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LTTP: Indiana Jones & The Temple of Doom
- Thread starter Tizoc
- Start date
You know, I always kind of forget this fact. Now that I think of it, I think it it would have been better if they set it chronologically after Raiders.
If you recall, in Raiders, Indy laughs when Marcus warns him that the Ark may be dangerous and could have power that is better left alone. Indy brushes Marcus off by telling him, "I don't believe in magic, a lot of superstitious hocus-pocus. I'm going after a find of incredible historical significance. You're talking about the boogie-man."
Why would the character that had the experiences shown in Temple of Doom be that incredulous about the supernatural? It doesn't make sense.
Still, I think Temple of Doom is a terrific movie and has the best action sequences in the series. I think only Saving Private Ryan may showcase Spielberg's action chops better.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think the "it's a prequel" thing was arrived at after the fact? I'm not clear on when that decision was made, but I think someone pretty far down the line (during production, even?) realized the Indy in this movie wasnt' really acting much like the Indy in the previous movie, and so they figured the best way around that was to say this happened a year before that one.
Something like that. It could be entirely wrong and misremembered, but I think the "prequel" aspect was kind of a fast patch job on characterization issues.
Something like that. It could be entirely wrong and misremembered, but I think the "prequel" aspect was kind of a fast patch job on characterization issues.
It's not just racist but also sexist. Spielbergs wife has pretty much no lines, all she does is shriek all movie long.
That said, I can't hate on a film that's so different. They definitely did not just straight up sequel Raiders.
But it's the weakest of the three by some mile imo.
That said, I can't hate on a film that's so different. They definitely did not just straight up sequel Raiders.
But it's the weakest of the three by some mile imo.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Kate Capshaw
Fancyarcher
Member
Temple of Doom has some problems (Willie's screaming for example & some of the questionable Indian sterotypes), but it's a roller-coaster of a film, and I never get tired of watching it.
Um, lets see..."it belongs in a museum", the opening with River Phoenix as young Indy, the battle on the boat, Sallah's return, Indy meeting his dad again. I actually remember a lot from Last Crusade.
That point of yours is really just speculation, since there's no way to prove it unless we were able to go an alternate dimension. Har!
Um, lets see..."it belongs in a museum", the opening with River Phoenix as young Indy, the battle on the boat, Sallah's return, Indy meeting his dad again. I actually remember a lot from Last Crusade.
That point of yours is really just speculation, since there's no way to prove it unless we were able to go an alternate dimension. Har!
aside from the racially/sexist insensitive stuff, i cut the movie slack since it was the second in the series. i don't think they were sure what kind of tone "indiana jones" movies would have going forward. then they kind of course corrected with Last Crusade. and then for whatever reason the franchise was more or less retired so it's not like James Bond where you have like 20 movies to compare it to
kind of a historical oddity that's still pretty fun per 80s action/adventure movies
kind of a historical oddity that's still pretty fun per 80s action/adventure movies
Temple of Doom has my favourite score out of all the Indiana Jones films. The bug tunnel scene is a particularly silly highlight. I don't think that scene would work nearly as well as it does without the music. Same goes for the sacrifice scene, and the children escaping, and ... well most of the film really.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
I always thought the dinner scene was written that way because it was supposed to depict a dinner prepared by an evil sect that routinely rips people's hearts out and then sacrifices them to an ancient evil deity by dropping them into lava, rather than it depicting normal Indian food.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, TV is way better now.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
While you might have a point, that scene still only works in that sense because they're Indian.
If they had that dinner at a mansion in the US or a palace in Europe, you'd immediately know that it was bollocks. However, because it's in India viewers go "Well, maybe those weird brown folks do eat monkey brains and live insects"
Rest of the movie still kicks ass.
The best action movie Spielberg has done; the last third of that movie is cinematic perfection.
I agree that the lack of a narrative doesn't make it as good a movie as Raiders or Crusade, but neither of those two come anywhere close to giving you as much suspense and tension as Doom. It's a masterpiece.
Also, Short Round is the second best sidekick after Indy's dad. He's hilarious, has the best moments for a sidekick in the series, and has the best sidekick theme song.
I agree that the lack of a narrative doesn't make it as good a movie as Raiders or Crusade, but neither of those two come anywhere close to giving you as much suspense and tension as Doom. It's a masterpiece.
Also, Short Round is the second best sidekick after Indy's dad. He's hilarious, has the best moments for a sidekick in the series, and has the best sidekick theme song.
Warm Machine
Member
That's kind of what I took away too. Anyone who has ever eaten Indian food would know that isn't on the menu. I don't find the bad guys racist at all. They just happen to be crazy cult East Indians. Obviously the enslaved are meant to portray regular people.
Count Dookkake
Member
The racism and stereotyping claims are way overblown, but lol Nazis.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No they aren't, and what
Count Dookkake
Member
Yeah, they are.
It's just funny to see people get so upset over some mean Indians, but long for more mean Germans.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Please clarify your point. Because "Nazi" = "Mean German" is an... interesting definition to roll with here. Also the whole "dude doesn't get why some people might not be cool with colonialist sterotyping of brown people in popular movie" thing, as well.
And no, it's not "overblown," it's been a thing for north of 30 years now. Overblown suggests small thing, easily ignored/avoidable, likely to have blown over by now. But it hasn't blown over, and as time goes on people are only going to become more aware of how ugly that bullshit is.
But to suggest that somehow there's some hypocritical unfairness going on because people who dislike those stereotypes being perpetuated in the film have no problems with Nazis being turned into cartoon villains and dispatched in a variety of painful ways doesn't make any fuckin sense, man.
I mean, are you really arguing that "Well, if you like mean germans getting their faces melted off I don't know why you have a problem with mean Indians getting eaten by alligators?"
Like, with a straight face?
Count Dookkake
Member
We crying over "overblown" now.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No, we not "crying" about anything. You're trying to write off 30 years of consistent criticism of the film from multiple generations of people as "overblown" and making a shitty case for it by trying to draw a line from "mean germans" (which is, again, a really terrible definition of Nazi) to "mean Indians"
You're trying to put forth an argument where people who recognize and don't really like the obvious racism/colonialism present in the film are being somewhat hypocritical because they don't care as equally about Nazis getting murdered.
So I (not "we") think you could maybe try to explain that a little better, unless I actually got you right the first time.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
It's too racist for me to ever get into, and the Macguffin isn't interesting to me. Gun to my head, I'd rather watch Crystal Skull.
Count Dookkake
Member
Maybe it's because I grew up surrounded by dozens of Indian families, but I can't think of a single racist claim about India or Indians that the film makes in earnest.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
ok
crimzonflame
Member
You didnt ask them if they ate monkey brains?
Skiptastic
Member
I love Temple of Doom. I love it so much. I would objectively say Raiders is better but I personally prefer Temple. Last Crusade is a distant but respectable third.
Elitist1945
Member
The only Indiana Jones I haven't watched more than twice. Its just...I don't know, weird.
3 = 1 > 4 > 2
3 = 1 > 4 > 2
VeryGooster
Banned
Worst thing about Temple of Doom is Kate Capshaw's eighties perm in a movie set in 1935...
...I mean, besides that racist ass and really just godawful dinner scene.
...I mean, besides that racist ass and really just godawful dinner scene.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Didn't realize: All the Indy movies are streaming on Amazon Prime right now.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Last Crusade is the one that feels like a parody IMO. There's no sense of danger or adventure in it, it's just jokes after jokes. And Marcus for example is literally a parody of himself, acting like a bumbling idiot even though he was a completely normal competent guy in the first movie.
HyperZone<3
Member
wherin ole Stevie is quite obviously working through some negative emotions.
Troublesomely racist and sexist, you bet. Still better than the next two Indy flicks, absolutely.
Troublesomely racist and sexist, you bet. Still better than the next two Indy flicks, absolutely.
I cant even get close to finish Crystal Skull a 2nd tine.
Temple of Doom is so much better, i love it.
PhantomZone
Member
My fav Indy movie. Just loved the death scene of the villain.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Annoying side kicks, too gory and too racist.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The worst sidekick is Indy in Last Crusade.
PeskyToaster
Member
smh at people acting like Crusade some classic, I even saw some proper mental cases putting it above Raiders in another thread.
Crusade is the safest, weakest shit you could ever get from an Indy movie, if it was released today everyone would rightfully shit all over it for being so bland.
What can anybody remember from that movie? The "You have chosen poorly" gif, "no ticket" and...actually that's about it.
FOH putting it over Temple.
And to think I felt sorry for you after the Owl.
I quote the last crusade all the time when flying planes in battlefield 1 lol
petran79
Banned
And less risky
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
1=2=3. All are amazing, but in different ways.
2 definitely has the greatest villain though. That shit ain't even debatable.
2 definitely has the greatest villain though. That shit ain't even debatable.
True Savior
Member
Spielberg was just thirsty. Even when she's doing nothing he's obviously enamored by the idea of seeing her in the frame. Dude was probably masturbating watching dailies.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nah, that doesn't pass muster.
SlasherJPC
Banned
I love all the movies for certain bits and some more over others. Though I will say I think I prefer 4 over 2. People love to argue how fake and ridiculous 4 was but 2 takes the cake. Ripping hearts out of live people. Being dropped right above flowing lava and living. Airplane jump to raft and survivng that and the fall on the falls. Jumping minecart tracks. I means its great... but if someone hates 4 for being ridiculous... 2 takes the cake for that. I will say, 2 def does have the best villian. Its the only villian Indiana Jones actually scufffles with If Im remembering right.
supermarioworldE
Banned
The series just got worse and worse with each passing film. I love Temple of Doom, but it's got some serious problems. The portrayals of Indian people and Hinduism are pretty insulting. The tone is all over the place, with junvenile gags in one scene and child slavery/torture in another. Willie is just plain annoying, and the plot is maybe the simplest of the series.
But on the plus side, it is non-stop excitement for much of its running time. No other Indiana Jones film has been as consistently thrilling. There's a fight scene at a club, car chases, shoot outs, mine cart chases, plane escapes in mid air, sword fights, and finally, a battle on a collapsed bridge. Im never bored while watching Temple of Doom. Even the slower parts are rife with either atmosphere or humor.
A beautifully shot film too. Spielberg and Slocombe created some of the most gorgeous and striking imagery of the series with Temple of Doom. It's supposed to be a descent to and a return from hell, and it comes across wonderfully in the final product.
And yeah, I may be one of the few, but I also loved Shortround. Like any good sidekick, he's there for the Hero to protect, while also saving his ass when things go to shit. The chemistry between the actors made a convincing father and son relationship, while the sidekick concept is another nice homage to the older film serials.
A heavily flawed film, but Temple of Doom will always be my favorite for just how fun it is compared to the rest in the series.
But on the plus side, it is non-stop excitement for much of its running time. No other Indiana Jones film has been as consistently thrilling. There's a fight scene at a club, car chases, shoot outs, mine cart chases, plane escapes in mid air, sword fights, and finally, a battle on a collapsed bridge. Im never bored while watching Temple of Doom. Even the slower parts are rife with either atmosphere or humor.
A beautifully shot film too. Spielberg and Slocombe created some of the most gorgeous and striking imagery of the series with Temple of Doom. It's supposed to be a descent to and a return from hell, and it comes across wonderfully in the final product.
And yeah, I may be one of the few, but I also loved Shortround. Like any good sidekick, he's there for the Hero to protect, while also saving his ass when things go to shit. The chemistry between the actors made a convincing father and son relationship, while the sidekick concept is another nice homage to the older film serials.
A heavily flawed film, but Temple of Doom will always be my favorite for just how fun it is compared to the rest in the series.