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LttP: The Marvel Cinematic Universe. Please mark any spoilers past where I am.

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Kinsei

Banned
So yeah, before the other day I had not seen a single movie in it (that I knew of, more on that later) . Originally I became interested in it after seeing a trailer for Ant-Man in theaters but one thing lead to another and I ended up shelving my plans to start watching them. Now with the teaser of Doctor Strange sparking my interest in the Marvelverse again I've decided to watch through them all and hopefully enjoy them all. Now my experience with the Marvel Universe is incredibly limited. I've never read any Marvel comics outside of some issues of X-Men as a child and the only movies based on Marvel franchises I've ever seen before this are the X-Men movies by Fox, Ghost Rider (The one with Nick Cage), Spider-Man 1 & 2, and a Hulk movie ('03 I think). I'd say almost all of my knowledge of Marvel actually comes from the two Marvel Ultimate Alliance video games.

Now with all of that out of the way it's time to jump into the first movie

Iron Man
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Nine time out of ten I absolutely hate when a story begins in medias res... but this was one of those times I didn't. Before being taken prisoner Stark was such a prick that honestly I don't know if I would have wanted to continue watching without knowing about what happens to him. This also allowed them to start things off with a bang for the kids while being able to flesh out the supporting cast for a while without them getting bored. Good job movie, good job.

Speaking of the supporting cast let's get to them! First up is Pepper Potts (What's with Marvels attachment to alliteration? Pepper Potts, Peter Parker, Reed Richards, Susan Storm, Scott Summers, Bruce Banner, and I'm sure I'll be able to list more once this LttP is finally finished), Stark's assistant. It's clear she's meant to be the stick in the mud in order to contrast with Stark, but I feel like they went too far with it and as a result I didn't really like her. I didn't hate her or want her to die or anything like that but I just could not care less about the romantic tension between her and Stark or when she was in danger. I blame it on her taking out the trash line when she was introduced, it instantly soured me on her character.

During this flashback we also get introduced to our villain in the most unsubtle way ever. Those magazine covers just scream super villain and I can't believe anyone on the Stark Enterprises PR team actually okayed those photos. Of course looking at the movie poster now it's clear it's not supposed to be a secret, but having not seen it before watching the film I legit thought Obadiah's reveal as the villain was meant to be shocking. The funny thing is that despite all of that his transformation into *Googles* Iron Monger (Was this stated anywhere in the movie? If so I missed it) felt completely out of left field. The way he was portrayed throughout the movie made him seem like they type of villain that prefers to have others do his dirty work for him, but then at the end he's picking up cars with children in them fully prepared to kill them. I guess they needed a big bombastic finale but it just kind of fell flat to me for that reason. Outside of that he was a very bland villain but I didn't really mind as this was very clearly the story of Stark becoming Iron Man and War Monger was just there to help further along the transformation.

Honestly I should have saved the villain for last but I wanted to end my thoughts on the side characters on a high note with the best one, James Rhodes. Whenever you have a main character like Tony Stark in fiction far too often i see the ones that call them out on their bullshit painted as total sticks in the mud that have no fun and thankfully they managed to avoid that trope with Rhodes. Honestly I'm having trouble expressing the other things I like about him except that. Why is it always so easy to put criticism into words but not appreciation? I am really looking forward to him getting his own suit in Iron Man 2.

So now let's head back to the present after Stark was kidnapped and... I've seen this before. So yeah, it turns out I've seen part of Iron Man years ago. It was late on a Saturday (like 2 or 3 AM) and I was flicking through channels and I stumbled upon the film part way through and it seemed interesting so I started watching. I ended up falling asleep shortly after he escaped from the terrorists so I never knew I was actually watching Iron Man. Speaking of the escape: Holy shit Yinsen what are you doing? I know that someone will rebut by saying he was suicidal due to the death of his family, but that still makes no sense. It's made abundantly clear that he wants Stark to survive and the best way to go about it was clearly not running towards the people trying to kill you. Had one of them actually realized that Yinsen was an idiot that had no idea what he was doing Stark would have been dead before the suit could boot up. The actual escape after the suit booted up was amazing though. To be honest that suit would make a great outfit for a horror movie villain. Trap some innocent people in some cave (like The Descent) and unleash this thing on the, and it would be amazing.

Now that I've discussed everything else I wanted to let's talk about the titular Iron Man: Tony Stark. First of all I do not buy that he is a playboy, at least not before the kidnapping. He was such a huge asshole that even though he was played by the damn near flawless RDJ there's no way I would want to fuck him and I don't know anyone that would either. Seriously what is it with fiction and women always falling for a total asshole? Do people that think the reason women didn't want to sleep with them in high school was because they were nerds still hold a grudge or something? Never mind answering that, I've been on the Internet long enough to know that the answer is indeed yes. Now if we're talking post kidnapping Stark then sure, I totally believe it.

One thing I really enjoyed was the focus on Stark and not Iron Man. Once Stark started working on the Iron Man suit after getting back to America I thought there would be a montage of it being built and then the rest of the movie would mostly be Iron Man fighting the bad guys until the credits rolled. Thankfully I was wrong. By the end of the movie I totally bought that this guy i had hated at the beginning had matured into a hero, both in the suit and out of it.

So overall i really enjoyed Iron Man and I'm looking forward to the next movie in the MCU despite thinking the Hulk makes for an abysmal TV and Movie lead. I'll be watching it this Saturday so expect a write up on Sunday.

One question before I go binge the second season of Kimmy Schmidt: Are the live action TV shows like Daredevil, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, and so on part of the MCU?
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
One question before I go binge the second season of Kimmy Schmidt: Are the live action TV shows like Daredevil, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, and so on part of the MCU?

Yes, but quite frankly, if you're prioritizing the movies they can be struck off.


Daredevil is a must watch in the future though.



Also, expect Rhodes to magically turn into Don Cheadle.


EDIT: Also I'm sure you do know post-credits stuff are a thing? You should also know that they become 2 per film post-Avengers 1
 

MechDX

Member
Peter Parker, Reed Richards, etc.....Stan Lee has said before he chose names starting with the same letter for the first and last names so he could remember them all easier way back in the day
 

Kinsei

Banned
Yes, but quite frankly, if you're prioritizing the movies they can be struck off.


Daredevil is a must watch in the future though.



Also, expect Rhodes to magically turn into Don Cheadle.


EDIT: Also I'm sure you do know post-credits stuff are a thing? You should also know that they become 2 per film post-Avengers 1

I did see the post credits scene, but having almost no knowledge about the Avengers it didn't really leave an impression on me. It was clearly there for existing Marvel fans (which obviously isn't a bad thing) which I'm not so I decided not to mention it.

Thanks for the heads up about the shows and actor change.
 
The next 2 movies will be rough, but after that you'll be in for some great stuff, barring one film that's already been mentioned.

The shows are great, but they don't take place until after the Avengers, so I'd wait. Daredevil and Jessica Jones are great, so at least watch those. Agent Carter is good too. Agents of SHIELD is more varied in quality.
 
Thor 2, Iron man 2.

...are better than The Hulk.

I'd put Iron Man 2 above Hulk, solely because of RDJ and Rockwell, who are very entertaining. They elevate the material, whereas Norton does not. Neither are spectacular though.

Thor 2... I don't know which one I'd give the edge to there, and I'm not sure I'd want to spend the time thinking about it. They're on a similar level though.
 

Poona

Member
Also, expect Rhodes to magically turn into Don Cheadle.

I know nothing about how Rhodes is represented in comics, etc but I am so bummed they went through those issues where the original actor didn't continue the role.

I feel like he did the role well, and even though Don Cheadle has played the role more than Terrence Howard did, everytime I see Don Cheadle in these films it annoys me as I know if things had gone trouble free he wouldn't be there. He doesn't seem to have the on screen presence that Terrence had, but since I've never even referred to how the original comic character is maybe Don Cheadle actually is a better fit.

One question before I go binge the second season of Kimmy Schmidt: Are the live action TV shows like Daredevil, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, and so on part of the MCU?

I don't think you need to place such a high importance on these shows as whilst the rest of the world gets the films, they don't all have access to the TV shows so I think they can be overlooked as nothing of high importance would occur in them that would affect the films.

I do prefer Agent Carter over the others though as it stars a character who pops up quite often in the films.
 

Fandangox

Member
I know nothing about how Rhodes is represented in comics, etc but I am so bummed they went through those issues where the original actor didn't continue the role.

I feel like he did the role well, and even though Don Cheadle has played the role more than Terrence Howard did, everytime I see Don Cheadle in these films it annoys me as I know if things had gone trouble free he wouldn't be there. He doesn't seem to have the on screen presence that Terrence had, but since I've never even referred to how the original comic character is maybe Don Cheadle actually is a better fit.

I initially disliked the change, but it's grown on me. I think he does a good job.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
This should be a fun thread.

Hulk has some interesting moments, but isn't a great movie overall. Iron Man 2 is a tough sit. Thor 1 and Cap 1 are decent enough as they are the ones to set the real groundwork for The Avengers.
 

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
I'm doing a re-watching of the MCU-movies. Looking back you can see how much has evolved and how they found their footing. It's pretty consistant with my memory so far.

  • Iron Man (2008), dir. Jon Favreau - ★★★½
  • The Incredible Hulk (2008), dir. Louis Leterrier - ★★★
  • Iron Man 2 (2010), dir. Jon Favreau - ★★★
 

SpaceWolf

Banned
Sometimes I feel like the only person who legitimately enjoyed The Incredible Hulk.

It had some great scenes, the score was fantastic and Bruce and Betty still remain one of the most well developed, not to mention fun, romantic pairings in the MCU.

99a6fef217363467335244638e1e25ff.gif
 

black070

Member
I can only imagine what it would be like having missed out on the MCU and having to catch up today or at any point going forward. Unless you really have zero interest in the whole thing, it must be such an amazing experience going through each entry for the first time with little interval between.
 

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
That 1/2 star is worth a lot then. But you rock a Persona avatar so I trust you.

I like them both. The first is so tightly spun the first two acts with the mandatory MCU dip in the third act action set-piece. I do like that they keep things focused. It really establishes the technology in a way that no other MCU-movie has since then. I find it entertaining that the face-off is basicly Jobs vs. Balmer.

The second focuses more on he internal conflict of Tony. I like it. I don't think it's as unfocused as people seem to think. It's pretty much just a repeat of the first with higher stakes in terms of structure.
 
It fluctuates. IM3, Guardians, Ant-Man... Civil War.

Haven't seen Civil War, but these are all good yeah.

Ultron was a bit of a disappoint to me but I'm not that high on the first Avengers movie either. I'll glad the Russo Bros are doing Infinity War instead of Whedon.
 

Harmen

Member
Now that I've discussed everything else I wanted to let's talk about the titular Iron Man: Tony Stark. First of all I do not buy that he is a playboy, at least not before the kidnapping. He was such a huge asshole that even though he was played by the damn near flawless RDJ there's no way I would want to fuck him and I don't know anyone that would either. Seriously what is it with fiction and women always falling for a total asshole?

But doesn't that happen in real life as well? I mean, there are definitely rich billionaire playboys acting like asshats out there that some women consider attractive. Be it for their money, for their power, or them actually liking assholes. And for some people sex just isn't such a huge deal. That does, however, not mean all the women in the world would succumb to them, far from it. Nor does the film imply that (for me personally at least). I think the whole billionare bussines celebrity culture, or whatever Tony Stark in IM belongs to, is something most people would not fit in or relate to, actually. The film (and series) aims to depict Tony as a total asshole and he is often rightfully critisised for it.

To make myself clear; I am aware there is a huge amount of problems in the depiction of women in media and I do not deny that at all. I fully support the recent movements wanting to strike a balance. I, however, do not see why this situation in particular is so unbelievable.

Also, without any spoilers, Tony develops a lot troughout the films ;) Team Iron Man in Civil War for sure, screw Cap!

Sometimes I feel like the only person who legitimately enjoyed The Incredible Hulk.

It had some great scenes, the score was fantastic and Bruce and Betty still remain one of the most well developed, not to mention fun, romantic pairings in the MCU.

99a6fef217363467335244638e1e25ff.gif

I liked it, but in light of the whole MCU it feels irrelevant because it doesn't serve as a good origin to the Hulk we eventually get. Cap 1, IM and Thor 1 do a fantastic job at making me root for them in the subsequent films. Hulk does not and is only a fun watch as a decent standalone Hulk film. And because there are many superiour origin films at this point in time, it just feels rather unmemorable.
 

Blues1990

Member

The Captain America movies ('The First Avenger' & 'The Winter Soldier') are my favourites in the MCU line up. I still enjoy re-watching them from time-to-time, and I love the films respective soundtracks.

I was shocked to hear that people hated TFA, some would say it being as bad as 'Thor 2: The Dark World'. Most of the criticisms were due to it being too "old fashioned."

What does that even mean?
 
Sometimes I feel like the only person who legitimately enjoyed The Incredible Hulk.

It had some great scenes, the score was fantastic and Bruce and Betty still remain one of the most well developed, not to mention fun, romantic pairings in the MCU.

99a6fef217363467335244638e1e25ff.gif

I like it a lot. Especially Tim Roth as Blonsky. I think it takes a big dive when Bruce and Betty first find each other, but I think it does a good enough job of picking itself back up for the climax which is a fun little smashfest, but not amazing or anything.

It's worth watching just to get an idea of where Banner is mentally leading into Avengers. It's a pretty big plot point for him and Tony in that movie and I appreciated it more having seeing TIH.

It also now serves to show that
Thaddeus Ross is clearly not working solely for the common good
in Civil War.
 

Fandangox

Member
Also just a heads up, don't go in expecting much from the villains, they are all really bad for most of the movies, a lot of people like Loki, but I thought he was just serviceable enough.
 
Iron Man 1 is my least favorite of the Iron Man movies, but it's an unpopular opinion.

IMO, most of the Phase 1 movies are decent-to-good (haven't seen The Incredible Hulk), while most of the Phase 2 movies are great (haven't seen Thor 2).

You don't have to watch the TV and Netflix series. They're set in the same universe, but they're side-stories that don't affect the movies much so far.
 

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
You don't have to watch the TV and Netflix series. They're set in the same universe, but they're side-stories that don't affect the movies much so far.

Agreed. It's a one-way street, in which shows references events from the films, but not the other way around.

Also OP, if you don't know already, keep watching throughout the entire credits.
 

TheFuzz

Member
The best part of the MCU is the slow-burn of the characters coming together in the same universe. Seeing Avengers for the first time (regardless of the typical retroactive-Gaf opinion on it) is something that no one thought possible. And it gets better from there.

Plus, some of the recent stuff is the best.
 
I'm sure you will have a great time watching these. Seeing The Avengers together, on screen for the very first time was a pretty awesome experience.

There are a few up's and downs in quality but nothing really terrible,I guess it depends how harsh you are with movies really though. While Hulk and Iron-Man 2 (my least favourite) are probably the weakest of the MCU movies, in the grand scheme of movies, they are all enjoyable movies.
 

jph139

Member
Count me among the Incredible Hulk lovers. Probably in my top 5 MCU films. Norton is a fantastic Hulk; he's 100% the broken down, man-on-the-edge Banner that I've always loved. Ruffalo is more mellow, more accepting, which is probably a better fit for the MCU, but it's not the character I want to see in a Hulk film.

Like,
I believe 100% that Norton's Banner would put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger. He's so clearly erratic and emotional, hanging on to any shred of hope. Ruffalo? Not so much.

Also possibly the best MCU romance. But there's not really any competition there -
other than maybe Cap and Peggy?
 

Kinsei

Banned
The Incredible Hulk

I'll be honest with you here, The Hulk (Is the "The" capitalized as part of his name or is it just Hulk?) has never really appealed to me. You'd think he would considering ow much I love giant monster movies but something just never clicked so I didn't have super high expectations going into this one. I am happy to say that the film was better than I thought it would be, it wasn't amazing sure but it was a good time and I'm glad that I saw it.

So we open on a very, very fast origin story for how Bruce became the Hulk. Certain things about various franchises you just know even without seeing them due to how prevalent they are. The murder of Bruce Wayne's parents lead to him becoming Batman, Vader is Luke's father, Spider-Man got powers from a radioactive spider, and so on. Bruce Banner becoming the hulk through gamma radiation is one of those things so blazing through that portion of the story at blistering speed was a great move. I really hope they take cues from this for Spider-Man Homecoming.

I was originally going to save talking about Banner towards the end of this write u like I did with Stark in my Iron Man write up, but so much of what I want to say about this movie revolves around him that it really wouldn't make much sense to save it for the end so let's get into it now.

Right after that brisk opening we jump forward five years and meet up with Bruce hiding out in Brazil and instantly we can see the toll being The Hulk has taken on him (even though I could have done without the cheesy "days without incident" counter). This is a man that almost killed his girlfriend, her father, and, as we learn later in the film, has killed innocent people. I totally got the feeling that if there was another incident where someone got killed he'd wind up killing himself in order to try and protect the world from the beast within. It however makes it all the more strange that after he accidentally cut himself that he'd miss the blood on the soda bottle. Like come on man, it was right there. At least Stan Lee didn't have a cut in his mouth when he drank it... right?

Stan-Lee-is-Playable-in-LEGO-Marvel-Super-Heroes-223405-large.jpeg


Of course this leads the US Army to find out that he is in Brazil because the movie needs a conflict. During the entire chase sequence with Mr. Orange's unit (I can't be the only one that thought of Reservoir Dogs with Mr. Blue and Tim Roth) I really was on the edge of my seat just waiting for the transformation, and oh boy it did not disappoint. The way the scene was shot made it clear that this was no hero, this was a monster.

This leads to one thing I feel like the movie struggled with though, showing the PTSD Banner has due to his rampages as The Hulk. Instead of just showing things we the audience had already seen, why not use it as the chance to show little glimpses at what had happened to him over the 5 year gap from the opening to when we joined him in Brazil instead of having it told to us via exposition? Instead of him only being triggered when he was completely safe like in the motel room, what if he was triggered when he was in danger like the chase at the university? I like the idea of what they were trying to do, but the execution left a lot to be desired.

Since the next section of the movie is when Bruce heads back to the US I guess I should talk about his ex & love interest Betty. I thought I was going to hate her when she ran after Bruce when she caught a glimpse of him in the Pizza place. I absolutely hate the trope of the guy/girl coming back into an ex's life and then the ex drops whoever they are currently seeing so the two of them can get back together. This is of course amplified by the fact that Bruce almost killed her during his first transformation into The Hulk. I ended up not hating it this time thanks to the scene where she gave Bruce the data. At that point it was clear she had always intended to try and help him if they ever met again. The chemistry between Tyler and Norton certainly didn't hurt either. As for my thoughts on her in general outside of the trope? I enjoyed her. She had some great moments both comedic (the asshole gif posted earlier in this thread was a great moment) and serious. For thew serious moments I really loved her Ann/Kong dynamic with The Hulk. Is it a massive cliche? Sure, but I'm a sucker for that stuff.

I'd just like to take this moment to appreciate that the guy Betty was seeing when Bruce came back into her life wasn't a huge asshole. I was totally expecting him to sell out Betty and Bruce to asshole military dad, but he didn't. Good on ya movie.

Sadly I don't have as much positive to say about Blonsky. He's a better villain than Obadiah, but that's really not saying much. I get what they were trying to go for, with the radiation in his blood slowly driving him mad to the point that he's willing to become a monster in order to challenge Hulk one on one, but it just felt way too rushed. If we would have had more scenes devoted to him to show how he was deteriorating mentally it could have been really interesting. The way it's set up now? He just seems like a huge idiot.

HulkMovie2TimRothKick54fXLG.gif


What did you think was going to happen?

I really enjoyed him when he transformed into Abomination though since the fight between him and The Hulk was a lot better than the fight between Iron Man and War Monger. I find it weird that the radiation would transform you based on you personality, but it lead to a nice design that was visually distinct from The Hulk making it easy to make them out during the climax so I'm not complaining.

Speaking of the climax, it was really fun. Seeing The Hulk fight something able to actually take him on like this was a miniature kaiju film got a huge smile out of me. I loved seeing them use their environment to their advantage (police car boxing gloves!) and unlike a shitty action film like Transformers, the action was exciting the whole way through. Asshole military dad was an idiot though. You saw what The Hulk did to the gunship earlier in the movie so what makes you think the chopper can get so close to Abomination without being destroyed?

To finish off the movie we have... Tony Stark? I assumed that it would be Nick Fury searching for The Hulk so this was a nice surprise. The line about Stark always wearing nice suits was clever.

Here are a few thoughts and observations that I have that don't really fit in with anything I posted above.

Lou Ferrigno! Even I know he used to play The Hulk so that was a nice cameo.

Norton%20Anti%20Virus-500x363.jpg


I see what you did there movie.

Did The Hulk have purple pants in the past? I'm going to assume yes based on that scene in the motel.

The World War 2 super soldier program was what made Steve Roger Captain America, correct?

I wish The Hulk would have grabbed a tree and tried to shove it down Abomination's throat like King Kong did to Godzilla.

That sequel tease sucked. I would have actually liked to see a movie where Mr. Blue tries to create a new race of humans using Bruce's blood but it seems like that will never happen.

Closing thoughts: Overall it was a good movie, with some issues holding it back from being great. While I do enjoy Iron Man more, this was not nearly as big of a step down that the thread made it out to be, or maybe I enjoyed it more because the thread lowered my expectations. Either way I had a good time and I suppose that's really all that matters in the end. I do wish there would be a sequel, but that seems incredibly unlikely at this point so I hope I enjoy The Hulk's portrayal in The Avengers.

So up next is Iron Man 2! I'll be watching it on Tuesday and posting a write up on it on Wednesday.
 
Enjoying these write-ups, OP, keep em up.

For someone that's been with the MCU since the beginning, I find it cool when someone is starting it fresh with nothing ruined, I almost get to experience it all over again.
 
I liked Iron Man 2. Because of Tony's character arc and his interactions with his supporting cast. However you think the villains were bad in the first 2, IM2 has the worst villain in the MCU, which is probably why everyone hates this movie.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Hold on OP, you're almost to the first legitimately great one of these (Captain America) and then its all uphill from there (with a few detours)
 

Zero-ELEC

Banned
The Incredible Hulk gets a bad rap, but I think it's pretty great. Looking forward to seeing your impressions of Iron Man 2, OP.
 
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