Yes, first appearance by Greg Baldwin in place of Mako. He was a student of him or something. Hellboy voiced Sozin.
The Runaway's
basically the wrapup for Toph's parent arc.
It's fucking hilarious too.
Puppetmaster debuted as the Halloween episode. Darker stuff + a bit of world mythology.
Nightmare and Daydream's a filler for sure.
Just finished Puppet Master after supper. Still filler but not as bad as the Beach, Runaway, or the second and third episodes. Thought the "villain" was strange. Her motivations and character were completely understandable, but then she pulls the whole villainous laugh and
tries to kill Team Avatar which doesn't fit at all. Also, I don't really see why Katara finds Bloodbending so abhorent- you can already freeze people to death, drown them, or impale them with ice! Surely, controlling someone with their own blood isn't much worse, if it is worse at all? (And they didn't really make it as dark a concept as I was expecting- I figured she could pull the blood right out of someone, killing them instantaneously. Is there any reason for her not to be able to?)
Besides, the whole point of choices is that it's how abilities are used and not what they are that matters.
Anyway, decent episode. On to Nightmares and Daydreams.
You can force people to do things against their will, and cause them much pain before killing them. The ideas of torture and manipulation are abhorrent.
You can force people to do things against their will, and cause them much pain before killing them. The ideas of torture and manipulation are abhorrent.
Sure, but, once again, it's all in how you use it. You could do much less abhorrent things with the ability than what you mentioned and you could cause just as much pain as those applications through torture with the abilities she already possessed. I just don't see why it was such a sticking point.
(And they didn't really make it as dark a concept as I was expecting- I figured she could pull the blood right out of someone, killing them instantaneously. Is there any reason for her not to be able to?)
The play always cracks me up. It was so hilarious watching the reactions on how the actors portrayed them. :lol The Aang actor always cracks me up. :lol :lol Not to mention the Katara and Zuko scene...hahaha.
Y'know, as fighters, Mai is pretty useless. I mean, her skill isn't bad, but it's always blocked by someone. Ty Lee is a lot more dangerous in a fight. It's just become humorous to watch Mai always send out these arrows/sharp things and have them almost always get blocked or cut by something.
S3 Disc 1 is probably the least exciting for me. They're all episodes I've seen before, except The Beach. They're not bad, but they turn the series into something a bit more episodic than the previous seasons.
As far as The Beach goes, I don't hate it. It felt more like a parody of Avatar or one where the writers were allowed to kinda relax a bit. I actually did like the ending (wanton destruction + super happy nostalgia picture + nice music = hilarious), but yeah. All that backstory stuff for the fire nation people just felt thrown in there. I take it that if the guys behind the show had more time, they could have properly developed the side characters. I guess the worst is over now, at least.
Y'know, as fighters, Mai is pretty useless. I mean, her skill isn't bad, but it's always blocked by someone. Ty Lee is a lot more dangerous in a fight. It's just become humorous to watch Mai always send out these arrows/sharp things and have them almost always get blocked or cut by something.
It's the same problem as Sokka's swordplay. The nature of the show means that Mei is never going to be able to hit some dude in the throat with a dagger, so she's limited to pinning people to things by their sleeves while Tai-Lee takes out everyone singlehandedly.
Y'know, as fighters, Mai is pretty useless. I mean, her skill isn't bad, but it's always blocked by someone. Ty Lee is a lot more dangerous in a fight. It's just become humorous to watch Mai always send out these arrows/sharp things and have them almost always get blocked or cut by something.
Y'know, as fighters, Mai is pretty useless. I mean, her skill isn't bad, but it's always blocked by someone. Ty Lee is a lot more dangerous in a fight. It's just become humorous to watch Mai always send out these arrows/sharp things and have them almost always get blocked or cut by something.
There were a lot of those moments in The Beach, especially with Azula (going power-hungry over every little thing). It was almost like they were trying to parody the OC or something at the time. It all felt like a joke (done on purpose).
There were a lot of those moments in The Beach, especially with Azula (going power-hungry over every little thing). It was almost like they were trying to parody the OC or something at the time. It all felt like a joke (done on purpose).
Yeah, I really get the feeling the whole episode was meant to be seen as a parody of most teenage soaps while tying everything together on the "Team Fire" side of things. I'll tell you though, that I didn't truly understand or appreciate the episode fully until after that volleyball scene. Beyond that, everything just became more and more funny. :lol
Oh, I don't think anyone had an issue with the first two acts of the episode and the ending house trashing. I think the problem people had was the cramming of massive amounts of relevant character melodrama into the last 5 minutes in the form of exposition. Sometimes it works (Katara's abandonment issues with Hakoda/Aang in the Awakening), and sometimes it doesn't, like here.
And now, onto the final disc. Six episodes left (including Sozin's Comet).
Until now, I didn't pinpoint Azula's voice as Frankie's from Foster's. I don't really like her as a villain, but the line, "No. You didn't fear me enough!" was great.
Also, I completely did not get the
US = the Fire Nation
thing until the Zuko/Ozai confrontation. Totally flew over my head for 50 episodes.
Just finished Puppet Master after supper. Still filler but not as bad as the Beach, Runaway, or the second and third episodes. Thought the "villain" was strange. Her motivations and character were completely understandable, but then she pulls the whole villainous laugh and
tries to kill Team Avatar which doesn't fit at all. Also, I don't really see why Katara finds Bloodbending so abhorent- you can already freeze people to death, drown them, or impale them with ice! Surely, controlling someone with their own blood isn't much worse, if it is worse at all? (And they didn't really make it as dark a concept as I was expecting- I figured she could pull the blood right out of someone, killing them instantaneously. Is there any reason for her not to be able to?)
Besides, the whole point of choices is that it's how abilities are used and not what they are that matters.
Anyway, decent episode. On to Nightmares and Daydreams.
puppets in the old woman's house are implied to be people from which she's sucked all the blood/moisture. It's a way of including that obvious thread without having to say it explicitly on a kid's show.
And now, onto the final disc. Six episodes left (including Sozin's Comet).
Until now, I didn't pinpoint Azula's voice as Frankie's from Foster's. I don't really like her as a villain, but the line, "No. You didn't fear me enough!" was great.
Also, I completely did not get the
US = the Fire Nation
thing until the Zuko/Ozai confrontation. Totally flew over my head for 50 episodes.
Huh, what makes you say that in the spoiler? Maybe it was obvious but I forgot (I haven't watched those episodes in question in a while).
Also, if you and traveler haven't finished the show yet, the final 5 episodes (i.e. recap Ember Island Players and Sozin's Comet) were pretty doggone EXCELLENT.
Wait, what? I don't get it. I mean, both are hegemonic powers. Beyond that... I don't see how that would work. We have never been in a war like this or committed non-domestic acts of genocide.
Wait, what? I don't get it. I mean, both are hegemonic powers. Beyond that... I don't see how that would work. We have never been in a war like this or committed non-domestic acts of genocide.
Growing up we were taught that the Fire Nation was the greatest civilization in history. And somehow the war was somehow our way of sharing our greatness with the rest of the world. What an amazing lie that was. The people of the world are terrified by the Fire Nation. They don't see our greatness, they hate us. And we deserve it. We have created an era of fear in the world. If we don't want the world to destroy itself, we need to replace it with an era of peace and kindness.
The Fire Nation is modeled after Imperial Japan. Rapid industrialization led to strip-mining their own lands of resources, which in turn drove the need to conquer the other nations. I understand the comparisons to the US though.
Growing up we were taught that the Fire Nation was the greatest civilization in history. And somehow the war was somehow our way of sharing our greatness with the rest of the world. What an amazing lie that was. The people of the world are terrified by the Fire Nation. They don't see our greatness, they hate us. And we deserve it. We have created an era of fear in the world. If we don't want the world to destroy itself, we need to replace it with an era of peace and kindness.
This is indicative of all hegemonic powers, not just the US. In fact, of all the hegemonic dynasties in any region in the history of the world, the Fire Nation probably has the least in common with the United States. For one, we don't have colonies.
This is indicative of all hegemonic powers, not just the US. In fact, of all the hegemonic dynasties in any region in the history of the world, the Fire Nation probably has the least in common with the United States. For one, we don't have colonies.
Huh, what makes you say that in the spoiler? Maybe it was obvious but I forgot (I haven't watched those episodes in question in a while).
Also, if you and traveler haven't finished the show yet, the final 5 episodes (i.e. recap Ember Island Players and Sozin's Comet) were pretty doggone EXCELLENT.
Sorry I didn't get back to the thread- I finished the season the night I mentioned Ember Island Players last week. Meant to post my full thoughts.
Sozin's Comet was excellent. It (and Ember City Players, which, I might add, is easily one of my fav episodes of the entire series) single-handedly elevated season 3 above 1 for me, even if I still feel 2 is the best. Perfect way to end the show.
As for the show itself, I ended up liking it quite a bit. I still can't say I'd recommend it without the "it's for kids" caveat like I do a lot of my other favorite media that happens to be made with kids in mind (Pixar, Harry Potter, Narnia, etc.) but it's probably the best thing I would say that about. Definitely the best thing to ever come out of Nick and most shows on any channel today could learn a lesson or two from it- namely develop your full story completely, tell it, and end it. While I felt a few episodes were filler, the show feels remarkably tight compared to most multi-season affairs. The creators clearly had their whole narrative in mind in the beginning and worked to complete that. They even ended it at one of the highest moments of the show.
Few other random notes:
1) Bending is one of the most visually spectacular form of "powers" I think I've ever seen in anything. I was amazed at the consistent quality of all of the choreography, although I don't think anything ever surpassed Katara's duel with the water bending master at the end of season 1 for me.
2) I noted earlier on that the production values seemed awfully high for a TV series and I'm glad to say I felt that way until the end. Aang and Ozai's fight and the last Agni Kai (sp?) were particularly beautiful.
3) The story really was as much Zuko's as it was Aang's. Iroh is still my personal favorite but Zuko's arc was the most interesting, even if I disliked the pointless delay of
his "conversion" from its logical point at the end of season 2 to the middle of season 3.
Well, that was a fun ride. Watched the entire series from beginning to end in 2 - 3 days. :lol
BTW, I just picked up the season 1 set today and I'm planning on rewatching the series from the beginning at a much slower pace along with the bonus materials on the DVDs. How are the commentaries and features?
Sorry I didn't get back to the thread- I finished the season the night I mentioned Ember Island Players last week. Meant to post my full thoughts.
Sozin's Comet was excellent. It (and Ember City Players, which, I might add, is easily one of my fav episodes of the entire series) single-handedly elevated season 3 above 1 for me, even if I still feel 2 is the best. Perfect way to end the show.
As for the show itself, I ended up liking it quite a bit. I still can't say I'd recommend it without the "it's for kids" caveat like I do a lot of my other favorite media that happens to be made with kids in mind (Pixar, Harry Potter, Narnia, etc.) but it's probably the best thing I would say that about. Definitely the best thing to ever come out of Nick and most shows on any channel today could learn a lesson or two from it- namely develop your full story completely, tell it, and end it. While I felt a few episodes were filler, the show feels remarkably tight compared to most multi-season affairs. The creators clearly had their whole narrative in mind in the beginning and worked to complete that. They even ended it at one of the highest moments of the show.
Glad you enjoyed it. I completely agree with your comments, and the season ratings as well. I also agree with your caveat, but I feel that its actually a strength since the shows ability to appeal to both kids and older demographics and do so intelligently puts it in rare company (I can think of no higher compliment than to compare it with Pixars work)
traveler said:
Few other random notes:
1) Bending is one of the most visually spectacular form of "powers" I think I've ever seen in anything. I was amazed at the consistent quality of all of the choreography, although I don't think anything ever surpassed Katara's duel with the water bending master at the end of season 1 for me.
I think the idea to utilize real martial art styles in the animation was a brilliant move. It always brings something new and exciting in every fighting scene.
My favorites in Season 1:
Jet/Aang in Jet
Aang/Zuko in Bato
Katara/Pakku in Waterbending Master
Katara/Zuko in Siege of the North
Season 2:
Toph versus the Entire WWE, I mean Earth Rumble team, in Blind Bandit
Azula/Zuko/Aangs Good, Bad and, Ugly Mexican Standoff in the Chase
Azula/Aang in the Drill
Team/Dai Li in Lake Laogai
Gaang/Entire Earth Kingdom army in the Earth King
Season 3:
Sokka/Piandao in Sokkas Master
Katara/Hama in Puppetmaster
Zuko/Sokka/Suki vs. Azula/Ty Lee in Boiling Rock 2
And Uh most of the finale.
traveler said:
2) I noted earlier on that the production values seemed awfully high for a TV series and I'm glad to say I felt that way until the end. Aang and Ozai's fight and the last Agni Kai (sp?) were particularly beautiful.
I still cant believe how Nick allowed them to have free reign on the budget. Need an extra episode for the finale? (it was only supposed to be three episodes) OK! Need an orchestra? SURE! I dont think Ive ever seen that on any TV show. :lol
traveler said:
3) The story really was as much Zuko's as it was Aang's. Iroh is still my personal favorite but Zuko's arc was the most interesting, even if I disliked the pointless delay of
his "conversion" from its logical point at the end of season 2 to the middle of season 3.
One of the great things about the show is that its infinitely rewatchable. Therere a lot of brilliant shows, but rewatching them sometimes is a little tedious or takes a lot of effort. (I love you the Wire, but its true!) Avatar episodes are like 20 minute condensed packages of awesome. I think I really started to love the show after subsequent rewatches. There are just so many things you pick up on after the fact.
traveler said:
BTW, I just picked up the season 1 set today and I'm planning on rewatching the series from the beginning at a much slower pace along with the bonus materials on the DVDs. How are the commentaries and features?
I bought the DVDs after watching the show as well. The bonuses are decent. Season 1 has the unaired original pilot with commentary, Season 2 has some hilarious shorts, and a fantastic graphic comic/slideshow (dont know what to call it) detailing the Avatar mythology between season 2 and 3, and Season 3 has a woman of avatar short (not great).
The commentaries are great, especially when the creators (Mike and Bryan) and Aaron Ehasz (head writer, I just found out he wrote for FUTURAMA TOO! HOLY SHIT!) are on. Hilarious and informative, especially on the epic episodes.
Well I can't believe what I just saw, and I mean the entire show. The only other show I think can compete from that network is Pete & Pete, and that's due to a huge nostalgic factor. I have to admit, I thought you were all crazy, a bunch of 20somethings heaping praise onto an anime show made for American kids. But... man, was I wrong.
You don't see action scenes like that so often in television. You don't see slapstick done so well (and I was pleasantly surprised that some of it was pretty good). And you certainly don't see it told in a very tight and well-thought-out story, with a huge amount characters that are developed over that time. You can really tell where the influences of Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, and FLCL all came in, but it's still very much its own thing. There's nothing quite like Avatar on television, and definitely not like it for kids (though I hear the TMNT show from 2003 was good, I have my doubts it would live up to Avatar).
I said it before, but it doesn't talk down to kids, and that's what will make it timeless. The Adventures of Pete & Pete and Batman: The Animated Series also fit into this category (although Pete & Pete is permanently stuck in the 90s, it deals with issues that are common to all types of kids and teenagers). What's also surprising was the huge amount of strong female characters. Azula, Katara, Hama, Toph... even the girlier girls like Ty Lee and Suki are pretty damn good fighters. Especially with regards to Katara, it's nice to see a show develop a good role model for kids.
That final disc was really great. Ember Island Players and The Southern Raiders and Sozin's Comet. Southern Raiders did a good job at punching just how pissed Katara was with her use of bloodbending. It was also interesting to see each element getting a "special move" of sorts (energybending, lightning redirection, bloodbending, and metalbending). And I can't stress enough just how beautiful the final Agni Kai was. I'm sure any lesser show would have put some sort of synth rock there instead of the music they got instead. And the voice talent... It was great all around. Greg Baldwin actually did do a good job at capturing Mako's performance.
One thing I disliked about the finale: I don't think Katara and Aang should have kissed. I think the hug struck just the right note. But I guess there are lots of tweens out there that needed some closure and it wouldn't have been nice to give them ambiguity at the end.
So yeah. Kinda all over the place here. But it's nice to see Nickelodeon actually allow some effort after so long. I'll be looking forward to whatever the creators of this show do next.
EDIT: Oh, and I gotta mention that Sokka was pretty great. I really loved his love for god-awful jokes. Maybe it was because I was so tired, but "jerkbending" got me laughing. He just shows up, acts like an ass and leaves.
Glad to see you enjoyed it so much Ani. I wish I could watch it all over again for the first time, but I guess I can settle for the 12th time. I think that's why I'm so looking forward to the film. With Mike & Bryan so heavily involded with the production (they're focusing their efforts on it rather than another season, spin off movies, or a new show alltogether), I'm very interested to see these characters and that awesome world brought to life in live action. It'll be like watching Avatar again, for the first time.
Nicktoons Network gave the first episode of Avatar the other day and wow. I hadn't seen the first episode since the longest and it was just awesome how everything began. It tripped me out at the beginning intro because Katara explains the stuff in detail instead of the later on edited version they give after Aang is announced the Avatar and says he can save the world.
Nice to see you enjoyed the show too AniHawk! Welcome to the club!
What's also surprising was the huge amount of strong female characters. Azula, Katara, Hama, Toph... even the girlier girls like Ty Lee and Suki are pretty damn good fighters. Especially with regards to Katara, it's nice to see a show develop a good role model for kids.
Nick really dropped the marketing ball on this one. They licensed barely any products for girls. My daughter loves the show, and Katara is her favorite. She even practices waterbending in the shower. There's nothing really that I can buy her from the show.
Nick really dropped the marketing ball on this one. They licensed barely any products for girls. My daughter loves the show, and Katara is her favorite. She even practices waterbending in the shower. There's nothing really that I can buy her from the show.
There were zero females in Mattel's action figure line. The only Katara figure/doll would be that ugly stuffed doll they sell online and at the Nick amusement park at the Mall of America.
I watch reruns of the show whenever I see it on, but the fart joke commercial bumps make me sick. Nick had, and still has, no idea on how to market this show, period.
Yeah, I went back and read Amirox's season 3 thread and, Jesus Christ, I don't think I've ever seen a show I liked this much handled this poorly. I mean, there was even a period in there where you guys didn't even seem certain it would continue and wtf was up with releasing that one DVD with episodes NOT YET EVEN AIRED?!?! :lol
Glad I got to see it like I did without having to put up with such a god awful job.
There were zero females in Mattel's action figure line. The only Katara figure/doll would be that ugly stuffed doll they sell online and at the Nick amusement park at the Mall of America.
I watch reruns of the show whenever I see it on, but the fart joke commercial bumps make me sick. Nick had, and still has, no idea on how to market this show, period.
Oh yeah. I think that fart joke one was on some first season DVD. So dumb.
But that's what they think cartoons are, or what children want from them. Hell, that's what they think shows are in general. It took considerable restraint not to go into nerd rage mode when some execs visited my class on a walkthrough during the summer.
Well I can't believe what I just saw, and I mean the entire show. The only other show I think can compete from that network is Pete & Pete, and that's due to a huge nostalgic factor. I have to admit, I thought you were all crazy, a bunch of 20somethings heaping praise onto an anime show made for American kids. But... man, was I wrong.
You don't see action scenes like that so often in television. You don't see slapstick done so well (and I was pleasantly surprised that some of it was pretty good). And you certainly don't see it told in a very tight and well-thought-out story, with a huge amount characters that are developed over that time. You can really tell where the influences of Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, and FLCL all came in, but it's still very much its own thing. There's nothing quite like Avatar on television, and definitely not like it for kids (though I hear the TMNT show from 2003 was good, I have my doubts it would live up to Avatar).
The slapstick is great because it doesn't demean the characters. In any other show, Sokka would have been reduced into a bumbling idiot that screws up all the time. But in Avatar, he's the voice of reason, the ideas guy, and the undisputed pimp that's proven to be a vital cog in the group. His banter with Toph completely kills me. A Complete Badass Normal, in TV trope terms.
I said it before, but it doesn't talk down to kids, and that's what will make it timeless. The Adventures of Pete & Pete and Batman: The Animated Series also fit into this category (although Pete & Pete is permanently stuck in the 90s, it deals with issues that are common to all types of kids and teenagers). What's also surprising was the huge amount of strong female characters. Azula, Katara, Hama, Toph... even the girlier girls like Ty Lee and Suki are pretty damn good fighters. Especially with regards to Katara, it's nice to see a show develop a good role model for kids.
Agreed. And it's not like the female characters fit into any conventional stereotype either. Each has their individual strengths, weaknesses, and personalities. They kick just as much ass, if not more, than the male characters.
The other brilliant thing is that you really get the sense that in most of the Avatar universe (except in the Water Tribes), sexism is practically non-existent. No one finds it shocking that the Kyoshi warriors are all female, or that Azula should succeed Ozai instead of Zuko because she's just better. I find that completely refreshing.
That final disc was really great. Ember Island Players and The Southern Raiders and Sozin's Comet. Southern Raiders did a good job at punching just how pissed Katara was with her use of bloodbending. It was also interesting to see each element getting a "special move" of sorts (energybending, lightning redirection, bloodbending, and metalbending). And I can't stress enough just how beautiful the final Agni Kai was. I'm sure any lesser show would have put some sort of synth rock there instead of the music they got instead. And the voice talent... It was great all around. Greg Baldwin actually did do a good job at capturing Mako's performance.
I'm pretty sure that Agni Kai scene won the Annie award by itself. The use of colour, the music, the animation, just stunning stuff.
One thing I disliked about the finale: I don't think Katara and Aang should have kissed. I think the hug struck just the right note. But I guess there are lots of tweens out there that needed some closure and it wouldn't have been nice to give them ambiguity at the end.
The romantic portion was, as the writers say, integral to the DNA of the show, and needed the resolution (I really really appreciated the lack of dialogue and the Katara initation). I thought overall, that relationship was probably one of the best handled, carefully built up romances in any show, from a whole deep fate soulmate/pure distilled epic love perspective.
The funny thing was in the commentary
the Korean animators were worried that the kiss was too deep bordering on inappropriate for kids, and the creators were like no! Make it deeper!
I wish I could watch it all over again for the first time, but I guess I can settle for the 12th time. I think that's why I'm so looking forward to the film. With Mike & Bryan so heavily involded with the production (they're focusing their efforts on it rather than another season, spin off movies, or a new show alltogether), I'm very interested to see these characters and that awesome world brought to life in live action. It'll be like watching Avatar again, for the first time.
