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LTTP: The Witch. Best horror movie of the last few years.

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Last night I managed to catch The Witch in theaters. Like most critics, I was blown away by the quality of the film. The cinematography and sound were on a completely different level compared to almost all horror films. In fact, I'd call The Witch a serious contender for a Best Cinematography Oscar next year. The acting was phenomenal. I had some trouble with the accents and actually didn't understand a few lines of dialogue, but it wasn't a huge problem.

This was not a fun experience for me at all. In fact, this was one of the least fun theater experiences I've ever had. I found the film unrelentingly bleak and oppressive. From about 20 minutes into the film up to the last 10 minutes or so, I felt a constant sense of dread. Disclaimer: I have a very hard time watching children being put in danger or made to feel frightened or even unhappy, so the film probably had more of an impact on me than it would on people who don't have such a hard time with this. The film has six characters: a Puritan couple and their four children (plus a baby, a dog, and some livestock), so a large percentage of dangerous situations involve child characters. This is tough because, 1) except for the oldest daughter they have no real agency and have done absolutely nothing to deserve the horrible situation they are in, and 2) they are completely helpless, especially the youngest children.

I've seen some reviews calling this a thriller or even a "historical drama with horror elements", which to me is pretty ridiculous. The Witch is a horror film, full stop. About 15 or 20 minutes in, you get one of the most horrifying scenes of the last 20 years outside of the New French Extremism movement. There's the unrelentingly oppressive tone that I mentioned. The score and sound design are horror. The film's shot composition, angles, and editing are pure horror. And if you really immerse yourself in the world of the film, it's terrifying.

To me, the "not a horror movie" criticism just reveals how dumbed-down expectations for the genre have gotten since the 90s. A lot of the audience reviews warn readers that "this is not a traditional horror movie with jump scares." That just saddens me; it's like people saying that certain electronic artists are boring because they don't have "sick bass drops." A true fan of electronica can appreciate Boards of Canada along with Skrillex. The genre has many different avenues of expression.

I consider about 90% of jump scares to be cheap and unearned. They're inserted into the film to create tension that the film's story can't create for itself. The best jump scares, like the monster reveal in The Descent, or the alien's appearance in the ventilation shaft in Alien, are actually the least scary thing in their respective scenes. They accentuate the dread that the scene has built organically. Like the cherry on a Manhattan, they're there to add that last kick of flavor to the bourbon and vermouth, not to be the entire flavor of the drink. Unfortunately, the cheap jump scares have become so pervasive in horror movies that it seems some audience members can't imagine the genre without them. There is something to be said for the rush of adrenaline/endorphins that a movie full of jump scares can create, but this is only one method of creating horror, not the only method or even the most important one.

I had the benefit of a great theater experience for my viewing. The screen and the sound system were both excellent, and the theater was completely silent for the entire film. Some of the negative audience reviews I've read mention theaters with other audience members laughing, talking, or even heckling. This would have destroyed the experience for me. This isn't a movie you can talk through. It requires full immersion to create its effect. You need to be there with the characters, feeling their pain and terror. And you need to be attuned to the video and audio language of horror film. There's nothing so obvious as a bunch of crucifixes on a wall turning upside down, or handprints appearing on a bed. The horror is in the subtle details.

Now, some specific commentary.


I liked the decision to resolve all ambiguity about whether or not there is really a witch in the movie within the first 20 minutes of the film. I've seen some criticism of this decision, because "It's Horror 101 that you don't show your monster", but this to me just betray's the critics limited understanding of horror. One of the greatest sources of tension in a film is when the audience knows something that the characters do not.

In The Witch, we know that there is something unspeakably horrible and evil out there in the woods, but the characters do not know this. Thus when we see our characters venturing out into the woods, we know they are in very real danger.

To me, the scariest part of the film was when Thomasin and Caleb have encountered that yellow-eyed rabbit (very clearly a shapeshifter or a witch's familiar), and Thomasin has been knocked unconscious after her horse panics. Then we see Caleb, completely alone in the woods, and now the horror is real. The camera shots accentuate how helpless he is. The shot of Caleb crawling through a dense thicket of branches conveys a sense of inevitable and impending doom. The moment the film cuts to the shot of the hut in the woods, with Caleb advancing towards it, I was hit with a feeling of despair that I've never felt in a movie before. I knew, without a doubt, that this was it for Caleb. The wooden door in the hut is terrifying because we know something of what lies behind it. But Caleb doesn't know. So he moves step by step towards his own doom, and all we can do is helplessly watch.

The ending was phenomenal. I really liked the part where Black Phillip speaks. Having Thomasin become a witch, thus giving double meaning to the film's title, was a twist I started to suspect was coming about halfway into the film, but it was executed extremely well.

9.5/10. People keep comparing this to The Babadook and It Follows. It was far superior to either of those films.
 
The one film I wanted to see this year, and my local cinema stopped showing it just as I got back from uni. It looks incredible, like a proper horror film.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Yup, agree on all counts.

A major element of horror that this film gets right is, we have to care for the people in the story. It's not effective if you are rooting for some idiot to meet their untimely demise. I was 100% invested in this family, in their Puritan beliefs, in the world they lived in, and especially in how their unraveling comes as much from their own failings as people as from forces outside working against them. It's an area where Eggers' attention to detail paid off, and where the actors ability to own the old English dialect and deliver such strong performances worked together to make the horror elements work so well. The film is horrifying because we're seeing things happen to this family that we really don't want to happen.

It also has what is to date, my favorite manifestation of
the Devil in film. Not some demon with horns. Not a booming, clearly evil force. But a charismatic, whispering tempter, who knows your desires and exactly how to corner you into taking the deal he offers.

I haven't stopped thinking about this film since I saw it.

I was quite encouraged that despite the overall negative audience reactions to the film, it was able to find its audience and have a successful run at the box office.
 
The film is horrifying because we're seeing things happen to this family that we really don't want to happen.

This was the biggest part of it for me.

Incidentally, the youngest boy (Mercy's brother, forget his name) looks almost exactly like my younger brother did when he was 4 or 5 years old, which made it tough to watch. There's a scene early on where the twins are playing, and they have these expressions of childish glee on their faces, and to me that was just incredibly heartbreaking, because you know that any happiness these children have is about to be ended. Even if no physical harm comes to the twins, you just know that these happy moments are never coming back.

Incidentally,
this was one of the few horror films I've seen where I had zero hope that things would turn out well for the characters. I didn't really think about this until just now. In almost every horror movie, I'm hoping that our characters will pull through. In The Witch I somehow knew from the beginning (and I managed to avoid spoilers) that they were all doomed.
 

G.O.O.

Member
One question : outside of this

About 15 or 20 minutes in, you get one of the most horrifying scenes of the last 20 years outside of the New French Extremism movement.
is it a violent movie ?

I'm asking that because of something that was in the trailer and that I found, well, upsetting

the goat giving blood while milked
 
One question : outside of this


is it a violent movie ?

I'm asking that because of something that was in the trailer and that I found, well, upsetting

the goat giving blood while milked

Hmm, I would say

Not really. There are some images like that, but it's pretty low on the violence scale compared to many horror movies. There are a couple of violent scenes in the second half of the film, and a few animals get brutalized.
 

G.O.O.

Member
Hmm, I would say

Not really. There are some images like that, but it's pretty low on the violence scale compared to many horror movies. There are a couple of violent scenes in the second half of the film, and a few animals get brutalized.
Thanks !

It doesn't come out until June here apparently :/
 

Monocle

Member
Nailed it. Fantastic movie. Here's my impressions post from a couple of other threads:

[VAGUE SPOILERS AHEAD—As in, I might address whether or not the supernatural element is a red herring.]

This movie seriously delivered.

Going into The Witch, I was worried about two things. First, that it would have the same lack of substance that so many other horror movies try to compensate for with an overuse of disgusting gore and cheap jump scares. (There's a place for everything, but I don't inherently enjoy that stuff, and it's doubly unpleasant when used as a predictable crutch.) Second, that it would have an unsatisfying story that felt empty and uneventful, save for a handful of intense moments where awful things happen to the characters.

I was seriously delighted to find that my concerns were unfounded. Let me say right now that The Witch delivered in every way I had hoped. This movie establishes a clear context for its story and understandable motivations for its characters, then it never wavers from its course as the threat develops and the family unravels. The Witch exploits its setting and themes to maximum effect with a delicious slow burn, and it respects your investment. Stuff happens! In the third act, I couldn't stop thinking it might end too soon, but nope. The Witch knows exactly where it's going, and it carries on in its well-measured way until it gets there. I'm probably far too hasty in calling this movie perfectly paced from beginning to end after just a single viewing, but I'm going to throw that out there anyway.

The Witch is a film that requires and rewards patience. It doesn't care about fast-forwarding to the good part, because like most great movies, its total effect is greater than the most outrageous climax could be on its own, and that effect is absolutely dependent on a progression of contrasting scenes. 

I can honestly say that The Witch offered every element I look for in a horror film, including but not limited to:

- an absorbing atmosphere
- characters who are believable people, not puppets going through blatantly scripted motions until they toddle into the arms of the reaper
- a mounting sense of dread that builds naturally
- simple, striking imagery that transcends cookie cutter creepiness by meshing with the plot and themes
- no gratuitous gross-out scenes
- no unnecessary gore
- no unearned jump scares
- no cockteases or copouts. (VERY GENERAL SPOILERS)
There's plenty of ambiguity in this story, but when there's weird stuff to be seen, rest assured that you will see it!
- a story of substance that takes the characters on a journey, rather than simply running them through a gauntlet of horrors

Now, let me address the jump scares in this movie, since they've drawn criticism from some posters. I'm going to have to chalk up The Witch's two shock moments,
the witch grabbing the boy's head with her withered hand, and the witch turning and cackling in the shed
, as nods to convention. Overplayed tropes do not need to be avoided completely if they're applied sparingly, at effective moments. It would be uncharitable at best to condemn such a disciplined film for making proper use of tools widely abused by genre chaff. If anything, The Witch demonstrates justified use of jump scares to punctuate fully realized scenes. It's not throwing cheap shocks at the audience to cover up a deficit of substance. 

At this point I want to note that The Witch is an exceptional period piece. To my untrained eye, every detail was accounted for: The dialects (including the speech of the youngest children!), the prayers and pious dialogue, the dwellings and domestic paraphernalia and outfits. I wasn't pulled out of the world by a single element. The performances are spot on too. I believed in that family. Add to that the limited color palette and the haunting soundscapes that shaped the tone at key points, and I was totally immersed in the story's place and time. I felt like I was really witnessing the hardscrabble lives of those severe but very human people.

Puritan life is unsettling enough on its own. The Witch takes the intrinsic harshness and superstitious paranoia of one Puritan family and amplifies it to the extreme. Discord emerges from the family's internal struggles as much as any outside threat, and it's absolutely gripping to watch. This film pulls no punches. Thankfully, the title theme
is addressed head on throughout the story. 

The Witch is a sterling example of purposeful writing and sure direction. It has everything it needs and very little that it could do without. Against my expectations, I walked away completely satisfied. 

One question : outside of this


is it a violent movie ?

I'm asking that because of something that was in the trailer and that I found, well, upsetting

the goat giving blood while milked
Not very much at all. The shocking moments arrive naturally, punctuating scenes after appropriate buildup and furthering the story. There's nothing terribly graphic. The Witch respects its audience.
 
I read so many negative reviews from people who thought it was boring, or just walked out on it. After seeing it on Saturday, you're spot-on. If you have a shitty audience talking/laughing or whatever, it ruins the experience for everyone. But once the movie takes hold of you, it doesn't let go until the end.

What I think I liked about it most of all is how unpredictable it was. Very few horror cliches are used in this movie, and it instead fills you with a sense of constant dread and torment. You don't know what's going to happen to these poor people, and its tremendously intriguing to see what's coming next.

When the movie was over, no one left their seat during the credits except for me. They were stunned at what they just saw, probably unsure of how to process it. This was one of the most fucked up horror films I've seen in a very long time, and I loved it.

My only question is
did they ever show what happened to the twins? I assumed they died or were killed, but they just kind of disappeared once the barn door was found to be broken out of.
 
I saw this over the weekend, and other posters have already laid out the reasons why it's so effective much more eloquently than I can, so I'll just say that I thought it was terrific. Such a well considered and tightly constructed film, and the atmosphere that Eggers builds over the movies runtime is so oppressive and unsettling.

The earnest use of classic folklore/symbols makes the horror of the film feel more primal and mythic, and the imagery sticks with you well after you leave the cinema.
 
My only question is
did they ever show what happened to the twins? I assumed they died or were killed, but they just kind of disappeared once the barn door was found to be broken out of.

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself.

I assume they're sacrificed offscreen.
 
I read so many negative reviews from people who thought it was boring, or just walked out on it. After seeing it on Saturday, you're spot-on. If you have a shitty audience talking/laughing or whatever, it ruins the experience for everyone. But once the movie takes hold of you, it doesn't let go until the end.

I don't get why people do this. I was watching 10 Cloverfield Lane the other week, and a dude in the row behind me kept loudly yawning. The kind of yawn where you're deliberately making that sound. I just wondered why he wouldn't leave if he was so bored. Respect for your fellow audience-members is really important, IMO.
 

Mandelbo

Member
Yep, fantastic film that really stuck with me. The scene where
you see the witch running into the woods with the baby, and the horrible things that follow, was some of the most abject horror that I've felt in a cinema.
You're certainly right when you say that when there are weird things, the film doesn't hold back when showing you them.
 
Well it didn't effect me nearly as much as some of you but I recognize it as a well made film, one of the most well made horror films in............quite a damn while.(All I can think of is The Shining but damn i must be forgetting something)
 

Monocle

Member
Amazing movie, I still think about it and how effective it is.
Same. I need to see it again. The
Black Phillip
scene was perfect. But then I have to ask myself, why single it out from the wonderful final act? And for that matter, why single out the final act from the rest of the movie?

Great, great film.
 

Camwi

Member
I'm excited to watch the movie, but I'm the same way when it comes to bad shit happening to kids. I saw the baby disappearing scene from the trailer and wondered if I'd be able to handle the film. :/
 

Monocle

Member
I'm excited to watch the movie, but I'm the same way when it comes to bad shit happening to kids. I saw the baby disappearing scene from the trailer and wondered if I'd be able to handle the film. :/
If it helps, that element isn't overplayed. That said, it's not underplayed either.
 

mantidor

Member
Well it didn't effect me nearly as much as some of you but I recognize it as a well made film, one of the most well made horror films in............quite a damn while.(All I can think of is The Shining but damn i must be forgetting something)

I think it probably goes that far, like, when was the last horror movie that had basically zero exposition as this one?
 
Yeah it's amazing. Definitely the best movie I've seen this year so far. It would fit right in with 60-70's Polanski style horror that I love so much.

If it helps, that element isn't overplayed. That said, it's not underplayed either.

Decidedly not underplayed lol
 
It's also brilliant how they used historical research to blend the real life socio-economic factors that led to witch scares in New England, with the accurate supernatural details of the stories themselves. It gives the film a very smart sense of realism and believable characters while also delivering on the supernatural thrills. It's also has a pretty great message as well. You go girl, you live deliciously.
 
I'd argue it's modern fairy tale, not horror genre

But yeah it's creepy, not scary.

Agreed. I didnt think it was scary, but it was definitely creepy as shit. But im a horror film veteran and i dont think anything could scare me nowadays unless it was a horror film about rent prices and electricity bills. But it was a good film. I enjoyed it simply because it was a horror film that dared to be different from the other ten a penny horror films nowadays, there was no climactic showdown, no houses shaking themselves apart, no jump scares, no need to have everything wrapped up in a happy ever after ending etc. Its basically the antithesis of every lame ass horror film released in the last 10-15 years.
 

mantidor

Member
It's also brilliant how they used historical research to blend the real life socio-economic factors that led to witch scares in New England, with the accurate supernatural details of the stories themselves. It gives the film a very smart sense of realism and believable characters while also delivering on the supernatural thrills. It's also has a pretty great message as well.
You go girl, you live deliciously.

That's kind of a spoiler :p

I disagree though, and it's something I love about this movie,
witches have this modern connotation of female liberation, but the movie show us a price, as deliciously as she'll live, she basically kills her twin siblings in order to do so, and it's implied she would go on killing and torturing "innocents". The movie does a good job into how the devil was able to recruit her, he broke her whole family and they all turned against her, just for being a girl.
 

Dennis

Banned
It strikes me that while
The Devil is real and has obvious powers, God on the other does jack shit. Even though all the characters, including the parents, seem like decent enough people and they pray to God constantly, they still end up fucked
 

Dennis

Banned
Am I misremembering or did the
witch castrate the baby? At first I thought maybe it was the mother in that scene and it was some sort of unorthodox circumcision but boy was I wrong.
 

RS4-

Member
Am I misremembering or did the
witch castrate the baby? At first I thought maybe it was the mother in that scene and it was some sort of unorthodox circumcision but boy was I wrong.

For a bit I thought something worse was going on when you hear certain noises and she's only shot from the back.
 
Am I misremembering or did the
witch castrate the baby? At first I thought maybe it was the mother in that scene and it was some sort of unorthodox circumcision but boy was I wrong.

Haha.

She cuts the baby open and mashes up its organs in a churn to make a flying ointment.
 
I'd argue it's modern fairy tale, not horror genre

But yeah it's creepy, not scary.

This always happens when a horror movie comes out that critics/audiences generally like... It happened with Silence Of The Lambs and its happening with The Witch.

It is horror. The theme of horror stretches far and wide. It doesn't need to 'scare' to be horror. Hellraiser is a story about a love triangle, Deep Red is a murder mystery and The Thing is a story about trust, yet all are horror. Horror movies are our modern fairy tales.

On the topic of this movie, I haven't seen it yet. I am generally not a fan of period pieces, though, but will check it out once it gets on streaming and such. In terms of modern movies, it will have to do a lot to top Bone Tomahawk and We Are Still Here from last year.
 

Khal_B

Member
did they ever show what happened to the twins? I assumed they died or were killed, but they just kind of disappeared once the barn door was found to be broken out of.


Remember the coven of witches levitating at the end? I think there are pretty strong implications that the twins suffered the same fate of the baby i.e. killed and ground to a pulp to make flying ointment. The fact that Thomasin starts levitating also makes the scene all the more disturbing.
 
That's kind of a spoiler :p

I disagree though, and it's something I love about this movie,
witches have this modern connotation of female liberation, but the movie show us a price, as deliciously as she'll live, she basically kills her twin siblings in order to do so, and it's implied she would go on killing and torturing "innocents". The movie does a good job into how the devil was able to recruit her, he broke her whole family and they all turned against her, just for being a girl.

Isn't this a LTTP thread assuming peoppe have seen it? I don't think it makes sense out of context anyway.

The reading of witchcraft as female liberation is a modern stance, but how that's conveyed is very accurate, considering women were especially susceptible to accusations. Female sexuality and hormone driven teenage outbursts are antithetical to the patriarchal Puritan society, which makes young women ample fodder for witchcraft accusations from the people who are really deflecting their own insecurities in their suffocating faith. And honestly, the movie makes a pact with a devil seem like the lesser of two evils than belonging to that sort of society, which I imagine is why it upset some Christian folks and made the Satanist church so happy. Throughout the whole movie Thomasin was treated like shit by her family so I can hardly blame her for wanting something that gives her agency and power, even if it is a Devislish sort. I mean her own mother tried to kill her. I would say it was less the Devil breaking the family then him simply tipping the first domino and letting them do the rest.

Am I misremembering or did the
witch castrate the baby? At first I thought maybe it was the mother in that scene and it was some sort of unorthodox circumcision but boy was I wrong.

She definitely did. Which makes sense since the witches are prortrayed as
fuck the patriarchy
.
 

mantidor

Member
She definitely did. Which makes sense since the witches are prortrayed as
fuck the patriarchy
.

This is the thing, the witches are portrayed as monsters, plain and simple,
the baby is not castrated, is beaten into a pulp to allow the witches to fly.
however now that you mentioned it there is certainly imaginary that can make you believe that, the movie is so subtle with that.

But that is the beauty of
good
art, everyone sees it differently, and the movie builds it's world so meticulously you are really drawn into it. I honestly understood the mind setting of these people so much better, for our modern sensitivities the witch trials and how they were carried out are simply appalling, they were torture and a death sentence, but that is because we don't believe in witches, if you believe these were real you would have carried out such judgements, better to die than to be actually something so monstrous.

Also the movie could have so easily portrayed the father as a one note patriarchal abusive figure, but nothing of the sort happens, it's a complex character and really you can't help but to feel sympathetic for him. I really didn't see it as some sort of critic to the patriarchal system of Puritans at all.
 
The reception The Witch (and It Follows and Babadook) has received tells me horror fans deserve the schlock Hollywood gives them. Dope movie.
 
I was (I believe) the only person in the theater to enjoy it. A whole bunch of "WTF was that?, even a couple boo's.
The person I went with fell asleep.


I thought it was great.
 
The reception it has received tells me horror fans deserve the schlock Hollywood gives them. Dope movie.

Every time I read an audience review talking about how it's not really a horror movie because it doesn't have jump scares, I want to go beat them over the head with a copy of 13 Ghosts.
 
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