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[charlequin]

EDIT: SORRY I JUST CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THIS WONDERFUL GAME

Reading comprehension, buddy. I have stated several times in this thread that it isn't the premise, it's the execution.

Which you know jack shit about, because you barely played the game and you ignored all the explanations of why your original description isn't fully accurate.

A journey to gradually restore the world following the oppression of Sin.

These people literally went from living under a constant unpredictable death sentence for eternity to being totally freed, total insane partying and bubbly happiness is absolutely a correct (and also, psychologically accurate) response here.

I don't think anybody reacted poorly on the basis of it being "centered on girls"; they reacted because it was done poorly.

It's definitely unfair to assume this is the only reason people disliked it (even as a die-hard afficionado I can admit to many flaws), but no, absolutely a metric fuckton of people hated on this game purely because it was "girly." (Just search this thread for the word "cringe.")

Invoking Poe's Law here, are we

look son this was my avatar for years long before you ever registered

The way you describe the game is interesting, but if that's true it sounds like the game was trying to serve two masters – the libido of teenage boys, and the desire of the game's creators to tell a different kind of story and with a different kind of (more female-empowered) characters. Doesn't one undercut the other?

I mean, again, it's hard to be objective about this in its original context from 2016, but compare this game to any of the ridiculous fanservice in just about every JRPG coming out today and it feels downright conservative in comparison. When you get down to it the sexiness appeal here is really just the characters wearing somewhat skimpy but vaguely plausible outfits.

Hey I never say FFX Yuna is a great character, but at least she's consistent through out. Then X-2 came out and throw that characterization out of the window...

How? What does Yuna do in X-2 that's not in keeping with her personality in FFX? I hear people offer this up a lot but the evidence is often stuff like "she wears skimpy outfits" (I'd like to hope Yuna's character has more to it than just covering up) or "she's this ridiculous pop idol" (when it's not even her in the opening sequence, and it actually takes most of the game's plot for her to get comfortable with the idea) or "she's pushy and says stuff like 'I don't like your plan. It sucks'" (which is true but again, the result of the whole game's development arc.)

 

[poodaddy]

Which you know jack shit about, because you barely played the game and you ignored all the explanations of why your original description isn't fully accurate.



These people literally went from living under a constant unpredictable death sentence for eternity to being totally freed, total insane partying and bubbly happiness is absolutely a correct (and also, psychologically accurate) response here.



It's definitely unfair to assume this is the only reason people disliked it (even as a die-hard afficionado I can admit to many flaws), but no, absolutely a metric fuckton of people hated on this game purely because it was "girly." (Just search this thread for the word "cringe.")

And why do you assume that cringey automatically means girly? See my post about my wife who despised it; she said it made her feel stupid, and this is from someone who loves Sailor Moon. My wife is about as "girly" as they come, but she doesn't care for overly corny or hoakey stuff, thus the term cringey. You like the game, great, but please don't assume those that don't are basing the distaste for it on some form of juvenile sexism. That is, in and of itself, a very disingenuous and biased insinuation.

 

[Boss Doggie]

And why do you assume that cringey automatically means girly? See my post about my wife who despised it; she said it made her feel stupid, and this is from someone who loves Sailor Moon. My wife is about as "girly" as they come, but she doesn't care for overly corny or hoakey stuff, thus the term cringey. You like the game, great, but please don't assume those that don't are basing the distaste for it on some form of juvenile sexism. That is, in and of itself, a very disingenuous and biased insinuation.

While I'm not saying the game is deep, I'd argue it has layers, like the external look of corniness and camp belie a rather dark situation as well as emotional troubles.

 

[eyeball_kid]

I mean, again, it's hard to be objective about this in its original context from 2016, but compare this game to any of the ridiculous fanservice in just about every JRPG coming out today and it feels downright conservative in comparison. When you get down to it the sexiness appeal here is really just the characters wearing somewhat skimpy but vaguely plausible outfits.

Fair enough. It's hard to even remember the context when it came out. I feel like the games media definitely portrayed it as a pulpy, fan service romp and shaped how I viewed it. I certainly don't remember hearing about a serious plot or that it really treated the characters with respect. I'll have to put it on the list.

 

[Atlantis]

God this game is so fun. You can spend hours and hours just creating fun and powerful set ups for your characters. Shame the balance is so terrible.

 

[charlequin]

And why do you assume that cringey automatically means girly?

Look at how this critique is deployed. You see it broken out repeatedly to talk about this game -- not all Final Fantasy games, or JRPGs in general, but this specific game. You see it used to talk about very specific things: the intro sequence, the outfits, the fact that there's a team of three women, the fact that you use costume changes to activate your powers. It doesn't get broken out the same way to talk about about clunky dialogue in FF6 or Wakka being a goofy cliche of a small town hick in the early parts of FFX; it's reserved for these elements in X-2 that are very actively, very clearly coded as feminine. What is it exactly that makes these things cringy? What about the opening sequence of this game -- which in content is exactly like any number of goofy Hollywood movies or popular TV shows -- is so embarrassing that someone would be humiliated to be seen playing it if it isn't the aggressive femininity? Everything about these critiques follow an old, well-familiar script for how men talk about things that are too female-coded so as to preserve their appearance of masculinity. Sure it's possible that someone (like your convenient counterexample woman here) happens to phrase a totally distinct critique in the same way, but that doesn't change anything about the general way this argument is deployed.

(That's all putting aside the fact that I was around when this game originally came out and so I'm perfectly aware of exactly how much of the criticism at the time was based in paranoid, defensive sexism; for those who weren't there, it was a whole lot.)

You like the game, great, but please don't assume those that don't are basing the distaste for it on some form of juvenile sexism. That is, in and of itself, a very disingenuous and biased insinuation.

I'm not going to argue if you say you in particular only dislike it for entirely objective reasons and this discussion is about a general trend about this game not making "insinuations" so climb down off the cross please.

 

[poodaddy]

Look at how this critique is deployed. You see it broken out repeatedly to talk about this game -- not all Final Fantasy games, or JRPGs in general, but this specific game. You see it used to talk about very specific things: the intro sequence, the outfits, the fact that there's a team of three women, the fact that you use costume changes to activate your powers. It doesn't get broken out the same way to talk about about clunky dialogue in FF6 or Wakka being a goofy cliche of a small town hick in the early parts of FFX; it's reserved for these elements in X-2 that are very actively, very clearly coded as feminine. What is it exactly that makes these things cringy? What about the opening sequence of this game -- which in content is exactly like any number of goofy Hollywood movies or popular TV shows -- is so embarrassing that someone would be humiliated to be seen playing it if it isn't the aggressive femininity? Everything about these critiques follow an old, well-familiar script for how men talk about things that are too female-coded so as to preserve their appearance of masculinity. Sure it's possible that someone (like your convenient counterexample woman here) happens to phrase a totally distinct critique in the same way, but that doesn't change anything about the general way this argument is deployed.

(That's all putting aside the fact that I was around when this game originally came out and so I'm perfectly aware of exactly how much of the criticism at the time was based in paranoid, defensive sexism; for those who weren't there, it was a whole lot.)

Do I detect an accusation against the existence of my wife here? The use of convenient in your phrasing seems almost accusatory. All I'll say is someone helped me create the perfect little girl in my profile pic with me there :/.

As far as the word cringey being confined to use in dealing with this game, I think this is now coming down to selective memory or selective reading. I would argue that cringey is used to describe a great many Final Fantasy stories, X2 not withstanding, and I'd wager it's used extremely often. For example, I myself do find FFX to be extremely cringey as well, though not to the same degree of FFX2, but that has nothing to do with the female oriented writing or presentation. A better example is ffxv, which I find infinitely more cringey than FFX2 and that's due purely to the boy band inspired art style and feel of the game, it's just corny. Another example is that Vincent Final Fantasy game whose name is escaping me at the moment; that's probably one of the cringiest of the whole lot due purely to the overbearing try hardy moodiness of the entire game in general and Vincent as a character. Perhaps I speak for myself and my "convenient" wife, but we use cringey to describe a great many things that we perceive as just corny, awkward, or hoakey, and I'd go so far as to wager that most other posters have been using it in much the same context.

 

[charlequin]

Do I detect an accusation against the existence of my wife here?

The argument "well I know a {person of type x} who isn't here but they prove nobody has any kind of bias!" just doesn't actually establish anything about anyone else. I'm sure your family are all perfectly lovely people, but a single woman who isn't even participating in the conversation disliking the game for purely non-sexist reasons doesn't prove anything at all about anyone else's reaction.

As far as the word cringey being confined to use in dealing with this game, I think this is now coming down to selective memory or selective reading.

Again, I question how to explain some of the exact uses otherwise. What about this game is "more embarrassing" than being seen watching porn, if not that something so "girly" is innately embarrassing to a man? What is it about "It's showtime, girls" or a bouncy pop song in the intro that's orders of magnitude worse than the silly action dialogue and pop songs of previous games -- again, unless it's that it's so feminine that it impugns the masculinity of any male person seen enjoying it.

Like, this game doesn't exist in a cultural vacuum. The idea that feminine things are inherently inferior, and that men should feel threatened by them because liking them is inherently embarrassing and emasculating, is very well-established -- just searching "embarrassing girly" brings up tons of discussions of how men won't admit to enjoying bubble baths or lady pop musicians or fruity drinks. Just putting women as protagonists in a formerly male-lead story produces this kind of threatened response (just look at the ludicrous overreactions to the Ghostbusters movie.) This game hits similar notes (female-voiced pop music, playing dress-up, etc.) early on, so a negative overreaction borne of men disliking girly stuff is only to be expected since that's what happens with all girly stuff as soon as it enters the male sphere in our (at least American) culture.

 

[patapuf]

Fair enough. It's hard to even remember the context when it came out. I feel like the games media definitely portrayed it as a pulpy, fan service romp and shaped how I viewed it. I certainly don't remember hearing about a serious plot or that it really treated the characters with respect. I'll have to put it on the list.

I don't think that's untrue, though fanservice here really means "for fans". You revisit a lot of location from FFX and meet lots of old accaintances and see how they adjust to the new world. If you didn't like FFX i don't think you can become all that invested in anyhting X-2 does narratively.

There is a serious story and the characters aren't disrespected, but at it's core it's still a pretty lighthearted adventure and i think the best moments of the game is stuff that's not directly related to the FFX plot.

The narrative is not a masterpiece but it's a good enough as backdrop for the mechanically best "old school" FF combat system. Even if one doesn't finish the game, checking that out is worth it for a fan of the series imo.

 

[Star Falcon]

I liked the massage mini-game!

 

[Bladenic]

I liked the massage mini-game!

Motomu Toriyama knew exactly what he was doing with the massage scene.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

I don't think that's untrue, though fanservice here really means "for fans". You revisit a lot of location from FFX and meet lots of old accaintances and see how they adjust to the new world. If you didn't like FFX i don't think you can become all that invested in anyhting X-2 does narratively.

There is a serious story and the characters aren't disrespected, but at it's core it's still a pretty lighthearted adventure and i think the best moments of the game is stuff that's not directly related to the FFX plot.

The narrative is not a masterpiece but it's a good enough as backdrop for the mechanically best "old school" FF combat system. Even if one doesn't finish the game, checking that out is worth it for a fan of the series imo.

Fanservice also means the classic anime since of 'sex appeal/cheesecake as well' here. Yuna and Riku shed a lot of clothing, all the new females are fairly scantly clad, while all new males were fully covered. FFX had it's cheesecake as well, but they really pushed it here. I remember a lot of female FFX fans back in the day being a bit put off by it pre-release.

Granted, their outfits became ps2 era icons, and are still popular cosplay.

Though, by today's standards it's very tame.

And it's still a fun as heck game, though I never finished it (borrowed it form a friend near release). I need to find the time for the HD release which I actually own, but it's part of my rpg hell backlog.

 

[Laughing Banana]

It's too bad that many people would just view the first cutscene and immediately "OMG, POP TRASH!" when playing FFX-2.

I truly felt that behind all the silly-looking veneer the game has a genuine heart behind it, with heartfelt atmosphere all around. A small example: the conclusion of the whole Wakka-Lulu relationship: it's so nice to see two of the people I've spent so many hours together with in FFX actually settled down together and the game actually showed me that! It felt nice.

Not to mention the battle system was kick-ass too.

 

[KeRaSh]

My opinion on this game is based on my playthrough as a kid so I'm not sure how accurate that would be today. I haven't touched the game since then but one thing that particularly bothered me was the fact that the limit break dress spheres were missable. Apparently I missed two of the three dress spheres and that bummed me out big time.

 

[Krabboss]

Look at how this critique is deployed. You see it broken out repeatedly to talk about this game -- not all Final Fantasy games, or JRPGs in general, but this specific game. You see it used to talk about very specific things: the intro sequence, the outfits, the fact that there's a team of three women, the fact that you use costume changes to activate your powers. It doesn't get broken out the same way to talk about about clunky dialogue in FF6 or Wakka being a goofy cliche of a small town hick in the early parts of FFX; it's reserved for these elements in X-2 that are very actively, very clearly coded as feminine. What is it exactly that makes these things cringy? What about the opening sequence of this game -- which in content is exactly like any number of goofy Hollywood movies or popular TV shows -- is so embarrassing that someone would be humiliated to be seen playing it if it isn't the aggressive femininity? Everything about these critiques follow an old, well-familiar script for how men talk about things that are too female-coded so as to preserve their appearance of masculinity. Sure it's possible that someone (like your convenient counterexample woman here) happens to phrase a totally distinct critique in the same way, but that doesn't change anything about the general way this argument is deployed.

(That's all putting aside the fact that I was around when this game originally came out and so I'm perfectly aware of exactly how much of the criticism at the time was based in paranoid, defensive sexism; for those who weren't there, it was a whole lot.)



I'm not going to argue if you say you in particular only dislike it for entirely objective reasons and this discussion is about a general trend about this game not making "insinuations" so climb down off the cross please.

This has always been my interpretation of the complaints made about this game too. If you're having this knee jerk reaction to the intro of the game and not the numerous awful voice acted cutscenes in FFX, I think that's pretty telling.

 

[Daeoc]

I just wanna say that I'm not at all serious in a lot of my posts in this thread, and if you disagree with what I say that's cool it's not a big deal, we're discussing a game.

However, the Yuna argument is also one that I cannot grasp. For one, it's been 2 years since FFX, it's not like the ending cutscene for X finished and Yuna threw off her clothes and picked up compression shorts and a revealing top. I'm sure not everyone saw that short video Eternal Calm but it did a decent amount of bridging to X-2.

Furthermore, I can't understand how people say her personality was completely different or thrown away. If anything, Yuna in X-2 is a continuation of the growth she had in X. She's still struggling with not being used by people, and Paine and Rikku call her out on it all the time with her tendency to say Yes to everyone no matter what they ask. Not to mention, she's also TRYING not to be so uptight and formal, even going so far as to copy some of the dumb shit Rikku says just because she thinks it's cool or whatever.

I mean, I could go on, but Yuna is still Yuna, for better or worse. And again, considering what she went through, what she achieved and lost, she deserved to cut loose. That's not having a "different" personality. It's not like people in real life can't change, especially over the course of TWO YEARS.

Again, this ain't that serious. It's just that a lot of the more popular arguments against X-2 are generally just plain false. But opinions and all that.

This guy gets it. When you think about how Yuna was raised and what she believed in, it's no surprise she is how she is in X-2 after X and finally being able to be herself with no restraints on her; how she's "supposed" to act as a summoner(along with the expectations of being Braska's daughter), her beliefs(and the beliefs of the commoner), not having the weight of the world on her shoulders and most of all the fact that she no longer knows where and when she is going to die, most likely making this time in her life the first time she can have her own goals/dreams, other than just fighting Sin, without thinking "I won't live that long to do that".

 

[Mokujin]

One of the best Final Fantasy combat systems though, so there is that.

I also had some fun with a couple of mini-games.

 

[NCR Redslayer]

Eh its more of an afterstory than sequel. But that job system tho.

 

[Laughing Banana]

One thing tho: even the most ardent defenders of the game surely wouldn't be able to defend this:

What-the-fuck from top to bottom.

 

[theofficefan99]

I'll honestly take X-2 over XIII-2 any day.

 

[V_Arnold]

Charlequin and the rest of the FFX-2 "defense force": this thread has convinced me to buy that FFX/X-2 remaster. FFX was a favorite game of mine and I only played X-2 briefly before moving out to college, where I had no access to PS2 for a few years, and after that, WoW just destroyed my free time. (and FFXII shortly before that ).

It is time to experience this properly.

 

[Vancouver]

The style and campiness of the game was a little much the first time I played the game because I wasn't expecting it.

However the core gameplay and battle system is excellent. Add that in to me wanting to complete the story and get the ending I wanted from FFX and I stuck with it and enjoyed the experience overall.

 

[Turin]

I'll honestly take X-2 over XIII-2 any day.

Well, yeah.

Surely it's better than anything XIII related.

 

[Planeswalker]

I never understood the dislike for FFX-2.

In terms of plot, it made sense.

FFX's plot was already kind of crazy to begin with.

FFX-2's plot and Yuna's attempt

Spoiler

bring back Tidus

was acceptable.

The problem I have with FFX's plot was that it was literally go from point A to B, then defeat the main threat, and that's it.

Sin was this threat that people couldn't figure out how to beat but how the FFX cast defeated it was simply by just attacking it. The plot doesn't really have that many twists or turns.

IMO, Chrono Trigger did the unknown threat thing better than FFX.

Spoiler

When Crono and team encountered Lavos in the middle of the game and Crono died, that was a serious moment.

. That moment in Chrono Trigger had you guessing how you were supposed to defeat the main threat. Chrono Cross also did it better yet again (I mean actually figuring out how to defeat the final boss properly in Chrono Cross was an interesting reveal in gameplay and in story).

Anyway, the reason I am commenting on FFX's plot is that lots of people that dislike FFX-2 said FFX-2 story ruined FFX's story/plot but FFX's plot is kind of generic. I mean, how the FFX cast resolved the conflict was to move from point A to B, then find out instead of using the final aeon, it'd work better to just attack it (and it actually works). It's a reveal but it's not the most exciting reveal in a story IMO.

FFX-2 has the best battle system. Plot made sense. The extra dungeon is probably the hardest dungeon in the FF series (requires lots of thought and planning to defeat the extra bosses there if you do not cheese them with the catnip accessory in the original version).

Finally, as some have pointed out already, Yuna was kind of just doing whatever people told her to do in FFX. Her path towards to FFX-2 made sense. I mean, she was supposed to do a lot of things in FFX just because people told her to do all these things but after meeting Tidus (and Tidus saying screw it), she also said screw it and instead did what she thought was right in her own way.

As for the story, I actually found the background regarding two new major characters

Spoiler

Shuyin and Lenne

interesting additions to FFX's world.

And there was also background on how they tried to defeat Sin in the past too that wasn't present in FFX which also made it interesting (in fact it's one of the major plot points in the game).

 

[Rappy]

EDIT: SORRY I JUST CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THIS WONDERFUL GAME

Y'know, the problem with these threads is that one side cares so much and the other side barely care at all.

This thread just made me realize that Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE is pretty much the modern day X-2. Except no one cares because no one owns a Wii U(hyperbole here).

People can complain about the story, setting, etc. and I get that, but to say the battle system is boring!? X-2 has the best battle system in the FF franchise, imo. It is definitely the best of the games that included ATB system, at the very least. And yes, it is that good [compared to games in the FF franchise].

I am now reminded of picking up both X and X-2 on X-2's release day probably because of this great review from 2003 (which goes over many things mentioned in this thread and also comments on the backlash from FF fans):

http://www.ign.com/articles/2003/11/07/final-fantasy-x-2-3

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

again, it is not an idol aesthetic, the fuck is this

Yes, it LITERALLY is.

You can pick a bone with anything i said, but you can't fight something that's legitimately in the story, since Yuna is actually an idol and icon to the people of Spira.

 

[Rappy]

Yes, it LITERALLY is.

You can pick a bone with anything i said, but you can't fight something that's legitimately in the story, since Yuna is actually an idol and icon to the people of Spira.

What exactly do you even mean by "idol aesthetic"? That there is just someone singing? Idol culture today is definitely different than what is was in 2003. And I haven't played it recently but aren't there only like 2-3 storylines/plot points involving the Songstress dressphere in the entire game (albeit they have the biggest cutscenes)?

 

[Boss Doggie]

Yes, it LITERALLY is.

You can pick a bone with anything i said, but you can't fight something that's legitimately in the story, since Yuna is actually an idol and icon to the people of Spira.

someone being a female singing isn't an idol, otherwise every female singer in Japan is an idol

she is essentially a pop star, and honestly all of the game's tropes are more leaning towards magical girl stuff

What exactly do you even mean by "idol aesthetic"? That there is just someone singing? Idol culture today is definitely different than what is was in 2003. And I haven't played it recently but aren't there only like 2-3 storylines/plot points involving the Songstress dressphere in the entire game (albeit they have the biggest cutscenes)?

Only 2 - the ones with songs. And even then technically Yuna only sang once. And again, the aesthetic is more like a pop star concert than an idol.

 

[yunbuns]

I know a Gaffer made this one, it had to have been...

Yes lol. Although I technically made it before I joined Gaf for FFX2 week on tumblr.

FF7 is one of my least liked FF's beside XIII. Never undertood the "benchmark" it was supposed to be, i played it back in the day too and it seemed pretty lackluster.

Ditto. Don't really like VII and I'm only excited for the remake because of Tifa and the fact that it's existence makes me hopeful that VIII or IX could get remade one day too.

If there's one thing I dislike about the FF fandom is how sometimes it seems you're expected to auotmatically 'like' certain games and dislike others. I heard so many bad things about XII before I played it myself and really enjoyed it, despite it's flaws. Where I overall just felt 'meh' about VII and didn't even bother finishing the game because that's how much I didn't care. For years, I felt ashamed for liking X-2 because of reactions online about it before I grew some sense and stopped caring what other people thought. It does make my little teenage heart flutter seeing so many people defend it though. :')

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

What exactly do you even mean by "idol aesthetic"? That there is just someone singing? Idol culture today is definitely different than what is was in 2003. And I haven't played it recently but aren't there only like 2-3 storylines/plot points involving the Songstress dressphere in the entire game (albeit they have the biggest cutscenes)?

someone being a female singing isn't an idol, otherwise every female singer in Japan is an idol

she is essentially a pop star, and honestly all of the game's tropes are more leaning towards magical girl stuff



Only 2 - the ones with songs. And even then technically Yuna only sang once. And again, the aesthetic is more like a pop star concert than an idol.

There must be something in the meaning i didn't mean then. I was strictly referring to "pop idol" and that angle. Sorry if that wasn't clear/the term carries more baggage then I realized.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Idol is different than your usual pop star because they go more beyond singing. Like they do sponsoring, they have this fictional image of being pure, etc.

Yuna doesn't really have that baggage of "needing to carry an image". She just performs, so she's more of a pop singer.

 

[kromeo]

Music is an important part of the FFs and X-2 has by far the worst in the series. In fact the main piano theme is the only tune in the game I particularly remember liking

Plus Rikku's outfit is Quiet levels of trash

 

[Bladenic]

Did the game ever actually say why exactly Leblanc decided to throw a concert disguised as Yuna? And for that matter, Leblanc looking like Yuna when using the dressphere didn't make sense either, since the spheres didn't change a person to literally look like the possessor. Maybe I just can't remember.

 

[Krabboss]

Music is an important part of the FFs and X-2 has by far the worst in the series. In fact the main piano theme is the only tune in the game I particularly remember liking

Plus Rikku's outfit is Quiet levels of trash

X-2's soundtrack is pretty solid.

 

[Gurnlei]

The defense force for the game makes some good points, enough that Spira celebrating after finally being freed from Sin makes it almost believable, but as much as people try to explain the leap from FFX Yuna to FFX-2 Yuna doesn't work for me. It's past character growth at that point - almost like a completely different person.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Plus Rikku's outfit is Quiet levels of trash

wat

I mean, it's fanservice-y, but compared to Quiet it's tame.

Also you can bypass that by making her start with a different sphere.

 

[pa22word]

The secret sole redeeming qualities of both X and X-2 are their battle systems.

Without them both being so much fun to play they both probably would have been dumped in the trash right after beating them. The only difference between why I can tolerate X-2 more, and thus tend to play it more, is because at least X-2 knows what it is and doesn't beat you over the head with it's own pretentious melodrama like X does.

 

[Weebos]

This is still my favorite Final Fantasy game.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Completely agree OP, game is trash.

 

[Lt.Chips]

SE had a MUCH more interesting and charismatic trio in Jeckt, Braska, and Auron but goes with the cringeworthy three girls for FFX-2. Missed opportunity.

 

[Lupin3]

My favorite FF game back in the days. Haven't played it for 12 years or so, but I would bet it still is. It was totally great!

 

[mordecaii83]

The defense force for the game makes some good points, enough that Spira celebrating after finally being freed from Sin makes it almost believable, but as much as people try to explain the leap from FFX Yuna to FFX-2 Yuna doesn't work for me. It's past character growth at that point - almost like a completely different person.

Of course it's a different person. The Yuna from FFX ceased to exist the moment the entire reason for her identity was shattered.

In FFX she's basically a tool of Yevon, going through the motions because she felt it was needed. By the end of FFX the religion is revealed to be a farce, so everything she's done in her life up to that point must feel as if it's been for nothing.

Making a wild swing in the other direction really isn't all that crazy. And even then, she's still herself. She's constantly getting pushed by Rikku especially to have more fun, and her internal dialogue at parts of the game shows that while she may be acting differently on the outside she still has similar thoughts inside.

 

[Gurnlei]

Of course it's a different person. The Yuna from FFX ceased to exist the moment the entire reason for her identity was shattered.

In FFX she's basically a tool of Yevon, going through the motions because she felt it was needed. By the end of FFX the religion is revealed to be a farce, so everything she's done in her life up to that point must feel as if it's been for nothing.

Making a wild swing in the other direction really isn't all that crazy. And even then, she's still herself. She's constantly getting pushed by Rikku especially to have more fun, and her internal dialogue at parts of the game shows that while she may be acting differently on the outside she still has similar thoughts inside.

Like I said, that was brought up in earlier posts. Just seems like more than reaching to explain it and doesn't work. Opinions I guess.

 

[MartyStu]

The secret sole redeeming qualities of both X and X-2 are their battle systems.

Without them both being so much fun to play they both probably would have been dumped in the trash right after beating them. The only difference between why I can tolerate X-2 more, and thus tend to play it more, is because at least X-2 knows what it is and doesn't beat you over the head with it's own pretentious melodrama like X does.

I like you. You have good opinions.

 

[mordecaii83]

Like I said, that was brought up in earlier posts. Just seems like more than reaching to explain it and doesn't work. Opinions I guess.

So you really think someone whose personality in the first game was entirely defined by her dedication to the pilgrimage and the Yevon religion is going to act the same after she was physically assaulted by that organization, found out it was a scam, and lost one of the few things she had left to hold onto (Tidus)? I'm not going to derail the thread, I'd just find it a lot harder to believe that someone wouldn't change after all that.

Edit: It's also obvious she isn't comfortable being seen as the savior of the world, so her adventuring would also be a way to get out of any social/political responsibilities pertaining to that.

Anyway, enough about that, back to talking about how FFX-2 is actually a good game!

 

[Gurnlei]

So you really think someone whose personality in the first game was entirely defined by her dedication to the pilgrimage and the Yevon religion is going to act the same after she was physically assaulted by that organization, found out it was a scam, and lost one of the few things she had left to hold onto (Tidus)? I'm not going to derail the thread, I'd just find it a lot harder to believe that someone wouldn't change after all that.

Edit: It's also obvious she isn't comfortable being seen as the savior of the world, so her adventuring would also be a way to get out of any social/political responsibilities pertaining to that.

Anyway, enough about that, back to talking about how FFX-2 is actually a good game!

I believe Yuna, growing up under Lord Braska, would have always been reserved/sheltered/etc.

Edit: Just saw, but yes, I think she should change after gaining some freedom. But like I said before, again, this is beyond believable character growth. Not saying it couldn't happen, because it obviously did, but it came off unreasonable to me.

 

[Lothar]

Yuna in FFX is one of my favorite characters in video games, how she grows from being shy to being strong, her selflessness, her attitude in that she can be laughing and having fun on a journey to her death, her serious mature side in sending spirits and wanting to handle Seymour on her own without risking the lives of others, her relationship with Tidus that felt believable, her emotion at the ending, etc..

Her saying words like Disassterific and poopie in FFX-2 copying Rikku is undoubtedly cringy. As well as the massage game and the Charlie Angels poses and other things like that. Nothing wrong with not being a fan of the over the top goofy tone. Nothing wrong with being embarrassed by it.

The switch to X-2 Yuna is really jarring and takes some time getting used to. I would have preferred to start off right after FFX and see her gradually change. She does have a few good serious moments later on. Ends up still being good by the end. The real problem is all the other characters. They dumbed Rikku down and I never saw a reason to care about Paine at all. Any time Brother talks is the most cringy and embarrassing part of the game. All the new characters are not memorable.

 

[Cornbread78]

Yes lol. Although I technically made it before I joined Gaf for FFX2 week on tumblr.

LOL, close enough.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Do people really think the way women are portrayed in this game isn't condescending as hell?

- Singing/dancing
- Dress-up
- Heroines in Revealing clothes
- Bath Scene
- Obnoxious, incompetent female villian in revealing clothes
- Message Scene

What is this game saying to the little girls that play it?

I found an interesting critique here:

https://ladygeekgirl.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/ace-plays-final-fantasy-x-2-the-sexism/

People always assume games and stories with a mostly-female cast will alienate male audience members, as if they think that being centered on women can never be interesting enough to attract male audiences. So they try to sexualize the girls as much as possible. It’s that mindset where anything masculine can be perceived as good and entertaining, but femininity? Oh, boy, we’ve got to sex that shit up if any guy’s going to be interested in it! Lord knows, character development and story arcs aren’t enough for a fulfilling game if it’s all about women.

So this is possibly the most sexist Final Fantasy game I have ever played, just from that aspect.

I’m sorry, but I have a hard time believing that the very reserved, shy girl in the first game is at all comfortable in an outfit that doesn’t cover her full chest. She didn’t seem like someone who would be comfortable with that much skin showing. And while there’s nothing wrong with female characters who just like to wear short-shorts and show off skin, for Yuna, this is a complete 360. It can be argued that her awkward characterization by itself is not sexist, just to be clear. If she were male, we’d still have the same problem; that is, we’d still have a main character who has no idea what to do with himself. What’s sexist in this game is how it’s done with Yuna’s character, and that’s more or less in the clothing.

Though the battle system is fun as I said earlier, it’s about changing clothes. The first Final Fantasy game with an all-female party is about changing clothes. And forgive me, but some of these outfits are not conducive to battle.

 

[Punchy4486]

Did the game ever actually say why exactly Leblanc decided to throw a concert disguised as Yuna? And for that matter, Leblanc looking like Yuna when using the dressphere didn't make sense either, since the spheres didn't change a person to literally look like the possessor. Maybe I just can't remember.

I can't remember why Leblanc threw the concert, but based on my memory of the HD release last year, I think she looks like Yuna because she's using Yuna's Garment Grid, in addition to the Songstress Dressphere. So, I think the Yuna look comes from her Garment Grid... apparently.