TheGreatDave
Banned
RiskyChris said:
I'd say it's the fact it has some length and an interesting world to explore, but that works too
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LTTP: Wind Waker
- Thread starter Prime crotch
- Start date
I'd say it's the fact it has some length and an interesting world to explore, but that works too
TheGreatDave said:I'd say it's the fact it has some length and an interesting world to explore, but that works too
I agree with you. Also a big problem in Wind Waker was that each block of water (on the map) took five minutes to get through and add to that the 30 seconds it took to change the direction of the wind, so unless there was a warp point right on your destination, it took a hell of a long time to get to where you wanted to go.
I also liked the music in TP and I found the dungeons were more fun overall.
Wind Waker did have some pros over TP though. Sidequests is one of them, sidequests in TP are basically non-existant. Another pro is the introduction to Ganon in WW vs TP,
In Wind Waker you basically had a personal vendetta against Ganon because he kidnapped your sister and you actually met with Ganon face to face during the middle of the game, while in TP the first time Link actually saw Ganon was right before you fought him
TheGreatDave
Banned
That's true, I'll take back what I said about TP being better in every way. The lack of side quests or anything that felt as alive as the towns in Wind Waker hold it back.
good game, but honestly I think neither WW nor TP hold a candle to Okami. aside from some pacing issues and some annoyances here and there Okami just outclasses both imo.
Okami did the following better than both of those Zelda games:
+great story - one thing I really dont like about Zelda storylines is that you'll reach a point where the plot stops and until you dont retrieved whatever items you were ordered to fetch there is no character development and the story doesnt move foward at all. Okami doesnt fall into that trap, the story in Okami is constantly going foward with great character development. I wish Team Aunoma would take notes of how Okami handled its story
+great music - Zelda music now disappoints the crap out of me. Okami's music majestic and full of win.
+the item management is AWESOME and much better in Okami by far, that fact that the brush does away with tedious item management from the Zelda series is a BIG plus in my eyes.
+better usage of Abilities, the problem with most Zelda games since OOT is that dungeons are generally designed around one tool/item in Okami you must make full use of every single ability at your disposal to overcome the puzzles in each dungeon, even bosses in okami require full use of every ability.
+awesome sidequests. each town/city in Okami is full of sidequests and most of them are awesome, I cant remember a single cool sidequest from WW/TP.
Zelda games still have better dungeons (that's not to say Okami's dungeons suck because they are pretty cool) but Okami is better in just about every other aspect imo. Okami to me is 10/10 game, WW 8.5/10 and TP 9.5/10
Okami did the following better than both of those Zelda games:
+great story - one thing I really dont like about Zelda storylines is that you'll reach a point where the plot stops and until you dont retrieved whatever items you were ordered to fetch there is no character development and the story doesnt move foward at all. Okami doesnt fall into that trap, the story in Okami is constantly going foward with great character development. I wish Team Aunoma would take notes of how Okami handled its story
+great music - Zelda music now disappoints the crap out of me. Okami's music majestic and full of win.
+the item management is AWESOME and much better in Okami by far, that fact that the brush does away with tedious item management from the Zelda series is a BIG plus in my eyes.
+better usage of Abilities, the problem with most Zelda games since OOT is that dungeons are generally designed around one tool/item in Okami you must make full use of every single ability at your disposal to overcome the puzzles in each dungeon, even bosses in okami require full use of every ability.
+awesome sidequests. each town/city in Okami is full of sidequests and most of them are awesome, I cant remember a single cool sidequest from WW/TP.
Zelda games still have better dungeons (that's not to say Okami's dungeons suck because they are pretty cool) but Okami is better in just about every other aspect imo. Okami to me is 10/10 game, WW 8.5/10 and TP 9.5/10
RiskyChris
Banned
Error said:
Arguing music against the WW soundtrack is a mighty tall task.
It's probably been suggested before, but Nintendo really should do a Master Quest-style WW remix for Wii. Aonuma knows the flaws and should be able to fix them -- expanding or adding in a few more dungeons and reduce the Triforce hunt, changing up the islands a little and adding just a few more sidequests to them so that there's just a bit more to do in general, perhaps adding one or two more useful items, slightly tightening up de sailing (the sail shouldn't be the only item you can have equipped while sailing), etc.
Okay, so maybe that goes somewhat beyond Master Quest-style remixing, but it would still be easy money. It really could be the best Zelda. It's probably a pipedream, but with the recent popularity of Phantom Hourglass, who knows?
Okay, so maybe that goes somewhat beyond Master Quest-style remixing, but it would still be easy money. It really could be the best Zelda. It's probably a pipedream, but with the recent popularity of Phantom Hourglass, who knows?
Jon_Danger
Member
the thoroughbred said:
I stumbled upon the cave of ordeals real late into my playtime (i did ALOT of exploring) and I finished it without dying no problem, but it was fun, I had to use all of my bottled fairies!
Also, I HATED the water temple.
Not hard, just really annoying
Jon_Danger
Member
Error said:
Why are you talking about Okami?
Visualante
Member
To start a ePenis slapping contest.Jon_Danger said:
Fair enough if you use Okami as a point to support your argument against Wind Waker, but using WW and TP to support your point about Okami in a WW thread is pretty deluded.
I liked both, but neither was perfect.
I remember that part. Lots of fun. And such a beautiful area.Prime crotch said:
Now all you've gotta do is get the third pearl, go through an end dungeon or two, and you're done the game! Don't worry if that sounds short, Nintendo found a way to turn that into most likely the longest Zelda you've ever experienced!
Error said:
While I don't agree that Okami is better than TP or WW (I think Okami is incredible, though), I do agree with this point most of all. Okami's brush idea was groundbreaking for this very reason. It was having every single item at your disposal at any time, without the need for any irritating menu crawling or management.
because of this post in this very threadJon_Danger said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7378763&postcount=70
thegreatdave said:
TheKingsCrown
Banned
Interesting, perhaps I should take a look back at OOT. It has been a while, although I think we need to be careful about nostalgia. No nostalgia will cover up the fact that I was afraid for OOT to actually end and for WW the triforce quest never did.Amir0x said:
eXistor
Member
Ah Wind Waker, a near-classic and near-contender for best (Zelda) game ever. If only it had a few more months of development, then it could've been the best game ever. Hell, even as it is it pisses all over most games.
Don't bring Okami into this, it's hardly worthy. You have to use all you abilities in the dungeons? WHAT DUNGEONS? Boss Fights? None were that memorable (seriously I can't remember any of them right now) and you have to do them multiple times. That just sucks dude, no matter which way you look at it. It's a good game for sure, but it's a pale impersonation of most Zelda's (yes even Zelda has weak entries).
I guess I brought Okami into this as well
Don't bring Okami into this, it's hardly worthy. You have to use all you abilities in the dungeons? WHAT DUNGEONS? Boss Fights? None were that memorable (seriously I can't remember any of them right now) and you have to do them multiple times. That just sucks dude, no matter which way you look at it. It's a good game for sure, but it's a pale impersonation of most Zelda's (yes even Zelda has weak entries).
I guess I brought Okami into this as well
Fun Factor
Formerly FTWer
GSG Flash said:
Zelda has a lot of old outdated & boring game designs. Okami not so much.
perryfarrell
Member
This probably has already been said, but: in terms of looks and art direction, it hasn't been surpassed
Prime crotch
Banned
I'm sorry but as much as I love Wind Waker, the OoT mechanics need to go. The camera sucks, the jumping mechanics sucks, boomerang just ain't fun without lock-on, even the item management needs a overhaul. The combat is fine though, since Zelda is more about exploration than fighting.jman2050 said:
Prime crotch said:
I think we should all agree that after TP we've had enough of the OoT mechanics. But I think the jumping should stay the way it is. Some parts of the game that could easily be jumped to but instead are gotten to by some sort of item, lets say a cuckoo, is IMO better then just jumping up there which is why I like Zelda games a lot, everything isn't accessed by pressing a button.
FTWer said:
Really? You mean that whole "LET'S FIGHT THE SAME BOSSES AGAIN" thing isn't old outdated and boring game design?
If only Hideki had an ounce of creativity, he would've made one of those Orochi battles different from the other. There were three of them. Three. I know Wind Waker has the same shit Okami did at the end of the game, but at least before you got to the boss repeat section, you had a minidungeon in front of it.
Okami employed the collectathon as well. It was more of a Jak II style collectathon, which often involved you running from person to person, gathering this or that, without using much in the way of actual gameplay. Dungeons took the backseat to the uninspired story until the third act of the game. And there were so many shitty things you had to do even late in the game. Did anyone find that wandering old man puzzle remotely entertaining the first time? How about running through the forest at the end of the game? I can't believe a game that had such brilliant dungeons was so shitty outside of them. And let's not forget that Okami, like Zelda, also used a simple Stun/Reveal Weakness -> Attack pattern for most bosses.
That said, the boss battles were nice the first time. The dungeons were incredible. The style of the graphics and music created a perfect atmosphere (even during the most soul-suckingly shitty parts of the game, seeing a dead land burst into colors was abso-fucking-lutely amazing).
For me, Wind Waker isn't the worst Zelda by any means, but it is the worst by EAD. I liked the artstyle and narrative, but the dungeons, puzzles, overworld, sailing, interaction, side quests and combat, were all disappointing.
As for Okami, again, great graphics, probably the best on PS2, but the game was really boring imo. It was a real chore to get through. Of the two, Wind Waker was a better game.
As for Okami, again, great graphics, probably the best on PS2, but the game was really boring imo. It was a real chore to get through. Of the two, Wind Waker was a better game.
The real shame is that Okami is the one that is constantly compared to Zelda when Beyond Good & Evil is a far better candidate overall.
Better music, better world, better characters. The dungeon areas weren't up to Okami's level, but the overall package was far more together and solid.
Better music, better world, better characters. The dungeon areas weren't up to Okami's level, but the overall package was far more together and solid.
rollingstart
Banned
AniHawk said:
well, I remember before Okami (or to be more accurate, around when BG&E was out), it was compared to it.
but so was Starfox Adventures...
TwinIonEngines said:
I don't know how I could've forgotten that. It definitely sucked a lot of life out of the game.
I remember BGE's comparisons to TWW back then. I was more inclined to believe BGE was better too. At the very least, it's clearly a better game than Majora's Mask.
rollingstart
Banned
AniHawk said:
I think MM was great, so I dont know if I would consider BG&E over it, but I do think BG&E is a better game than Okami. None of them are bad tho, all 3 are amazing.
Magicpaint
Member
AniHawk said:
No it really isn't. BGE isn't as good as any Nintendo developed Zelda infact.
What's there of the game is good. But it's far too short and light on level design and polish to even come close. It has a good story, good characters and wonderful atmosphere but it definitely isn't in Zelda's league (and I personally think MM trumps it in those departments as well as being far superior gameplay-wise). Not by a long shot.
...Prime crotch
Banned
Gawd fucking damnit Nintendo! Fix your damn camera controls. I want the camera fixed on my back not to lock on to the nearest monster.
Also make bigger rooms if you're making the camera restricted to the walls, I'm tired of getting camera angles where I can't see shit.
Having said that.....I love this game so far specially the cartoon style it has charm it has personality and you just have to love charismatic kid Link.
I have the feeling I'm gonna hate what's coming next, the upgrade run. So far I've already done the boring "hit me 1000 times without dying" challenge and I know the rest is going to be as boring. At least I hope there's no golden spider skulls like OoT collecting quest.
Also make bigger rooms if you're making the camera restricted to the walls, I'm tired of getting camera angles where I can't see shit.
Having said that.....I love this game so far specially the cartoon style it has charm it has personality and you just have to love charismatic kid Link.
I have the feeling I'm gonna hate what's coming next, the upgrade run. So far I've already done the boring "hit me 1000 times without dying" challenge and I know the rest is going to be as boring. At least I hope there's no golden spider skulls like OoT collecting quest.