Ghost is Bad
Banned
you shouldnt play a kojima game for story lol.
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You know a series newcomer probably won't be able to enjoy MGS 1. I loved that game back in the day but i tried to replay it several years ago and yeah, it's something remarkable for it's day but actually playing it now is just not enjoyable.
Opinions i guess.
The thing about MGS games are that they've always been unique games. All previous MGS games had crazy boss fights and crazy set pieces as you mentioned but the gameplay side was always kinda janky and stealth mechanics were not that good compared to games like Splinter Cell or even Thief.
And they all had terrible controls and some very unnecesarry long ass cutscenes filled with anime trophes. MGS V is a modern game and both MGS fans and series newcomers can enjoy it with it's awesome gameplay
GinoFelino
Member
Oh, dear, this OP and MGS Story Defense Force first page. Just go play something else. It's not for you.
Anyone else intrigued by the opinion mayhem that is MGS V: play it! You might love it
Anyone else intrigued by the opinion mayhem that is MGS V: play it! You might love it
There is only one other single bit of gameplay like this for the next 100 hours.
Don't worry.
I also thought it was a pretty shit prologue, as someone who is a giant fan of all MGS games except 4.
Also
You're mixing two things together:
- MGS has a blend of reality and fantasy
- MGS has lots of stupid/immature jokes that sometimes come together to be endearing/funny
The fantasy aspects which surprise you are sort of symbiotic with the series' seriousness. It's high level realism blended with complete sci-fi oddities. Really surreal.
And in terms of 'comedy', MGSV is the least funny one in the whole series. Most of the games have way more gags and in-jokes and stupid conversations.
What? The opening is totally not indicative of the whole experience. So if he disliked the first 30 minutes because it was linear/nonsensical/nonsequiturous – he's going to fucking love the next 50-200 hours because there's very little of that in it.
What really soiled the intro for me was that journalist being all like "essays will be written about the intro", "it's one of the best moments in gaming of all time", "it's yadda yadda yadda"
Then we play it and it's just sort of like a handholdy, well-paced but dull to play Terminator 2 rip-off
GoldenCrow
Member
The story has never been good in MGS and the 5th game is probably the worst (I thought 2 was just as bad), some people love the writing of MGS but it isn't good by standards set by other mediums, I'd say it is on par with average anime aimed at mid teens; has a bit of an angsty tone, a bit of philosophising but on a very basic level that appears to come from movie tropes so if you have any education on the subject then it is painful to endure, lots of fan service, loads of quirky humour, and enough symbolism, visual metaphors and metonymy to keep a conspiracy theorist engaged for life.
It has an unusual vibe. The overall game world and gameplay doesn't take everything too seriously but the characters are often overly serious. I often feel that Kojima was inspired by action movies of the 80's but missed the one liners and overall lighthearted tone of the stories found in them, That in general is a MGS game, if you accept it for what it is it can be highly enjoyable especially the 5th for how good the gameplay is and you aren't forced to sit through hours of cutscenes unlike the other games in the series which was a massive positive for me.
It has an unusual vibe. The overall game world and gameplay doesn't take everything too seriously but the characters are often overly serious. I often feel that Kojima was inspired by action movies of the 80's but missed the one liners and overall lighthearted tone of the stories found in them, That in general is a MGS game, if you accept it for what it is it can be highly enjoyable especially the 5th for how good the gameplay is and you aren't forced to sit through hours of cutscenes unlike the other games in the series which was a massive positive for me.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Amazing game. One of the best action games I've ever played.
I'm not sure what the intro to MGSV was going for. My first mgs was ground zeroes so this was my 2nd but really my first since I knew ground zeroes was more like a demo.
At first I thought wow this looks pretty cool, but then it started to get really really boring, felt like such a slow slog to play through all the slow crawling, etc. The final flaming man horse chase was cool though.
This intro made me think the game would be cinematic as fuck with very less gameplay, but wow was in wrong as that intro was a complete 180 to how the actual game is which is so much good game play. As I played more and more o MGSV , I kept waiting for the next big set piece cinematic, but there really wasn't any lol. While I liked the stealth gameplay of the open workd game, I disliked how mother base management system. I feel I wasted too much time in that menu doing boring micro management.
Felt like kojima wanted to show me me here you want more cinematic in mgs, here take this one intro, that's all you're going to get.
I was pissed at first but in hindsight I'm okay with it cause replaying that damn intro is such a boring pain in the asssssssssssssßssssssss
At first I thought wow this looks pretty cool, but then it started to get really really boring, felt like such a slow slog to play through all the slow crawling, etc. The final flaming man horse chase was cool though.
This intro made me think the game would be cinematic as fuck with very less gameplay, but wow was in wrong as that intro was a complete 180 to how the actual game is which is so much good game play. As I played more and more o MGSV , I kept waiting for the next big set piece cinematic, but there really wasn't any lol. While I liked the stealth gameplay of the open workd game, I disliked how mother base management system. I feel I wasted too much time in that menu doing boring micro management.
Felt like kojima wanted to show me me here you want more cinematic in mgs, here take this one intro, that's all you're going to get.
I was pissed at first but in hindsight I'm okay with it cause replaying that damn intro is such a boring pain in the asssssssssssssßssssssss
Solid Shammy
Banned
I agree that replaying it is boring, but that's the case with any heavily scripted game. But the beginning is deliberately restrictive, so that when the game does actually open up, it hits you hard. When I finally got my freedom, it was damn amazing!
A very well done beginning as far as I'm concerned. The way it contrasts the actual game is obviously deliberate. You're supposed to feel hopeless, anyone criticising it as 'dumb cinematic gaming' isn't looking at the big picture.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
They can easily accomplish that without tons of slow walking and taking away control every 30 seconds.
You should have full control much earlier on, and the game should test your ability to sneak past guards without being able to engage them. Instead, the game handholds you the entire way. The sequence finally stops holding your hand when you finally get the gun, but at that point, you're already at the end of the hospital.
The hospital section feels like a completely different game. It should serve as a nice build up to the mechanics and open world, but it doesn't. So yes, I do find it to be dumb cinematic gaming. There's a much better way to open that game and not make it a long barely interactive cutscene.
The only Metal Gear you need to play:
Ugh, get that out of here.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Which is the cynical view of what the previous games were. The hospital getting destroyed represents the old structure of mainline MGS games getting abandoned in favour of the open gameplay afterwards.
GinoFelino
Member
I get your point, but if stuff that's out of the ordinary/surprising/confusing/tonally inconsistent is a major turnoff for you like it was for OP, Kojima's games are not for you. That's where Kojima shines, even though the gameplay in MGS V may very well be enjoyed by those who dislike the above-mentioned.
Edit: that's a general 'you', not you personally
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
I'm playing this now and I like that this game totally wears it's genre movie influences on it's sleeve complete with John Carpenter-esque soundtrack. It's not afraid to be a big dumb 80s action movie cliche complete with cartoon villains and (of course) Russians.
I follow, and if this was any other MGS game I'd definitely agree - but at least in MGSV you get hours upon hours of non-tonal-shifting gameplay and narrative before little bursts of madness. It's goddamn mundane in comparison with every other MGS game. Like the flaming guy appearing and the whale and wee psycho mantis are all only really over the top and badly introduced in the prologue. They're still ridiculous later on but the context is way, way better directed and better paced.
I think OP is going to have a whale of a time, personally. You can almost forget its an MGS game for most of the experience.
Yeah especially if you go topless, the Naked camo option. It becomes like a proper Rambo simulator.
I played it in the HTC Vive's VR theatre the other day and it was fucking incredible. It was like I was experiencing a playable Predator or Rambo, and it was almost too realistic on a massive screen in front of me. Creeping through the brush, slashing guys' throats, having close-calls - and then when shit hits the fan having a badass intense getaway and barely surviving. So good.
I do wish more of the levels/objectives were like the ones in Ground Zeroes, though.
In the VR Theatre it even gets bumped to like 30FPS so it feels even more 'cinematic' than usual xD
BossLackey
Gold Member
Of ALL the series to start on the last game, you chose Metal Gear?!
GinoFelino
Member
I guess you could. OP was so confused by those bursts of madness that I'd just recommend him to go elsewhere. But you're right, you could choose to ignore most of it.
The sillyness is relatively hidden, yeah, though it's a constant presence if you're aware of it.
Also, 'whale of a time' :')
Jangowuzhere
Banned
I don't really find them comparable. I don't have many complaints about the cutscene heavy openings of previous Metal Gear games. The problems with MGSV's intro are its own and unrelatable to the other games.
The intro of MGS3 and MGS4 are very long, but at least stuff happens. MGSV simply wastes your time. You're not being fed any interesting story or character bits. It's just an over indulgence in presentation.
Thankfully, the rest of the game isn't like that.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Well, the comparison is from one of Kojima's statements in the strategy guide. He also said Venom only being able to crawl and slowly gaining the ability to walk again is symbolic of man learning to walk upright (tying into the whole Sahelanthropus thing) and how the series is evolving past its linear roots. Besides Mission 43, which you can view as a reversal of the prologue with Venom now ascending a building of death where he is the killer as opposed to descending one where he is being hunted, the hospital is the part that's most akin to MGS1-4's structure and heavy emphasis on cinematics interwoven with linear gameplay.
In any case, we seem to be talking about different things. I'm more concerned about it on a conceptual level, whereas your issues are with execution. I'd agree that a lot of the hospital was a bit drawn out and would've benefited from a more brisk pace, but conceptually I still appreciate it.
Solid Shammy
Banned
I'm not going to deny that it's over indulgent, Metal Gear is a franchise made of over indulgence. But the intro has a clear purpose, you slowly gain more control over the character as the level progresses, and it climaxes in total freedom. It was quite therapeutic for me, and many people, to explore Afghanistan in the rescue mission after literally being bed ridden for the initial hour. You can argue if it was too long, over indulgent, or flash over substance in presentation, but it still has a defined purpose, and that is not to just be 'cinematic'.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Skip it.
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
My only complaint about MGSV so far from the perspective of someone that isn't a huge Metal Gear guy is that the FOB management and ancillary stuff seems wedged in and you can tell the suits at Konami wanted some sort of angle to make a microtransaction buck somewhere in there (FOB Insurance). The story stuff is dumb so just watch it like I would a schlock action movie.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
I think he meant from a raw save. Not as in replaying the missions in chronological order from a clear save which would be a different experience having a bunch of stuff unlocked.
Can you actually do that? I don't remember that being possible on my first playthrough.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
You can skip the cutscenes, I think. Even those that are kinda sorta interactive where you can turn your head and such. I actually replayed it recently when the Steam version was discounted, but I still watched the cutscenes ( ≖‿≖
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Finished the first mission, arrived at Mother Base, finished the second mission and was overwhelmed by all the things I can do and upgrade and stuff. Christ, I need time for this, no kind of game for exam time.
Looks good, it seems they solved the open world problem decently by offering mission areas which feels a bit like GZ again.
Looks good, it seems they solved the open world problem decently by offering mission areas which feels a bit like GZ again.
Etrian Oddity
Member
80% of the story being locked behind cassette tapes was a crime. Sutherland and Time Winters' AMAZING performances were so neglected. Seriously.
Sora the Cat
Member
I loved the tapes. Actually prefer this way of telling the story more than the long cutscenes.
I can just listen to the tapes whenever I want to and then go into the world and create my own adventure without having to worry about anything else.
I'm sorry, do you come from the future where there is a better MG game than MGS3? Because currently there is not such a thing.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
Yeah the game actually has a ton of 'story'...
The Youtube 'Movie' version is 9 hours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvqeEYEtXAk
Longer than most of the earlier MGS games combined, and even longer than MGS4. And it's not just tapes either... there's a solid 3+ hours of cutscenes.
I added up the Mother Base cutscenes once and those alone are like 2+ hours too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ3T_fNiixI&list=PLl0TH-2uvrVsFDbasdm5Z2q8uLFH76WdF
I think the reason why it feels like there's less story is because 'cutscenes' don't necisarrily mean story arc....
MGS V is essentially more about 'theme,' and it's cutscenes read more like a few dozen Bloomberg news story from the private military section than a genuine story arc.
Anyhow, back to the cassettes... if you go through MGS 2-4 and genuinely count up how many are codecs, it's not thaaat much different than MGS V.
The real crime is that more casette tapes should have been treated like codecs... I understand why Kojima though letting us listen to them freely during open world gameplay was better but not only do most people not want to do both at the same time, if you did it would ruin half the tapes... especially most of the 'yellow' tapes, some of those were pretty harrowing... they should have been treated like codecs, forced listens where you sit there staring at a black screen listening to
Huey get tortured or Strangelove scream
Etrian Oddity
Member
Oh, I do too; and there's a surreal quality about only getting the audio
like when Zero getting betrayed by Skull Face, or when Zero visits Big Boss to say goodbye.
It's just a damned shame we didn't get cutscenes like they focused on in MGS4 when they had an objectively better voice cast in MGSV.
HueyFreeman
Banned
Did you read his post? He said it's the "only metal gear you need to play." I don't think it's a particularly great game honestly - but my post was about that statement. If you're trying to experience the MGS series, it is fundamentally awful advice. It's a spin off.
<---SPOILER WARNING OP--->
I'd love even more boss fights than were in the game, but for my count
there were 3 pretty different crazy boss fights with Skull Forces (regular, armored, and sniper), a pretty awesome fight with Sahelanthropus IMO rivals any other Metal Gear fight, a fight with Man on Fire, and of course the first encounter with Quiet which is my favorite sniper fight of all time, counting this and any other series.
Also cinematic set pieces...again, I mean personally off the top of my head like 9 come into mind right away, but maybe our definitions differ on what's "cinematic".
I get that concern, however, most of the time I listened to cassettes in the ACC staring at Snake and his 'reaction' to them.
So...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVGINIsLnqU
Adam_Vania
Banned
Entire game is one long streaming cinematic setpiece. The Fox Engine is black magic that sees to that.
The story is pretty great imo. If you got rid of the twist and asked fans to come up w the ultimate HD origin game for Big Boss, it would probably play exactly the same as this: a one-man army working his way across the warfields of Afganistahn and Africa.
Some people say oh that means it's unnecessary. Well playing video games is unnecessary. That's why it's called PLAY and not WORK.
Big Boss's story had already been told MANY TIMES. There was all the backstory hinted throughout the 8-bit games and the first two MGS games. There was the prequel origin story in MGS3 that showed him earning his title and turning his back on the world. There were several portable games further demonstrating his decent into world villainy.
What more is there to tell? Ground Zeroes presented a Big Boss at the nadir of his career, one who has to choke out the people he is saving bc they are scared to death of him, one who's first thought is to suggest they just kill Paz to "silence her before they are compromised".
I
I think the story is pretty deep and rewarding for fans of the previous games, especially MGS3, but for newcomers they may be confused and will not get many references. Which is ok because the gameplay is magnificent. Kojima had to make a story that was both self-contained (for new players) and simultaneously referencing and commenting on a canon stretching over half a dozen other titles. All while having his game chopped into pieces (anyone who says "it isn't finished" is just stating the obvious from before GZ's release). This is an insane feat and I feel like he did a wonderful job.
At the time of release we were blinded by all the negative publicity (FuckKonami making it narratively convenient that the game be bad) and lazy journalism (not taking the time to engage w it in any way beyond a value judgement). It's going to take a few years, probably a couple of long youtube series by film and literature majors, but eventually people will see how brilliant this game is.
The story is pretty great imo. If you got rid of the twist and asked fans to come up w the ultimate HD origin game for Big Boss, it would probably play exactly the same as this: a one-man army working his way across the warfields of Afganistahn and Africa.
Some people say oh that means it's unnecessary. Well playing video games is unnecessary. That's why it's called PLAY and not WORK.
Big Boss's story had already been told MANY TIMES. There was all the backstory hinted throughout the 8-bit games and the first two MGS games. There was the prequel origin story in MGS3 that showed him earning his title and turning his back on the world. There were several portable games further demonstrating his decent into world villainy.
What more is there to tell? Ground Zeroes presented a Big Boss at the nadir of his career, one who has to choke out the people he is saving bc they are scared to death of him, one who's first thought is to suggest they just kill Paz to "silence her before they are compromised".
I
mo Venom is a kind of alternate reality Big Boss, a chance for a do-over, a chance to lower the gun rather than kill The Boss. Hence Quiet's place in the game, the many direct references between her and The Boss, the inversion of her sacrificing herself for Big Boss, etc. Think of the real BB as a 'darkest timeline' and Venom as the possibility of redemption.
Except he is still made of the same genetic material as Big Boss and is doomed for it. Yet where BB could hide his grand schemes in the guise of trying to fulfill some grand vision for the world, Venom seems content to accept the reality of the situation and consider himself a demon. Big Boss's career hinges on maintaining his reputation even in the face of utter disaster. That's what Ground Zeroes was all about.
Venom's journey is one of self-realization. Look at the mirrors -- pretty obvious symbolism. After the chapter 2 switch we see more and more references to 1984. Big Boss is watching you! The enemy could be anywhere. "What if I'm a spy? Or you?" Metal Gear games have always had that twist, right from the first game, and the natural pull towards that deception takes over in chapter 2. Diamond Dogs is rooting out traitors: getting rid of Huey, getting rid of Liquid and the Metal Gear, getting rid of Quiet, they are deconstructing down to the bare essentials.
To unlock the Truth mission -- a realization Venom has triggered by A Quiet Exit -- you have to develop your bond w Quiet to a high enough level. There doesn't seem to be any other way to access Truth without involving this Quiet mission. The killing of the two snakes (Twin Snakes?) is very symbolic here, being the final chronological mission in the story, it is symbolic of the death of the Kojima-led original series.
With Quiet gone (an act she takes on her own free will, a running theme in her character arc) Venom has shed the final layer of his snake skin and is ready to emerge as Big Boss. They even tell him that he has been given an "Anti-Venom" -- perhaps Truth really is something Venom experiences while grappling with the snake venom. The persona of Venom has been a mask he wore the entire game, like the new face he was given, like the face he tried to make from the ashes of Shining Lights, in the end we have a commander wearing the remains of his dead soldiers as a mask. Some kind of commentary on Big Boss, whose legend looms large, yet whose legend is also built on the dead bodies of all those soldiers not named Big Boss.
Except he is still made of the same genetic material as Big Boss and is doomed for it. Yet where BB could hide his grand schemes in the guise of trying to fulfill some grand vision for the world, Venom seems content to accept the reality of the situation and consider himself a demon. Big Boss's career hinges on maintaining his reputation even in the face of utter disaster. That's what Ground Zeroes was all about.
Venom's journey is one of self-realization. Look at the mirrors -- pretty obvious symbolism. After the chapter 2 switch we see more and more references to 1984. Big Boss is watching you! The enemy could be anywhere. "What if I'm a spy? Or you?" Metal Gear games have always had that twist, right from the first game, and the natural pull towards that deception takes over in chapter 2. Diamond Dogs is rooting out traitors: getting rid of Huey, getting rid of Liquid and the Metal Gear, getting rid of Quiet, they are deconstructing down to the bare essentials.
To unlock the Truth mission -- a realization Venom has triggered by A Quiet Exit -- you have to develop your bond w Quiet to a high enough level. There doesn't seem to be any other way to access Truth without involving this Quiet mission. The killing of the two snakes (Twin Snakes?) is very symbolic here, being the final chronological mission in the story, it is symbolic of the death of the Kojima-led original series.
With Quiet gone (an act she takes on her own free will, a running theme in her character arc) Venom has shed the final layer of his snake skin and is ready to emerge as Big Boss. They even tell him that he has been given an "Anti-Venom" -- perhaps Truth really is something Venom experiences while grappling with the snake venom. The persona of Venom has been a mask he wore the entire game, like the new face he was given, like the face he tried to make from the ashes of Shining Lights, in the end we have a commander wearing the remains of his dead soldiers as a mask. Some kind of commentary on Big Boss, whose legend looms large, yet whose legend is also built on the dead bodies of all those soldiers not named Big Boss.
I think the story is pretty deep and rewarding for fans of the previous games, especially MGS3, but for newcomers they may be confused and will not get many references. Which is ok because the gameplay is magnificent. Kojima had to make a story that was both self-contained (for new players) and simultaneously referencing and commenting on a canon stretching over half a dozen other titles. All while having his game chopped into pieces (anyone who says "it isn't finished" is just stating the obvious from before GZ's release). This is an insane feat and I feel like he did a wonderful job.
At the time of release we were blinded by all the negative publicity (FuckKonami making it narratively convenient that the game be bad) and lazy journalism (not taking the time to engage w it in any way beyond a value judgement). It's going to take a few years, probably a couple of long youtube series by film and literature majors, but eventually people will see how brilliant this game is.
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Perfect title thread for this.
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Thabass
Member
I am so happy this fucker is banned. What an idiot.
Bathtub Fart
Banned
I keep wanting to play mgsv because the gameplay. I loved ground zeroes, which I played for free. It was just a cool stealth experience.
I get so quickly turned off by horrible story though. I loved mgs3 snake eater until I met the cat meowing fruit cake and quit when a dude was killing me with swarms of bees. Shit is stupid lol
I get so quickly turned off by horrible story though. I loved mgs3 snake eater until I met the cat meowing fruit cake and quit when a dude was killing me with swarms of bees. Shit is stupid lol
KOMANI
KOMANI
I would take the jump if i were you. The gameplay is more refined than in GZ, and for at least the first 10 missions you’ll be enthralled with its atmosphere. This is coming from someone who prefers GZ over TPP.
Bathtub Fart
Banned
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Insane Metal
Member
Yup sounds like Metal Gear
#Phonepunk#
Banned
#Phonepunk#
Banned
revive one is truly amazing and hilarious. loved the squirrel robot.
MrMatt555
Member
Therein lies the problem