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LttP Dark Souls II: Scholar of the First Sin: Why is the opening so bad?

Solaire of Astora

Death by black JPN
In addition to the feeling of movement and combat (played vanilla on ps3 and sotfs on ps4), the thing that really kills my enjoyment of dark souls 2 is some of the early-mid game levels. I'm sure everyone has at least one level per souls game that makes them go "not this place again", and I'm no different, but at least in demon's and dark souls, it was for other reasons.
5-2 in demon's, because of the general difficulty/creepy atmosphere and new Londo in ds1 because of the creepy atmosphere and need to rely on the curse.
In dark souls 2, so many of the early areas are just a slog for me because I just don't enjoy them. Out of the areas mentioned in the OP, I don't really care much for Heide's, no man's wharf or the lost Bastille. And for me, it doesn't stop there. I just don't really enjoy that many areas up until (late game spoiler. Don't read the spoiler tag if you don't want to know)
Drangleic Castle
. Sure, the game has quite a few good areas, but in a series with generally excellent level design, this was probably dark souls 2's biggest failure for me.

I can replay the other games as much as I want, but the "not this shitty place" feeling always kills my desire to make it through another play through of ds2.
 

Kinsei

Banned
I think I'm going to quit this DLC and head to Crown of the Ivory King. I'm pretty sure I made it impossible to beat unless I use a soul vessel and completely change my build cause I can't out damage Fume Knights healing and I used all of my smelter wedges so I can't kill the fragments of Nadalia. You'd think killing the Smelter Demon (Hooray for a reskin with barely any changes) would get you more smelter wedges.
 

Van Bur3n

Member
I think I'm going to quit this DLC and head to Crown of the Ivory King. I'm pretty sure I made it impossible to beat unless I use a soul vessel and completely change my build.

What exactly is stopping you? A particular boss? There is definitely one boss in the DLC that I'd say you can definitely ignore because its just full of shit, but the other two are some of, if not the best, bosses of DS2.

EDIT: If I recall correctly, there should be enough wedges throughout the DLC to wipe out all fragments, only that one of them is obtainable only after Fume Knight. Perhaps backtrack a bit if you're missing some, but if you ended up making the mistake of using your wedges too early, you should only have to deal with one of the fragments of Nadalia healing Fume Knight. You could try keeping Fume Knight on the opposite side of the arena away from the fragment as much as possible to prevent the healing. It will be annoying, but its possible.
 

Kinsei

Banned
What exactly is stopping you? A particular boss? There is definitely one boss in the DLC that I'd say you can definitely ignore because its just full of shit, but the other two are some of, if not the best, bosses of DS2.

Fume Knight. I can't out damage his healing and I used up all 6 smelter wedges.

EDIT: Oh, it didn't seem like the healing had a radius. I guess I'll go looking for the other wedges and try to keep the boss on the right side of the arena.
 

Van Bur3n

Member
Fume Knight. I can't out damage his healing and I used up all 6 smelter wedges.

If you're referring to the initial six you get at the start of the DLC, you may be in luck. There are four more smelter wedges hidden within the tower. They're pretty well hidden, and well guarded at that. I don't recall the specifics but they're in the area full of lifts, I think. The exact path you have to take I do not remember.
 

Kinsei

Banned
If you're referring to the initial six you get at the start of the DLC, you may be in luck. There are four more smelter wedges hidden within the tower. They're pretty well hidden, and well guarded at that. I don't recall the specifics but they're in the area full of lifts, I think.

Oh good, they're not past those bullshit gates in the Iron Passage. Fuck that area. I don't care if those two items are the best weapons in the game, I'm never going through that bullshit again.
 

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
This and the other thread convinced me to retry DS2, though I'm playing Scholar this time. As all of the memory of my previous gripes comes flooding back, there's one I don't see people mentioning. Is it just me or does the lock on make you aim DOWN? I feel like I'm constantly trying to detach some hollow toes, causing me to miss some hits because of the angle.
 
I think I'm going to quit this DLC and head to Crown of the Ivory King. I'm pretty sure I made it impossible to beat unless I use a soul vessel and completely change my build cause I can't out damage Fume Knights healing and I used all of my smelter wedges so I can't kill the fragments of Nadalia. You'd think killing the Smelter Demon (Hooray for a reskin with barely any changes) would get you more smelter wedges.

I'm enjoying reading your thoughts on this game. Let me tell you something: Fromsoftware keeps track of what was the victories/defeats radio for bosses and Fume Knight is the boss with the lowest percentage of success in the entire series. I don't remember the exact number but the percentage of success was less than 30% iirc.
 

Kinsei

Banned
The Sir Alonne fight is a piece of shit. It's bad enough that you're on some sort of invisible tiem limit, but the hitbox on his dark stab (his most dangerous attack) is Gen 1 Plesioth levels of bad.

I'm not finishing the DLC tonight.

I'm enjoying reading your thoughts on this game. Let me tell you something: Fromsoftware keeps track of what was the victories/defeats radio for bosses and Fume Knight is the boss with the lowest percentage of success in the entire series. I don't remember the exact number but the percentage of success was less than 30% iirc.

Really? I beat him first try after destroying the healers.
 
The Sir Alonne fight is a piece of shit. It's bad enough that you're on some sort of invisible tiem limit, but the hitbox on his dark stab (his most dangerous attack) is Gen 1 Plesioth levels of bad.

I'm not finishing the DLC tonight.



Really? I beat him first try after destroying the healers.

Yes, your percentage of success was superior to that 30%?
 

Kinsei

Banned
Yes, your percentage of success was superior to that 30%?

Yeah, by 3%. He didn't seem that bad, but then again I have to remember that most people use shields and he's probably a lot harder if you try to block his attacks. His attacks look like they would take off a ton of stamina.
 

Teletraan1

Banned
LOL I am terrible at figuring what to do in these games. I never knew you could light up the lost sinner fight until this thread. I always beat him with the lights out.
 
Yeah, by 3%. He didn't seem that bad, but then again I have to remember that most people use shields and he's probably a lot harder if you try to block his attacks. His attacks look like they would take off a ton of stamina.

Greatshields are pretty effective against him actually, but I agree it's much better to dodge his attacks.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Greatshields are very effective against Sir Alonne, not so much Fume Knight.

Oh good, they're not past those bullshit gates in the Iron Passage. Fuck that area. I don't care if those two items are the best weapons in the game, I'm never going through that bullshit again.
Hehehehe

Iron Passage worst part of the game confirmed.

I just beat it yesterday. The game is far from trash, even if all the bosses were pushovers.
All? Even Darklurker, Ruin Sentinels, the Gargoyles, Smelter Demon, and of course the DLC bosses? C'mon.

LOL I am terrible at figuring what to do in these games. I never knew you could light up the lost sinner fight until this thread. I always beat him with the lights out.
her* :)
 

RevenWolf

Member
Greatshields are very effective against Sir Alonne, not so much Fume Knight.


Hehehehe

Iron Passage worst part of the game confirmed.


All? Even Darklurker, Ruin Sentinels, the Gargoyles, Smelter Demon, and of course the DLC bosses? C'mon.


her* :)

I feel like there's only one boss that destroys all shields regardless,
king vendrick
. At least in my experience, unless something was wrong with my build lol.

And yeah iron passage I never do lol.
 

Kinsei

Banned
GET FUCKED ALONNE HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I decided I wasn't going to let the game beat me and was determined to beat him tonight. After only four tries I managed to finally take him out. The key to my success was to stop worrying about the timer and just treat it like a normal boss. It's actually an amazing fight once you get past the bullshit hitbox on his dark stab attack. He doesn't even need it to be difficult cause all of his other attacks alone are more than enough to make him the hardest boss in DS2. I think I even died more to him than I did to Manus my first time through Artorias of the Abyss. Now I'm dreading whatever is waiting for me at the end of the final DLC.

I'll write up my full thoughts on the DLC tomorrow. For now I'm going to go listen to some music to relax and then head to bed.
 

Luminaire

Member
But you played through Iron Peak...
Makes no sense

Sorcerer :I

Greatshields are very effective against Sir Alonne, not so much Fume Knight.


Hehehehe

Iron Passage worst part of the game confirmed.


All? Even Darklurker, Ruin Sentinels, the Gargoyles, Smelter Demon, and of course the DLC bosses? C'mon.


her* :)
See above, I just started tackling the dlc though so I may come back screaming.

Also I don't remember dark lurker, I assume I missed it.
 

DemWalls

Member
You'd think killing the Smelter Demon (Hooray for a reskin with barely any changes) would get you more smelter wedges.

That was my favorite boss in the DLC :lol:
The other two were rather disappointing, especially because I'd read such great things about them.
 

Kinsei

Banned
Whereas Crown of the Iron King was focused on exploration and puzzle solving, Crown of the Iron King takes the opposite approach and is almost entirely focused on combat. I feel that this lets them play off of each other really well.

The start of this expansion managed to lull me into a false sense of security. Finding the fragments of Nadalia didn't seem like it would be too hard (and it's not as long as you're not dumb like me) and the enemies seemed to be easier than the ones in Shulva and the Dragon Sanctuary (You'd think beings created from iron would have higher poise). As soon as I reached the first room where you had to deal with both enemies and a fragment of Nadalia the game told me that this expansion would be far from easy. A single room with no ranged enemies (aside from the one throwing fire bombs that might as well not have existed) managed to kill me multiple times! That hasn't happened since I was getting my footing back in the Forest of Fallen Giants! I actually had to come up with a strategy to get through this room in one piece instead of just running in and blundering my way to victory like I usually do. It was great! Unique combat encounters like that pretty much defined this area for me. Whether it was an NPC invader that runs away from you in order to lead you into a trap, being targeted by a pack of Predators (They call them Prowlers but we all know what they're meant to be), or sorcerers that create and AoE field of damage where their spells hit, I was always kept on my toes.

As you saw from my previous posts, I managed to completely miss the path to the second set of smelter wedges (and also Sir Alonne) but that wasn't a failing of the level design, it's because I'm a fucking idiot. For some reason I assumed that only the two elevators at the bottom of the tower were turned on and I'd activate the others later. Asa result of this dumb thought I didn't even bother to check the others before heading down to Fume Knight. I really enjoyed hitting the statues on this path to use them against the enemies and manipulating the gunpowder barrel guys to blow up destructible walls.

Fume Knight was a pretty cool boss. The way he swings that huge chunk of iron around (Can that thing even be called a sword?) caught me off guard and took me quite a while to figure out how to dodge. It's a good thing he has a really long recovery time after his swings so I was given ample time to heal. I was kinda disappointed in the second phase of the fight. I was expecting a huge change, but outside of two attacks all that really happened was him getting slightly stronger and slightly faster. His attack where he summoned that dark fire orbs that spin out from a circle was really great so I wish the second phase had more attacks like that. It would have drastically changed the way you had to approach the boss. As it stands now Fume Knight is just a standard boss. There's nothing bad about the fight but it just kinda blends in with nothing to make it standout. If he was a boss in the base game like Velstadt it would be a fine fight but when you consider that he's the main boss of the expansion I can't help but be a bit disappointed.

The first optional area of the expansion is the Iron Passage and FUCK THIS PLACE. The path to the boss is a straightforward cave where nothing really stands out like the Cave of the Dead from Sunken King, but as soon as you go off the beaten path and try to find treasure everything goes to hell. Fuck the gates that you can only open once per life for some stupid fucking reason. Fuck the enemies that block your way as you're running to the open gates. Fuck that clerics than can cast slow on you. Fuck the salamander statues. FUCK THE GODDAMN INVISIBLE WALLS THAT STOP YOU FROM GOING UNDER A GATE WHEN THERE'S CLEARLY ENOUGH ROOM FOR YOU TO FIT THROUGH. There's no question in my mind that this is the worst area in the game. It's even worse than Lost Izalith from the first Dark Souls.

At the end of a shit area there's a shit boss waiting for you. It's the Smelter Demon from the base game but this time it's fire is blue. Yay. I think the length of it's sword when bathed in fire is longer but other than that the fight is the exact same. At least the blue flames looked cool.

Did the Sir Alonne fight really need to be set in a memory? For all I know the time limit could have been an hour or longer, but the game doesn't communicate that to you. I actually ran out of time in one of the giant memories so for quite a while I was stressed that I would be kicked out of the fight right before dealing the finishing blow. This made me make incredibly stupid moves in order to try and kill the boss quickly which led to me dying over and over again. The room that his armor was in should have been an elevator that takes you to the fight.

The fight itself is actually really damn good once you get past the time limit BS, expect for one thing. The hitbox on his dark energy grab is complete bullshit.

Here's a little diagram. The horizontal line is the boss' sword and the vertical lines are where the hit box extends to.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
---------------
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

That's inexcusable.

It's a real shame too cause the rest of the fight is amazing. The boss is fast (I swear he's practically teleporting), aggressive, has a nice variety of attacks, and has some amazing mind games (The delayed dash attack in particular got me so many damn times). This boss would be one of my favorites in the series if it wasn't for that broken hitbox. Sadly it does exist so the fight is merely great instead of being amazing like it should have been.

I didn't mention the bits of the memory leading up to Sir Alonne because they're so basic that they don't deserve to be mentioned.

Overall this expansion was a mixed bag. When it was good it was among the best content that the game has to offer, but when it was bad it was among the worst content the game has to offer. Needless to say I greatly preferred the Sunken King expansion. Despite all of my issues with it I'd say that this was still worth the $10 price when ti was first released.
 

saturnine

Member
I'm pretty sure the timer stops when you enter the boss room in the memory.

Yeah, Iron Passage sucks a varied amount of asses. It's supposed to be a co-op area, with the players getting separated and entering the enemy rooms simultaneously through different routes, but it completely falls apart as a single player experience.
 
I dropped Dark Souls 2 as soon as I noticed it stopped respanwing enemies I killed too many times. I wish there was a way to disable that.

Enemies eventually not respawning was the only way I was able to get through certain areas.

Specifically Heides Tower of Flame (which I mistakenly started at) and the Wharf.
 

Kinsei

Banned
I've conquered the final DLC! All that remains is to get whatever spells I missed for the trophies and then I'm off to the final boss!
 

Kinsei

Banned
I guess i won't be getting the platinum trophy since there's a miracle you can only get by maxing out devotion to the sunlight covenant.

I went ahead and finished the game. I'll post my full thoughts on the Ivory Crown expansion, the final bosses, and the game as a whole after I get some much needed sleep.
 

Strings

Member
I guess i won't be getting the platinum trophy since there's a miracle you can only get by maxing out devotion to the sunlight covenant.

I went ahead and finished the game. I'll post my full thoughts on the Ivory Crown expansion, the final bosses, and the game as a whole after I get some much needed sleep.

Yeah, the platinum is ~2.5 playthroughs. It's pretty balls, and probably why I dislike the game as much as I do.
 
I guess i won't be getting the platinum trophy since there's a miracle you can only get by maxing out devotion to the sunlight covenant.

I went ahead and finished the game. I'll post my full thoughts on the Ivory Crown expansion, the final bosses, and the game as a whole after I get some much needed sleep.

Didnt sunlight is via coop? Spam that Ivory King coop spot.

You can also rush and finish the game till +3 and buy the covenant spells with the ghost guy on the castle
 

blackflag

Member
My only issue with DS2 is that almost all the bosses can be beaten the same way and aren't very difficult. I still think it was good, just the worst of the series.
 

Kinsei

Banned
The major gimmick of the final expansion is that you're meant to go through the same area twice, but they didn't take this concept as far as they should have. While the lack of ice during your second trip through Eleum Loyce does make certain encounters harder, it doesn't really change a ton. It would have been a lot cooler if all of the snow melted and we get to travel through the city as it once was. This could have also let the developers change the enemies. I think changing the enemies from slow and bulky to fast and frail after once the ice on them melted would have been a neat twist. These two things could have gone a long way to making your second trip through the area feel radically different, but the way it is handled in the game makes it feel like padding. It also didn't help that most of the enemies are so similar to other enemies in the main game and the past expansions that it just felt like I was going through the motions. The golem and needlemouse enemies were nice but underused.

The biggest highlight of this expansion for me was the first boss, Aava. While I wish that it was faster, had a few more moves, and could more easily chain it's attacks together, there's no denying that it's a fun fight and one of the best that the game has to offer. There's no denying that Dark Souls II has an over reliance on large humanoid bosses and of the ones that aren't large humanoids, only Najka was really good. It makes fights like this and Sinh a nice breath of fresh air.

I'm not the only one that tried to fight Aava while it was invisible multiple times, am I? I knew that there must have been an item on the other path that would let me see the boss but I wanted to see if I could win without it.

If you toned down the damage Aava does then it would make a good tutorial boss in Monster Hunter like Lagombi or Volvidon.

The fight against the Burnt Ivory King really didn't deserve the build up to it. The poor guy has an incredibly predictable moveset and was already over half dead by the time he finished off the Loyce knight.

The side area of this expansion was surprisingly decent your first time through. The problem is once you figure out the route to the boss hen it's just a boring run with nothing happening. Since the boss is just two Aavas I wouldn't blame anyone for just using a couple bonfire ascetics and fighting the first tiger another two times.

Nashandra and Aldia were a joke in comparison to the stuff I went through in the expansions but that's to be expected. Had I known the game wasn't going to just plop me into NG+ I would have fought them sooner and hopefully gotten a better challenge out of it. Oh well, what's done is done.

I chose to walk away from the throne as that's really the only one that makes sense. I am immune to hollowing now that they've become a true monarch. No matter what happens to the flame I can continue to search for a proper cure to the undead curse no matter what becomes of the world. Had I stayed then nothing would ever change. Wither they link the flame and the cycle starts anew or some other undead will come along and dethrone me like I did to Vendrick and start the cycle over. I obviously don't end up making a difference (Dark Souls 3 exists after all) but at least I tried.

I loved my time with this game and I'm really glad I gave it a second chance. While there are problems (an over reliance on bonfires, too many humanoid bosses, a world that feels static, and so on) I can safely say that this is in the top 1% of all the games that I've ever played. While I certainly prefer the first game, I feel that this was an amazing sequel. I want to jump into N+ straight away but I just have too many games to play thanks to the holidays.

I did receive Dark Souls 3 as a Christmas gift so would anyone be interested in a similar LttP when I get around to playing it?
 

renzolama

Member
I did receive Dark Souls 3 as a Christmas gift so would anyone be interested in a similar LttP when I get around to playing it?

If you want to get three dozen immediate responses about how bad Dark Souls 3 is and how it ruined the franchise etc then go for it. It's still too soon for the internet to admit that it's a great game, we're only just now admitting that Dark Souls 2 is pretty okay.
 

MrOogieBoogie

BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
I'm playing the game for the first time myself. I'm 20 hours in and have most recently made it to the Black Gulch. I've completed every level/boss prior to this I believe.

I'm loving the game. I've played all the other Soulsborne games, and most recently Bloodborne, and Dark Souls II does many interesting things. For one, it's got some delightfully sadistic levels like Earthen Peak and The Iron Tower that are full of intense enemy encounters and unfair traps that remind me more of Demon's Souls than most any of the levels in the other Souls titles (Demon's Souls was my first Souls game). I had no qualms about the beginning of the game; I loved the rustic atmosphere of everything.

I will say that the bosses are interesting in this game: I've beaten all of them in one or two tries so far with under-powered weapons (bandit axe +1 and dragon tooth being my mains for now), but in a way it's a nice break from the Ludwigs and Nameless Kings of the world. But like I said, Dark Souls II carries its weight in its regular enemy mobs, which are a whole different breed aggressive compared to some of the tepid non-boss encounters in Bloodborne.

At the end of the day, it's more Souls, and it's fucking fun as shit and I find myself thinking about playing it all day at work.
 

Strings

Member
I did receive Dark Souls 3 as a Christmas gift so would anyone be interested in a similar LttP when I get around to playing it?

I'd enjoy it for sure. Especially since 2 is still super fresh for you, so you can identify differences more clearly.

Quick question though - have you played Bloodborne? DS3 does take a lot of cues from it.

If you want to get three dozen immediate responses about how bad Dark Souls 3 is and how it ruined the franchise etc then go for it. It's still too soon for the internet to admit that it's a great game, we're only just now admitting that Dark Souls 2 is pretty okay.

Is there really anyone out there saying this?
 

Kinsei

Banned
I will do a LttP on DS3. I'm going to be playing through Shantae Half Genie Hero and Doom first though so it will probably be a week or two before I start unless Doom is super short.

I'd enjoy it for sure. Especially since 2 is still super fresh for you, so you can identify differences more clearly.

Quick question though - have you played Bloodborne? DS3 does take a lot of cues from it.



Is there really anyone out there saying this?

Bloodborne is my favorite game on PS4. I love it and the Old Hunters expansion.
 

Murkas

Member
OP I'd recommend you go through ng+ right now, I personally think DS2 is the worst of the series but it does ng+ the best out of all of them. Things change (and reading through your posts, one of the things you wished for actually does happen in ng+). You could always change your weapon if you feel bored.

Also you get a neat little event if you beat Sir Alonne without getting hit! Nice challenge for you.
 

IC5

Member
Glad to see someone else appreciates Black Gulch.

You should uh, go back some time, and take a real good look around... ; )
 

Van Bur3n

Member
The biggest highlight of this expansion for me was the first boss, Aava. While I wish that it was faster, had a few more moves, and could more easily chain it's attacks together, there's no denying that it's a fun fight and one of the best that the game has to offer. There's no denying that Dark Souls II has an over reliance on large humanoid bosses and of the ones that aren't large humanoids, only Najka was really good. It makes fights like this and Sinh a nice breath of fresh air.

Yep. I thought Aava was a great boss as well. Especially liked the soundtrack for the boss.

But yeah, the backtracking was one thing that I found exhausting about the DLC after multiple playthroughs.

As for Dark Souls 3, I'd be interested in seeing a LttP.
 
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