch it has to juggle between two different form factors that must be accessible instantly at all times, the PSTV is completely seperate from the Vita.

And sales have nothing to do with anything, especially in such an Apples and Oranges comparison as that. Of course Sony's digital sales trump Nintendo's because they're a massive major company, their prices aren't different and both Wii U and 3DS support storage large enough to fit at least 10+ games on.
 
Effect said:
Seriously I don't understand at all the leap people are making that there will be no AAA or whatever you want to classify as that because there are no USB hard drives. That makes no sense. As if digital is the only way or even the primary way you people buy games. Then there is the ignoring of the actual storage solution. WTF!?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a dumb argument.

Even though I don't believe Switch will receive major AAA Western third party support, it will have almost nothing to do with Nintendo's digital storage solution.
 
Not sure what peoples expected? What the use of storage connected to the dock if you can bring your switch with you?


There's microSD cards, and maybe Nintendo will even sell blank cartridges? Blank ones for downloadable content. If the cartridges are cheap enough, i dont see why not.
 
Another disadvantage of being a portable device. Just make a traditional powerhouse console, Nintendo. :-(
 
Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but it really sounds like Nintendo has already fucked up with the Switch. Micro SD is alright for the 3DS, because the games aren't all that big, but current gen games? I didn't think the 500GB the PS4 and Xbox One started with was even enough. And even if you somehow don't have to install because of the cartridge, what about the huge ass patches we have to deal with today? One patch from one game would take up a large percentage of any micro SD that you were to get, and also I don't WANT to have to buy a big ass micro SD card. That's adding nearly $100 to the price of the console.
 
dmaul1114 said:
Well they could make it so games can't run off the external hard drive, but you can at least back them up there through a Switch data management app and also use that app to swap games in and out of internal storage/internal SD card.

That would at least prevent needing multiple SD cards or re-downloading things for the all digital crowd.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think this would be a good compromise. I know you can do that with a PC and an SD card but it just seems like a much greater hassle than allowing external drives for backup purposes.
 
While I am a bit sad, I think this will save a LOT of headaches.

Imagine you are playing Bayoneta 3 and Monster Hunter 5 intermintently and you don't know which one you have on the SD or the HDD. One day you take the switch to go and it corrupts a 150hr save file of Mon Hun, because that's the one on the HDD.
 
Maintenance said:
Pathetic storage plus no external drive? Good job killing any interest that I had left, I give zero fucks about cartridges.

256GB is ridiculous, 500GB wasn't enough.

Edit: People are already defending this saying "well, just get multiple SD cards"? Holy shit.
Click to expand...

Again....how about waiting for the official reveal and, I don't know, some actual info about how the device works other than a some nice aspirational pictures of the device/concept before overreacting.
 
Plum said:
How is it an add-on when Sony sold it as a seperate console that doesn't need a PS4 or Vita to run? It's a home console, a smaller one but still a home console, it being DoA doesn't make any difference.

Even then it has less of an excuse than the Switch does for not supporting HDDs because with the Switch it has to juggle between two different form factors that must be accessible instantly at all times, the PSTV is completely seperate from the Vita.

And sales have nothing to do with anything, especially in such an Apples and Oranges comparison as that. Of course Sony's digital sales trump Nintendo's because they're a massive major company, their prices aren't different and both Wii U and 3DS support storage large enough to fit at least 10+ games on.
Click to expand...

Well I thought it was an addon and that you actually required to have a Vita handheld. Still, being DoA of course makes a difference, we are talking about a complete new platform here that is supossedly coming with a better online infrastructure and should allow all kind of opportunities for the digital sales to grow. Switch has a lot more importance for Nintendo that Vita TV had for Sony.

The juggling between two different form factors is basically similar to having to juggle between two different microSD cards because you cannot fit all your digital games in a 128GB card, which will happen unless Nintendo continues with a crappy and obsolete digital philosophy. In both cases you will have to remove, care about the games you got in that card, and care about the current process having access to that storage.

I guess some people just doesn't like options.
 
The Hermit said:
While I am a bit sad, I think this will save a LOT of headaches.

Imagine you are playing Bayoneta 3 and Monster Hunter 5 intermintently and you don't know which one you have on the SD or the HDD. One day you take the switch to go and it corrupts a 150hr save file of Mon Hun, because that's the one on the HDD.
Click to expand...

Just don't be stupid and that wouldn't happen. I'm not going to remove a blu ray during a game session, and the system would clearly show what is stored on the HDD and what's on the SD, even the Wii U does that.

The_Lump said:
Again....how about waiting for the official reveal and, I don't know, some actual info about how the device works other than a some nice aspirational pictures of the device/concept before overreacting.
Click to expand...

This is a thread about that report, if you're not happy with the discussion either PM a mod or leave.
 
It's insane that people are saying to just buy a big SD card and that should be enough because 3DS and Wii U games were small. Yeah, they had small sizes because they were on extremely underpowered hardware.The only solution for this system is to go 100% physical and pray patches/DLC don't go out of control on space. I can't imagine western 3rd parties focusing on blockbusters will support the switch for long.

I mean, I'll still buy one for nintendo games, but still lol
 
The Hermit said:
While I am a bit sad, I think this will save a LOT of headaches.

Imagine you are playing Bayoneta 3 and Monster Hunter 5 intermintently and you don't know which one you have on the SD or the HDD. One day you take the switch to go and it corrupts a 150hr save file of Mon Hun, because that's the one on the HDD.
Click to expand...

Yep. I understand why people here are a bit upset and think that OF COURSE there should be external HDD support. But Nintendo wants to keep it simple for the average consumer. Shit should just work, you should always be able to play anything you have downloaded in either docked or portable mode. The average consumer don't want to have to "manage their fridge". GAF users are not the average consumer.
 
Maintenance said:
Pathetic storage plus no external drive? Good job killing any interest that I had left, I give zero fucks about cartridges.

256GB is ridiculous, 500GB wasn't enough.

Edit: People are already defending this saying "well, just get multiple SD cards"? Holy shit.
Click to expand...

Honestly, if this is the dealbreaker, you weren't all that interested in the device to begin with. Which is fine, as not everything is meant for everyone. I can understand people being disappointed, but you've clearly moved beyond that.

I'm personally completely fine with buying a handful of Micro SD cards. OMG I'm defending Nintendo, I'm such a fanboy.
 
Maintenance said:
Just don't be stupid and that wouldn't happen. I'm not going to remove a blu ray during a game session, and the system would clearly show what is stored on the HDD and what's on the SD, even the Wii U does that.



This ia a thread about that report, if you're not happy with the discussion either PM a mod or leave.
Click to expand...

difference is the "switch" aspect of the system is their main selling point and the centre of all of their marketing. being able to NOT do that because you're running a game off a USB drive is a bad look for nintendo.

maybe one day they'll release a home only version of switch with usb drive compatibility...
 
StereoVsn said:
1. I was talking about 256GB cards. Yes, there is a single Sandisk 200mb card for $70 which has fairly low performance. I actually bought that card and returned it back to Amazon as writing performance was terrible for me.
2. SD life is not comparable to SSDs and not even close to HDDs (now, QA failure rates on those in RAID drives is a diff question). If you look at more decent SSDs, you can get 500TB guaranteed writes or so on 512GB SSD (higher for enterprise drives, but in general same idea with cells eventually going bad even with SSD overprovisioning). You are not getting that on an SD card as these in general utilize cheaper memory types (or you can spring for paying $300-500 for that 256GB card).
3. 256GB is limited considering Nintendo is pushing Switch as a console not 3DS replacement (according to Nintendo). Hell, they are not even officially supporting 256GB. That's enough for 1st and 2nd party output as well as 3

As far as options, well, the obvious one is to skip buying Switch considering the limitations.
Click to expand...
1. There's multiple name brand 200GB cards (PNY, Lexar, Sandisk, Patriot) for around $70. I also have a Sandisk 200GB in my Shield Portable for emulation and it's blazing on the tiny reads and writes it's mainly doing.

2. Life expentacy is comparable for a good card versus a hard drive in heavy use precisely due to failure rates. It's generally 5+ years for both but I personally have fully functional cards and drives older than that. Also any decent card today uses wear leveling just like a SSD.

Also if you're paying $300+ for a professional grade card then you're also getting crazy read/write speeds (300MB/s+) that absolutely destroys every HDD and is competitive with SSD. Even the ~90MB/s cards you see linked in this thread will generally outperform the 5400rpm HDDs that PS4 and XBO ship with though.

3. 256GB is only the current ceiling for massmarket microSD cards, 6 months out from Switch launch. At the rate the technology's moving we'll see 512GB cards within the system's first year or so (there's already one Pro 512GB card but it's insanely expensive) and also see 256GB moving under $70 to replace 200GB (which will probably be phased out or moved down further). We may also see other interim sizes in the meantime but over the life of the system don't be surprised if microSD hits it's theoretical 2TB max.
 
I predict that 256 cards should be easy to find cheap over the holiday rush

Keep an eye out or wait to so how the market looks on March 2017

256 should be enough for Switch games i predict
 
Anth0ny said:
Yup, no surprise for me. How would you rip the switch out of the dock and take it on the go if the game is being run off an external hard drive?

gonna have a lot of micro sds hanging around come switch launch...
Click to expand...

They could just not allow games to be played from external HDDs. At least you would be able to store a large amount of software that would only need to be copied over to internal/card storage.
 
patientx said:
So no big games ... Even games like xenoblade x takes huuge space how could we manage a few of these it they exist for the system ?
Click to expand...

The reason Xenoblade needed that much space was to install hi-res textures because the optical drive wasn't fast enough to stream them. With game cartridges, there is no such problem because they're blazing fast. There won't be any need to install any game or texture pack on this console.
 
OrbitalBeard said:
Honestly, if this is the dealbreaker, you weren't all that interested in the device to begin with.
Click to expand...

This is an incredibly bad argument. Having to buy multiple $100+ SDs/MicroSDs where I live to store my games is a massive dealbreaker, I can use that money to buy multiple games for platforms that don't do that bullshit.

AtomicShroom said:
There won't be any need to install any game or texture pack on this console.
Click to expand...

Except, you know, digital games.
 
I would worry about 3rd party support for something that can't store a good number of digital titles. How are larger AAA games going to work with their larger install size and even larger patches on a system that will have a small internal hard drive?
 
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