That much is obvious.
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LTTP : FF X-2 - WTF is this!?
- Thread starter HotHamBoy
- Start date
That much is obvious.
ForsakenLotus
Member
It's cringy, but it's also really fun to play.
You're probably being sarcastic, but I love that theme. Fits Leblanc and the goons perfectly. Other standouts include Eternity, Wind Crest, Real Emotion, Aeons, the character themes, Besaid, Kilika, and of course, Zanarkand Ruins.
Via Purifico
Banned
Isn't that true for virtually every big bad?
I don't think that reasoning is particularly true. One of my biggest criticisms was how aimless the party was in FFXIII. They literally just went place to place and never had a plan for anything. The final boss wasn't planned. The aftermath wasn't planned. Like literally no one thought anything through.
For FFX their newly gained knowledge of Sin to their advantage. Sure you can boil down to them using brute force, but they had a plan. They knew what they had to do to get rid of Sin eternally.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
holy shit seriously? You really pulling this crap? Especially the Doronbo gang? Why do I get the feeling your actual rage from this game is because of that.
If that's the case I'm pulling out on this thread, nothing good ever comes to people who has this mindset when arguing.
I guess I don't know what you mean by "this mindset."
I had to look up what Doronbo Gang was. I remember them in Tatsunoko vs Capcom. That's funny though, I see the inspiration.
charlequin
Banned
Hmmmm, I wonder what the difference is between these two groups. 😕
This is a bizarre position to me. Yuna's character development is unrealistic because it's impossible for people to change? No one who's reserved has ever become more outgoing and adventurous over time and with a change in circumstances? No one who grew up in a religious household with an aggressive sense of modesty ever discovered in adulthood that they could enjoy dressing up in more exciting and revealing outfits? I don't think any of these are a stretch at all in a real person, and Yuna has more cause for her personality to shift than most real people do.
This is exactly what I was talking about. It's condescending to make a game with women where there's pop music and dress-up, because pop music and dress-up are inherently inferior interests, because they're things that women like. To not "condescend" to women in this world you have to stick to the absolute most extreme bro garbage because that's the only way to prove you aren't making the insulting assumption that some women enjoy feminine-coded things. This whole argument goes hand-in-hand with the idea that it's "embarrassing" for a man to be seen playing this game because of all the feminine-coded stuff in it.
hurricanes
Member
It's not one single problem it is all of them combined. People do change overtime but a progress (arc) got to be there and I don think they did a good job in the game to present the growth of her new personality post FFX.
Also, (default)outfit is a major part of character design. Otherwise why do people criticize Biniki armor and the like? conservative character (that include X-2 Yuna) is not likely to wear something that revealing, and combined with the upskirt shots of the camera... You get the idea.
charlequin
Banned
Again, though, what are the actual changes that are so severe here? She starts out the game resisting Rikku's attempts to make her have fun and overly deferent to other people's needs. The plot beats are specifically about her shaking out of that through her experiences travelling Spira with the Gullwings. The character arc is pretty heavily showcased in the game, she doesn't start with any serious personality change at all.
Honestly, I think a lot of people see the first half of the opening cutscene, assume the person performing the pop concert at the beginning is actually Yuna, and then read that as this "huge" "personality change" without actually going through to see how the real Yuna is actually presented when she shows up.
You're wasting your time. Nobody who argues against Yuna actually has any factual evidence about this supposed 180. It's all "my opinion" bullshit which is all fine if you can back it up, which the X-2 Yuna haters (aka just X-2 haters) cannot do.
BumblebeeCody
Member
What about the girls who legitmatley enjoy those aspects, Where changing clothes and a message scene isn't sexism.
Also, I like the game.
TatteredHat
Member
FFX-2 has the best combat system out of all Final Fantasy games, yeah the tone is very whimsical at times to the point of almost being a slice of life but don't hate.
Plus the title screen theme and its vocal version are fantastic.
Plus the title screen theme and its vocal version are fantastic.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Fuck, even watching the cutscene they should know it's not Yuna due to the ? that pops.
I don't know why you'd assume I'm being sarcastic when I've already made several posts in this thread defending the game.
The voice acting in X-2 is quite a bit better than the voice acting in X.
And that wasn't Yuna dancing.
He's probably referring to the dressphere making Yuna do a jig.
witchedwiz
Member
imho:
story --> thanks, but no thanks
battle system --> one of the best iterations of atb
story --> thanks, but no thanks
battle system --> one of the best iterations of atb
You're probably right. That's a weird thing to get annoyed about, though.
Teletraan1
Banned
I really love this game because at the end of the day I spend more time battling than listening to story bits and can tune all of it out if it is not something I find really interesting or really resonates with me. I personally never play Final Fantasy or most JRPGs for their story to be honest. I am more interested in the gameplay systems given to the player. I found this game to have the best and most to my liking version of the ATB mixed with on the fly Job switching. It was basically the pinnacle of what I have wanted out of FF from a gameplay perspective. It is also the reason I am so salty about the products they have offered since with imo lesser realized battle systems that rely more on automation and less player interaction for your "party". I am really starting to wonder why we have parties at all from a purely gameplay perspective if you only allow me to have full control of one character.
Not that I should defend an opinion, but - I never said it was impossible for people to change. I never said reserved people can become more outgoing. I never said a religious household could dress up in revealing outfits. I was talking about Yuna and how she came across in FFX (the comment of being a child of Lord Braska was more of an example on why her character in X is believable). Yuna the character. And Yuna the characters change from X to X-2 is just too much of a stretch for what I consider believable character growth. Nothing more to it.
Edit: Just realized the tone of my post came off a bit harsh. Just wanted to get across I don't think a religious background would restrict anyone from change.
There's no empirical evidence for an opinion on a character changing too much between a few years to be believable. You only go by how you perceive a character and whether you consider a change too drastic or not. It can't be 'false' (at least in this case).
I'm out of this thread for now, don't want to derail it further.
poodaddy
Gold Member
With all due respect you're now being sexist and stereotyping an entire group of people with the belief that there even is such a thing as "feminine coding" while trying to defend this game as a female focused game. You keep falling back on the argument for "feminine-coded" things but is it not true that your perception of what fits into that category is born out of societal stereotypes of what women "should be" created out of years of a predominantly male run series of media conglomerates who managed to hold something of an intellectual monopoly on what was acceptable feminine behavior until rather recently as feminists are now trying to break away from the concept of "feminine coding" altogether as it's really rather offensive. There is nothing inherently feminine about pop music and dressing up, as there are just as many men who enjoy both of those activities, and the belief of and in such a concept as "feminine coded activities" is really just as, if not more so, sexist and misogynist as any other form of stereotyping of women and it's only redeeming factor, though still extremely misguided, is that the idea of this feminine coding is being used to defend the use of what you perceive as a feminine game being disliked due to its feminine ideals which is, once again, ironic as the very idea of those feminine ideals is actually sexist.
I can respect your opinion, but the implication that dislike of this game is indicative of latent sexism is honestly disingenuous and, although the sentiment is born out of a disdain for sexism, actually sexist as the foundation upon which the sentiment is built is made from antiquated and misogynist views of what constitutes as feminine activities. I realize I may be sacrificing my account by saying this and I hope you understand that I mean no disrespect, but I feel strongly about the issue of stereotyping and hiding behind the issue of feminism, particularly when the ideals being described as "feminine coding" are actually born out of antiquated misogynist stereotypes of females by a patriarchal society.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I think that's actually his point? He took objection with the notion that singing, dancing a dressing up condescending portrayals of women. To begin with, why specifically relate those activities to women at all? Isn't that because they are, conscious or not, perceived as feminine-coded things? Then the question becomes what makes them so shameful that creating a character who does them is perceived as "condescending".
Planeswalker
Neo Member
I'd argue Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross are good counter-examples (both big bads are comparable to Sin as "unknown threats").
The problem I have specifically with FFX is that they made Sin out to be something that has never been defeated before, that they can't find any way to defeat Sin except through using the Final Aeon. The Final Aeon required a sacrifice.
Most of the story (after the reveal) makes it much dramatic until they do the solution of just going for the attack and that's it. They actually win just by charging and attacking Sin.
Not to be negative towards FFX or anything, I'm just defending FFX-2's story in comparison. People who disliked FFX-2 said FFX-2 ruined the FFX story (Steam forums for example) when I'd argue that FFX's story was kind of simple in the first place.
As for the middle to end of the game where Yuna does sing, it's to show spoiler]the stories of Shuyin and Lenne[/spoiler] due to a divided Spira.
The point was, she sang that song because Spira currently was being divided. Showing what
Lenne wanted to tell Shuyin
As for Yuna's personality, she didn't really get to show her true personality or her true self in FFX. In FFX-2, since they defeated Sin, now she can show more of personality.
Finally, Yuna's quest (and success) to bring
back Tidus
First, from that post.
Yuna is not the main character in FFX. She is the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_character]focal character[/url].
Tidus is the main character because you are put in his shoes. When Yuna is in trouble, Tidus wants to protect her, and so does the player. You and Tidus share the same set of goals that moves the story forward (Tidus did tag along on Yuna's quest but Tidus in the second half of the game where he convinces Yuna to find an alternative and they join to defeat Sin instead of using the Final Aeon are what makes Tidus the main character).
The only reason why I'm talking about that is because they already made a mistake in their post in that part.
Second, the rest of the wordpress mostly talk about appearances and nothing in the game what-so-ever.
Also this is wrong too
Shinra is a male and grouped with the girls and he's really competent.
Besides that, that wordpress doesn't even talk much about the story. Just talks about how they are dressed. I already detailed in this post and my previous post why the story works and how they did a good job portraying Yuna.
Now for things massage mini game, singing, their fashion choice, etc, is it wrong to say those things are sexist? I mean, if those girls are in to those things, then they are in to those things.
Honestly, I find Yuna a better female character than Lightning because if you gender swap Lightning, the I'd say the portrayal of Lightning wouldn't be good. There's no quality in Lightning that says she is a strong female besides the fact that she is just being aggressive at times and just doing whatever for some reason.
However, Yuna has qualities that provide a positive impact on the story that doesn't put attention to the fact "she is strong female" but instead they went a more subtle route.
If you gender swapped Yuna, she would still be a good character that does what she believes is right. So regardless of gender, Yuna is good.
If you gender swapped Lightning, you'd question some of the decisions she does in XIII's story and argue she was what broke up the group in the first place. Lightning is only a "strong female character" or a "strong character" as a "female" however if she was gender swapped, I'd say she isn't the best leader for the story (I'd argue even other characters did a better job of keeping the group together than Lightning).
Can the only way a female character be considered good is if they act like a guy? I disagree. Besides, the fact that we are dividing things to "guy things" and "girl things" is also something I disagree with. Plenty of guys do the things Yuna do.
Finally, as for sexualization, I'd argue that's not the case. Yes, the girls are wearing some revealing outfits however that alone doesn't make it sexualization. I mean, if you look at Steam comments (because X + X-2 just released on Steam), many people dismissed the game because it is "girly" (exact steam posts and comments on the forums).
I mean, if it's sexualized, I'd argue that it would attempt to be more inviting to males through sexualization.
I'd argue the fact that the game actually puts off males means that it isn't really sexualized.
Planeswalker
Neo Member
(Edit - Sorry for double post.)
Oh come on. It would have been amazing. AMAZING for all of the wrong reasons.
There was a script??
Also what are y'alls favorite dresspheres? The mascot ones are pretty amazing, but I liked Samurai, Gunner, Gun Mage (pretty OP), Lady Luck, Trainer, and both of the International ones were cool. Black Mage was hardcore gimped though, only had access to the elemental spells.
All you need is alchemist.
charlequin
Banned
I might not be conveying the deal with "gender coding" here. The concept is that in society, certain things are stereotyped as inherently and exclusively feminine -- that's the "coding" part -- which then leads men who want to establish how masculine they are to put those things down and call them inferior. The behavior pattern is pretty familiar, from a boy saying dolls are bad because they're "girly" on up to ads for shit like deodorant that need to throw random explosions and shouting in to prove it's not too womanish to not have stank pits.
That's the thing: it's not a problem for individual women to be into fashion or pop music or knitting; it's not a problem to observe that there are many women who are in fact into these things; it's only a problem when people treat these things as inherently shitty or embarrassing, and that was (unfortunately) the reaction from many, though by no means all, of the people who hated on X-2 at its release.
I meant like in terms of abilities and aesthetics. Although actually I don't think I even used Alchemist at all in my original playthrough.
poodaddy
Gold Member
Ohhhh my mistake, I completely misinterpreted your statement and for that I apologize. Now I realize I essentially echoed you unwittingly. Sorry about that.
I see your point and I guess I can concede that there probably was, and perhaps still is, a lot of subliminal sexism going on around the release date and that it certainly would of negatively influenced the reception of the game. I don't care for the game, and I know it has nothing to do with sexism in my case, but I shouldn't project my feelings on the subject towards others with the silly
, asinine really
Baloonatic
Member
I mostly just found it boring. I tried replaying it with the HD version but didn't get too far. The pacing just felt really off to me. I also really hate the battle theme and a lot of the original music didn't really do it for me.
Dresspheres were cool and the more lighthearted approach was refreshing after X. I at least finished it once as a kid even though that might have been because I didn't want to feel like I had completely wasted my money.
Dresspheres were cool and the more lighthearted approach was refreshing after X. I at least finished it once as a kid even though that might have been because I didn't want to feel like I had completely wasted my money.
I actually enjoyed FF X-2 more than X. Fight me.
I really should return to it one of these days. I think my game got corrupted during one mission; I had to talk to some NPC while chasing around someone, but the NPC floated in mid-air and drifted off into the air. Didn't matter how many times I reloaded my savefile, but the NPC never reappeared. Sigh.
Anyway, I thought the game was quite fun in terms of combat. VA's weren't as cringeworthy as in X.
I really should return to it one of these days. I think my game got corrupted during one mission; I had to talk to some NPC while chasing around someone, but the NPC floated in mid-air and drifted off into the air. Didn't matter how many times I reloaded my savefile, but the NPC never reappeared. Sigh.
Anyway, I thought the game was quite fun in terms of combat. VA's weren't as cringeworthy as in X.
The problem with the dresspheres is that some are only good until you find something better, and others are trash until you give them a very large investment, or even max them out, which if you're like me is the point you'll stop using them unless at a boss fight anyway.
My favorites are...
Gun Mage: The best all around early to mid game IMO. Extremely versatile and infinitely sustainable. I had it on every single GG if for nothing more than a simple swap to use Drain. Healing Wind trivializes a lot of otherwise tough encounters and Storm Cannon/Mortar will annihilate everything up until the hard optional content. Also has my favorite overall costumes in the game.
Dark Knight: Ridiculous HP and STR, on top of Darkness completely ignoring defensive buffs. This is considered to be top 3 by almost everybody. You can just turn your brain off and spam Darkness in almost every fight in the game. There are many bosses that I turtled with Gun Mage/Alc/DK with zero problems.
Psychic: Wasn't in the original US release, so I had no nostalgia for it. It instantly became a favorite of mine though. Good for unaspected damage against enemies that absorb all elements. It lacks the raw damage output of some other jobs, but still is above average, especially against groups. What makes this job really broken, however is its defenses. Auto Tetra(minus Holy) eater, early Haste/Evasion/Accuracy buff, which is HUGE, a teleport to the other side of an enemy, making AoEs only hit one side, like in old FF ambushes. Also, the ability to nullify a physical or magical attack, or BOTH at the same time. That's right, you can guarantee 0 damage from almost any attack in the game. Oh and the 2nd highest overall stats behind Mascot.
Berserker: Takes a large investment to really unlock its potential. Evade and Counter, Magic Counter and Counterattack combined with Force of Nature can kill almost every enemy/boss in the game while turtling. That's a large part of how I 1 shot Trema and Chac.
Mascot is super broken so I won't even go into that here. I think Alchemist is the most overrated job in the game, as for it to be really good, you have to use the Item command. Stash is EXTREMELY slow, making it hard against fast enemies and Mega Potion only heals 2000 in the same time another job could heal twice. It's good, just not in endgame IMO(Moogle Cureja/Regenja).
I'm pretty sure I wrote like a thousand words earlier in the thread on this subject
Okay I wouldn't go as far as to say that I found those 'feminine' aspects shitty or embarrassing. I just didn't think they were interesting and in fact thought they were off putting. You can compare it to the Twilight craze a while back. Both my sisters were big fans of the book series. As someone who reads a lot of books I decided to read them all, out of curiosity more than anything else. Personally I didn't like them. I didn't think they were well written and the content did nothing for me.
You could say with both FFX-2 and Twilight my reactions and responses might be expected considering I'm male. But is that bad thing though? Not everyone has the same interests and buy trying to appeal to some people you might alienate others. Ultimately you can't please everyone at the same time. It's not that I'm against female orientated stuff. I'm actually quite pro feminism to a degree, but just because I am for more female representation and equality (not limited to games), it doesn't mean I'm interested in all aspects of what may seem making things more appealing to females. The so called dress up and pop music elements just happen to be parts of so called female identity that I'm not a fan of.
The reverse is true as well though. Despite being male, I'm not a fan what people may identify as the other extreme such as machismo, chest beating bravado, ego boosting, lad culture and senseless male pride. A lot of games like Gears of War, Call of Duty and the so called Dudebro stuff I find just as (if not moreso) off putting than the female stuff in FFX-2.
Does that make me against male defined aspects on top of supposedly against the female stuff from earlier as well? Where does that leave me if I'm against overt masculinity and femininity? Do peoples reason for not liking a game have to do with their general social issues and subliminal sexism? Can they just simply not like a game because they don't like it?
Of course
But thats not how much, maybe even the majority, of dislike for the game is framed.
Okay say people disliked the game because the felt the supposed feminine characteristics were too strong for their liking. So what? Should they feel forced to enjoy something when there are aspects of the game they don't like?
Well, I think they may want to examine where their dislike of those things is coming from, but no, thats a perfectly fine reason to dislike something.
Its NOT however, a good reason to scream about how the game is horrible and it ruined final fantasy and anyone who likes it is an obvious creep and terrible person. (All things that have been said, in this thread, about the game).
I'm not a big fan of heavily masculine, violent shooty stuff, in general. So...I don't play those games. I don't make threads about how terrible those games are, and I don't tell people who like them that they are horrible people.
Its not the liking/disliking that is the issue, its people's inability to handle others liking/disliking things in ways they don't approve of. This thread, as started by the OP, is basically 1 step away from trolling, and certainly didn't convey anything that actually needed to be said.
"But, the OP wanted to know why people liked the game! He was curious because he disliked it!" you say. Well, the OP post is basically him mocking the game and basically saying he could never understand why people liked it. (he also only played 40 minutes, which does that even get you gameplay? Its been so long I don't remember, but in some FFs it definitely doesn't) But then throughout the thread he ignores people who say they like it, he argues that people's explanations for why they liked it can't be true, and just in general shows no interest in actually having his opinion changed.
And if you aren't interested in having your opinion changed, or at least aren't open to the possibility, don't make a thread for it. its pointless and just makes people mad. (this applies to a lot of threads on GAF, and of course on messageboards throughout the interent. This is nothing new. I've been on various messageboards for over 15 years, and I know how this goes. Acting like this is something shocking and beyond the pale doesn't fool anyone.)
Anyway, what the OP wanted wasn't to find out why people liked the game, he wanted to mock people who liked the game, and have his opinion that the game was shitty and girly validated by others. And many posters went right ahead and did just that. They confirmed for each other that they weren't bad for not liking girly things, and reestablished their manhood credits.
I've seen this dozens and dozens of times, this isn't new. This has been happening literally since before the game even came out, well over a decade ago.
Do you want to know what the reactions were when the first key visual was released? I bet you can imagine. Its not hard.
And then the game came out, and the reactions were, well, exactly what we've seen.
I don't care if you like the game or not, but if you're gonna come out and publicly announce yourself to be a jackass over it, don't be surprised when you get pushback.
You know you could like... try the game? And not live under the judgement of your masculinity-obsessed brother?