MidnightCowboy
Member
Never beat Fallout 3. On my third play through of New Vegas. It's just superior in every aspect. The world is better too, screw the Mojave haters.
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LTTP: Fallout 3 (or why I made a huge mistake in playing this after New Vegas.)
- Thread starter chaobreaker
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chaobreaker
Member
It's all up to personal opinion. This is why New Vegas is loved by many: All the big factions have their pros and cons and it's up to the player to decide which one they want to go along with in the main quest.
There's actually another choice besides those three.
You and Yes Man (Benny's robot you find behind his room at the Tops) say "fuck everybody else" and you take control of the Mojave and Hoover Dam for yourself.
I don't think there's really a consensus on any ending being better than the other. I've done all but the 4th option I just mentioned above and I don't really have a strong preference for any of them. My NCR aligned playthrough was probably my favorite though. When I sided with the Legion I was really surprised at how reasonable Caesar was. You definitely get the impression that they're purely an evil faction, and they are the most evil out of them all, but there's still some moral ambiguity there the further you go in the quests and the more Caesar opens up to you, and it's not like the NCR or House are pure sunshine and rainbows either. It's why the game is so great.
This thread seems like the perfect oportunity to post this video game. It shows why New Vegas is the superior game, from a RPG and world building point of view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvwlt4FqmS0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvwlt4FqmS0
Fimbulvetr
Member
Actually, you're mainly looking for Benny because he has the package you need to deliver.
What you wanna do with Benny himself is entirely up to you. Unlike Fallout 3, NV doesn't assume you should feel any one way about its characters.
chaobreaker
Member
In a way, there's a lot of reasons why your PC is motivated to seek out Benny. Of course one of them being "I want my chip back" but as that one poster claimed, you're search for Benny can be a story of revenge as well. Maybe you're just wondering why you got shot in the first place and you want answers from him? All of these are are displayed in some dialogue choices in the main story up until you meet him yourself.
So uh this thread and the Fallout 4 announcement made me want to give Fallout 3 one last go and I just have to ask does Bethesda purposely write their characters to be assholes or were they in a bad mood making Fallout 3?
I ask because so far most of the characters in that game are giant fucking assholes to you and it starts pretty early.
Most of the kids at your birthday party are there to talk shit about you, then at the GOAT test pretty much everyone tells your character to fuck off, and now I just ran into Three Dog and fuck if he isn't a giant asshole as well. The guy has a huge ego and a massively bloated sense of self importance with all his fighting the good fight bullshit. You play songs on the radio big fucking deal. Anyway I just got to him and was blown away that he goes on and on about how he is too important to risk his life, but then in the next sentence sends out a teenager possibly fresh out of a vault to the middle of the war zone that is DC to fix his stuff. If you question him he then goes on about how him playing music and having a few brief news segments is vitally important and how dare I question him sending me out to what has a very high chance of being my death.
I ask because so far most of the characters in that game are giant fucking assholes to you and it starts pretty early.
Most of the kids at your birthday party are there to talk shit about you, then at the GOAT test pretty much everyone tells your character to fuck off, and now I just ran into Three Dog and fuck if he isn't a giant asshole as well. The guy has a huge ego and a massively bloated sense of self importance with all his fighting the good fight bullshit. You play songs on the radio big fucking deal. Anyway I just got to him and was blown away that he goes on and on about how he is too important to risk his life, but then in the next sentence sends out a teenager possibly fresh out of a vault to the middle of the war zone that is DC to fix his stuff. If you question him he then goes on about how him playing music and having a few brief news segments is vitally important and how dare I question him sending me out to what has a very high chance of being my death.
The Lamonster
Member
How does Fallout 3 run on Windows 7?
I saw a notice on Steam about how it's not optimized for it.
I saw a notice on Steam about how it's not optimized for it.
chaobreaker
Member
It runs (relatively) fine if follow some basic optimization guides like the one on PC Gaming Wiki.
Great video but i feel thats a very small piece of the pie of what made new vegas better
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
That video is why the world building and the narrative makes sense.
Old post of mine summing up some concrete differences between the two games for those that feel New Vegas is a glorified DLC.
Easily the best wrpg in a long time. Its also everything that a sequel should be. i read a lot about "quantity vs quality" when people compare FO3 to NV but this is not true. Outside the discussion of quality and taste, here are the facts concerning the "quantities" between the two games.
- More areas to explore than Fallout 3. The base FO3 has 162 discoverable locations. New Vegas has 187.
- More quests than Fallout 3. FO3 has 59 quests in the base game. NV has 102 quests.
- More weapons than Fallout 3. FO3 has 100 different weapons in the base game. NV has 127 in its base game.
- More armor/clothing than Fallout 3. FO3 has 161 different pieces of armor and clothing. NV has 226 unique pieaces in the base game.
- More ammunition types than Fallout 3. FO3 has 18 different ammunitions.. one for each type of weapon. NV has 26 base types of ammo.. each with 3 to 7 different variations (hollow points, armor piercing, overcharged energy cells, bulk, etc).
- More songs than Fallout 3. FO3 has 37 songs in the base game. NV has 51 different songs.
- More enemy types than FO3 has 43 different enemy types in the base game. NV has 101 different enemy types.
- More consumables than Fallout 3. FO3 has 72 different consumables in the base game. NV has 158 different consumables.
- More Perks than Fallout 3. FO3 has 70 unique perks in the base game. NV has 140 unique perks.
- More Traits than Fallout 3. FO3 has zero Traits in the base game. NV has 11 different Traits.
Playing New Vegas now. Apparently I think one of the unique NPC in Sloan died in my play through so far. When I reached Sloan, we engaged in a conversation and soon after the conversation ended he and his friends ran screaming for no reason. Can't find him now and can't find his corpse to confirm his death. Too bad though because he gives quests 
this greatly annoys me.
this greatly annoys me.chaobreaker
Member
Playing New Vegas now. Apparently I think one of the unique NPC in Sloan died in my play through so far. When I reached Sloan, we engaged in a conversation and soon after the conversation ended he and his friends ran screaming for no reason. Can't find him now and can't find his corpse to confirm his death. Too bad though because he gives quests
Are you playing on PC? Some console commands can easily fix that.
Yeah I play on Steam. How do I do that? Help would be much appreciated.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
100% This.
Fallout 3 is the better game, despite feeling more dated and in some ways less refined.
Obsidian stood on the shoulders of Giants to achieve New Vegas.
fallout 3 was the better fallout game imo. new vegas was too janky and bugged for me to praise it much.
but i do agree with one thing. downtown being shit. that was a nightmare to move through if you wanted to reach a specific location. i hear fallout 4 is a non-loadtime open world, so i hope those sorts of bad design/tech limitations are gone.
but i do agree with one thing. downtown being shit. that was a nightmare to move through if you wanted to reach a specific location. i hear fallout 4 is a non-loadtime open world, so i hope those sorts of bad design/tech limitations are gone.
Playing through Fallout 3 currently and I still am scratching my head in disbelief that someone can claim that world is better then the one in NV with a straight face.
FO3's has a few things I like. For example, the intro, and first real town are memorable. Things like Tranquility Lane are cool. The pitt was kinda decent. I just hated everything else about the game, and ultimately hated the story and how it ended. It's hard to recommend it over New Vegas. Can't say I'm a fan of the other dlc either. People praise Point Lookout. I personally hated it.
Everything is connected in New Vegas in one way or another. NV Main quest line also makes an effort to get you out in the world and do side stuff you normally wouldn't do on the main path, while Fallout 3 can't be bothered. I won't even bother talking about the obviously better quest design in NV, and how that connectivity makes some quests both dynamic, and just insanely designed that there is honestly like 4-8 (sometimes more) ways to solve some quests all depending on what you did before, and what order you did it. Hell, Black Widow perk gives you two to three more options on how to deal with Benny. It's crazy.
If theres one thing I hate about NV, and FO3, it's that navigating dungeons, caves, and multi leveled areas is really annoying. Dungeons especially because some of them have terrible layouts, and everything looks the same. NV had some nice colorful dungeons so it wasn't too bad, but I hated navigating around and up some mountains for 15 mins for some great Khan camp to realize there was a small crevice somewhere. Ya, I use the local map a bunch, but sometimes it's not helpful in those situations.
I highly disagree that Fo3 has a better world. Also, functions like a sim? What the hell does that even mean? Drinking out of a radiated toilet to regain health is the furthest thing from "being a sim". New Vegas has how many factions? How many more memorable characters? All the factions have interactions with each other. All have territory they control/seize for the time being. Fo3 world seems so dead in comparison.
Everything is connected in New Vegas in one way or another. NV Main quest line also makes an effort to get you out in the world and do side stuff you normally wouldn't do on the main path, while Fallout 3 can't be bothered. I won't even bother talking about the obviously better quest design in NV, and how that connectivity makes some quests both dynamic, and just insanely designed that there is honestly like 4-8 (sometimes more) ways to solve some quests all depending on what you did before, and what order you did it. Hell, Black Widow perk gives you two to three more options on how to deal with Benny. It's crazy.
If theres one thing I hate about NV, and FO3, it's that navigating dungeons, caves, and multi leveled areas is really annoying. Dungeons especially because some of them have terrible layouts, and everything looks the same. NV had some nice colorful dungeons so it wasn't too bad, but I hated navigating around and up some mountains for 15 mins for some great Khan camp to realize there was a small crevice somewhere. Ya, I use the local map a bunch, but sometimes it's not helpful in those situations.
I highly disagree that Fo3 has a better world. Also, functions like a sim? What the hell does that even mean? Drinking out of a radiated toilet to regain health is the furthest thing from "being a sim". New Vegas has how many factions? How many more memorable characters? All the factions have interactions with each other. All have territory they control/seize for the time being. Fo3 world seems so dead in comparison.
So I recently started up Fallout 3 again too after the announcent of 4. I playe it for hpurs when it first came out but really only did the main quests and then just fooled around a lot.
Never ment to skip all the side stuff but I spent a lot if time in Vanilla Fallout 3 before they fixed then ending. Once they did that I went back for the dlc missions each release and then moved on to New Vegas.
So now that Fallout 4 is on the way, I really want to go and see the Replicated Man Quest, Vault 111 I think, since it's supposed to mention Boston somewhat. Does any know know what level is recommended for that quest and if there's anything special I should do before going?
Actually come to think of it, the Matrix side quest was one that I did on accident and totally loved it.
So now that Fallout 4 is on the way, I really want to go and see the Replicated Man Quest, Vault 111 I think, since it's supposed to mention Boston somewhat. Does any know know what level is recommended for that quest and if there's anything special I should do before going?
mario_O
Member
Yep, and still NV was a buggy mess, unplayable when it was released.
By not optimised, it translates as "may not work at all".
Dip into the community and you will read the thread upon thread of the amount of hoops that people had to jump through to get it working and not always with success.
I managed to do it on my setup thanks to a bunch of convoluted effort.
Issues can range between game not starting to random CTD once leaving the vault. Not good and Bethesda are hideous at post game support, so don't expect it to ever be fixed.
I fall in the category of having enjoyed FO3 more than New Vegas whilst thinking that New Vegas is technically a better game. I think for me theme and setting played a big part in it.
What Obsidian delivered world-wise with New Vegas is fantastic, but the feel of it fell rather flat for me. I am not a fan of the Vegas setting honestly and I don't like the music nearly as much as FO3 as I'm not a fan of big band or crooners. Some of the factions weren't engaging to me and I generally didn't enjoy the Mojave. There were also a number of completely inconsequential locations that had little of interest to them.
FO3 gave me the feeling of dread and loneliness but also wonder with the amount of non-linear exploration. I'll admit the cut-and-paste nature of the subway systems where a bit poor, but not knowing what was really down there was intimidating. The Vaults were also better in FO3 to me, much more threatening and chilling.
What Obsidian delivered world-wise with New Vegas is fantastic, but the feel of it fell rather flat for me. I am not a fan of the Vegas setting honestly and I don't like the music nearly as much as FO3 as I'm not a fan of big band or crooners. Some of the factions weren't engaging to me and I generally didn't enjoy the Mojave. There were also a number of completely inconsequential locations that had little of interest to them.
FO3 gave me the feeling of dread and loneliness but also wonder with the amount of non-linear exploration. I'll admit the cut-and-paste nature of the subway systems where a bit poor, but not knowing what was really down there was intimidating. The Vaults were also better in FO3 to me, much more threatening and chilling.
It doesn't really matter.
Apparently, better world means more bleak or apocalyptic, not a world that makes sense or logical in terms of world-building to them. :eyerolls:
The Lamonster
Member
So if I wanted to play though FO3 today, is it recommended that I play the Xbox 360 version instead?
Well I might just be one of the lucky few, but I am currently playing Fallout 3 on Windows 7 and surprisingly the game is actually more stable for me then it has ever been. Well once I edited one of the .ini files and forced the game to run on one or two cores(I don't remember which) as it didn't get along with my quadcore.
Though if you want a guarantee it will work then yeah the 360 is the way to go. Sadly you will miss out on some great(in my opinion mandatory) mods.
It's world is better in every way from the random locations that just are in the world to explore. I felt that was by far the most dissapointing part of NV and by far the best part of Fallout 3.
Nope they just had better things to see, more interesting places to explore. the amibiance of the world was just better in fallout 3. NV is better in some ways but never touches Fallout 3 in world aspect.
I disagree. All the factions are unlikable to the point of the whole thing being pointless. Which of these awful organizations do you want to leave in charge of this ruined landscape? Well it turns out none of them.
The lack of anything to work towards in NV was the biggest reason I couldn't keep going with it. I guess people like having to choose between mediocre outcomes and that makes them feel that it's more realistic than Fallout 3's happy ending? While I thought FO3 was hokey, at least the game felt like there was a purpose to what you're doing. With NV I don't know why I would work to help any of these factions consolidate power.
Gozer the Gozerian
Member
As someone who prefers NV to 3 overall, I really don't care if there is no logic to 3's world building. Stuff like a town built around an atomic bomb, a rusty old aircraft carrier with an entire community living inside it, etc. were all just fun silly ideas to me that were exciting to find and explore. In a world of giant green cartoon mutants I didn't really care if the game was presenting me with a realistic look at a post-apocalyptic society.
I don't see why less realistic or logical has to automatically equal worse.
I am surprised how if you switched around a few things it would be pretty much my opinion on to why I prefer New Vegas over 3. Like for example I hate the radio in Fallout 3 as I think most of the songs are shit and Three Dog is annoying(also an asshole as I said in a previous post) so I get a headache listening to it for too long. But that is really subjective stuff.
Anyway I will give you that the Fallout 3 world feels more bleak, but to me it also doesn't feel like a world that would exist 200 years after the bombs fell based on the other fallout games, more like a few decades after the bombs and people are just starting to climb out of their holes to rebuild. I mean just what the fuck were these people doing for the past 200 years? It gets even worse when you compare that to NV(which built off Fallout and Fallout 2) where you know they are actually starting to build stuff and regional governments are starting to form and all that jazz. Even the tribals out West seem to have their shit much more put together then those in the DC wasteland. I am also still waiting to see these awesome places that totally makes up for that though that people keep talking about. I mean I still have plenty of the map to explore but so far I haven't come across anything worth writing home about. Well the idea of Rivet City is pretty cool too bad the execution so far as been disappointing.
Even if say I overlook that stuff I have mentioned that is not even getting into just how awful most of the characters are so far and just how damn terrible Bethesda writing has been so far. I wish I could find that post(I think from Eatchildren) that I thought did a good job showing just how dumb a lot of the quests are. It was talking about the Blood Ties quest specifically, but I think the same kind of stupidity is present throughout the Fallout 3 world.
I would have more to say, but I told myself I will keep it to things I have recently observed in my current playthrough and not some vague recollection I have from when I first played it at launch.
In my opinion, both NV and 3 failed in that they have too much railroading the player through some content. I much prefer the original's method of giving the player a goal to accomplish, but no directions how to complete it. The idea is for the player to make their own story through their interaction with the setting during their journey. Too bad AAA "handholding" became the series' focus, and it will probably only get worse in 4.
I can't really see the diference. I've played both Fallout 1 and 2 this year, and the directions to follow in the normal path were pretty clear. The only real difference that I can see between them is that the new games have map markers while the old ones just told through NPC dialogs to go to the Hub or go to Necropolis, and so on and so forth.
All those things tells me that Bethesda had no regard for the setting and only made those places as gameplay spaces and nothing more.
Doesn't help that their writing and narrative/questing structure is pretty weak. I have no confidence it will improve immensely in Fallout 4. I hope I'm proven wrong, but I ain't holding my breath.
But that's another topic for another time.
Loved FO3 as did my wife. I enjoyed the setting and the DLC.
Also love NV. Enjoyed the setting and the DLC.
I tried playing the earlier fallouts but after aging over time I just can't.
If you really want my opinion on a Bethesda game I don't care for, ask me about Skyrim (more like Skybutt)
Also love NV. Enjoyed the setting and the DLC.
I tried playing the earlier fallouts but after aging over time I just can't.
If you really want my opinion on a Bethesda game I don't care for, ask me about Skyrim (more like Skybutt)
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I picked up Fallout 3 during the Summer Steam sale. I played New Vegas last winter, so I'm also one who played NV first. So far I pretty much agree with all of the criticism aimed its way. Especially the part about weaker writing and world-building and the ridiculously samey metro tunnels. There's also too much focus on combat to my liking. Every place seems to be overflowing with super mutants or raiders (but especially super mutants). For someone that initially put all her points into non-combat abilities, that was aggravating as hell until I decided to pump the guns ability.
Fallout 3 had tons of invisible walls, are you joking? Even without considering the blocked paths that funnel you into the metro tunnels, I once saw a small body of water with clearly visible ruins on the other side (it was really not a wide river at all) and tried to swim across it, and actually got an in-game message saying "You don't need to go there right now, turn back". It was the bottom edge of the map but I still laughed.
I can't think of any pro to joining the Legion though, heh. Misogynistic slavers, they reminded of ISIS.
It's the only faction I never completed. I much prefer the NCR and Yes Man endings and there are some positives to to the House ending. I just can't help a group of slavers take over New Vegas. In fact
I reluctantly did the House ending only once because he made me kill the BOS. There's no way to save them if you ally with House or the Legion
Yeah you have to be role-playing a very particular kind of character I think to look at the Legion and think "Hey those guys have the right idea". I would like to believe that Obsidian just didn't have the time to make them more fleshed out, but it is likely they wrote themselves into a corner trying to make the Legion be the terror of the wasteland.
Anyway continuing with my Fallout 3 impressions I am almost done with the game, I only have a dozen or so unexplored places on my map and then the Broken Steel quests to do and I will have done pretty much everything a good character can do.
Underwhelming is pretty much the only thing that comes to mind.
There are a few places in the game that I thought were pretty cool, Point Lookout for example, but I'll be damned if people aren't being blinded by something when they try and argue how great the Fallout 3 world is. The writing is probably the biggest offender and more often then not drags down the game. I honestly think I could of done a better job then Bethesda did and I will be the first to admit that my mastery of the written word is basic at fucking best. I also probably do to what i just mentioned I found none of the characters that interesting either which for an RPG is pretty bad. The only ones I do remember were because of how fucking annoying they were and how much I wish I could kill them. Just to say it one more time the quests also have done nothing for me and some of them were just down right stupid. I guess while I am at it fuck the karma system as well.
What is weird though is while all that makes it sound like a hate the game I don't really. Sure as an RPG it is mediocre at best, but overall I find the game to be okay. Bethesda's games are pretty much popcorn flicks for me at this point.
chaobreaker
Member
My bad, I also think the Legion is trash. There's a minority of Fallout fans that would argue that the stability and order that comes with joining the Legion makes them a better option to the NCR even with its slavery. Part of me hopes its just some edgy teenagers being edgy teenagers but you'll never know. Maybe if they weren't written to be misogynistic chaotic evil slavers, they would be more tolerable. For now I'll just fuck them over whenever I can.
That comic is pretty gross with its coded Stormfront language with those last two panels.
Lol it's not surprising considering I got it from Reddit, but the point about the comic is the hilariously bad way that Bethesda handled Quests and the karma system and not racist subliminal messaging.
chaobreaker
Member
I've seen other comics that cover that exact premise without being lowkey racist. It's not exactly the most unique idea for a Fallout 3 comic.
To be honest, I thought Tenpenny Towers is a well made quest. Not exactly perfect but it does something that was much appreciated: It's the only quest in the game in which doing something good for once actually bites you in the ass. Getting the ghouls into the complex nets you good karma but at the cost of every human tennent, good or bad, getting killed by that Ghoul leader. He's a fucking asshole all the way through the quest and honestly he should have been programmed to be a karmaless kill as a result. Maybe it was an oversight by Bethesda?
Regardless, I think the series could always go for more morally ambiguous quests, even if it means the results are not always going to be the way you want them. I mean, you only find out what happened to the humans of Tenpenny tower days after you complete the quest.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I uh... helped the Ghouls move in, but I killed Tenpenny (for the other quest) and everyone seemed happy, so I just didn't go back there and I assumed I did good.
Something tells me I should uh, go back there and have a look...
Something tells me I should uh, go back there and have a look...
Really? I think the Legion is very well categorized and you can find plenty of incentives or pros as to why they are the better faction to side with. Of course, the most compelling argument as to why the Legion is the best choice comes from Caeser himself when he compares the Legion to the NCR. You see the NCR, despite its propaganda, in in actuality a dictatorship. President Tandi ruled the NCR for 52 years, the problem is that ever since it's death the NCR has lacked stable leadership. The main problem with the NCR it that it is a highly expansionist yet highly bureaucratic form of government. It simply wishes to expand and take over everything within its sight without actually ensuring they have the proper resources in place to support said expansion. The NCR has simply become too big to support itself and is doomed to collapse under its own weight.
Throughout the game you are exposed to the highly inefficient and bureaucratic nature of the NCR. Whether it's the solders who are consistently saddled with incompetent or contradictory orders coupled with a lack of supplies, locals complaining about the high tax rates of the NCR or their inefficiency in dealing with local problems, or just the general rampant corruption seen through all levels of the faction. The NCR, at least on the outside, projects itself as this beacon of democracy and freedom but in actuality that is far from the truth.
On the other hand, the Legion offers uniformity. I could write a long write up on what that actually means but all one has to do is look at the past society they are attempting to model themselves after, Rome. The Legion or rather Caesar understands that this idea of democracy and "freedom" doesn't work in this post-nuclear wasteland. Rather, people need to be united under one identity, one culture, one law, one leader. Instead of people just doing whatever they want the State mandates certain roles that must be fulfilled in order to ensure the preservation of society. In addition, a sense of discipline and pride in their culture is instilled at a very young age ensuring and fostering a greater sense of community within the Empire. You should take note that you rarely EVER hear a Legionnaire complain about the Legion or Caeser, on the other hand, you will hear from NCR citizens and soldiers constant complaints about the NCR. Now, this isn't just attributed to a fear of reprisal for speaking out Legionnaire's have a sort of respect and pride in their culture and thus look upon those "free" citizens of the NCR as the true uncivilized people.
It's the classic struggle between Order and Chaos. The Legion offer total Order at the expense of most all personal freedom. The NCR offers much greater personal freedom but at the cost of Order allowing for more Chaos in all its forms.
Here's Caeser's full beautiful explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyeTaXv6o4Y
I may not agree with the Legion along with many others here but they are not exactly wrong nor are they poorly integrated. Honestly, I think the Legion is probably the best choice initially in the Wasteland of Fallout. The country needs to be unified once again under a single identity, afterwards once the population is united and thus able to educate themselves they will be able to return to democracy,
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Dude, what the fuck. They're slavers who subjugate women. Either of those are reasons enough to reject them entirely, but they do both.
The NCR is not perfect, obviously, but the Legion is on par with the nazis and ISIS. Are you for real?
The NCR is not perfect, obviously, but the Legion is on par with the nazis and ISIS. Are you for real?