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[Kindekuma]

I've definitely seen hate on /a/, and people on reddit (both r/anime and r/danganronpa) have been shitting on certain details that may or may not retroactively screw up other things in the series.

It's become pretty damn divisive in the last few weeks, though future side doesn't get as much hate.

Let's be real, /a/ will shit on anything you like. Good or not. I'm really enjoying DR3, seeing how the events before and after DR1&2 is great. Future arc has me hooked because the past few episodes have been a rollercoaster. Hope Raiden and Punching Jesus are my favorite characters to come out of the series.

Danganronpa has become my new addiction of sorts, I've played through both mainline games and working on UDG at the moment. So more DR stuff the better.

 

[Red Frost]

Sounds like you have a problem suspending your disbelief. Yes, the story is absurd and ridiculous in a lot of ways, but it's not a series you are supposed to take 'seriously' in terms of how the world works. There isn't much realism for a reason. If you can't enjoy absurd works of fiction, it's not gonna be for you.

I took it seriously and loved the hell out of it ;p

 

[Kowashitai]

DR3 also gets plenty of shit on reddit, and you need to keep in mind its really only been the very recent despair episodes that have gotten most of the hate.

It's because that is exactly what happens when you show just how Danganronpa works. It's something that is better left inferred and you just go along with because of how ridiculous it is. I'm still enjoying DR3 but I'm more interested in the overarching twists between the two shows than I am the prequel to DR1/2 stuff.

Let's be real, /a/ will shit on anything you like. Good or not. I'm really enjoying DR3, seeing how the events before and after DR1&2 is great. Future arc has me hooked because the past few episodes have been a rollercoaster. Hope Raiden and Punching Jesus are my favorite characters to come out of the series. .

Yu Narukami is so good.

 

[Javier]

Case 5 in DR2 is probably the most well-crafted murder mystery I've EVER read. That moment when you realize the truth... holy shit. No video game I ever play will be able to replicate THAT.

 

[Red Frost]

It's because that is exactly what happens when you show just how Danganronpa works. It's something that is better left inferred and you just go along with because of how ridiculous it is. I'm still enjoying DR3 but I'm more interested in the overarching twists between the two shows than I am the prequel to DR1/2 stuff.

There are a TON of ways to show just how Danganronpa works and make it, you know, work. The problem is Kodaka has opted for a cop-out.

 

[Kindekuma]

Case 5 in DR2 is probably the most well-crafted murder mystery I've EVER read. That moment when you realize the truth... holy shit. No video game I ever play will be able to replicate THAT.

By far my most favorite case in the series. You realize how goddamn insane Nagito really is and what he can do. The whole chapter is just phenomenal.

 

[Jintor]

I love love love Danganronpa's style. Music is still in rotation, I love the slightly warped artstyle, the fucking Climax Reasoning is amazing.

Minigames are shit and I hate them, though you get some sick music out of them.

The overplot is horrendous, but I like the individual bits of it well enough. Nagito's case in SDR2 would have been the single best murder mystery case of any game I've played if Chiaki didn't laborously guide you through the whole thing.

I don't understand what anyone sees in Junko as a villain though. She's literally just magic. Chatting with her twin in DR1's free time mode though is great, Mukuro is fantastic. I'm tempted to read the novels but I gave it a shot like four times and it's just utter trash.

I'll get around to watching DR3 eventually.

 

[BassForever]

I realized I said case 4 was the only good case in dangan 2, I meant case 5 the nagito case that was the diamond in the rough that made me glad to play danganronpa 2. Case 4 was probably the pinnacle of stupid I was walking to class texting soulflarz about it when it clicked how the murder happened "ELEVATORS FUCK DANGANRONPA LOL" was I believe the exact text I sent him.

 

[Gestahl]

Case 5 in DR2 is probably the most well-crafted murder mystery I've EVER read. That moment when you realize the truth... holy shit. No video game I ever play will be able to replicate THAT.

Yeah le wacky crazy face man doing the wacky crazy thing and killing himself was....really.....*yawnnnnn*....surprising

VLR and DR2 have a lot in common in that they both made me stop giving a shit about each series respectively

 

[NeonZ]

There are a TON of ways to show just how Danganronpa works and make it, you know, work. The problem is Kodaka has opted for a cop-out.

It only really could have worked if the Despair side had been entirely focused on the fall of class 77, without all the set up for Future side stuff eating screen time.

 

[plutoknight]

I'm pretty happy with Danganronpa 2.....I mean, okay, I was going to make a LTTP about this as I just finished it. But hey, here we go.

I LOVED the twist. Yes, the game does the whole "omg lolz look at us what if we're in a game" but it works because Danganronpa has always had this level of meta-humor to it. I literally thought nothing of it!

The game had some great twists and turns through the first two chapters (except for hte gameplay, I'll touch on that in a bit), but the third chapter is when the weirdest thing happened to me.

In Chapter 3, I was investigating the Movie Theater, and there were these lights...they were all pixelated. I thought the game was bugging out (I do own an OG Vita 1000!), so I saved, rebooted my Vita and went back.....the glitch was still there. Super weird. Whatever. I kept going.

....I got to the final chapter then. The pseudo-game world. The glitching out walls. Maybe that room in chapter 3 was a bug. Maybe it was intentional. I have no idea now. WHAT IS GOING ON!

The entire last two cases were fantastic. Like, Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations-tier good. The twists and the turns were magnificent, and even though I thought I had Chapter 5 figured out (the game almost even outright leads you to one conclusion and then..BAM!), the execution of the twist was so, so well done. Then there's that meta-game stuff.

While I'm not sure how I feel about sci-fi infiltrating my Danganronpa, I guess it isn't too bizarre (Alter Ego in Danganronpa 1, anyone?) But the very idea of the Neo World Program and the way of using rewriting memories to get rid of despair....it's either genius or insane. I find it genius. But I also liked Metal Gear Solid 2, so, idk.

Also, um, the soundtrack to DR2 is fantastic, and while the minigames are mostly crap still ("Improved" hangman's gambit my ass), the gameplay flow from novel to investigation is smooth and fluid as ever. And Danganronpa has this....really awesome style to it that melds everything together.

I enjoyed the hell out of it.

 

[Jintor]

the computer twist in sr2 was no surprise because the fucking game starts by booting up and logging in/initialising and it barely disguises itself as a metajoke or whatever

the real shocker was the Remnants of Despair thing turning these characters you'd learned to kinda give a shit about into these monsters. I really liked that

 

[Red Frost]

It only really could have worked if the Despair side had been entirely focused on the fall of class 77, without all the set up for Future side stuff eating screen time.

Not disagreeing there. The fall of class 77 already had the groundwork in place (everyone's less than ideal backstories that make them perfect for despairifying). But it needed the proper amount of time to really get to their total fall, and pushing them into the background ain't doing it.

 

[Torokil]

I love Danganronpa but yeah, the series has some problems. My main problem with 1 is the pacing, it starts to draaaaag around chapter 4.

I still think that Makoto should have actually been murdered by

Spoiler

Junko

, and the POV in chapters 5 and 6 should've been through Kyoko, who's the central character of the game anyway. Would've made for a good twist and give the game a shot in the leg it needed to cross the finish line.

DR2 has a much better cast and trials overall, but the atmosphere and ost took a hit.

Still a solid 8/10 series though - can't wait for V3.

 

[Red Frost]

I don't understand what anyone sees in Junko as a villain though. She's literally just magic.

I mean sure, in the same way every talented character in the series is literally just magic. But for her, that's actually relatively new.

When Junko was introduced, she was imo an absolutely fascinating twist on what modern science knows about sociopathy. Someone that has all the behavior of someone who lacks empathy, yet has so much of it that they get addicted to the pain and suffering of others that they cause it themselves.

Knowing more about her analytical talent changes that a bit, but it's still interesting.

A TVtropes bullet point in a Fridge section said it best:

Junko is NOT a sociopath, her "despair fetish" is basically sado-masochism taken to a psychotic extreme. Her talent reinforces that by making her perfectly aware of how much suffering her evil actions will cause...and because she is capable of empathy, she feels (deep down inside) guilt, self-loathing, and grief over that suffering. She knows the consequences, she feels the cost. Even though such emotions in normal people stop them from doing further evil and seek redemption, Junko can't stop doing evil because she is addicted to her own emotional pain as well as everyone else's. Thus, her capacity for empathy makes her more evil, not less. That is fucked up Royal.

 

[Jintor]

that'd be great if they surface that anywhere in the games. i played both games and udg (for god knows what reason) and they don't do shit with Junko except she's eeeeevilllllllllll

 

[Red Frost]

that'd be great if they surface that anywhere in the games. i played both games and udg (for god knows what reason) and they don't do shit with Junko except she's eeeeevilllllllllll

Read Danganronpa Zero. It's pretty deliberate there. Kodaka knew exactly what kind of villain he was making.

 

[Kowashitai]

that'd be great if they surface that anywhere in the games. i played both games and udg (for god knows what reason) and they don't do shit with Junko except she's eeeeevilllllllllll

Unfortunately DR likes its side material so Junko gets fleshed out in DR Zero from what I've heard. I also wish more of her issues would have been in the game to give her a stronger motive but by the time the twist happens in DR1, there isn't a lot of time for that.

 

[Red Frost]

DR Zero is side material in the same way DR3 is. They're important canon entries that aren't in the series' main medium.

Killer Killer or Danganronpa: Kirigiri is what I'd consider side material.

 

[hans_castorp]

Danganronpa 2 was better than the first but still vastly inferior to PW or ZE.
Playing the new PW right now and the differences in quality are jarring

Kodaka is a great writter but he can't write good twist nor good villains.
The "it was Junko all along" is getting old

 

[Jintor]

is dr zero the one included with DR1? I tried reading the included light novel and the writing was god-awful

 

[BassForever]

Oh god the fucking Izuru "twist" how did I forget that. The moment that name was dropped and the remnants of despair were introduced I texted soulflarz and said "so Hajime is Izuru and the dr2 cast is the rod? Thats the obvious dumb cliche twist this series would do" and I was right on the money which again made the final trial a test of "how long till I can get to the point where the characters in game realize this". Even in context of then being remnants of despair what the fuck is this vr game supposed to do to someone who put Juunko's fucking eyeball into his face? Wouldn't fucking surgery have been a better alternative to fixing the danganronpa 2 cast before shoving them into a virtual video game?

Also was Chiaki real or an ai construct? I'm under the impression she's a real person but in dr2 she has lines that seem to imply she's limited to what she can say or do to help the rest of the cast. Regardless why not just fucking explain the truth right away instead of letting monokuma manipulate things? Same with how this program had apparently zero fail safe in the event someone would try to hijack it.

Other fun things I forgot to mention

Does the creator have a fetish for dark skin big boobed athletic girls? How did both of then survive? At least the girl in dr2 had something to do in the game unlike swimmer girl who's only use was baby making in the bad ending.

Why even have the giant animal robot factory to "because if we didn't no one would believe it" if the world of dr2 is a video game?

The voice acting is strong in both games, props to the cast.

Both games did have slight moments of redemption when they killed off the worst characters (the stupid ultimate prefect boy and gundham).

I'm split on I prefer dr1's all up front motivation for the contestants approach or dr2's new motivation before each trial. I think planting the seed in 1 is more effective in showing the growing despair amongst the survivors but dr2's did a good job of amping it up at the right moments before things got really bad.

I liked the segment in dr2 where you played an old school style murder mystery game, I was kind of hoping maybe the rest of the game would play out like that and dump the actual dr2 gameplay.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

is dr zero the one included with DR1? I tried reading the included light novel and the writing was god-awful

that's DR2 with IF which is literally Mukuro fan fiction

 

[Kowashitai]

Danganronpa 2 was better than the first but still vastly inferior to PW or ZE.
Playing the new PW right now and the differences in quality are jarring

Kodaka is a great writter but he can't write good twist nor good villains.
The "it was Junko all along" is getting old

I'm also playing Spirit of Justice but it just can't grab me. I finished Case 4 and honestly PW is just so stale now. The characters in the Phoenix cases are annoying and court scenes are unengaging and predictable. The newest mechanic they introduce is essentially just cross examination and doesn't add much.

I'd say that PW has greater production values, the models and animations of new characters are great, but in terms of wow factor, it has completely lost me. DR may not always strike gold with its cases, but I've not been in a situation where I wish I was done with a case almost as soon as I started it.

Both games did have slight moments of redemption when they killed off the worst characters (the stupid ultimate prefect boy and gundham).

Ahahaha I'm sorry my friend but the real worst DR1 character died after him in that case, Hifumi. Must have got them mixed up in your mind.

 

[dhlt25]

I agree. DR2 took all the annoying shit in 1 and turn it up to 11. Terrible mini-games, absolutely nonsensical overall plots and endless annoying ramblings. I actually like the case/mystery solving structure and would have liked the games a lot more if they make it a phoenix wright/battle royale mash up. As is I have no interested in the third game.

 

[BassForever]

I'm also playing Spirit of Justice but it just can't grab me. I finished Case 4 and honestly PW is just so stale now. The characters in the Phoenix cases are annoying and court scenes are unengaging and predictable. The newest mechanic they introduce is essentially just cross examination and doesn't add much.

I'd say that PW has greater production values, the models and animations of new characters are great, but in terms of wow factor, it has completely lost me. DR may not always strike gold with its cases, but I've not been in a situation where I wish I was done with a case almost as soon as I started it.



Ahahaha I'm sorry my friend but the real worst DR1 character died after him in that case, Hifumi. Must have got them mixed up in your mind.

Like most of the danganronpa cast, they're pretty interchangabely boring to terrible with a handful of stand outs (Byakuya, Nagito, Chiaki, Kirigiri)

 

[plutoknight]

Like most of the danganronpa cast, they're pretty interchangabely boring to terrible with a handful of stand outs (Byakuya, Nagito, Chiaki, Kirigiri)

Yeah I was going to say, most of the Danganronpa cast is there to be killed off one way or another.

 

[Hierophant]

i've actually heard good things about the anime, i'm excited to watch it...

i just don't want to play ultra despair girls

 

[Griss]

The story is shockingly bad, which usually isn't a problem for a video game but unfortunately this one is basically a VN. Whoops.

Shame, because each case is reasonably put together. But the overarching narrative? Utter nonsense. Dull nonsense.

 

[Kowashitai]

i've actually heard good things about the anime, i'm excited to watch it...

i just don't want to play ultra despair girls

At least read a summary of the plot then because it ties into DR3.

 

[BassForever]

Yeah I was going to say, most of the Danganronpa cast is there to be killed off one way or another.

Which normally I wouldn't have a problem with (I do enjoy slasher films) but the series shoves down this "WE HAVE TO TRUST OUR FRIENDS" and tries to force feed these non existent relationships because even if I wanted to free time with all the characters I barely have time to see everyone once before the game ends :| the players options are go to the menu and replay old chapters to learn about characters who already died, or read up their bio on the wiki, neither really helps the first time through.

 

[Basileus777]

Jury still out on whether or not Zero Time Dilemma or DR3 retroactively fucks the series more

DR3 is getting close

It's not much of a debate tbh, ZTD takes the cake easily. Danganronpa's setting was already falling apart at the seams before DR3, that the future arc is decent at all is the biggest surprise from DR3. Danganronpa 3 isn't even the worst thing from the franchise.

 

[Hierophant]

At least read a summary of the plot then because it ties into DR3.

i'm forcing myself to go through it, if only for completions sake

 

[Red Frost]

Which normally I wouldn't have a problem with (I do enjoy slasher films) but the series shoves down this "WE HAVE TO TRUST OUR FRIENDS" and tries to force feed these non existent relationships because even if I wanted to free time with all the characters I barely have time to see everyone once before the game ends :| the players options are go to the menu and replay old chapters to learn about characters who already died, or read up their bio on the wiki, neither really helps the first time through.

You're meant to get all the free time events in Island Mode and sort of see them as posthumous characters that you learn more about. There are characters that you flat out can't get their final FTE on one playthrough (IIRC, Chihiro's is only available in Island Mode).

That's why they're there, to give sympathetic qualities to every single character no matter how quickly they die in the plot (with the exception of Hifumi, who is never sympathetic even with his FTEs). Hell you talk about hating Ishimaru, but the guy is super popular among the fanbase precisely because of his FTEs. And you'd also never learn Nagito has frontotemporal dementia and lymphoma without them.

 

[Permanently A]

I think someone's enjoyment of the DR series depends on how good they are at predicting twists. Like, everyone agrees case 2-5 is masterful because the logic behind the twist is so warped that it just cannot be predicted. I'm horrible at predicting twists so the entire finale of DR2 blew me away. But a poster above who saw the Izuru twist coming would have an exasperating experience rather than a fun and shocking one.

 

[Red Frost]

is dr zero the one included with DR1? I tried reading the included light novel and the writing was god-awful

That's Danganronpa: IF, which is Mukuro fanfiction written by the Baccano writer.

 

[BassForever]

You're meant to get all the free time events in Island Mode and sort of see them as posthumous characters that you learn more about. There are characters that you flat out can't get their final FTE on one playthrough (IIRC, Chihiro's is only available in Island Mode).

That's why they're there, to give sympathetic qualities to every single character no matter how quickly they die in the plot (with the exception of Hifumi, who is never sympathetic even with his FTEs). Hell you talk about hating Ishimaru, but the guy is super popular among the fanbase precisely because of his FTEs. And you'd also never learn Nagito has frontotemporal dementia and lymphoma without them.

I shouldn't need to play a bonus mode to actually learn why I should or shouldn't care about the characters who are there to get violently murdered. At least in dr2 you can argue the story left room for its whole cast to get out of their comas.

 

[Red Frost]

Even in context of then being remnants of despair what the fuck is this vr game supposed to do to someone who put Juunko's fucking eyeball into his face? Wouldn't fucking surgery have been a better alternative to fixing the danganronpa 2 cast before shoving them into a virtual video game?

Remember, Makoto disobeyed the Future Foundation to put them in there. There was no surgeon on their side. The entire world wants the remnants dead. Only other option is to actually un-despairify them.

Also was Chiaki real or an ai construct? I'm under the impression she's a real person but in dr2 she has lines that seem to imply she's limited to what she can say or do to help the rest of the cast. Regardless why not just fucking explain the truth right away instead of letting monokuma manipulate things? Same with how this program had apparently zero fail safe in the event someone would try to hijack it.

In the NWP, she was an AI. She can't explain the truth because that goes against her programming, while subtly pushing them toward the truth doesn't.

And it did have a failsafe in the form of the emergency shutdown. It was just a convoluted failsafe that didn't take into account the possibility of violence entering the program.

 

[Neoleo2143]

You're meant to get all the free time events in Island Mode and sort of see them as posthumous characters that you learn more about. There are characters that you flat out can't get their final FTE on one playthrough (IIRC, Chihiro's is only available in Island Mode).

That's why they're there, to give sympathetic qualities to every single character no matter how quickly they die in the plot (with the exception of Hifumi, who is never sympathetic even with his FTEs). Hell you talk about hating Ishimaru, but the guy is super popular among the fanbase precisely because of his FTEs. And you'd also never learn Nagito has frontotemporal dementia and lymphoma without them.

See, this is exactly the organization problem I pointed out earlier. Diverging parts of the narrative can have really big consequences for how it is seen as a whole by the different parts of the audience. Many game narratives actually die on their organization. You can have great prose that can take an otherwise mediocre character and elevate them fantastically, but it means little to a great deal of audience members if the placement of said event in the story is not an aspect of a singular narrative flow.

 

[BassForever]

Remember, Makoto disobeyed the Future Foundation to put them in there. There was no surgeon on their side. The entire world wants the remnants dead. Only other option is to actually un-despairify them.



In the NWP, she was an AI. She can't explain the truth because that goes against her programming, while subtly pushing them toward the truth doesn't.

And it did have a failsafe in the form of the emergency shutdown. It was just a convoluted failsafe that didn't take into account the possibility of violence entering the program.

Okay so she is an ai in dr2 but there is a real chiaki out there it was based upon.

And you know you're putting 15 incredibly dangerous fugitives into this machine to try and rehabilitate them and you already knew the chances of it working were low why on Earth do you not have more/better fall back plans especially when you know both DESPAIR and the rest of the FF are hunting for them?

 

[Red Frost]

I shouldn't need to play a bonus mode to actually learn why I should or shouldn't care about the characters who are there to get violently murdered. At least in dr2 you can argue the story left room for its whole cast to get out of their comas.

That's a fair complaint, though I'd argue most do give you a reason to care about them, albeit posthumously or the moments before they face execution. Hell, most of the victims (both murder and execution) get relatively well-fleshed out in their cases. Ishimaru is really the only exception IMO.

 

[The Silver]

Okay so she is an ai in dr2 but there is a real chiaki out there it was based upon.

And you know you're putting 15 incredibly dangerous fugitives into this machine to try and rehabilitate them and you already knew the chances of it working were low why on Earth do you not have more/better fall back plans especially when you know both DESPAIR and the rest of the FF are hunting for them?

well it would be pretty hard to implement a counter to an A.I that's equal/stronger than one made by the ultimate programmer, such a thing shouldn't have been possible but lolJunko.

 

[Red Frost]

And you know you're putting 15 incredibly dangerous fugitives into this machine to try and rehabilitate them and you already knew the chances of it working were low why on Earth do you not have more/better fall back plans especially when you know both DESPAIR and the rest of the FF are hunting for them?

Because Makoto is a naive idiot that wants to save everyone without considering the consequences. The fallout from that decision is how DR3: Future Side starts and depending on how it ends, may have cost the guy dearly.

 

[Jintor]

Okay so she is an ai in dr2 but there is a real chiaki out there it was based upon.

i think the implication is she's actually based on chihiro, the genius programmer

 

[jello44]

i think the implication is she's actually based on chihiro, the genius programmer

That's what I thought.

Then SURPRISE, she's there in the anime.

 

[Jintor]

wut

i really gotta watch the anime at some point......

 

[Basileus777]

i think the implication is she's actually based on chihiro, the genius programmer

Well she's a genius at saying Hinata.

 

[Puruzi]

Sorry but Danganronpa is great.

 

[RurouniZel]

While I'm not as harshly against Danganronpa as the OP (I do enjoy the games quite a bit) I definitely agree on his points about the plot being nonsense. I mean, most stories like this and ZE have a lot of nonsense to go around; it's part of what makes it fun and engaging. However while Danganronpa doesn't have too much trouble explaining what happens in its story, it failed in both DR1 and 2 (and the new anime as well) when trying to explain the logistics; the "how" of what happened.

As I wrote in this post here (I'm linking only to show that I've always felt this way and am not band-wagon jumping) Danganronpa handwaves a lot of stuff because there isn't really an answer that works. It's a story that functions so long as you don't think too much about the logistics.

 

[R_thanatos]

The simple problem with OP is the you can't like danganronpa if you don't like the characters. It's not just a simple murder mystery game.

You're in a game that put simple expectations and change them.
Like every character in DR1 & DR2 ends up in different place than at the start of the game.

And yes , some cases are painfully easy to guess , but so are many in the PW series ..

Danganronpa is fun regardless ... There are many problem with the game ( some mini games ) and it's not some perfect game , but goddamn is there is fun in it , if you just look for it. it's certainly one of the best of his genre at making you care for their characters and that's were my fun is