I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Just started this game, fairly good so far. I think I get the gist of the ending thanks to GB goty podcasts but will see it through.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
LTTP: Spec Ops: The Line | Never felt so miserable about myself
- Thread starter R0nn
- Start date
Baconsaurus Rex
Member
It fell a bit flat because I saw most of the twists coming. Still hit a string in certain segments.
It's nice to have a military shooter with colours for once though. The art direction and music were really cool.
The white phosphorus part for example I had already seen that the last group of people were civies.
The part where the thief and soldier were hanging from the billboard and you are given a choice was phenomenal. I disobeyed the orders and opened fire on the snipers but the snipers shot and killed the two hanging men. I sincerely felt bad about that. And then of course at the end they show that it was all just in the protagonists head.
It's nice to have a military shooter with colours for once though. The art direction and music were really cool.
NullPointer
Member
How? Weren't they just fuzzy white blobs?
cj_iwakura
Member
It's a loading screen quote.
Yeah, they were, but they were also crowded up together really close. Not in a way a military force would commonly do. So I already got this hunch when I fired the mortar. Was still surprised though.
It deserves praise from a storytelling perspective for the way it turned the genre on its head. And yes, there are certain scenes that definitely get inside your head. So kudos to both Take 2 and Yager for taking a risk in that regard.
Aside from that though, I thought it was largely forgettable. Gameplay was mediocre, visuals were nothing special and the controls were frustrating as hell at times. Worth a playthrough if you can grab it for short money, but I'm glad I didn't fork over full price for it.
Aside from that though, I thought it was largely forgettable. Gameplay was mediocre, visuals were nothing special and the controls were frustrating as hell at times. Worth a playthrough if you can grab it for short money, but I'm glad I didn't fork over full price for it.
Yeah, I agree with you completely. At first North's voice turned me off, but then later I thought it was more meta-commentary on gaming in general....
Nolan is a voice acting staple in the gaming world, to a degree that it's a internet meme. Using Nolan's voice actor, at the start it seemed exactly what we've come... a breezy, laid back reading that suggested more of a straight action romp. Seeing his performance degrade as you progress, on top of its explicit game-related connotations, is perhaps suggestive of the way gamer's expectations have been turned upside down by that point.
I felt as I played the game 'uncomfortable', in the sense that I pretty much early on recognized where the narrative was going, and for some reason I did seem to pretty well fit into the games thesis about gamers... because I was compelled to keep playing, even though I knew I had the choice to turn it off, because I didn't care. And what does that say about me? Maybe nothing, but it's a question that is slightly uncomfortable.
NullPointer
Member
I dunno, destroyed Dubai and the vivid colors and sandstorms all stuck with me. That and the character models, their ability to emote and their changes over time.
Well, seemed special to me anyway.
Wow, I completely forgot about that. Sorry, I thought I upset for you posting the quote. My bad.
Baconsaurus Rex
Member
Just how they were crowded in a tight space, pretty much ordered to take shelter there by the military forces. Add the fact that you could see that they weren't armed and it was pretty obvious for me. I liked the throwback with the painting at the end though.
Ending spoiler
I chose to shoot the mirror and survive. After that I both went along with the reinforcements and dropped my weapon and I restarted the epilogue and tried fighting and killing them all.
Now, what happens if you shoot yourself in the head? I didn't try that one
Now, what happens if you shoot yourself in the head? I didn't try that one
And I especially loved how fucked up everybody looked by the end. It starts off pretty subtle but damn, at the end. It's been one hell of a week.
Yes, I thought it was a really nice looking game as well. It's one of it's standout features to me. I dunno, maybe you'd need the higher res of the pc version to be able to appreciate all the little details though. There's some nice little touches, like how cloth moves in the wind, as well as all the animations related to the sand.
Explosions were really ugly though.
undrtakr900
Member
Okay thanks, I'll check it out. I just wish I could erase my memory cause that'll be all I think about while playing like when I tried the demo.
If you shoot yourself or let "Konrad" shoot you (if you look in the mirror at Walker he turns the gun on himself), the game ends with Walker lying dead on the floor in front of Konrad's corpse, and Konrad's final message plays again while the camera moves from Walker to show the destruction of Dubai. Caused by you.
Damn, that's still vividly in my head. This was a damn good game. It helps that I haven't played a lot of shooters this gen so the gameplay was alright to me.
nhlducks35
Member
I loved the loading screens in the game
Are you on PS3? If so, don't buy it, just buy PS+ and get it free along with lots of other freebies.
NullPointer
Member
Its more like a modern military take on Gears, in terms of gunplay mechanics and cover. Enemies aren't bullet sponges thankfully, but they make up for that in numbers. Ammo is more scarce than you'd expect, so making your shots count is important. Weapons also have a secondary mode for stuff like zoom, fire modes, silencer, etc.
There's also a paper thin squad command system where you can line up targets to get sniped or grenaded.
So yeah, nothing at all like Max Payne 3 ;P
Dorito Pope
Banned
Spec Ops is really fucking good. I'd even go as far to argue it to be one of the (if not the) best examples of storytelling in a videogame.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Man, I loved this game so much. It's shell shock in video game form.
Yes! Bordering between the misery-inducing and the creepy, they are fantastic.
And if the truth is undeniable... you create your own.
Yes! Bordering between the misery-inducing and the creepy, they are fantastic.
And if the truth is undeniable... you create your own.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Bought on Steam and completed on PC. The ~5GB PS+ version was downloaded yesterday for completists' sake.
Without spoiling them, there are parts of the game where people say there should have been the option to choose your action instead of been forced to do so. I disagree. The story been told requires doing everything in good faith as the protagonist implores you to. There are consequences to what you do and they're very serious considering the circumstances. If you'd rather turn off the game at some point, that's your right to do so. If you continue to play, you will be rewarded for going along for the journey and experiencing the story as it unfolds.
Without spoiling them, there are parts of the game where people say there should have been the option to choose your action instead of been forced to do so. I disagree. The story been told requires doing everything in good faith as the protagonist implores you to. There are consequences to what you do and they're very serious considering the circumstances. If you'd rather turn off the game at some point, that's your right to do so. If you continue to play, you will be rewarded for going along for the journey and experiencing the story as it unfolds.
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
If Lugo was still alive, he would suffer from PTSD. Maybe he is the lucky one?
I want more games like this one. Games that actually get inside your head and tell a good story along the way.
"It takes a strong man to deny what's right in front of him. And if the truth is undeniable, you create your own. The truth, Walker, is that you're here because you wanted to feel like something you're not: A hero. I'm here because you can't accept what you've done. It broke you. You needed someone to blame, so you cast it on me. A dead man. I know the truth is hard to hear Walker, but it's time. You're all that's left and we can't live this lie forever. I'm going to count to five, then I'm pulling the trigger." One of the BEST "speeches" i've heard in a Video Game.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
One of my favorite games in the gen. Not because is really a "good game", but the experience is unique in gaming.
You can shoot to the air and avoid killing them
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Hell yeah. The voice acting gave it a lot of power. I dunno who voiced Konrad, but he and Nolan fucking killed it in this game. Walker's descent into madness begins genuinely frightening at parts and Nolan certainly pulls it off spectacularly up til the very end.
That's what I did and I was relieved that it worked.
Baconsaurus Rex
Member
Same here. I felt really clever and glad that the developers thought of implementing that
So, to clear up some parts of the story for myself,
Walker is basically just Konrad and the actual leader of the 33rd right? So he also killed off the deserters and such. Also, the soldiers in the tower at the end are basically the last soldiers still loyal to Walker. So, how come he starts out at the edge of the city and how did he get Adams and Lugo to tag along with it including that entire story of getting the civilians out etc. Also, why do none of the 33rd deserters seem to recognize him as their previous leader? It seems I'm missing something obvious here. Did he literally make it ALL up, from start to finish? What about the CIA? Did they know Walker was actually insane?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
No. Not at all.
Konrad was a real man. Walker is a separate man. After the White Phosphorous incident and the deserters burned alive, Walker has a psychotic split and begins believing that Konrad is responsible for all the misery and that the White Phosphorous is Konrad's fault, not Walker's. He doesn't realize that Konrad committed suicide weeks ago. The Radioman is running things essentially after Konrad's death.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
What I understand is that Walker is sane until a certain point in the game (when he kills all those innocents?), then he realises he have been the "bad guy" all along and his mind shatters. Then he creates a fake Konrad in his head (the real one is already dead), an scapegoat to avoid any guilt and determines himself to kill him. The more he progresses the more his more primitive intincts surfaces and ends on a killing spree and realizing he basically went insane and killed all those people just to avoid all those guilt feelings.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
The Awesomest
Member
Hey, where's Erik B? He should also be here by now.
EDIT wow!
EDIT wow!
Hell yeah! This was Nolan's best work and the guy who voiced Konrad was Bruce Boxleitner.
Edit: I did not know Christopher Reid did Adam's voice.
NullPointer
Member
Although you can certainly go deeper into the rabbit hole than that, and there are hints that there is much more going on under the surface.
The helicopter scene re-appearing "this isn't right! we did this already!" is the first clue.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Yup, this is what happened. Pretty much.
He couldn't handle what he had done.
Very true. But honestly, I'm not a huge fan of that interpretation.
Purgatory loops are terrifying though when you think about it.
Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa-q-ztyZZw
100% necessary post analysis for those who have completed Spec Ops: The Line, all are must watch, read, and listen:
1. Errant Signal: SO:TL by Campster
2. Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Shooter
Spec Ops: The Line and why we play violent shooter games
By Tom Bissell
3. Penny Arcade Extra Credits - SO:TL
4. Killing Is Harmless: A Critical Reading of Spec Ops: The Line
by Brendan Keogh
5. GameSpot GamePlay Special Edition Spoilercast: Spec Ops: The Line interview with lead writer Walt Williams
6. Don't Be a Hero: The Full Story Behind SO:TL By Russ Pitts
7. Apocalypse Now
8. Heart of Darkness
9. Posttraumatic stress disorder
10. Zero Punctuation: SO:TL by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw (and #1 of this)
100% necessary post analysis for those who have completed Spec Ops: The Line, all are must watch, read, and listen:
1. Errant Signal: SO:TL by Campster
2. Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Shooter
Spec Ops: The Line and why we play violent shooter games
By Tom Bissell
3. Penny Arcade Extra Credits - SO:TL
4. Killing Is Harmless: A Critical Reading of Spec Ops: The Line
by Brendan Keogh
5. GameSpot GamePlay Special Edition Spoilercast: Spec Ops: The Line interview with lead writer Walt Williams
6. Don't Be a Hero: The Full Story Behind SO:TL By Russ Pitts
7. Apocalypse Now
8. Heart of Darkness
9. Posttraumatic stress disorder
10. Zero Punctuation: SO:TL by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw (and #1 of this)
???
The part where Lugo dies? When the civilians are coming in closer to you, ready to tear you apart, instead of meleeing or shooting them to scare them off, you can simply fire into the air and they'll freak out and scatter.
NullPointer
Member
Wow. Thanks for the links antitrop. Will dig into some of this over the weekend.
I felt the same way. What really broke it for me was that they chose to
funnel you down that white phosphorous path by spawning endless enemies. It was the Call of Duty equivalent of moving up to stop the endless stream of enemies. Except this time the make you commit an action that you didn't want to do. If I wanted to progress and finish the game I purchased, I had to go down this path.
The final moments redeemed the game somewhat but it also highlighted how poorly they handled the pivotal moment in the game.
They gave so many choices in the end but not during that moment?
Also I disagree the whole "you could have stopped playing the rest of the game" line because I paid for the product. If this was free? Fair game. But to tell people the could have played up to that point and stopped is like telling them they could have flushed $60 down the toilet.
Reading some comments here and thinking about it some more, the solution would have been to handle it like in the Call of Duty games. You don't have a choice. The missions starts and away you go. Don't even pretend to give a choice like what they did here.
Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa-q-ztyZZw
100% necessary post analysis for those who have completed Spec Ops: The Line, all are must watch, read, and listen:
1. Errant Signal: SOTL by Campster
2. Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Shooter
Spec Ops: The Line and why we play violent shooter games
By Tom Bissell
3. Penny Arcade Extra Credits - SOTL
4. Killing Is Harmless: A Critical Reading of Spec Ops: The Line
by Brendan Keogh
5. GameSpot GamePlay Special Edition Spoilercast: Spec Ops: The Line interview with lead writer Walt Williams
I appreciate this post, seriously. I'll be reading/watching. But I just want to say... you must REALLY love this game. Never seen someone collect a retrospective series like that before for any game. Really cool dude.
According to the writer himself,
every time the game fades to black, it's a standard transition. Every time the game fades to white, it's in-fact a hallucination. There's a lot of late-game stuff that is just white transitions.
Again, the implication is that the very beginning of the game with the helicopter is the only sequence in which Walker is alive.
Again, the implication is that the very beginning of the game with the helicopter is the only sequence in which Walker is alive.
How generous of them.
I will repost a comment of mine from the last thread:
Spring-Loaded
Member
Something I found a nice touch was one section in a market early on. There are some enemies who aren't aware of your presence yet. I just instinctively shot them and Walker says something like "They were going to shoot us if we didn't shoot first." Then you hear them yelling commands that sound lik eU.S. military stuff. I thought about it at that point, I really didn't know who I was shooting, but I didn't question it at the time.
I waited until I was about to die and I just fired twice randomly.
I waited until I was about to die and I just fired twice randomly.
I killed a man and woman, and it wasn't until shortly after that I figured I could've just shot into the ground/air.
Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa-q-ztyZZw
100% necessary post analysis for those who have completed Spec Ops: The Line, all are must watch, read, and listen:
1. Errant Signal: SO:TL by Campster
2. Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Shooter
Spec Ops: The Line and why we play violent shooter games
By Tom Bissell
3. Penny Arcade Extra Credits - SOTL
4. Killing Is Harmless: A Critical Reading of Spec Ops: The Line
by Brendan Keogh
5. GameSpot GamePlay Special Edition Spoilercast: Spec Ops: The Line interview with lead writer Walt Williams
6. Don't Be a Hero: The Full Story Behind SO:TL By Russ Pitts
7. Apocalypse Now
8. Heart of Darkness
9. Posttraumatic stress disorder
Thanks for this! Watched the first video you linked. Good stuff!
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Yeah of course.
I kinda looked over the part where Konrad was dead in the chair with the gun next to him. And of course, in hindsight it's pretty obvious that Walker's insanity started right after the phosphorous incident. That's the moment when Konrad gets on the radio/in Walker's mind. You really don't notice that though. There's never the impression that Konrad talking is just an illusion of the mind. It's never clearly hinted at by your squad mates. Very subtle, but obvious at the end. I like that.
NullPointer said:
Yes, you certainly could. I also remember some of the weird loading screens you would get
right after dying while going insane. I had one when Adams was seemingly lying on the ground and shot Walker in the face, and another one when Lugo seemingly busted through the door as a heavy near the end. After returning from these loading screens, you first see Walker kind of dazed. Really makes you think about what's actually going on beneath the surface. Regarding the returning opening scene, I clearly noticed a shift in color the second time around. The colors were much more subdued. Also, stingers were suddenly present.