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LTTP: Xenosaga Episode 1: Der willersomethingorother

I'm one of the weirdos who preferred the pacing and atmosphere in XS1 to the other two (still think XS3 is a great game though).

If XB was your first xeno game I recommend going back to xenogears as well. Beats XS and XB over the head in terms of plot, characters, and atmosphere, though the gameplay hasn't aged well.
 
Really didnt like this series. Aside from a story standpoint (and even then you had to deal with namco bandais interfering butchering of the story) and graphics/fmvs, the game was a massive step back from xenogears. No overworld, where xenogears was exceptional, horrible level/area design, where, again, gears was exceptional. It felt like the entire series was modeled after disc 2 of gears, where the funding had been pulled and they had to just slap something together.

It wasnt until I saw the exploration trailer of a game called 'Monado, beginning of the world' that I recognized the return of gears style world design on super roids and realized monolithsoft got out of the akward seperation phase with flying colours.
 
Z3M0G said:
You may love or hate part 2. I loved it, it's possibly my favorite entry in the trilogy. It depends if the combat clicks with you or not, but it still has flaws since spells are completely useless.
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IIRC elements had a multiplier if you keep hitting an enemy in a row with it. I beat the super bosses using spells and buffs like fire sword since it gets the multiplier really large. The worst thing imo about the battle system is how tedious it is to break enemies and pretty much most enemies needed to be broken to do significant amounts of damage. You had to wait or use a boost against enemies that had a long break sequence so most of the time it felt like you were setting up the attack instead of attacking. It made the battle pace feel slow.

I think EP3 had a much more intuitive system where you cast abilities that build up the enemies break gauge. Though the game is still imbalanced by Blood Dancer Kos-Mos and Momo (funny how she build up break the fastest endgame with double fishblows).
 
perorist said:
I'm one of the weirdos who preferred the pacing and atmosphere in XS1 to the other two (still think XS3 is a great game though).

If XB was your first xeno game I recommend going back to xenogears as well. Beats XS and XB over the head in terms of plot, characters, and atmosphere, though the gameplay hasn't aged well.
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well, I already said XS1 is my second favorite game ever in this thread (an no episode 3 isnt number 1) so I agree with you
 
Xenosaga 1 was good. That's pretty much all I can say about it. Xenosaga 2 was meh and Xenosaga 3 was amazing.
 
Happy to see so many Xeno threads. Loved the Xenosaga trilogy. Like others I have no problem with heavy story driven games and episode 1 does a great job of introducing the world and characters.

Episode 2 admittedly is a chore to get through but keeps the story going. The ending though sets up Episode 3 really well to the point where you want to get into 3 immediately.

Episode 3 delivers in every aspect. Music is phenomenal. Battle system and character designs are spot on. And then there's the story and ending. For me it's so much more than a game.
 
ep1 is the best XS. the music and battle system, story and database, character designs that aren't yet fudged by awful redesigns

the *music*
 
Episode III is by far the best "game", though the story teases in Episode I seem far grander than what actually transpired (which is saying something).

I think most would struggle to describe the actual story of the game, because there's a lot of concepts that either aren't fleshed out or dropped, especially once they make the decision to do a trilogy instead of a 6-part series.

Also, the story of the Xenosaga franchise itself is a great history lesson on how happy MonolithSoft must be with Nintendo.

anaron said:
ep1 is the best XS. the music and battle system, story and database, character designs that aren't yet fudged by awful redesigns

the *music*
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I found the battle system of 3 to easily be the best, while 1 was fine and 2 was slow and trash. The music in episode 1 -- WHEN THERE WAS MUSIC -- is great.
 
I got up to some weird alien ship and I think I somehow ended up at a house in a field somehow and stopped playing around there, haha.

I loved the universe of the game, it seemed really cool, but I never felt like I was ever able to get any time to figure out how the battle system worked. It was so long ago that I played it that I can't even remember what I thought was confusing in the first place, maybe something to do with the robots you can summon (or whatever they call it) and how those really worked.
 
Can't wait to play the HD Remaster tbh
I remember precious little of the overall storyline
But the ending of XS1 stays quite vivid in my mind
Always thought that had the best look for kosmos
 
Rodney McKay said:
I got up to some weird alien ship and I think I somehow ended up at a house in a field somehow and stopped playing around there, haha.

I loved the universe of the game, it seemed really cool, but I never felt like I was ever able to get any time to figure out how the battle system worked. It was so long ago that I played it that I can't even remember what I thought was confusing in the first place, maybe something to do with the robots you can summon (or whatever they call it) and how those really worked.
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You just pull up the robots from the menu. However, you can only heal them at designated points so there's a risk to using them too often in normal battles.

The way they "work" according to the game is they are stored in capsules that used compressed space technology (the same that is used in warping) basically the capsule is a little space pocket that is large enough on the inside to store the robot but small enough on the outside to pocket. I immediately equated them to this.
 
ivysaur12 said:
Episode III is by far the best "game", though the story teases in Episode I seem far grander than what actually transpired (which is saying something).

I think most would struggle to describe the actual story of the game, because there's a lot of concepts that either aren't fleshed out or dropped, especially once they make the decision to do a trilogy instead of a 6-part series.

Also, the story of the Xenosaga franchise itself is a great history lesson on how happy MonolithSoft must be with Nintendo.



I found the battle system of 3 to easily be the best, while 1 was fine and 2 was slow and trash. The music in episode 1 -- WHEN THERE WAS MUSIC -- is great.
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3 is definitely the best *game* and is the sort of pacing and game design they should've started with. a marriage of 1 & 3 would've been amazing
 
ivysaur12 said:
Episode III is by far the best "game", though the story teases in Episode I seem far grander than what actually transpired (which is saying something).

I think most would struggle to describe the actual story of the game, because there's a lot of concepts that either aren't fleshed out or dropped, especially once they make the decision to do a trilogy instead of a 6-part series.

Also, the story of the Xenosaga franchise itself is a great history lesson on how happy MonolithSoft must be with Nintendo.



I found the battle system of 3 to easily be the best, while 1 was fine and 2 was slow and trash. The music in episode 1 -- WHEN THERE WAS MUSIC -- is great.
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Definitely. 2 and 3 each only close a chapter on the questions and teases that universe presents. There's so much more that can be expanded on.

I also found 3 to have the best battle system. It was a simple turn based system that implemented the break system of 2 in a smart way and that was enough to make it good. Animations were fast and battles were short which really helped with the monotony of turn based RPG battles in general, while still making the boss fights feel intense. And mixing up mech/human battles in 3 also helped to keep it fresh as well as keeping (most) dungeons on the shorter side compared to 1. 1 had some really cool things going with the combat, until the point where it really started to drag and you just wanted to spam Kos-Mos's X-buster to get things over with. Better pacing in 1's dungeons would have gone a long way to making that game's combat better. And we all know about 2 so no point in discussing that.
 
B.K. said:
No. Soraya Saga said that the parent company (Bandai Namco) had nothing to do with the changes after Episode I.
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Well, of course she has to say that when you're employed by said parent company. Takahashi has gone on record shouldering some of the blame, but also taking some slight jabs at Namco. Seems to be a combination of the two for all of the series's problems. It would also explain why he'd want to leave.
 
B.K. said:
She was never employed by Bandai Namco. She was always a freelance writer working for Monolithsoft.
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Yes, and who's her husband again?

On another point: One of the nice things about the Nintendo/MonolithSoft partnership is that MonolithSoft obviously has ambitions of grandeur, while Nintendo is very gameplay focused. You sort of saw this ambition in Episode 1 mixed with some poor dungeons, linear design, and a battle system that worked but was often half-baked. The marriage between the two competing interests lead to something much more complementary in Xenoblade, which feels markedly different from a MonolithSoft game and from a Nintendo game. I mean, even Baten Kaitos Origins feels like a precursor to this game design where 3 party members were used for the game system as opposed to a more traditional number, where gameplay is starting to supercede the story needs.
 
I have all three but I couldn't make it through this one for some reason so I never got to the others.I tried many times but for some reason the long cutscenes just didn't click with me, which is weird since I enjoyed and finished Xenogears. Maybe one day I'll have to give the series another shot.
 
B.K. said:
I really wish Takahashi and Soraya Saga hadn't been pushed to the side after Episode I. Her notes on what was cut from Episode II were interesting. It sounded like they tried to wrap up the first arc with Episode II. It would have been interesting to see what they would have done.
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Me too. Soraya Saga's postmortem is absolutely fascinating but it's kind of a trainwreck sort of fascinating. She poured a lot of heart and soul into Episode II in particular and only pieces of that remain in the final product.

Ending the arc in Episode II seems to have been a futile ideal in general, though, IMO. Episode I was already only about 60% of its original vision length-wise. II would have needed to be twice its length or more, not... notably shorter.

People often talk of Episode III as abruptly having the weight of multiple games on its shoulders, and in a way, they're right, but all three of those games had a similar dilemma. The difference is that I and II had to be less than intended, which gave III the unenviable gamble of needing to not only wrap everything up as best as possible, but even address certain things its predecessors were supposed to have tackled.

Edited to add:

I second all Xenogears recommendations, by the way. Still the best. Always the best. All my childhood.
 
Trigger said:
Wat. Xenogears had some pretty awful dungeons. Specifically I think of that one dungeon where you have to climb a tower with some awful jumping sections thrown in.
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Sure they dont hold up 100% Today, but back then, there was little to nothing else to compare it too.

It took a while to learn, but once you did, that investment paid off with platforming all over 3d towns and dungeons to find goodies. A vastly different experience than being funneled through pre-rendered barely interactive on a gamepla level bitmaps like the majority of the fifth generation.
 
Aside from the protagonist that made me want to kill myself on multiple occasions, it's a great game or rather, great trilogy of games. Like most have been saying, play the other two games too if possible, Episode 3 is indeed a fantastic game.

And Xenogears. I hate the battle system and dungeons in that game, but otherwise it's one of the best JRPGs ever.
 
Muntu said:
Aside from the protagonist that made me want to kill myself on multiple occasions, it's a great game or rather, great trilogy of games. Like most have been saying, play the other two games too if possible, Episode 3 is indeed a fantastic game.

And Xenogears. I hate the battle system and dungeons in that game, but otherwise it's one of the best JRPGs ever.
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Really? I thought Shion was one of the better parts of Xenosaga, mostly because her relationships at least felt grounded and not based on Judeo-Christian-Gnostic mumbo jumbo. Like, I understand her relationship with Alan, with KOS-MOS, with her ex-lover/boyfriend guy because they were fleshed out over the story.

A lot of my problems with Xenosaga as a story were that these relationships of characters in your party (see: chaos/KOS-MOS) were based upon events that you never really participate in. It's a JRPG problem in general. The only real character that felt like they had these relationships arced over the series was Shion, mostly because you were witnessing everything from her point of view. And Jr., I guess, but bleh.
 
ivysaur12 said:
Really? I thought Shion was one of the better parts of Xenosaga, mostly because her relationships at least felt grounded and not based on Judeo-Christian-Gnostic mumbo jumbo. Like, I understand her relationship with Alan, with KOS-MOS, with her ex-lover/boyfriend guy because they were fleshed out over the story.

A lot of my problems with Xenosaga as a story were that these relationships of characters in your party (see: chaos/KOS-MOS) were based upon events that you never really participate in. It's a JRPG problem in general. The only real character that felt like they had these relationships arced over the series was Shion, mostly because you were witnessing everything from her point of view. And Jr., I guess, but bleh.
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If someone were to ask me what character I hated most in all of gaming, I'd probably say Shion. At the very least, she's the first one that comes to mind. Shion is the biggest reason the Xenosaga games will never make my top lists, even though they are fantastic games otherwise, like I said. Everything she says or does infuriates me to the point that it leaves me wondering how it's even possible that a video game character is making me feel this much animosity toward them.

Well okay, I may be exaggerating a bit, but she's absolutely fucking terrible in my opinion.

At least I'm not the only one who feels this way lol, I remember a bunch of NeoGAF users agreeing with me.
 
Best one, imo. (Never finished 3...). Albedo and Virgil are still two of my favorite villains.

^ Shion is indeed infuriating. Worst character in the game by a country mile, that's for sure.

I also love how they were just like "Fuck it, just make this character a digital Peter Sellers."
 
Muntu said:
If someone were to ask me what character I hated most in all of gaming, I'd probably say Shion. At the very least, she's the first one that comes to mind. Shion is the biggest reason the Xenosaga games will never make my top lists, even though they are fantastic games otherwise, like I said. Everything she says or does infuriates me to the point that it leaves me wondering how it's even possible that a video game character is making me feel this much animosity toward them.

Well okay, I may be exaggerating a bit, but she's absolutely fucking terrible in my opinion.

At least I'm not the only one who feels this way lol, I remember a bunch of NeoGAF users agreeing with me.
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Not to be rude, but how? She doesn't really do a lot, or at least nothing that would seem to inspire anything that much animosity? The most frustrating thing about Shion is that every other fucking character in the game knows what's going on, and refuses to let Shion (or the player) in on the secret for reasons (again, a common RPG storytelling trope, but bleh), thus making her stuck in the dark for most of the game. Until the end. When Jesus.

One of the few redeemable parts of Xenosaga's ambitious-yet-absolutely-absurd story is the Shion/KOS-MOS relationship because it's actually something that's arc-ed over three games.

Nose Master said:
^ Shion is indeed infuriating. Worst character in the game by a country mile, that's for sure.
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Quite an accomplishment considering Jr. is a character.
 
ivysaur12 said:
Not to be rude, but how? She doesn't really do a lot, or at least nothing that would seem to inspire anything that much animosity? The most frustrating thing about Shion is that every other fucking character in the game knows what's going on, and refuses to let Shion (or the player) in on the secret for reasons (again, a common RPG storytelling trope, but bleh), thus making her stuck in the dark for most of the game. Until the end. When Jesus.

One of the few redeemable parts of Xenosaga's ambitious-yet-absolutely-absurd story is the Shion/KOS-MOS relationship because it's actually something that's arc-ed over three games.



Quite an accomplishment considering Jr. is a character.
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I didn't mind Jr. Generic Naruto archetype, he's fine.

Speaking of, what was so bad about Episode 2? I remember it being mostly about the... forget the name, Albedo/Gaignun/Jr and it being short, and that's about it.
 
I remember these games being really hard when I was younger, but at the same time I didn't really sit down and learn the battle system.
 
ivysaur12 said:
Not to be rude, but how? She doesn't really do a lot, or at least nothing that would seem to inspire anything that much animosity? The most frustrating thing about Shion is that every other fucking character in the game knows what's going on, and refuses to let Shion (or the player) in on the secret for reasons (again, a common RPG storytelling trope, but bleh), thus making her stuck in the dark for most of the game. Until the end. When Jesus.
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She makes some ridiculously stupid decisions throughout the series, but I suppose it's mostly just because she is who she is. Everything about her personality annoys me and every night I go to bed, I thank all the new gods and old gods and demigods and other spiritual beings that I don't know anyone like her in real life.

And I personally remember Jr. being okay. Pretty bland and forgettable, but at least not someone I hate.
 
Muntu said:
She makes some ridiculously stupid decisions throughout the series, but I suppose it's mostly just because she is who she is. Everything about her personality annoys me and every night I go to bed, I thank all the new gods and old gods and demigods and other spiritual beings that I don't know anyone like her in real life.

And I personally remember Jr. being okay. Pretty bland and forgettable, but at least not someone I hate.
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But like... what? There wasn't really anything about her that really struck me one way or another, so I guess I'm confused as to what made her so unbearable to you.

Nose Master said:
I didn't mind Jr. Generic Naruto archetype, he's fine.

Speaking of, what was so bad about Episode 2? I remember it being mostly about the... forget the name, Albedo/Gaignun/Jr and it being short, and that's about it.
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Terribly slow battle system and its story feels very schizophrenic, which makes sense, considering how it was made. I remember it being really weirdly paced, and sort of had the same problems that Episode 1 had in design but without the operatic nature of the first. And it was based on Jr., who was pretty horrible.
 
ivysaur12 said:
But like... what? There wasn't really anything about her that really struck me one way or another, so I guess I'm confused as to what made her so unbearable to you.
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Uh. Like I said, I just highly dislike her personality and every aspect of her character, not sure what's so hard to understand about that. What do you want me to say? People have different opinions.

e: well, skLaFarebear listed one of the reasons
 
Gonna put the "Shion hate explanation" in spoiler tags even though its not much of a spoiler.

I think it was the whole "me me me" complex with shion that really frustrated people. Her decisions, especially in the third game, were baffling to the player and the party and it was easy to see how dumb she was. But to be fair, she didn't really know what the fuck was going on with her or around her so some of her decisions were understandable.

My biggest problem with her is her being mean to Miyuki. Don't be mean to Miyuki, she's awesome!

In the first two games however, shion is just kind of there. She really doesn't have any kind of relevance to the plot other than being the person who invented Kos-Mos and the shit that goes down with Vector.

On the other hand I enjoyed the Rubedo/Albedo story more than the Shion story and I love Jr though not as much as Kos-Mos, Jin, or Ziggy.
 
Most of my Shion dislike is because of her Ep 1/3 voice actress. I cannot stand listening to a single word she says. Ep 2 she was fine. The rest of my dislike is with the plot twist involving her in Ep 3 which was melodramatic to the point of ridiculousness.
 
Muntu said:
Uh. Like I said, I just highly dislike her personality and every aspect of her character, not sure what's so hard to understand about that. What do you want me to say? People have different opinions.

e: well, skLaFarebear listed one of the reasons
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Well, no, it's just, when someone does something that's frustrating, it's usually pretty easy to pick out why something is frustrating. The weird thing about Shion is that there really isn't anything that she does besides not know what's going on, which isn't really her fault and is sort of a problem with JRPGs in general. It's requires a little more explanation than "I highly dislike her personality" when you said:

Everything she says or does infuriates me to the point that it leaves me wondering how it's even possible that a video game character is making me feel this much animosity toward them.
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I guess it's very hard to me to understand exactly what she did as a character that was so awful, as she really doesn't do much all 3 games!

skLaFarebear said:
I think it was the whole "me me me" complex with shion that really frustrated people. Her decisions, especially in the third game, were baffling to the player and the party and it was easy to see how dumb she was. But to be fair, she didn't really know what the fuck was going on with her or around her so some of her decisions were understandable.

My biggest problem with her is her being mean to Miyuki. Don't be mean to Miyuki, she's awesome!
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But, like what, though? It's been a while since I've played the trilogy (and god, I'm never going back to try, considering the first two aren't even wholly realized games), but I'm struggling to even think of something that she did that was truly frustrating. Again, she's in the dark, but that's the game's fault for surrounding her with characters who: 1) know more than her and 2) who are obtuse for no particular reason in order to shield the player from plot details. That's bad story design, and it's something I wish JRPGs would shy away from.
 
ChronotriggerJM said:
KOS-MOS is so damn awesome.

Pro tip, never stop upgrading the r canon. It's stupidly over powered by end game. Not that the other moves aren't great, but r canon seems like a loop hole.

I remember beefing up the cyber kick as well because it grossed my friend out.
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Give Jr. Angelic Requiem + the accessory that lets you do more damage at low health + cast the spell that lets you survive a death blow = game over. That doesn't happen till a good ways into the game though.

great game, I liked all the characters. I don't see how shion would stand out as particularly bad, she's just kinda Type A. Starting Xenosaga 2 with different voices felt very wrong. Maybe wasn't a Grammy winning cast in 1, but nothing called for scrapping all but a couple of them.
 
ivysaur12 said:
I guess it's very hard to me to understand exactly what she did as a character that was so awful, as she really doesn't do much all 3 games!
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I said I was exaggerating.

When (if) I replay the games, I'll make sure to list everything she does that I find annoying. Jesus.
 
The shear number of cutscenes and the length of them broke my will to want to finish this game back in the day. I still have it though and I bought the other 2 with the intent to try again one day. Maybe I'll boot it yup again this weekend.
 
Hard trilogy to get into. It's long-winded and very hit or miss on various design points. Then there's a big snag called Xenosaga Episode II. Hopefully Episode I leaves a big impression on you, OP. You'll need it to drive you through Ep II to the big pay off that is Episode III and story's end.
 
Arklite said:
Hard trilogy to get into. It's long-winded and very hit or miss on various design points. Then there's a big snag called Xenosaga Episode II. Hopefully Episode I leaves a big impression on you, OP. You'll need it to drive you through Ep II to the big pay off that is Episode III and story's end.
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I got stuck in a big difficulty spike in II. I need to go back and finish that. Then get on to III
 
Arklite said:
Hard trilogy to get into. It's long-winded and very hit or miss on various design points. Then there's a big snag called Xenosaga Episode II. Hopefully Episode I leaves a big impression on you, OP. You'll need it to drive you through Ep II to the big pay off that is Episode III and story's end.
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Well I'm liking it so far.
 
Episode 2 is actually my favorite, though I think 3 is a much better game. There's a heart to the Junior/Albedo backstory that's missing from Ep 1 and 3.
 
Peltz said:
As someone who is replaying Xenoblade on Wii in prep for Xenoblade X, I do eventually plan to go back and check out the earlier "Xeno" games some day.

That's saying a lot considering I generally don't like the genre. I hear so much about XenoGears in particular, but this trilogy is definitely on my "to-play" list as well.
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as someone who LOVED xenogears, i hated xenoblade for the most part...

xenogears is very plot driven with hours of text and xenoblade is the opposite with hours of sidequests
 
Ivy, I got you with the Shion-like! Loved Shion, and her relationships were great and I really felt for her.

But yes, most likely these games will live in my memory and I won't play them again because the anime melodrama is too much for me in my old age. But I adoooooored the hell out of them in my angsty teenage years. :D
 
Kind of overlooked, but there's also some very relevant/interesting back story in a piece called Xenosaga Pied Piper. It was a Japanese cell phone game that now exists as text and a bit of art. Reading through it adds much more weight to certain reveals and characters in episode II and III. It takes place about 100 years prior to XS:I and details Ziggy's past as an investigator tracking down a cyber terrorist.
 
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