Support NeoGAF

[wildfire]

It is vaguely similar, Spiderman's ass is not arched up like he's getting something stuffed up his butt. That he has to go back 10 years to find something comparable is proof enough that this pose is not very common for Mr. Spiderman.

If you are going to play that card maybe we need to examine Spiderwoman covers over the years.

http://www.coverbrowser.com/covers/spider-woman

4 out of 50 are of questionable taste and more importantly look like something you wouldn't see with a male character. There is a fifth one that also fits the second point but it isn't objectionable.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Spider-Woman_Vol_2

1 out of 4. Maybe 2.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Spider-Woman_Vol_3

0 out 18

http://marvel.wikia.com/Spider-Woman_Vol_4

1 out of 7 but it falls under the not a male pose but not objectionable material.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Spider-Woman_Vol_5

0 out of 1.

You have no credible argument.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

Yeah, things that are shitty should never change. #fuckprogress

I see what you did and I liked it.

 

[neogaffer1]

How is that stooping down? People with disabilities also have a sexuality.

I'm not saying that they don't, I just find it to be in bad taste. Sexualizing someone like Catwoman or Supergirl, I understand. But a person would really have to go out of their way to sexualize a disabled person.

 

[Gartooth]

Because with Captain Marvel's 2012 relaunch, Marvel has taken great strides to reach out and better represent their female characters and audience. By sticking by what is considered a discouraging and outdated characteristic of Jessica, it illustrates a regression of their thinking and treatment of her as a character.

Being able to stick to surfaces and crawl around like a spider is one of her abilities similar to Spider-Man, so why is this discouraging and outdated? This seems like a big double standard to me.

 

[XAL]

And again, for Spider Woman's #1 as part of the NOW line, that pose is in incredibly poor taste.

It's a Milo Manara variant cover.

The fact that it's a spider-person increases the odds that the pose will prooooobably outrageously exaggerated and involve the knees bent and the ass (and genitalia) presented prominently for all to see.

Maddox kind of does have a point on the double standard.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

American comics are overwhelmingly about one target audience, though. I'm glad I hate superhero comics, because otherwise I'd probably get an aneurysm seeing so much absurd sexualization. Or maybe that's partially why I hate them. xD

It's not just the sexual aspect too, it's impossible anatomy that's just gross. Speaking of which:

(Source)

It's sure as hell scary, but impossible? This is the Marvel universe, where you get superpowers from radioactive spiders remember?

 

[Gr1mLock]

I will fight for sexualization. I will fight in the streets.

Show that cloud who's the boss Storm!

 

[Kinyou]

Or they could not buy it and complain.

The point of internet forums, opinions and consumerism.

Sure. But to me that's like complaining why GQ isn't more inclusive towards women.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Maddox on-point as (almost) always.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

I think it's made pretty clear for what reader they're aiming for. It's doubtful that they want this to be the next Hawkeye


If you don't like that you don't buy it and go for Ms. Marvel instead. If people can't look at the whole catalogue then that's their problem.

If people can't look at the whole catalogue? Are we really going to pretend that comics aren't far and away the least inviting, most ridiculously convoluted form of media in the world? Breh I have trouble following crossover events and I've read comics my entire life.

You really expect a young girl to go to a comic store and 'know' to buy Hawkeye after looking? Maybe Ms. Marvel. MAYBE X-Men. But you know what's super likely? That young girl is going to see this Spider-Woman variant online before that happens and skip the store altogether because shit like attaching a Manara variant to Spider-Woman #1 makes comics uninviting to her.

 

[XAL]

It's sure as hell scary, but impossible? This is the Marvel universe, where you get superpowers from radioactive spiders remember?

It's not even impossible in real life.

 

[anarckitty]

I'm not saying that they don't, I just find it to be in bad taste. Sexualizing someone like Catwoman or Supergirl, I understand. But a person would really have to go out of their way to sexualize a disabled person.

Even as a heterosexual female, I find it to be visually appealing.

 

[googleplex]

I'm not defending it or anything, just asking why it took so long for people to notice.

The same reason it took so long for the people to take video game publishers to task for the representation of woman and minorities in video games.

The Justice League, Teen titans, young justice cartoons, the Marvel superhero movies have a sizable female fan base. Many of who first exposure to those "Comic book characters" weren't from the comics books themselves. But naturally the source material are being looked at by more and more female fans. Unfortunately I think woman are being turned off and away by comic books that are mainly targeted at the neckbeard crowd.

 

[lazygecko]

Man male spider-man has a nice ass, never noticed it before.

He sure has.

 

[cubicle47b]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ieq99w-VQ40 This video is great.

 

[Loofy]

lol Elle magazine. Heres an Elle magazine approved non sexist cover.

 

[inm8num2]

.

Don't forget Powdered Toast Man.

 

[Kinyou]

If people can't look at the whole catalogue? Are we really going to pretend that comics aren't far and away the least inviting, most ridiculously convoluted form of media in the world? Breh I have trouble following crossover events and I've read comics my entire life.

Usually that's an argument but not with the Marvel NOW line. There's plenty there for everyone.

You really expect a young girl to go to a comic store and 'know' to buy Hawkeye after looking? Maybe Ms. Marvel. MAYBE X-Men. But you know what's super likely? That young girl is going to see this Spider-Woman variant online before that happens and skip the store altogether because shit like attaching a Manara variant to Spider-Woman #1 makes comics uninviting to her.

Does this actually happen? People usually browse through stuff and pick something that appeals to them. Are boys driven away when they see some My little pony comic covers?

 

[abadguy]

Maddox on-point as (almost) always.

First i've ever heard of the guy but he was definitely 100% on point with this vid.

I think it's made pretty clear for what reader they're aiming for. It's doubtful that they want this to be the next Hawkeye


If you don't like that you don't buy it and go for Ms. Marvel instead. If people can't look at the whole catalogue then that's their problem.

Or they can buy it with the regular cover since this is a variant.

 

[anarckitty]

Does this actually happen? People usually browse through stuff and pick something that appeals to them. Are boys driven away when they see some My little pony comic covers?

Ahahaha. I like you.

 

[Jak140]

I'm not saying that they don't, I just find it to be in bad taste. Sexualizing someone like Catwoman or Supergirl, I understand. But a person would really have to go out of their way to sexualize a disabled person.

I imagine most disabled people would find this statement far more offensive than that cover.
Is it really a negative to show that disabled people can still be sexually attractive?

 

[Riposte]

I said this in the previous thread, but Manara draws some of the best hair in comics (even though his work is usually restricted to covers for capes).

 

[Village]

Sure. But to me that's like complaining why GQ isn't more inclusive towards women.

They like comic books, and would like more inclusive comic books for women?...

Unless you are suggesting comic's can only be male oriented, to which I say US comics need japan tech.

 

[Entropia]

Maddox's voice doesn't match what I imagine his voice would sound like when reading his website...

Nothing about his appearance is how I pictured him from reading his website.


But yeah, pretty good video.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

Does this actually happen? People usually browse through stuff and pick something that appeals to them. Are boys driven away when they see some My little pony comic covers?

Yes, young boys would be driven from comic book stores in massive droves if they stocked 90% My Little Pony related product. Yes. Absolutely yes. How is that a question? Current shops are just the reverse of that.

 

[Cyan]

Whoa, I haven't thought about this dude in years. Is his website still even running?

Also he's way smaller than I expected.

 

[Oersted]

Sure. But to me that's like complaining why GQ isn't more inclusive towards women.

Spider Woman is now a men's only magazine?

 

[akira28]

Yes, young boys would be driven from comic book stores in massive droves if they stocked 90% My Little Pony related product. Yes. Absolutely yes. How is that a question? Current shops are just the reverse of that.

I disagree.
(actually I read the my little pony comics in the store)

 

[inm8num2]

Whoa, I haven't thought about this dude in years. Is his website still even running?

Also he's way smaller than I expected.

He still posts, although less frequently than 8-10 years ago.

http://maddox.xmission.com/

 

[toastyToast]

I expected Maddox to sound like Seth Rogen.

 

[XAL]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ieq99w-VQ40 This video is great.

Holy. fuck. that's hilarious.

 

[lazygecko]

Whoa, I haven't thought about this dude in years. Is his website still even running?

Also he's way smaller than I expected.

Believe it or not, he actually appeared in Penn & Teller's Bullshit a couple of years ago. He was railing against old people. I think he was just trolling the show.

 

[Kinyou]

They like comic books, and would like more inclusive comic books for women?...

Unless you are suggesting comic's can only be male oriented, to which I say US comics need japan tech.

And there are more comics that will be inclusive. Marvel announced the female Thor on the View. (I agree, there's hardly enough, but Marvel has done some good steps)
Why can't they at the same time make something that's male oriented?

Spider Woman is now a men's only magazine?

Well looking at the cover it seems like it aims for men. Do you disagree?

 

[Sickboy007]

I'm not saying that they don't, I just find it to be in bad taste. Sexualizing someone like Catwoman or Supergirl, I understand. But a person would really have to go out of their way to sexualize a disabled person.

I don't follow you. There's nothing wrong in finding a disabled person sexy, or portraying it as such in a positive way, without resorting to fetishization. The world is full of beautiful people with handicaps that are perfectly comfortable with their body and their sexuality; I would like to post some great pics of paralympians but I'm afraid they're NSFW.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

I still love how some fanmail complained about how he doesn't smile in his videos, so now he makes it a point to flash a big goofy smile at the end of all of them

 

[wildfire]

Whoa, I haven't thought about this dude in years. Is his website still even running?

Also he's way smaller than I expected.

That haircut isn't helping him.

 

[Storm Chamber]

Man who gives a fuck

9/10 of yall dont even read comics like that

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Whoa, I haven't thought about this dude in years. Is his website still even running?

Also he's way smaller than I expected.

He attended book signings and stuff for years before he started his Youtube channel, so pictures and videos of him have been in the wild for quite some time. He hardly ever does articles any more though.

 

[lednerg]

I think his strongest point was when he said that sexualization is not in and of itself a bad thing. We're such a bunch of pathetic prudes in this country, it's not even funny.

 

[jackissocool]

I agree with the dude.

And another thing: Does anyone prolific ever complain that comic book super heroes are unrealistic standard for the male physique? I actually don't know, but that seems as widespread as skimpily clothed alien women.

Big muscles make you good at kicking ass. Big tits don't.

 

[kirblar]

Isn't that the same argument that facilitates the self fulfilling prophecy that women don't like to buy " male oriented things" because they aren't buying that could be solved by making some stuff that appealed more to women?

It's not so much a self-fulfilling prophecy as it is that the material targeted at a different market is more of a risk, or is going to be viewed as more of a niche title. If a property blows up huge you'll see copycats, extensions of the IP, etc. Women are a huge market- they were a huge part of the Manga boom years ago, and Marvels been trying to figure out how to capture sales from that market segment for a while. When I first got into comics, the Tsunami line was launching, which was specifically trying to get to that Manga audience. And it didn't work, despite their best efforts. Titles like Runaways struggled in sales despite being completely fantastic. Over the years- the trend for female-led superhero comics to just not sell well in comparison to the male-led ones has been pretty plain, and today, we still have Marvel actively trying to figure out how to crack that market.

It makes me actively wonder if the genre itself may be the issue. Marvel pretty specifically only does one genre. Unlike something like say, Shonen Manga, which can have a wide range of sub-genres despite being generally aimed at boys, the superhero genre has a relatively narrow spectrum of available types of titles. We see in the games industry that there's a distinct difference in the types of games that men and women tend to play, with some genres male-dominated, others female. Because Marvel specializes in just one genre- it feels like that there's a very real potential market out there, but that it may not be something that Marvel/DC are well-equipped to capture, because of their genre specialization. There are many non-superhero independent titles with massive female fanbases, but they don't really seem to be something Marvel/DC actively curate.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Maddox talking on video is so strange

His voice and body language do not match the macho image he cultivated via text all those years

 

[Sibersk Esto]

He attended book signings and stuff for years before he started his Youtube channel, so pictures and videos of him have been in the wild for quite some time. He hardly ever does articles any more though.

This was the first time I saw his face

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

And there are more comics that will be inclusive. Marvel announced the female Thor on the View. (I agree, there's hardly enough, but Marvel has done some good steps)
Why can't they at the same time make something that's male oriented?

They are already male oriented. Big time. Comics are massively male oriented and will remain so for a long ass time. We would like to see them tone that down. Especially when launching a new title featuring Spider-Woman of all people. It's asking to alienate female readership. Begging.

Think about it this way. Are Marvel's offerings toward men in any way inhibited by NOT having a Manara variant on issue one of a relaunched Spider-Woman? Is there literally anything about that detracting from the male experience of reading comics? Like, at all? Because a lot of women feel negatively impacted by this cover.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

I still love how some fanmail complained about how he doesn't smile in his videos, so now he makes it a point to flash a big goofy smile at the end of all of them

That's the best type of smiles, you can tell they're aren't trying to force a smile and they're doing it as a joke .

 

[Intheflorsh]

If you are going to play that card maybe we need to examine Spiderwoman covers over the years.

*snip*

Don't try to present your opinions as if they're objective statistics. Even glancing at those covers I can already tell we're not going to be agreeing about most of them.

 

[Fornaximus]

I think his strongest point was when he said that sexualization is not in and of itself a bad thing. We're such a bunch of pathetic prudes in this country, it's not even funny.

That's probably what bothers me the most about this brand of nontroversy. How sexualization or even simply attractiveness are considered negatives.

 

[Cyan]

He still posts, although less frequently than 8-10 years ago.

http://maddox.xmission.com/

Whoa damn.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=osama_death_day

 

[Kinyou]

Yes, young boys would be driven from comic book stores in massive droves if they stocked 90% My Little Pony related product. Yes. Absolutely yes. How is that a question? Current shops are just the reverse of that.

Well that's a bit different from just being turned off by a single cover as you suggested in your scenario. My whole point is that you can still have sexualised covers/comics while also being inclusive. You shouldn't fill 90% of the store with it but it also doesn't have to disappear.

 

[bronson]

Calling someone out for just being mad to be mad is pretty rich from a guy who's done nothing but for the last decade+.