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LTTP: Fullmetal Alchemist (Manga)

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I remember reading somewhere that Arakawa did clarify that Mustang and Hawkeye never went anywhere after the series because the military doesn't allow that. Feels bad, man.
 
I remember reading somewhere that Arakawa did clarify that Mustang and Hawkeye never went anywhere after the series because the military doesn't allow that. Feels bad, man.

It's not that it didn't go anywhere. It's that she couldn't marry them.

Exact quote (translated):

Arakawa said:
"I cannot marry them because the military regulations would make it impossible for them to remain commander and subordinate."

Makes sense. :)
 
Love love love it. Amazing ride, it's such a shame that it ended, pretty much the most coherent shonen ever made. And as much as I like bad endings, this was one of the few cases where I really felt a happy ending was well earned by the characters.

I liked how Arakawa apparently had the story plotted out the whole time, too. I know a lot of people hated it when the details of Homunculus' plan was finally revealed, but I noticed while watching Brotherhood that it was hinted at much earlier in the story. It kind of blew my mind that she had it planned that far in advance.

The biggest one is that central is one huge transmutation circle and the laboratories were the points that marked it. Which was already set up for back in the early Lab 5 arc with a little inconspicuous remark that the tunnels below central were circular. Daaaaaaamn.
 
The biggest one is that central is one huge transmutation circle and the laboratories were the points that marked it. Which was already set up for back in the early Lab 5 arc with a little inconspicuous remark that the tunnels below central were circular. Daaaaaaamn.

And when Ed, Ling, and Envy are in Gluttony's stomach. Ed sees the rest of the carving from the Xerxes ruins and says that says that it talks about bringing God to Earth and becoming a perfect being.
 
Everything up to right after the final Roy/Envy fight is incredible, and after that moment, it is just okay. Hated the final, final battle. Most of the villains were somewhat one-dimensional in this version. The first anime tried to elevate the material beyond shounen....and did a masterful job of it. But FOR shounen, this is probably the best shounen has to offer.
 
Also, Mustang is essentially a war-tempered, adult version of Ed, though centered on coalition building and political change rather than scholarly pursuits. He's a naive, hot-headed, idealistic genius trying to make the impossible possible.

Yep and that's probably why he's my favorite character overall.

As for him and Hawkeye, true the military regs would get in the way of a proper marriage but then again, they have relationship that's deeper than anything a marriage would signify.
 
Everything up to right after the final Roy/Envy fight is incredible, and after that moment, it is just okay. Hated the final, final battle.

It's not about the finale, but the journey to get to that point.

But god damn did I shed a tear for Hohenheim


PS: You're wrong. :)
 
It's not about the finale, but the journey to get to that point.

But god damn did I shed a tear for Hohenheim


PS: You're wrong. :)

Sure, setting up serious shit like
slitting Hawkeye's throat or absorbing the entirety of Amestris
only for it to be undone within a chapter of each....that's fabulous. Perfect Father
having his ass handed to him on a silver platter instead of being a legitimate threat
. Wonderful.

Making transparent just how one-dimensional the homunculi are in the talk between Pride and Ed.....still the fight between Scar and Bradley was great.
 
Sure, setting up serious shit like
slitting Hawkeye's throat or absorbing the entirety of Amestris
only for it to be undone within a chapter of each....that's fabulous. Perfect Father
having his ass handed to him on a silver platter instead of being a legitimate threat
. Wonderful.

Making transparent just how one-dimensional the homunculi are in the talk between Pride and Ed.....still the fight between Scar and Bradley was great.

Actually, what happened with Father was that
His body was softened by Greed, and shattered by Ed, causing the remaining souls within him to escape.

Plus, keep in mind that neither Father nor Hohenheim are fighters. They don't even really have any fighting experience.

The only reason they were able to take on Father was because he sucked at fighting, was focussed on trying to maintain control over Truth, and didn't have time to figure out how to better harness Truth's powers. All he could do was condense and release energy, but without any purpose or plan behind his attacks. In time, he'd have figured out how to conjure up storms at will.
 
I actually prefer the original anime series. I've also read the Manga, but it failed to grab me in the same way that the anime did. I just didn't enjoy the direction the story took after it diverged from the anime.
 
Yep and that's probably why he's my favorite character overall.

As for him and Hawkeye, true the military regs would get in the way of a proper marriage but then again, they have relationship that's deeper than anything a marriage would signify.

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. Is there some kind of secret super-marriage I don't know about?
 
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. Is there some kind of secret super-marriage I don't know about?

They don't need a marriage to know that they love each other and will be there to support each other for the rest of their lives.
 
They don't need a marriage to know that they love each other and will be there to support each other for the rest of their lives.

Why did Hawkeye need to stay in the Military anyways? Why didn't she just resign?
 
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. Is there some kind of secret super-marriage I don't know about?

Lol, was eating when writing that, so my thoughts were all over the place. :P

But I meant to say that they're practically married to one another but not in the traditional sense.

She's the only one who kept him on his path, aside from Maes, as well as talked sense into him during the Envy beatdown. So they're kinda stuck with each other, for better and for worse.

...Oh and they have a dog, that's got to mean something too.
 
Why did Hawkeye need to stay in the Military anyways? Why didn't she just resign?

.. Did you skip the part where Hawkweye and Mustang come across young Ed and Al at Winry's place?

Hawkeye's in the military because she wants to protect Mustang. That's why she joined in the first place, because she believed in Mustang's ideals and wanted to be there for him. It's implied that they've had a thing going on since Mustang studied alchemy under her father.
 
.. Did you skip the part where Hawkweye and Mustang come across young Ed and Al at Winry's place?

Hawkeye's in the military because she wants to protect Mustang.

I didn't skip any of it. It ended like three years ago, so no, I don't remember each and every detail. I was more referring to the fact that at the end Mustang was like a General, so I'm not sure what her particular reasoning is to continue being in the military.
 
I didn't skip any of it. It ended like three years ago, so no, I don't remember each and every detail. I was more referring to the fact that at the end Mustang was like a General, so I'm not sure what her particular reasoning is to continue being in the military.

Because she wants to be there while he helps rebuild Amestris. She's his right-hand man...and has to keep him out of trouble. :P
 
I didn't skip any of it. It ended like three years ago, so no, I don't remember each and every detail. I was more referring to the fact that at the end Mustang was like a General, so I'm not sure what her particular reasoning is to continue being in the military.

Both she and Mustang are working to rebuild Ishval. He was the Hero of Ishval (Or the Demon of Ishval if you were an ishvalan) who killed more people in combat than anyone else in Amestris (along with Kimblee, IIRC), and there was not a single casualty in his unit.

And she was the woman with the Hawk's Eye, the greatest sniper in the military, who picked off Ishvalans one by one. She's also dedicated to being Mustang's right-hand, always watching his back, supporting him, and never letting him stray from his path.

As long as there's work to do to rebuild Ishval and to transform the political process of Amestris (it's still a military state even at the end of FMA), neither she nor Mustang can rest.
 
I still don't get why Father just stands around the entire final fight. Makes no attempt to kill all the grunts shooting at him. The last arc definitely would have benefited from Ed and Al needing to rescue Hohenheim, rather than having him just stand up and immediately reverse the previous chapter. Plot-wise everything fits together and it doesn't waste characters, but as far as the action goes, everything aside from Father's giant explosion felt way too easy.
 
Actually, what happened with Father was that
His body was softened by Greed, and shattered by Ed, causing the remaining souls within him to escape.

Plus, keep in mind that neither Father nor Hohenheim are fighters. They don't even really have any fighting experience.

The only reason they were able to take on Father was because he sucked at fighting, was focused on trying to maintain control over Truth, and didn't have time to figure out how to better harness Truth's powers. All he could do was condense and release energy, but without any purpose or plan behind his attacks. In time, he'd have figured out how to conjure up storms at will.

While a good explanation,
bringing god powers into the equation makes things very very difficult. I'm guessing what you mean is that he had to learn the powers he was gaining, the same way you have to learn alchemy. But when it comes to absorbing god, it's hard for me to believe that ultimate knowledge doesn't come with that. That was kind of...the point? And Father wasn't prepared for any of this at all in the centuries he took to put this all together? The being who took control of a country, government, millions of lives, military, war, genocides, etc. wasn't prepared to handle the fulfillment of his ultimate goal? Even if that's the point....I don't like it at all. My problem lies more with the fact that they were able to defeat him in a physical way, because shounen, when the far better and meaningful way would have been to defeat him in a symbolic way. There are a million ways that could have been done.

Doesn't ruin the manga at all, but I found it disappointing.
 
While a good explanation,
bringing god powers into the equation makes things very very difficult. I'm guessing what you mean is that he had to learn the powers he was gaining, the same way you have to learn alchemy. But when it comes to absorbing god, it's hard for me to believe that ultimate knowledge doesn't come with that. That was kind of...the point? And Father wasn't prepared for any of this at all in the centuries he took to put this all together? The being who took control of a country, government, millions of lives, military, war, genocides, etc. wasn't prepared to handle the fulfillment of his ultimate goal? Even if that's the point....I don't like it at all. My problem lies more with the fact that they were able to defeat him in a physical way, because shounen, when the far better and meaningful way would have been to defeat him in a symbolic way. There are a million ways that could have been done.

Doesn't ruin the manga at all, but I found it disappointing.

Knowledge and application of said knowledge are entirely different things. The same way you could look up and find out how to make a complex meal, even if you memorized the directions exactly, you wouldn't be able to do it with the same efficiency and ease that an experienced chef that had done it a hundred times could when it comes time to actually doing it. In the case of Father, he was essentially just given the ingredients. He had no idea what the fuck to do with them because there is no instruction manual on being God.

Really, how he was suppose to prepare for godhood? How would anyone prepare for what should basically be unknowable power? What does genocide or politics have to do with something that seems essentially spiritual in nature that you think he should have been ready for it? Father's plan was basically 1. Get God's power 2. Become Perfect 3. ??? 4. Profit. In step 3, I don't think he was sure what exactly would happen, he just assumed that being perfect would give him some kind of enlightenment and that would make his life great. Alternatively, he also basically assumed that once he received God, everything would work out no matter what, which hardly an unreasonable assumption. It almost did and it took the half the military revolting and multiple genius working together to stop him.
 
Knowledge and application of said knowledge are entirely different things. The same way you could look up and find out how to make a complex meal, even if you memorized the directions exactly, you wouldn't be able to do it with the same efficiency and ease that an experienced chef that had done it a hundred times could when it comes time to actually doing it. In the case of Father, he was essentially just given the ingredients. He had no idea what the fuck to do with them because there is no instruction manual on being God.

Really, how he was suppose to prepare for godhood? How would anyone prepare for what should basically be unknowable power? What does genocide or politics have to do with something that seems essentially spiritual in nature that you think he should have been ready for it? Father's plan was basically 1. Get God's power 2. Become Perfect 3. ??? 4. Profit. In step 3, I don't think he was sure what exactly would happen, he just assumed that being perfect would give him some kind of enlightenment and that would make his life great. Alternatively, he also basically assumed that once he received God, everything would work out no matter what, which hardly an unreasonable assumption. It almost did and it took the half the military revolting and multiple genius working together to stop him.

My interpretation was that
the use of the word 'God' was more figurative for an overwhelming power rather than true omnipotence. As such, he was still vulnerable.
 
I actually prefer the original anime series. I've also read the Manga, but it failed to grab me in the same way that the anime did. I just didn't enjoy the direction the story took after it diverged from the anime.

Me too, the story felt pretty weak after it diverged from the original anime plot. Not saying the story wasn't cohesive or anything, it was just uninteresting really.
 
Me too, the story felt pretty weak after it diverged from the original anime plot. Not saying the story wasn't cohesive or anything, it was just uninteresting really.

Yea, I thought the original series had a much more interesting plot. Also the first 20 episodes or so of Brotherhood was covered much better in the original series.

Not to say that I didn't like it though.
 
Yea, I thought the original series had a much more interesting plot. Also the first 20 episodes or so of Brotherhood was covered much better in the original series.

Not to say that I didn't like it though.

14 episodes actually and yes, most people watching FMA: B knows that the previous events were fleshed out in the original series while condensed in Brotherhood. There was no real sense in telling the same story about Liore or what happened to the Elrics prior to the start of the series again.

As for original series itself, I like it but at the same time, I can view it as an alternate telling of the manga/FMA: B.
 
My interpretation was that
the use of the word 'God' was more figurative for an overwhelming power rather than true omnipotence. As such, he was still vulnerable.

I think you're right, but only from Father's perspective. The series definitely has an element of "Things man was not meant to know" going on, with the real God of the series being called Truth and secrets behind the gates being knowledge that almost tear apart the head of alchemists who try to bring people back. So I think true Godhood in the series is omnipotence.

However,
Father misunderstands that and just sees it as true power. He sees being god as being a being without flaws, which is why he creates his homunculi out of his sins....but he's not actually separating himself from them, is he? Even though Greed, Wrath, Pride, and Sloth are outside his body, he still wants overwhelming power for himself, he tries to destroy anyone who is against him, he considers himself to be high above everyone else, and he sits on his ass while his children do all the work. If anything, he's more sinful without them. When Greed was temporarily back in his body, he generously healed Ed and Al (though it did serve his purposes to some extent, he hardly needed to do it).

My interpretation of the character is that him being in the human world has driven him insane. He's an entity from beyond the gate and he doesn't belong in the human world, so he's trying to go back in a subconscious way (he wants to bring 'god' and thus whats beyond the gate of truth to himself), but in his insanity, he's forgotten what 'god' actually is. The same way he thinks he can be 'sinless' while still committing atrocities just because he put his sins in his homunculi, he thinks taking the power of God will let him be God himself.
 
I really have no problem with Brotherhood until people use it as an excuse to rip apart the original anime, at which point I will lay down a fucking hammer on their head. It's hard for Brotherhood to be compared to the original in any sense of fairness when the original anime has some of the best direction, art, cinematography, pacing, and characterization of ANY ANIME....EVER.

Brotherhood gets by adapting one of the greatest, most cohesive manga ever written, but it does a poor job of said adaption, which is really weird considering staff on the original were present on Brotherhood. I can totally respect trying a different tone and take altogether, if said take adapted the manga amazingly in it's own right, but it just...doesn't. Seeing those scenes animated with that badass score was pretty nice, though. I can't say it wasn't.

I think you're right, but only from Father's perspective. The series definitely has an element of "Things man was not meant to know" going on, with the real God of the series being called Truth and secrets behind the gates being knowledge that almost tear apart the head of alchemists who try to bring people back. So I think true Godhood in the series is omnipotence.

However,
Father misunderstands that and just sees it as true power. He sees being god as being a being without flaws, which is why he creates his homunculi out of his sins....but he's not actually separating himself from them, is he? Even though Greed, Wrath, Pride, and Sloth are outside his body, he still wants overwhelming power for himself, he tries to destroy anyone who is against him, he considers himself to be high above everyone else, and he sits on his ass while his children do all the work. If anything, he's more sinful without them. When Greed was temporarily back in his body, he generously healed Ed and Al (though it did serve his purposes to some extent, he hardly needed to do it).

My interpretation of the character is that him being in the human world has driven him insane. He's an entity from beyond the gate and he doesn't belong in the human world, so he's trying to go back in a subconscious way (he wants to bring 'god' and thus whats beyond the gate of truth to himself), but in his insanity, he's forgotten what 'god' actually is. The same way he thinks he can be 'sinless' while still committing atrocities just because he put his sins in his homunculi, he thinks taking the power of God will let him be God himself.

That's a great take on it. Kind of wish they had actually bothered to explore this more in depth.
 
I still don't get why Father just stands around the entire final fight. Makes no attempt to kill all the grunts shooting at him.

By that point, it's taking everything he has just to keep Truth under control. With the loss of souls from the people of Amestris, he didn't have the power he needed to fully control Truth and do whatever he wanted.
 
I've seen Brotherhood which I understand is very similar to the manga, and it was so, so good.

I've also soon the original anime, and I have no idea how anybody could prefer it. The second half on wards, at least.
 
Say what you want about the ending of the original anime: the fact that a canon exists where Edward Elric and Fritz Lang fight Envy together is badass and the most awesome thing to me.

(Furher Bradley's Earth counterpart is Fritz Lang, the filmmaker)
 
My interpretation was that
the use of the word 'God' was more figurative for an overwhelming power rather than true omnipotence. As such, he was still vulnerable.

You are correct. the "correct" religion of the FMA universe is Pantheism, from what we can tell.

Truth isn't an actual deity. Truth is supposed to be an internal god, a reflection of oneself that acts as their negative of sorts, not some independent being. That's why the japanese dub always has truth voiced by whoever it is speaking to at that time.  the funimation dub decides to only do that for Ed's final transmutation, for some reason (probably to give Luci Christian a role in Brotherhood).

You will notice that every person's door has a different design, and every person's Truth looks like them (and has the parts that person sacrificed during human transmutation).

What Father tried to absorb wasn't actually God, but the Truth of the planet. He could make a sun in the palm of his hand, but he couldn't rewrite the laws of the universe. He wasn't a god at the macrocosmic level.
 
Everytime someone mentioned Brotherhood I have the third OP song play in my head:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q1anDhjRoM

I'm still holding out hope for a sequel series about Al's adventures in Xing.

Would definitely watch. He's the only Elric that can still do alchemy, after all. :P Ed's story is already kinda told in the final panel, where you can see he and Winry settled down and had babies. Plus,
I gotta know if Al ends up hooking up with May!
 
The ending of the original series is probably the worst ending of anything of all time.

I like them both.

I appreciated that the first anime tried to do something other than "epic last boss fight and happily ever after" like most animes do. Even the manga/brotherhood basically do this, even though I quite like how they end too.

Honestly I don't really get why the first anime ending gets so much hate. It's pretty interesting in its own way.
 
I like them both.

I appreciated that the first anime tried to do something other than "epic last boss fight and happily ever after" like most animes do. Even the manga/brotherhood basically do this, even though I quite like how they end too.

Honestly I don't really get why the first anime ending gets so much hate. It's pretty interesting in its own way.

m1C1E.gif


This guy knows what's up.

People get super pissed at the ending especially since Edward and Winry don't end up together, even though in the original anime (and the manga too until Arakawa decided to pander to fangirls), she functions as a very important sister figure, a family they always have waiting if they choose to accept that, and a romance makes no thematic sense.
 
I prefer the original series + movie ending. Was such an awesome concept and it was still bittersweet. Brotherhood was very enjoyable but it was very typical anime stuff. Nothing in Brotherhood was memorable like the FMA ending to me.
 
I prefer the original series + movie ending. Was such an awesome concept and it was still bittersweet. Brotherhood was very enjoyable but it was very typical anime stuff. Nothing in Brotherhood was memorable like the FMA ending to me.

Memorable in a bad way. I would gladly take something non-original if it's executed in a good way.
 
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