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[GhaleonEB]

Thank you, we needed another popcorn.gif. :lol

 

[PleoMax]

EA didn't get the keys.

 

[Mrbob]

wait, now every single game should be at 60 fps? hey guys, what about DR and LP? we should revive that "30 or 60 fps" thread

the double standard here is retarded

:lol

 

[Norse]

30fps x 4D = 120fps

 

[Kintaro]

Nice, now if I want to play 60 fps Madden, I have to play it on my 360, which reads DDEs every other time it plays a game. Awesome.

=(

So stupid.

 

[USD]

wait, now every single game should be at 60 fps? hey guys, what about DR and LP? we should revive that "30 or 60 fps" thread

the double standard here is retarded

When the standard last gen for sports games was 60FPS, they should be. The vast majority of games are still 30FPS, with the exception of fighters, racers (last gen it was mostly 60FPS, now it's only 50-50), sports, and some action titles.

 

[Ynos Yrros]

30fps x 4D = 120fps

+ Giant Enemy Crab*real time weapon changing/RIIIIDGGEEEE RACEEEER = awesome

 

[Haunted]

:lol :lol

when's Doom coming back?

Spoiler

he is coming back, right?

 

[PleoMax]

Good. 60fps always seemed a bit too fast for me with sports games. I have often found myself overcompensating for things, or doing a move sooner than I had intended at 60fps. I'm more than fine with 30.

Omg post of the year, somebody get this man a tag

"I'm too slow for 60 FPS"

 

[JoeFenix]

I'm just waiting for the EA and 2K are lazy brigade to arrive.

I think people are going to have to come to accept that both consoles have advantages and ''power'' is a very loose term.

One thing for sure, Sony needs to step up their tool support because this won't fly for long.

 

[Sypher]

Lazy.

and also SABATOGE.

 

[Fafalada]

So can you explain, using small words for my benefit, why we keep seeing this sort of thing in multiplatform games when the PS3 is obviously the superior hardware?

I wasn't looking to discuss this at all with my post, but for what's worth, Awntawn answered that better in simple words then I could.
Primarily this topic has been beat to death during DC/PS2 era, and then again with GC/XBox, and it's not like any new revelations are to be had this time.

Back to the point of my first post though, I was referring to misconceptions about current consoles architectures and strengths, not their performance relative to each other.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Omg post of the year, somebody get this man a tag

"I'm too slow for 60 FPS"

No kidding. Now 60fps is too fast of a framerate? That's some astounding spin right there. 0_o

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I'm just waiting for the EA and 2K are lazy brigade to arrive.

I think people are going to have to come to accept that both consoles have advantages and ''power'' is a very loose term.

One thing for sure, Sony needs to step up their tool support because this won't fly for long.

Look below.

 

[fortified_concept]

Nevermind what benchmarks you may be looking at, when you look at the actual games coming out, they take a hit in these regards. Case in point, Project 8.

That's because lazy-ass devs like EA don't know how to program for Cell properly. Hell I'd bet they probably squize more power out of XCPU than Cell. It took them years to learn how to program for PS2 let's hope with the tools Sony gave them recently they can do something better. Sony's 1st party games proove royally wrong anyone who tries to give a different meaning to the devs incompetence to make multiplatform games look at least as good as X360.

 

[AZ Greg]

Good. 60fps always seemed a bit too fast for me with sports games. I have often found myself overcompensating for things, or doing a move sooner than I had intended at 60fps. I'm more than fine with 30.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[westical]

That's because lazy-ass devs like EA don't know how to program for Cell properly. Hell I'd bet they probably squize more power out of XCPU than Cell. It took them years to learn how to program for PS2 let's hope with the tools Sony gave them recently they can do something better. Sony's 1st party games proove royally wrong anyone who tries to give a different meaning to the devs incompetence to make multiplatform games look at least as good as X360.

Yep, that's it, they're just lazy.

 

[PleoMax]

I wasn't looking to discuss this at all with my post, but for what's worth, Awntawn answered that better in simple words then I could.
Primarily this topic has been beat to death during DC/PS2 era, and then again with GC/XBox, and it's not like any new revelations are to be had this time.

Back to the point of my first post though, I was referring to misconceptions about current consoles architectures and strengths, not their performance relative to each other.

DC and PS2 were the same as GC and Xbox? Well that's news to me. Not to mention their relation to this gen is also a mistery to me, since they both had big differences in Ram, unlike, well now.

But yeah, it's a old and stupid topic. But i gotta say, you have this radar, whenever someone speaks about Ps3 vs 360 in any sort of "bad way" you show up. Are you a 1st party dev or something?

 

[Norse]

When specs for consoles are given out, they usually give a rate per second. And so a machine that can deal with 60 million triangles per second, divided by 60 will get you a million polys at 60 fps. Or 2 million afforded at 30 fps.

There are other factors, yes, but as far as raw processing power is concerned, the PS3 is well beyond the 360. I don't think Madden's AI or physics (rather than geometry) are causing the biggest drain on the CPU, though I could be wrong (and I'm guessing that this is what you are insinuating). Even if that were the case, the PS3 shouldn't have issues with that sort of stuff.
.

for every person that says ps3 is "well beyond" the 360 in power, there is another that says they are pretty equal. But, just for shitz and giggles lets just say spec wise a ps3 is more impressive than the 360. Trouble is, those specs are inside a sports car while the 360 is a racing motorcycle. Sure the sports car has an advantage in the horsepower spec, but that cycle will still blow its doors.

 

[Ynos Yrros]

Yep, that's it, they're just lazy.

Nah, they just lack the skill and/or experience.

for every person that says ps3 is "well beyond" the 360 in power, there is another that says they are pretty equal. But, just for shitz and giggles lets just say spec wise a ps3 is more impressive than the 360. Trouble is, those specs are inside a sports car while the 360 is a racing motorcycle. Sure the sports car has an advantage in the horsepower spec, but that cycle will still blow its doors.

On the 1m wide road called "multiplat games made by inexperienced devs" maybe.

 

[westical]

Nah, they just lack the skill and/or experience.

Of course, it can't be Sony's fault or anything.

 

[Ynos Yrros]

Of course, it can't be Sony's fault or anything.

Didn't say that, maybe SONY sent dev-kits too late.

 

[BigBoss]

Of course, it can't be Sony's fault or anything.

Looks at Sony's first party games...nope, not Sony's fault.

 

[Greg]

****
****ing ****
Seriously, ****.

No football for me this year.

 

[westical]

Looks at Sony's first party games...nope, not Sony's fault.

Yes, first party developers have no advantage whatsoever over third party developers.

 

[JoeFenix]

Look below.

Like clockwork.

EVERYONE IS LAZZZYYYYYYYY!!!!!

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

I wasn't looking to discuss this at all with my post, but for what's worth, Awntawn answered that better in simple words then I could.
Primarily this topic has been beat to death during DC/PS2 era, and then again with GC/XBox, and it's not like any new revelations are to be had this time.

Back to the point of my first post though, I was referring to misconceptions about current consoles architectures and strengths, not their performance relative to each other.

There was someone, I think Farid, on B3D who made a very nice post explaining the whole thing in very simple terms, even had pictures to help illustrate, but for the life of me I can't seem to come across it in searches... if anyone finds it they should post it...

 

[fortified_concept]

Yep, that's it, they're just lazy.

Yep that's exactly it. If 2nd party studios like Ninja Theory can produce games like Heavenly Sword in 9 months after PS3's launch I can't see why multiplatform games can't look better on PS3. Yes PS3 is harder to develop for and obviously if they cared they'd make it work, but multiplatform companies like EA obviously don't.

 

[Norse]

Looks at Sony's first party games...nope, not Sony's fault.

and what games would those be? Just wondering which ones you think are impressive that you have played so far. And you dont think 1st party games had any advantage over 3rd party? Like maybe having everything in the tools dept way before the 3rd party guys?


Sony 1st party so good they can get 60 fps from the ps3, just imagine what they could do with the 360!

 

[speculawyer]

Third page and no bans yet? There is no passion.

 

[urk]

Third page and no bans yet? There is no passion.

It's like trench warfare only both sides have no rifles. They just hunker down in the mud and see who can wank it the fastest.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Yep that's exactly it. If 2nd party studios like Ninja Theory can produce games like Heavenly Sword in 9 months after PS3's launch I can't see why multiplatform games can't look better on PS3. Yes PS3 is harder to develop for and obviously if they cared they'd make it work, but multiplatform companies like EA obviously don't.

The difference between a second party dev getting a blank check from Sony, resource sharing with experienced devs like Incog/Naughty Dog/Polyphony, and an unlimited window to delay their games, vs a third party dev working on a limited budget, sharing resources with the 360 team, and a firm August deadline?

This is not something unique to EA, or Activision, or Ubisoft, we just saw a very competent team over at Starbreeze release The Darkness, and even they couldn't wrap their heads around it. Obviously there's something that Sony isn't telling everyone who's not on their payroll.

+ Giant Enemy Crab*real time weapon changing/RIIIIDGGEEEE RACEEEER = awesome

Glad to see you're taking this so well. Calm down seriously.

 

[Haunted]

Third page and no bans yet? There is no passion.

bish is just waiting for the right moment to strike.

 

[FightyF]

That's because lazy-ass devs like EA don't know how to program for Cell properly. Hell I'd bet they probably squize more power out of XCPU than Cell. It took them years to learn how to program for PS2 let's hope with the tools Sony gave them recently they can do something better. Sony's 1st party games proove royally wrong anyone who tries to give a different meaning to the devs incompetence to make multiplatform games look at least as good as X360.

Well, then pretty much the entire game industry is lazy. They are in the business of making money. EA doesn't want to delay Madden into Spring 2008 to make it 60 fps, so it's a smart move.

If Ninja Theory was making this a multiplatform game and started on the 360, their PS3 version wouldn't have looked the way it does now, I can guarantee you that.

There is only ONE reason why the PS3 versions of multiplatform games look worse than their 360 counterparts...it's because of the PS3's unorthodox architecture. Now, who's responsible for that, EA or Sony?

 

[BirdBomb]

PS3 :lol

 

[MonkeyLicker]

EA delivered Fight Night Round 3 for the 360 only 3 months after the system launched. That game still has some of the most impressive visuals seen thus far.
Before FNR3 I would have agreed EA was lazy, but not now.

 

[Fafalada]

When specs for consoles are given out, they usually give a rate per second. And so a machine that can deal with 60 million triangles per second, divided by 60 will get you a million polys at 60 fps. Or 2 million afforded at 30 fps.

Right, but polygon rendering hasn't been the main/only limitation for framerate since PS1 days.
Rendering pipelines have gotten a lot more complex since then, and even during the PS2 era, we were far more often limited by everything else BUT the polygon drawing.

Nevermind what benchmarks you may be looking at, when you look at the actual games coming out, they take a hit in these regards. Case in point, Project 8.

Honestly I have no idea what Project8 is
My point wasn't relative performance - both PS3 and 360 designs emphasize very different strengths (and weaknesses) then their predecessors, regardless of what platform you prefer.

And if you insist on relative comparisons, you can look at comments from multiplatform developers (public OR private), the two common things you'll hear is "shader power = PS3" "polygons = 360". Granted that's simplified version.

DC and PS2 were the same as GC and Xbox?

Try reading some Wii topics and see how many people still believe GC was as powerful as XBox. Relative differences are smaller in each later case, but the arguments are ultimately the same.

 

[MonkeyLicker]

Granted that's simplified version.

To say the least....

 

[nathkenn]

I'm sure everyone is using the SPE's if they weren't you wouldnt be able to do much at all...

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Honestly I have no idea what Project8 is
My point wasn't relative performance - both PS3 and 360 designs emphasize very different strengths (and weaknesses) then their predecessors, regardless of what platform you prefer.

And if you insist on relative comparisons, you can look at comments from multiplatform developers (public OR private), the two common things you'll hear is "shader power = PS3" "polygons = 360". Granted that's simplified version.

Tony Hawk Project 8

Anyone reading Beyond3D will know what you've said is true though, in general terms.

 

[Xenon]

Third page and no bans yet? There is no passion.

And no humor.... PS3 is no laughing matter here at NeoGAF.

 

[speculawyer]

There is only ONE reason why the PS3 versions of multiplatform games look worse than their 360 counterparts...it's because of the PS3's unorthodox architecture. Now, who's responsible for that, EA or Sony?

I think the PS2 actually had a more unorthodox architecture . . . but Sony was able to get away with it since they got in the lead pretty quick.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I'm sure everyone is using the SPE's if they weren't you wouldnt be able to do much at all...

Shane on 1up yours made it sound like people are just throwing things at the RSX and just saying to hell with it. However, is Tiburon using Cell for the graphics?

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Yep that's exactly it. If 2nd party studios like Ninja Theory can produce games like Heavenly Sword in 9 months after PS3's launch I can't see why multiplatform games can't look better on PS3.

Then it does. What's your point? PS3 and Wii have both been out for a relatively short amount of time.

I'm sorry, but anyone not running damage control has enough sense to gauge things by development time, not minutes since launch. Ninja Theory is European, HS is only being released five months into lifespan!@!

 

[fortified_concept]

The difference between a second party dev getting a blank check from Sony, resource sharing with experienced devs like Incog/Naughty Dog/Polyphony, and an unlimited window to delay their games, vs a third party dev working on a limited budget, sharing resources with the 360 team, and a firm August deadline?

This is not something unique to EA, or Activision, or Ubisoft, we just saw a very competent team over at Starbreeze release The Darkness, and even they couldn't wrap their heads around it. Obviously there's something that Sony isn't telling everyone who's not on their payroll.

Considering we're talking about EA which I consider one of the the biggest problems of the vg industry I could be *a little* biased against them. Anyway iirc Sony has recently released its EDGE tools, let's see how that'll work for EA (I predict not so well) and other multiplatform companies. And let's not forget that devs had one whole year to learn X360 better.

 

[tribal24]

the bad ps3 news is it here >.>

 

[TheFallen]

30 FPS... 60 FPS... doesn't really matter to average joe gamer (you know, the millions of NFL fans that flock to stores to purchase Madden year after year).

 

[nathkenn]

Shane on 1up yours made it sound like people are just throwing things at the RSX and just saying to hell with it. However, is Tiburon using Cell for the graphics?

I know some things are done with it but I'm no programmer. I don't just mean tiburon though. It's sort of a core feature of the ps3 ignoring would be sort of retarded but I guess it could happen if you're short on time.

If it were up to me most everything would be 30 anyway I guess I'm used to having a crappy pc that can barely keep 30fps anyway I kind of wish we could render at SD res for certain games I bet the extra horsepower would be awesome on both consoles.

 

[krypt0nian]

In the end it doesn't matter if they are lazy or unskilled. If multiplatform games regularly play better on another console, that's pretty much the end of the story.

I don't care why or how much, I want the best version of the game. And the first person that says Free Online gets a smack in the teeth.

Developers, put some effort in or don't bother releasing it. This shit is embarrassing.

 

[CrushDance]

Or the architecture for the platforms is different and the extra development time (a full year) on one platform made tangible differences in the end result? Logic first, save the conspiracy theories for a Mel Gibson/Julia Roberts team-up heading toward Lifetime networks in your area, soon.

I really tried to find an appropriate picture for this. But I couldn't it's great in its own regard.