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LTTP: Bayonetta

MadOdorMachine said:
I know for a fact I bought the whip and the claws. Perhaps I bought them before they were unlocked for free? It's too late for me to know now, but I can tell you I did buy the whip and it's not an alternate version.

In either case, after watching some walkthroughs on YouTube, I think I'm playing the game right for the most part. The only difference is that I'm not buying the green lolipops, etc. which is why I'm dying so much.

I'll finish the game and perhaps give it another playthrough again. Maybe then I'll gel with it better.
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The healing items in Bayonetta and DMC are basically like purchasable cheats. Using any of them lowers your ranking automatically by drastic amounts. They are not really meant to be used - and besides, normal mode is piss easy anyway.
 
maverick40 said:
Unfortunately for me this game tries too hard to be different and it just came off as pretentious to me.
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I love the word "pretentious." It really highlights people who have opinions for no reason.

I don't think there's a less "pretentious" game than Bayonetta.
 
Roto13 said:
I love the word "pretentious." It really highlights people who have opinions for no reason.

I don't think there's a less "pretentious" game than Bayonetta.
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It was pretentious, the action was great but I needed a storyline to go along with the action. Not some b grade movie/pretentious storyline that was trying way to hard to be different.
 
I don't think it's pretentious, but it is self-indulgent to the point of damaging it's quality.

Vanquish was much better, because it didn't feel the need to force a bunch of filler crap into it, diluting it's quality.
 
I definitely beat and enjoyed Vanquish but for some reason I remember so little about it. Plotwise, I only remember there being a rather large gentleman who takes a bit of a left turn at the end. In that sense I suppose I would say that I don't see the appeal of the plot.

Bayonetta's plot is the opposite of pretentious. Did you watch the ending?
 
Every time one of these threads pop up I get incredibly sad all over again that I can't play this game again. It's been like a year since my 360 died. This is still probably my favorite game of this console generation, i've played it through like 9 times and I still get the itch to go back and play it from time to time. I never even unlocked the last weapon. This is one of the only games i've enjoyed enough to get all the achievements for...I would go play it right now if I had a working 360. One of these days i'm going to have to get one just to play this and Vanquish again.
 
Fugu said:
I definitely beat and enjoyed Vanquish but for some reason I remember so little about it. Plotwise, I only remember there being a rather large gentleman who takes a bit of a left turn at the end. In that sense I suppose I would say that I don't see the appeal of the plot.

Bayonetta's plot is the opposite of pretentious. Did you watch the ending?
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I enjoyed Vanquish alot more. Although both are amazing action games, i felt vanquish wasn't trying as hard as bayonetta was.
 
This truly shames me to say but I just never grabbed the game because of aesthetics. I really don't like the look of the main character and I know that is petty but it really deters me.

StuBurns said:
I don't think it's pretentious, but it is self-indulgent to the point of damaging it's quality.

Vanquish was much better, because it didn't feel the need to force a bunch of filler crap into it, diluting it's quality.
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Yeah it is truly a great thing about Vanquish. Part of its perfect length is what has led me to fire it up and beat it over 4 times even though I have this immense backlog.
 
Pretentious:

1. full of pretense or pretension.
2. characterized by assumption of dignity or importance.
3. making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.

Not sure how that fits Bayonetta; the game didn't take itself seriously at all...
 
BruceLeeRoy said:
This truly shames me to say but I just never grabbed the game because of aesthetics. I really don't like the look of the main character and I know that is petty but it really deters me.
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It's kind of dadaism, very garish. I don't like the art, but I liked her design, and her character quite a lot. She could have been terrible, but she's remarkably charming. She could have just been the teen fantasy naughty teacher stereotype too, but she an empowered woman, who does display her sexuality unabashed. I was really impressed with how they handled her.
 
maverick40 said:
It was pretentious, the action was great but I needed a storyline to go along with the action. Not some b grade movie/pretentious storyline that was trying way to hard to be different.
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seriously?

bayonetta's storyline... pretentious?

This wasn't peter molydeux level a single tear rolling down the infinite chasm of a sky-god who represents a mothers love here. This was a badass witch taking down the heavens.
 
StuBurns said:
It's kind of dadaism, very garish. I don't like the art, but I liked her design, and her character quite a lot. She could have been terrible, but she's remarkably charming. She could have just been the teen fantasy naughty teacher stereotype to, but she an empowered woman, who does display her sexuality unabashed. I was really impressed with how they handled her.
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That is actually pretty impressive that they could pull off not making her the very stereotype she looks to embrace. It truly does look like some teenager japanese sex fantasy gone awry when you first look at it though.

Jintor said:
It's one of the more impressive treatments of sexuality in games I've encountered.
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I am truly intrigued. I just assumed it was sublime combat wrapped around a 14 year olds wetdream. I really should just pick it up.
 
Jintor said:
seriously?

bayonetta's storyline... pretentious?

This wasn't peter molydeux level a single tear rolling down the infinite chasm of a sky-god who represents a mothers love here. This was a badass witch taking down the heavens.
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People like to say this but there were a *lot* of cutscenes in Bayonetta, definitely more than I expected at least.
 
Come now. You see that shit once on your first time playthrough. After that you skip that shit ad infinitum. In probably over 150 hours of gameplay I've probably only sat and watched all the cinematics through once, maybe rewatching a few of the cooler action scenes.
 
Red Blaster said:
People like to say this but there were a *lot* of cutscenes in Bayonetta, definitely more than I expected at least.
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There were more than I expected as well, but for the most part I loved them.

The more serious plot ones... well, I skip those on my repeat playthroughs.
 
I think Bayonetta was really in need of the 'addition by subtraction' design. I think you could cut the bike and missile shit out completely. All the post-mission shooting galleries are crap, so many of the cutscenes are too long. Lots of little things too, like the shop being in a distinct location which requires loading, instead of just at the end of levels in a menu or something. There's just so many roadblocks to the fun in that game.

You could greatly improve Bayonetta, with almost no additional budget.
 
OldJadedGamer said:
Took back the rental before it was due. Have no idea what the stink is for the second game.



One thing that instantly unsells me from a game is excessive cutscenes.
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Different strokes, different folks and all that.

The game didn't click with you and that's fine, it happens to everyone at some point.

StuBurns said:
I think Bayonetta was really in need of the 'addition by subtraction' design. I think you could cut the bike and missile shit out completely. All the post-mission shooting galleries are crap, so many of the cutscenes are too long. Lots of little things too, like the shop being in a distinct location which requires loading, instead of just at the end of levels in a menu or something. There's just so many roadblocks to the fun in that game.

You could greatly improve Bayonetta, with almost no additional budget.
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Good thing they are making a second one then. I fully expect it to be better than Bayonetta in all departments.
 
great game, in the holy trinity of character action games. (along with Ninja Gaiden Black and DMC3)

I liked the combat in DMC3/4 better though. the over-reliance on the wicked weaves really killed my enjoyment in higher difficulties.
 
StuBurns said:
I think Bayonetta was really in need of the 'addition by subtraction' design. I think you could cut the bike and missile shit out completely. All the post-mission shooting galleries are crap, so many of the cutscenes are too long. Lots of little things too, like the shop being in a distinct location which requires loading, instead of just at the end of levels in a menu or something. There's just so many roadblocks to the fun in that game.

You could greatly improve Bayonetta, with almost no additional budget.
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Subtracting anything from Bayonetta would be a cardinal sin. You don't revise someone's love letter.
 
pizzaroll said:
A lot of love letters would be better with some editing though...
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Then they wouldn't be love letters. The point isn't perfection, it is emotion. Kamiya-san believes in every second of that game. I believe in it, too.

Honestly, too many people don't recognize that and then complain when you get these clinical/by the numbers games with no love in them at all.

EDIT:
StuBurns said:
I'd be happy to seen a cardinal sin committed if that resulted in a more enjoyable game.
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I can say with 99.99% certainty that it would have the exact opposite effect. That isn't to say there isn't a whole laundry list of things we didn't learn from/can do better...
 
PlatinumGamesJP said:
Then they wouldn't be love letters. The point isn't perfection, it is emotion. Kamiya-san believes in every second of that game. I believe in it, too.

Honestly, too many people don't recognize that and then complain when you get these clinical/by the numbers games with no love in them at all.
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I skip Revolution 9 on the White Album too.
PlatinumGamesJP said:
I can say with 99.99% certainty that it would have the exact opposite effect. That isn't to say there isn't a whole laundry list of things we didn't learn from/can do better...
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I know you are wrong. I hate those things, and there is nothing redeeming about them to me. You could argue that having shit in there makes the great stuff all the greater, and that might be true, although I doubt it, it certainly isn't preferable.

Another thing Bayo did horribly was QTEs, the absolute worst.

I still think it's a fantastic game, I just think it's much further from greatness than Vanquish.
 
i'm so glad i was able to look past the questionable art style.

such a wonderful game engine... really wish they'd re-use it into some new games!
 
PlatinumGamesJP said:
Then they wouldn't be love letters. The point isn't perfection, it is emotion. Kamiya-san believes in every second of that game. I believe in it, too.

Honestly, too many people don't recognize that and then complain when you get these clinical/by the numbers games with no love in them at all.
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I like Bayonetta very much and I'm very glad that Kamiya was allowed to express his vision, but I don't want to read a love letter that involves an extremely long Space Harrier tribute cock-blocking the player's access to the best boss fight in the game. If I liked Space Harrier, now, in 2012, I'd play Space Harrier.
 
hey_it's_that_dog said:
I like Bayonetta very much and I'm very glad that Kamiya was allowed to express his vision, but I don't want to read a love letter that involves an extremely long Space Harrier tribute cock-blocking the player's access to the best boss fight in the game. If I liked Space Harrier, now, in 2012, I'd play Space Harrier.
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Heres the thing though... Kamiya-san would do the same thing. I know, because I helped him buy the sit-down Space Harrier cabinet in his house.

We didn't want you to play Space Harrier. We wanted you to play an homage to Space Harrier. Take that section out, and you also take out that awesome moment when you hear Hiro's Space Harrier music kick in and you get the great Bayo one-liner. Honestly, a net minus in my personal estimation.

I totally get that there is a hardcore segment of the action game audience that wants a totally stripped down action game, but I truly feel that is borne of a sort of myopic love for the mechanics of the genre and disregards some of what actually makes playing video games fun.

Anyways, I get the criticisms, but I'm perfectly happy with what we created.
 
PlatinumGamesJP said:
I truly feel that is borne of a sort of myopic love for the mechanics of the genre and disregards some of what actually makes playing video games fun.
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I don't think so. It's just seeking a cohesive experience. There are sections in Bayo without notable combat, that I feel would be hugely missed, such as the golden magical paths that lead you upside down etc. But things like the shooting gallery don't feel like part of the game, they feel like mini-games your forced to take part in extensively.

My other complaint, about the cutscenes, is just because it feels cheap. Maybe there was an artistic drive for those animated film stripes, maybe it's not just because it's cheaper, but it feels like it's that.
 
ooh, the ranking game!

Pretty sure I put it like this:

NGII > NGB > Bayonetta > DMC > DMC4 > DMC3

As for the questionable segments in Bayo... If they were shorter, they would undoubtedly add to the game. I did mark out at the start of those segments, I'd be a filthy liar to say that I didn't, but the Space Harrier section could have been shorter. Or, at least, paced more like Space Harrier.
 
NG2 above Blk is unusual, would you elaborate a little? I like that it reduced the platforming and convoluted level progression, but I think the combat design was a notable step in the wrong direction.
 
They're very close, and I have yet to play enough of the original's difficulty modes (beaten Normal and Hard in NGB, Warrior and Mentor in NG2), but NG2 seemed to be faster overall, has more enemies thrown at you (with at least as much enemy variety), and I think the limb system adds to the combat. I could totally see an argument that NGB's better boss fights outweigh that, though.

I do need to play more NGB, it's been a while.
 
Great game. I also give Sega props for not turning the unlockable character and secret battles into DLC. The extended dancing in the ending was seriously one of the most embarrassing things I've seen this generation, tho.
 
PlatinumGamesJP said:
Heres the thing though... Kamiya-san would do the same thing. I know, because I helped him buy the sit-down Space Harrier cabinet in his house.

We didn't want you to play Space Harrier. We wanted you to play an homage to Space Harrier. Take that section out, and you also take out that awesome moment when you hear Hiro's Space Harrier music kick in and you get the great Bayo one-liner. Honestly, a net minus in my personal estimation.

I totally get that there is a hardcore segment of the action game audience that wants a totally stripped down action game, but I truly feel that is borne of a sort of myopic love for the mechanics of the genre and disregards some of what actually makes playing video games fun.

Anyways, I get the criticisms, but I'm perfectly happy with what we created.
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I have to say, im intrigued what Nintendo homages are included in the new game if any..as someone who doesn't like Nintendo franchises much, its going to be interesting.

Nekobo said:
Great game. I also give Sega props for not turning the unlockable character and secret battles into DLC. The extended dancing in the ending was seriously one of the most embarrassing things I've seen this generation, tho.
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I found that hilarious. There is only one thing in bayonetta that I have such a problem with that it nearly turned me off the game and that was joy's intro where she is touching her sparkling vagina... it came across as so damn crass where the rest of the game was just lighthearted fun.
 
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