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LTTP: 3D Dot Game Heroes: Or possibly the best Zelda on the PS3

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
First, this is my first lttp-thread on neogaf, so if I am breaking any rules here, just close the thread faster than Nintendo should have sued From Software for this game.

Anyways, I recently played Demons Souls to completition, and loved it so much that I ordered Dark Souls the day I beat it. However, ordering from notorious british online retailer zavvi was probably a bad idea, as I have been craving me some awesome souls-hunting all week, so I decided to try my hand at another From Software-developed game that was already in my shelf: 3D Dot Game Heroes. Starting it today, here are my first thoughts on the game:

I was immidiately floored by the fantastic graphics that look both retro and good at the same time with some awesome touches like how stuff explodes into pixles. Its just a really cool looking game with a very unique style, which is of course awesome.

I also find the story to be good enough which is better than most games really. There isnt much of it, which is nice, but what there is seems to be a joke on the notion that everything in the video game world needs to be 3D to be considered good, and since this was released a few years ago only in the start of the 2D boom of the latest years, I feel this is a really appropriate thing to base a story around in a game like this where most of its audience will probably feel the same way about old games. Also, all of the references to other games like Demons Souls, Zelda, Simons Quest, Dragon Quest etc is also extremely cool for a lover of retro-games, and it makes it actually fun to talk to the npc's and not only work like in a lot of modern games.

Now, the gameplay is of course the greatest thing about the game so far, actually being much more akin to the original Zelda than even Link to the Past, with almost no puzzles, but mostly battle-rooms where you need to fight all the enemies to progress (more or less). I actually really like this, as it makes the game feel more different from the more puzzle-heavy newer Zelda-games (in both 2D and 3D) than it would if it would have adopted a more lttp-way of doing it, so I feel this was actually the right choice from the developers. The light rpg-mechanics like the sword-upgrade also feels nice, and I love how the game actually rewards you for exploration.

All this is of course only based on my about three hours with the game this evening. I breezed through the first two dungeons (even though the second boss was a bit tricky), and then spent a ton of time in the sands to find the third dungeon - which I will start tomorrow. Hopefully this game gets even better, for my impression so far is really good, and it follows in line with what I experienced with Demons Souls and therefore expected of 3D Dot Game Heroes: This is games that actually manages to take what is so great with old game-design and put it into modern video games without being only retro. Where Demons Souls felt like someone finally managed to put the precision-based action-gameplay of something like Mega Man or old-school Castlevania and set it in 3D, this game does something similar with that old Zelda-style game by removing the often bloated story and slower puzzle-parts and just focusing of what was the core of the original: Presicion action and rewarding exploration.

Now why was this game never released on a Nintendo-system where the audience must have been much bigger for it?
 

Gadirok

Member
Now why was this game never released on a Nintendo-system where the audience must have been much bigger for it?

Because its by From.

It probably would have done alot better and gotten more appreciation on a Nintendo console, as myself included has been too ignorant to bother putting in the disc yet. Been sitting on my shelf for awhile.


Anyways, it might be the Alundra of this generation.
 

MYE

Member
Okami HD is.

I bought 3D Dot but honestly...it was a bit empty feeling. Might give it another try.
 

hongcha

Member
This game was ruined by the glitches. After freezing for like the 10th time on me (each time requiring me to unplug my PS3 to reboot it), I never wanted to play it again. Sort of a shame, as it is a decent Zelda-clone.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Okami HD is.

I bought 3D Dot but honestly...it was a bit empty feeling. Might give it another try.

I played Okami on the Wii, and I feel this game does more or less everything wrong. It looks really good, and the brush-mechanics felt nice with the remote, but the battles were forces (and so boring!), and the story was so slow, the dungeons so uninteresting, and that navi-character Issun made even Fi a really awesome side-kick, as she would just go on and on and on.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Because its by From.

It probably would have done alot better and gotten more appreciation on a Nintendo console, as myself included has been too ignorant to bother putting in the disc yet. Been sitting on my shelf for awhile.


Anyways, it might be the Alundra of this generation.

Why should this matter though? Did From have so kinda exclusivity deal with Sony? I know Demons Souls was partly funded by them, so that made sense, but that cant be the case here (as Sony would probably be afraid of being sued), so why? Just terrible market guys in From like everywhere else?
 

MYE

Member
I played Okami on the Wii, and I feel this game does more or less everything wrong. It looks really good, and the brush-mechanics felt nice with the remote, but the battles were forces (and so boring!), and the story was so slow, the dungeons so uninteresting, and that navi-character Issun made even Fi a really awesome side-kick, as she would just go on and on and on.

Okami is Zelda lite. It has a lot of small issues and a huge one (pacing), but the style kinda makes up for it.

And that field song gaddamn

TP had some terrific tracks but this, this was a swift kick in its balls.
 

Gadirok

Member
Why should this matter though? Did From have so kinda exclusivity deal with Sony? I know Demons Souls was partly funded by them, so that made sense, but that cant be the case here (as Sony would probably be afraid of being sued), so why? Just terrible market guys in From like everywhere else?

Because its Nintendo's responsibility to show why From should go to their system and put their games on their system.

Not the other way around.

They have traditionally primarily made Playstation games. They probably just stuck with their guns.

I don't really think that the Wii could handle it...

While I'm sure it wouldn't output at such a resolution, I'm sure it could have been downscaled and gotten some smaller features removed to fit.
 

sn00zer

Member
Darskiders is the better Zelda game.

Preach it!
3d dot heroes never really clicked with me....it had a lot of old school trappings (load times er'where) I didnt dig...and the game was funny, but I wish they had gone farther with the humor because outside of the townspeople the game was very straight faced
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Loading screens between areas tho. WHY

This game was ruined by the glitches. After freezing for like the 10th time on me (each time requiring me to unplug my PS3 to reboot it), I never wanted to play it again. Sort of a shame, as it is a decent Zelda-clone.

I agree this sucks and seems really strange for a game like this, but I guess it was developed at a small budget and probably not at all optimized?


I don't really think that the Wii could handle it...

If the Wii could handle Super Mario Galaxy, it would definitely be able to handle a good enough port of this. Not that it matters for me, but Im sure it would for the wallet of From.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Because its Nintendo's responsibility to show why From should go to their system and put their games on their system.

Not the other way around.

They have traditionally primarily made Playstation games. They probably just stuck with their guns.

This is probably a good point, I would just think it would be in their own interest to reach the biggest marked possible for a game like this - which would probably be where the almost ten millions copies of Twilight Princess got sold right?
 

Croc

Banned
IMO the game goes steadily down hill from there on, until at the end in the final dungeon where it just turns into complete shit not worth playing.

The game has some good ideas but it just hinders everything by making it difficult for arbitrary reasons. Considering the game relies so much on your powered up sword, you'd think you'd be able to use it with a little more health missing than...well, nothing. And given the graphical capabilities of the PS3 you'd think they'd at least try to make some of the dungeons look different but nope, they're just slightly different colors.

It also hands down has the worst final dungeon in any game that I've ever played.
 
I agree. I really enjoyed traveling the world and finding hidden secrets. I loved the simple act of just going from room to room in dungeons, fighting monsters. Even though I was always a big fan of Zelda 1, 3DDGH actually made me realize just how great Zelda 1 actually still is. I played Zelda 1 right after and had a blast.

3D Dot Game Heroes is by no means perfect (a couple of the bosses are more annoying than fun IMO, for instance, oh, and that one dungeon where death means doing the entire level over again from scratch...), but outside of Tales games, it's definitely in my PS3 top 3.
 

Sanctuary

Member
This game must be a terrible Zelda game then, because Darksiders was not even close to a good Zelda game.

That's because Darksiders isn't a Zelda game at all. It just has some similarities with the dungeon designs/puzzles, but it's much more of an action game than Zelda. Darksiders 2 is pretty much an Action RPG too, and much better than the first aside from some very annoying camera issues.

Also, FROM did not develop this game, they published it.
 

Edgeward

Member
I loved this game. Exploring the world in an overhead style is my favorite way of playing Zelda-like games and this game had it. Lots of neat secrets and it was a good challenge even if you had a giant half of the screen sword.
 
I thought it was a pretty great game, and it is surprisingly difficult in parts (without a guide). I ran into the bug where the game would freeze when entering or exiting a dungeon. Happened 2 or 3 times and lost an hour or two of progress total. I hate that developers are unwilling to fix severe, unavoidable bugs for niche titles.
 

ThisOne

Member
I tried to get into this game multiple times but just never ended up getting very far. I need to give it another shot but I'm not sure when that will happen with the impending PS4 launch :(
 

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
OP, you've played the first 3 hours? You've enjoyed that?

Quit, you've had the best time you'll have with it.

Once the novelty of the graphical style runs out, you're left with a pretty mediocre Zelda-clone that's just not that good. I tried multiple times to get into this game, just never clicked... despite how much I wanted to love it.
 

RM8

Member
I kind of want to play it again. But then, ALBW is almost here. Wait, this would be so incredible on 3DS :O
 
Okami HD is great, apart from all the side-scrolling digging puzzles that are frequent around where I'm up to, and the battles got boring.

To what degree might Ico (or maybe Shadow of the Colossus) be Zelda-like games?
 

Rolf NB

Member
Might be, its still wrapped on the shelf!
To add a little substance, Darksiders has highly refined combat and traversal mechanics, and general controls are far superior to anything Nintendo ever did/could do (considering Wii mote limitations) in a 3D Zelda title. The dungeon design is excellent, too, and the pacing is great. There's not much "overworld". There's a good chunk of content outside of dungeons, but it's never just an open field. Outside areas have very distinctive thematic designs, puzzles and optional stuff, kind of like dungeon lite. Not much apparent filler empty space anywhere.
The loudest criticisms agains Darksiders were always superficial "lol grimdark" dismissals based on aesthetics. But the underlying game is great.

Darksiders 2 is a letdown though, beware.

3DDGH is obviously more of a throwback title, but I felt the combat was way too simplistic even for that. Crazy big sword upgrading didn't really help. It rather felt I'm supposed to grind upgrades before being able to tackle the dungeons. Weird difficulty spikes there. As a result I looooved the overworld exploration, but the dungeons were frustrating and not very interesting.
I never finished the game, and it's been a while, so at least two grains of salt should be applied.
 

Yonafunu

Member
That's because Darksiders isn't a Zelda game at all. It just has some similarities with the dungeon designs/puzzles, but it's much more of an action game than Zelda. Darksiders 2 is pretty much an Action RPG too, and much better than the first aside from some very annoying camera issues.

Also, FROM did not develop this game, they published it.

I agree, but I was replying to someone who said it was "a better Zelda game".
 

Into

Member
This is the only LTTP (no offense to anyone who has done one) that has inspired me to try this game.

Off i go!
 
OP, you've played the first 3 hours? You've enjoyed that?

Quit, you've had the best time you'll have with it.

Once the novelty of the graphical style runs out, you're left with a pretty mediocre Zelda-clone that's just not that good. I tried multiple times to get into this game, just never clicked... despite how much I wanted to love it.

Exactly.

Game is pretty cute, but once you explore the great overworld, all the dungeons are atrociously bad. Just a bunch of palette swaps and arbitrarily confusing layouts.

It tries so hard to pay homage to Zelda, but it forgets that Zelda is more than just a checklist of things. It has a cohesiveness and some serious thought put into the design.

This game has none of that. Dungeon progession gets incredibly boring around the 3rd or 4th one and the Flame temple is downright insulting in it's design. The fight mechanics aren't really well thought out either. Your sword gets quartered in size and strength if you get hit even once. Your magic spells require more and more energy. Good luck beating that last insane fight room after a 3 hour dungeon without max health and magic.

Exploration is the best part of the game. I almost wish the dungeons were cut out entirely. All of them so goddamn dark and dreary. The graphics shine the most when you are outdoors in the sweltering desert or beautiful river-side cliffs.
 
3D Dot Game Heroes was immensely disappointing. The dungeons are so terrible, and the game has some of the most annoying music I've ever heard.

And that water blinded me for a month after I played it.
 
D

Deleted member 125677

Unconfirmed Member
Because its by From.

Also, FROM did not develop this game, they published it.


Some small clarifications here:

As have already been mentioned From didn't make this game, and they only published it in Japan (where it bombed pretty hard :(). It was published by Atlus in NA and Southpeak in EU.

The independent japanese studio Silicion Studio made it (the ones who've made Bravely Default together with 5pb)
 

Gen X

Trust no one. Eat steaks.
Didn't the game have a game breaking bug that corrupted your save or something and only the NTSC version was patched?
 

onken

Member
I spent aaages with this game but never got the platinum because the JP version requires you to grind a single playthrough for the tiny pixels, urgh.

Loading screens between areas tho. WHY

The JP version received a patch to remove those.
 

leroidys

Member
I wanted to like this game so much, but it takes some of the worst elements from dragon quest and LoZ and tries to serve them up as a "retro homage". I sold it after trying to get into it 3 times.
 

forrest

formerly nacire
This game must be a terrible Zelda game then, because Darksiders was not even close to a good Zelda game.

hold-my-earrings-on3qpm.gif
 
Easily a top 10 game for me this gen. Loved the music, art style, combat, etc. I actually enjoyed this more than any other Zelda-genre game this gen, liked it more than TP, SS, Okami, can't really think of any others...

Making custom characters was awesome. I think I played the game as Charizard, Megatron, and original Link. Never got to finish it unfortunately.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Ironically, while the op is glowing, it somehow puts me off this title. I always wanted to play it, but to hear it has almost no puzzles means it loses the gameplay element that's the strongest and most interesting in Zelda :(. Though I'm also one of the people who prefer Skyward Sword over all other Zeldas...
 
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