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[googleplex]

I'd like to know where you got that information from. Maddox provides a clear source for the statistic showing that 47% of readers are female. Unless that missing 3 percent passes your threshold for "overwhelming".

Context is king dude. If 47% of the female comic book readers are women but their are mostly reading things like Archie comic, sonic comics and indie comics. But in the case of classic superhero comics woman still are the target demographic and so the way their represented is still behind the curve.

The books like the New Ms. Marvel gives me hope that this is changing.

 

[XAL]

American comics are overwhelmingly about one target audience, though. I'm glad I hate superhero comics, because otherwise I'd probably get an aneurysm seeing so much absurd sexualization. Or maybe that's partially why I hate them. xD

It's not just the sexual aspect too, it's impossible anatomy that's just gross. Speaking of which:

(Source)

I don't know if there are any fellow artists in this thread, but when you draw a figure - even from a model, you don't have to aim for it to be EXACT - artists can disregard a perfect representation of the anatomy in favor of something more expressive and less precise. Small alterations in complex poses can make the end result look entirely unnatural when in fact, it's entirely possible.

The guy that made the pose in the image I quoted said he just threw it together quickly and didn't painstakingly try to replicate the image with any serious effort.

In short, the image I quoted from is not correct and Manara's seemingly impossible pose IS POSSIBLE. In other words, the anatomy of his drawing is sound - it just looks wonky and awkward because it looks wonky and awkward in real life ("extreme" pose).

 

[stufte]

Where did I say anything about 100% correct? There's a big difference between stylized art and completely broken human bodies.

That 3d model is so fucking broken because the person who made it has no idea what he/she is doing.

The guy that made the pose in the image I quoted said he just threw it together quickly and didn't painstakingly try to replicate the image with any serious effort.

In short, the image I quoted is not correct and Manara's seemingly impossible pose is possible.

fuckin' a right.

 

[lazygecko]

As a woman who is a fan of comics, I would be really interested in seeing what other women think about this as well.

I frequently check this comics blog which appears to be run only female comic fans:

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/

I usually like reading their insights on new and old comics alike, though it seldom has a gender-angle. Maybe you should just straight up ask them.

 

[nynt9]

American comics are overwhelmingly about one target audience, though. I'm glad I hate superhero comics, because otherwise I'd probably get an aneurysm seeing so much absurd sexualization. Or maybe that's partially why I hate them. xD

It's not just the sexual aspect too, it's impossible anatomy that's just gross. Speaking of which:

(Source)

Yeah, this is the only instance in history in which a comic book character, male or female, has been drawn with poor anatomical consistency. Also, the artist released this:

So it's not that implausible of a pose. Maybe the perspective is poor, but stylized drawings don't have to be super accurate, right?

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

American comics are overwhelmingly about one target audience, though. I'm glad I hate superhero comics, because otherwise I'd probably get an aneurysm seeing so much absurd sexualization. Or maybe that's partially why I hate them. xD

It's not just the sexual aspect too, it's impossible anatomy that's just gross. Speaking of which:

(Source)

This is nonsense. You're telling me that a woman cannot do this pose?

 

[Volimar]

I think it misses the real point of the controversy. It was touched on earlier in this thread. Marvel seems to be bending over backwards at trying to make it appear as if they want to be welcoming to female and minority readers. But dumb tactics like making the new Thor a girl to try to attract women while at the same time shopping out variant covers to porn tracers for overly sexualized and completely unrealistic pieces just shows that they aren't serious in their appeals to a broader audience.

You're not Escape Goat!

 

[Blair]

This motherfucker just climbed up a building with spider powers and people are making 3d models saying the pose is unrealistic


Maddox stays winning

 

[googleplex]

Has anyone here ever read Moon Over June? LOL

No one should ever read Moon over June.

 

[Kinyou]

I don't know if there are any fellow artists in this thread, but when you draw a figure - even from a model, you don't have to aim for it to be EXACT. Small alterations in complex poses can make the end result look entirely unnatural when in fact, it's entirely possible.

The guy that made the pose in the image I quoted said he just threw it together quickly and didn't painstakingly try to replicate the image with any serious effort.

In short, the image I quoted is not correct and Manara's seemingly impossible pose is possible.

Manaras response also included this quick sketch showing her from a different angle

Edit: beaten

 

[Yamauchi]

I don't even disagree with what he said. It was just shocking to watch that video. This guy is a complete idiot, and I can't believe I used to think he was so funny.

 

[XAL]

That 3d model is so fucking broken because the person who made it has no idea what he/she is doing.

He states in that reddit thread that he just threw it together quickly and didn't take a painstaking effort to recreate the pose and therefore it should not be taken as a 100% faithful recreation. It's more of a 'this is how it feels to look at'.

 

[agrajag]

This is nonsense. You're telling me that a woman cannot do this pose?

it doesn't even look like her head is tilted at the same angle in the drawing and the 3D model. People are trying to make a Rob Liefield drawing out of it, when it's not.

 

[lazygecko]

Context is king dude. If 47% of the female comic book readers are women but their are mostly reading things like Archie comic, sonic comics and indie comics. But in the case of classic superhero comics woman still are the target demographic and so the way their represented is still behind the curve.

The books like the New Ms. Marvel gives me hope that this is changing.

It might be a good point, but do you have any actual data to back that up? This feels more like another projection to me.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Has anyone here ever read Moon Over June? LOL

No, what relevance does that have?

*googles*

Ha

ha

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[kirblar]

American comics are overwhelmingly about one target audience, though. I'm glad I hate superhero comics, because otherwise I'd probably get an aneurysm seeing so much absurd sexualization. Or maybe that's partially why I hate them. xD

It's not just the sexual aspect too, it's impossible anatomy that's just gross. Speaking of which:

No arguments on the anatomy for both covers, I agree that they're both not very good. That criticism I'm 100% on board with.

Most things have a target audience though, and it's one of those things that is helped most by people purchasing content, in order to provide a justification for aiming more of it at them. Not every product can or should be for everyone - and while Marvel is definitely trying to appeal to a broader-than-normal audience with their recent title changes, that doesn't mean that they have to alter everything to be a four-quadrant title.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

I don't even disagree with what he said.

ok

It was just shocking to watch that video. This guy is a complete idiot, and I can't believe I used to think he was so funny.

Wait what?

 

[Sickboy007]

I think it misses the real point of the controversy. It was touched on earlier in this thread. Marvel seems to be bending over backwards at trying to make it appear as if they want to be welcoming to female and minority readers. But dumb tactics like making the new Thor a girl to try to attract women while at the same time shopping out variant covers to porn tracers for overly sexualized and completely unrealistic pieces just shows that they aren't serious in their appeals to a broader audience.

You're getting Manara and Greg Land mixed up.

 

[anarckitty]

Context is king dude. If 47% of the female comic book readers are women but their are mostly reading things like Archie comic, sonic comics and indie comics. But in the case of classic superhero comics woman still are the target demographic and so the way their represented is still behind the curve.

The books like the New Ms. Marvel gives me hope that this is changing.

Minus the whole "47%" is this an actual statistic, or did you just make that up? Because I have never been interested in any of those types of comics.

I swear I'm not being condescending, I just really would like to know if that's true.

I frequently check this comics blog which appears to be run only female comic fans:

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/

I usually like reading their insights on new and old comics alike, though it seldom has a gender-angle. Maybe you should just straight up ask them.

Thanks. I'll have to check it out. =)

 

[Slayven]

No, what relevance does that have?

*googles*

Ha

ha

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hope you weren't at work.

 

[crimzonflame]

Man I still remember that Maddox article where he criticizes children's art.lol

 

[Riposte]

You're getting Manara and Greg Land mixed up.

Which is an amazing feat, if you ask me.

 

[Kinyou]

I think it misses the real point of the controversy. It was touched on earlier in this thread. Marvel seems to be bending over backwards at trying to make it appear as if they want to be welcoming to female and minority readers. But dumb tactics like making the new Thor a girl to try to attract women while at the same time shopping out variant covers to porn tracers for overly sexualized and completely unrealistic pieces just shows that they aren't serious in their appeals to a broader audience.

Why can't they do both? Spiderwoman isn't for the same demographic that reads Ms. Marvel

 

[ffejeromdiks]

Wow, Maddox still has it. Didn't think his brand of humor would work in video form but I'm working through his channel now and it's great.

 

[Village]

Thanks to Tumblr, Twitter, and Kickstarter, you can pay your bills by being professionally offended these days. It's a pretty decent hustle if you put on a victim complex big enough to get a following.

Stop. Stop lumping things together to justify whatever view point you have STOP!!

 

[anaron]

Manaras response also included this quick sketch showing her from a different angle


Edit: beaten

And again, for Spider Woman's #1 as part of the NOW line, that pose is in incredibly poor taste.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Hope you weren't at work.

Good thing I wasn't, I'm still chuckling

 

[Kinyou]

And again, for Spider Woman's #1 as part of the NOW line, that pose is in incredibly poor taste.

What does that have to do with it? Is the NOW line not allowed to have sexualised characters?

 

[Sickboy007]

Which is an amazing feat, if you ask me.

Tell me about it, I'm Italian and I grew up on Manara. The last thread was painful, "hurr porn tracer". If anything, porn was inspired by him

Guy did the storyboards for Fellini, ffs.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

He speaks the truth. People love being outraged.

 

[anaron]

What does that have to do with it? Is the NOW line not allowed to have sexualised characters?

Not if they want new readers to take them seriously

 

[Slayven]

Which is an amazing feat, if you ask me.

Not really I confuse Garth Ennis and Chris Claremont all the time.

 

[CountAntonius]

Oh it's this dude. Never knew what he looked/sounded like.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Oh it's this dude. Never knew what he looked/sounded like.

Was that ever funny? (I'm a carnivore, btw, I just thought this meme was kind of dumb)

 

[Gartooth]

And again, for Spider Woman's #1 as part of the NOW line, that pose is in incredibly poor taste.

Not talking about her anatomy here, but speaking strictly in terms of pose why is it in poor taste? I'm legitimately curious why people are upset about this.

If it was another female character I would think that her crawling was meant as sexual... but this is Spider-Woman.

 

[Village]

Most things have a target audience though, and it's one of those things that is helped most by people purchasing content, in order to provide a justification for aiming more of it at them. Not every product can or should be for everyone - and while Marvel is definitely trying to appeal to a broader-than-normal audience with their recent title changes, that doesn't mean that they have to alter everything to be a four-quadrant title.

Isn't that the same argument that facilitates the self fulfilling prophecy that women don't like to buy " male oriented things" because they aren't buying that could be solved by making some stuff that appealed more to women?

 

[neogaffer1]

The uproar over this cover is kind of surprising to me. Sexualization in comics has been happening a while. Even with Oracle, a crippled character, they still stoop down to sexualize her:

I'm not defending it or anything, just asking why it took so long for people to notice.

 

[anaron]

Oh it's this dude. Never knew what he looked/sounded like.

Not surprised he was always an unfunny asshole

Not talking about her anatomy here, but speaking strictly in terms of pose why is it in poor taste? I'm legitimately curious why people are upset about this.

If it was another female character I would think that her crawling was meant as sexual... but this is Spider-Woman.

Because with Captain Marvel's 2012 relaunch, Marvel has taken great strides to reach out and better represent their female characters and audience. By sticking by what is considered a discouraging and outdated characteristic of Jessica, it illustrates a regression of their thinking and treatment of her as a character.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Surprised people didn't know what he looked like. His face is practically his logo:

 

[akira28]

The uproar over this cover is kind of surprising to me. Sexualization in comics has been happening a while. Even with Oracle, a crippled character, they still stoop down to sexualize her:



I'm not defending it or anything, just asking why it took so long for people to notice.

that's not stooping. That's elevation. that's...tower raising.
i still have that comic...

Raise the tower!!!

 

[Kinyou]

Not if they want new readers to take them seriously

I think it's made pretty clear for what reader they're aiming for. It's doubtful that they want this to be the next Hawkeye


If you don't like that you don't buy it and go for Ms. Marvel instead. If people can't look at the whole catalogue then that's their problem.

 

[Salamando]

One of Spider-Woman's powers are pheromones that make men attracted to her. The other character on the non-variant cover, Silk, wore spider-webs for her first costume. That pose is the least of their issues if they're aiming for serious.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

Man male spider-man has a nice ass, never noticed it before. Anyways, it doesn't matter if dudes aren't usually sexualized as much, so long as both male and females are being portrayed the same way, who gives a shit? It's not like they made the Spider-Woman way different, the way he drew her was basically the same and the pose is the same. Plus it's an optional cover, if you don't like it there's another one you can get that could better suite your preference. I agree with all the points he made, I especially love the insufferable ape insult. I found my new favourite thing to say.

 

[fertygo]

The uproar over this cover is kind of surprising to me. Sexualization in comics has been happening a while. Even with Oracle, a crippled character, they still stoop down to sexualize her:

LGBT issue also much bigger deal now than 5 year ago.

Social Perception is changing throughout the time, its not weird.

 

[abadguy]

People getting mad that an erotic artist drew a super hero looking sexy. Also great video, this is the stupidest "controversy" in a loooong time.

 

[akira28]

I will fight for sexualization. I will fight in the streets.

 

[Sickboy007]

The uproar over this cover is kind of surprising to me. Sexualization in comics has been happening a while. Even with Oracle, a crippled character, they still stoop down to sexualize her:

How is that stooping down? People with disabilities also have a sexuality.

 

[Village]

If you don't like that you don't buy it and go for Ms. Marvel instead. If people can't look at the whole catalogue then that's their problem.

Or they could not buy it and complain.

The point of internet forums, opinions and consumerism.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

It's not just the sexual aspect too, it's impossible anatomy that's just gross. Speaking of which:

(Source)

It looks like you have an Anime character as your avatar. So I'm assuming your ok with stylisation.

 

[anarckitty]

I will fight for sexualization. I will fight in the streets.

I challenge you to a duel, Street Fighter.

Spoiler

not really