To be fair, it could be that he always checks the thread around this time. I wouldn't take this as an indication.
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To be fair, it could be that he always checks the thread around this time. I wouldn't take this as an indication.
tomakasatnav
Member
Not really lurking, not intentionally atleast! Just all my posts have been after 5PM UK time, let's solve that one
I'd be .. not happy, but willing to fall on the sword for not being very active though, that'll teach me a lesson for (hopefully) next time.
I don't like picking a low activity player. It doesn't seem that likely for a Mafia player to be less active. It is so incredibly easy to sound like an innocent while being active with text communication so it is really advantageous for them to be in here and typing arguments that lead the town astray. And if one of them was being inactive the mafia team has outside the thread ways to prod their members into being active once the conversation drifts to "kill the inactive people".
The "just kill someone not playing much" tactic also provides nice easy way for active Mafia members to get us to hang someone they know is a townsperson while not being particularly suspicious or having anyone be very angsty about it. They weren't playing anyway. It's fiiiine.
Also remember, if someone is truly inactive they'll get replaced. So a spot that might be "wasted" right now wouldn't necessarily stay that way.
The "just kill someone not playing much" tactic also provides nice easy way for active Mafia members to get us to hang someone they know is a townsperson while not being particularly suspicious or having anyone be very angsty about it. They weren't playing anyway. It's fiiiine.
Also remember, if someone is truly inactive they'll get replaced. So a spot that might be "wasted" right now wouldn't necessarily stay that way.
I disagree completely. If anything it's mmore likely that you'll have one or more mafia being the "front men" and being active while the rest lurk in the semi active state. It's really not beneficial at all to post a lot if you're Mafia unless you're incredibly good at throwing people off a scent of accusing someone. One of the best Mafia tactics is to throw an accusation and let people kill themselves by trying to defend themselves.
I'm at work right now and will provide a more thorough response later today. I deliberately chose not to post in the first Day, and I do this in all games I participate in. Day 1 usually consists of idle chat and filler posts, and there isn't much to go off of. In refusing to speak, it prompts reactions from others who notice. Not that their reactions are necessarily towntells or scumtells, but it adds something to go off of for later. I'll comment more on specific posts made later today.
As of this point, I don't have hard reads on anyone. I do, however, find this post below particularly scummy:
Fishing for power roles like this is hardly helpful to the town. Townies already understand that Mafia exist and have nightly actions--it's the Mafia who are unsure of what particular abilities townies hold. Nothing to gain for the town's benefit here. Even if you are town (and again, I have no hard suspicions), why would you point this out? This is basically saying, "Hey, Mafia, one of these townies has a power role!" You're giving them targets. Not good, my man.
I'll come back after work.
As of this point, I don't have hard reads on anyone. I do, however, find this post below particularly scummy:
Fishing for power roles like this is hardly helpful to the town. Townies already understand that Mafia exist and have nightly actions--it's the Mafia who are unsure of what particular abilities townies hold. Nothing to gain for the town's benefit here. Even if you are town (and again, I have no hard suspicions), why would you point this out? This is basically saying, "Hey, Mafia, one of these townies has a power role!" You're giving them targets. Not good, my man.
I'll come back after work.
irfaanator
Banned
I gotta defend myself since if I get lynched the tourists are gonna be down one more thus hurting themselves. Ive put down my suspicions which are part thought out and part speculation.
I have no real reasoning for amirox or ultron, just hunches right now
johnnyquicknives
Member
I was pointing it out mostly to ask if that kind of thing is relevant, with an explanation of what was prompting me to ask.
Crab has now explained it's not, since the game will be held at whichever phase prods are sent, and Karkador has explained that that kind of metagaming is frowned upon anyway. my bad.
Are power roles Tourist specific? I was working under the assumption that they could be positive, negative or potentially neutral and as such didn't feel that point gives either side an advantage, it was mostly just something I was intrigued by.
Understood.
Power roles aren't town specific, and you're right that any party can be assigned special abilities and tools. The reason why your post may give an advantage is because we have an informed minority at play here. Let's pretend that your assumption was correct and that these prodded players held nighttime actions needed to move on with the game. If Xpike, ultron_87, and I were all the Mafia, we'd know each other, and that'd leave tomakasatnav listed as a power player not on our side. That would leave us to reason he'd be the best one to kill off.
Of course, this would be poor moderation on Crab's part, so that likely wouldn't be the case (which he's confirmed), but for all we knew at the time he posted it, it could've been a genuine slip of moderation. Pointing it out doesn't exactly help. It would just put a spotlight on the logical leap that we, as Mafia, should take. Admittedly, I haven't fully caught up on this thread, so I apologize if I'm being redundant here. For future reference, just know that power roles are typical for any party, but it's generally a bad idea to fish 'em out.
johnnyquicknives
Member
That worked out well for Barry, Duress!
egruntz, that makes sense. I'l think my posts through a bit more fully in future.
I appreciate your explanation, but I'm still a bit concerned about you. Your name had only come up as an aside in my post, and you jumped to counter accusations pretty quickly after that, without having shown any particular issue with me before I mentioned you. Your more recent posts don't sway me either direction, so I'm going by the initial reactions here.
As we're on the second day phase (unless I've missed something when reading back) there's not really going to be much of anything to go on so unless people get a bit more active later today I think we should probably lynch inactives. The only reason I've seen people lynch inactives and the reason why I agree with it is that they add nothing to the game at all and most, if not all of the time the Mafia will end up killing actives so the game will just die.
Zippedpinhead
Member
I think lynching an inactive player purely because they are not playing as much as some others is not a great reason to do it.
We really need to think on this before we jump. I see three out comes
1: lynch a mafia (great!)
2: lynch a tourist (no!)
3: no lynch (and the mafia picks off whoever they think was the most dangerous, probably trying to kill whoever didn't die last night)
Unless someone wants to reveal that they know something, or even guess that they know something,I think all we can do is lynch.
We really need to think on this before we jump. I see three out comes
1: lynch a mafia (great!)
2: lynch a tourist (no!)
3: no lynch (and the mafia picks off whoever they think was the most dangerous, probably trying to kill whoever didn't die last night)
Unless someone wants to reveal that they know something, or even guess that they know something,I think all we can do is lynch.
Zippedpinhead
Member
What I meant to say is that we need to think about who we kill, not just take an easy road.
I still think that that the inactive players are more likely beginners, who are tourists. They just vote so they are compiling their information before the voting occurs
I still think that that the inactive players are more likely beginners, who are tourists. They just vote so they are compiling their information before the voting occurs
The problem with not lynching inactives is as I've explained before, the Mafia is just going to kill off the active players, or leave certain ones alive to throw people onto a wild goose chase. By leaving the inactives alive all we're doing is risking that we get really lucky with our lynch, kill an active player who's not a mafian or we don't lynch at all. In games like these both lynching and non lynching are both as dangerous for the townies this early on, so we have to decide how risky we want to play this out.
I personally believe lynching inactives is our best bet, if not to force the other players into posting more which could lead to someone being hasty and saying something they shouldn't. It's better than having the 4-5 people actually posting slowly be killed off by both the mafians and in lynches then having the mafians have a free run to victory as nobody else is active.
I personally believe lynching inactives is our best bet, if not to force the other players into posting more which could lead to someone being hasty and saying something they shouldn't. It's better than having the 4-5 people actually posting slowly be killed off by both the mafians and in lynches then having the mafians have a free run to victory as nobody else is active.
johnnyquicknives
Member
For the first day no lynch made sense since we were only just getting going, some players might have missed us starting, and generally it was just pretty tricky to post anything that wasnt redundant. Moving forward I agree that considering lynching inactive players is worth doing.
I'd change 2 on zippedpinheads list to:
2A) Lynch a tourist who wasn't really involved (meh)
2B) Lynch a tourist that was using powerful role but lurking in this thread (fuck)
If we lynch a normal tourist that isn't active I don't see it as a massive negative, sure we will have made the mafias job easier slightly easier but we will also have narrowed our pool of suspects by eliminating someone that wasn't giving us anything useful to work with.
On the flip side I think the main potential negative would be if there is a Doctor or similar hiding in the shadows (maybe not posting to avoid drawing too much attention), but still using their skills to help us. Killing someone in that position would suck.
Without knowing the numbers of players on each side/with power roles you cant really know what the odds are, but right now I think i'm leaning slightly towards lynching someone inactive.
I'd change 2 on zippedpinheads list to:
2A) Lynch a tourist who wasn't really involved (meh)
2B) Lynch a tourist that was using powerful role but lurking in this thread (fuck)
If we lynch a normal tourist that isn't active I don't see it as a massive negative, sure we will have made the mafias job easier slightly easier but we will also have narrowed our pool of suspects by eliminating someone that wasn't giving us anything useful to work with.
On the flip side I think the main potential negative would be if there is a Doctor or similar hiding in the shadows (maybe not posting to avoid drawing too much attention), but still using their skills to help us. Killing someone in that position would suck.
Without knowing the numbers of players on each side/with power roles you cant really know what the odds are, but right now I think i'm leaning slightly towards lynching someone inactive.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Just to make things more interesting, I'll be running a game review and awards session at the end of this game. The review will cover what I thought of each alignment and person's actions - how well they played, alternate strategies that could have been used, how well town/mafia played, and so on. I'll also put forward my own personal nominations for Best Player in each alignment, and open up a nomination for you to put forward your best nominations. Keep active and make excellent posts and you're in for a shot to win our inaugural GAF mafia awards!
Sounds great. Looking forward to that.
Zippedpinhead
Member
The Mafia will use our failure to kill one of them and then take out one of our power players (as the Mafia probably are regular posters and feel safe). The Mafia know that if they can keep the rest of us focused on killing the inactives, who I firmly believe are not mafia (because it does not benefit a mafioso to lurk only) and are probably not a character with a special ability (unless every character has some sort of special ability). This kill does not benefit us, it only makes the game quicker as Crab will not have to reach out for replacements. To any characters that have special abilities and are not posting "regularly" you really should step your game up. Nothing good will come from us if you are dead... (like what johnnyquicknives said in 2B)
This is the same with No lynch today, It only benefits the Mafia. It tells us tourists nothing. It made sense on Day 0, but it does not make sense on day 1...
I'm extremely suspicious of this point here. If there's someone with a human power role hiding in inactivity, them suddenly bursting into the scene will make it incredibly obvious who the person is. I'm not saying you intentionally did this, but if anyone was to suddenly do that out of the blue you've just given them an easy kill.
It also benefits the mafians to have both active and inactive players as to make it hard to pinpoint who exactly is one. If all the mafians are active they'll probably all get lynched early if there's people lynching actives, or they'll manage to unsurprisingly outlast the other active players in the thread in the night phases.
Zippedpinhead
Member
Staydead, I noticed you mentioned before that Mafia can post once and watch others kill themselves defending against accusations. I think this is a little different then killing our inactives.
I agree, it can benefit a Mafia goon to post less than others (as you said). However, it does not benefit them to constantly be prodded into playing. The faster the game is, the more likely it is for the Mafia to win. they want us to make mistakes and underthink our lynches, They don't want us poring over their old conversations and finding inconsistencies.
I agree, it can benefit a Mafia goon to post less than others (as you said). However, it does not benefit them to constantly be prodded into playing. The faster the game is, the more likely it is for the Mafia to win. they want us to make mistakes and underthink our lynches, They don't want us poring over their old conversations and finding inconsistencies.
Zippedpinhead
Member
posting regularly is not the same as being a power poster. it just means that they don't have to be prodded into playing, two days is more than enough time to post something. I did not mean to imply they should post every hour or suddenly be in the thick of things, I just said that they should post enough so that they do not get prodded. all prodding does it put a target on your back (obviously I mean look at our conversation).
I think we are on the same page as far as mafia actives and "inactive" players go. It does benefit them to have some "face" players and some "hidden" players, but hidden and not Prodded (which frankly puts a target on your back) is different then inactive and being prodded into playing.
The thing is, them all posting does not make the game go any faster and also by all posting a lot they have more chances of seriously messing up and outing themselves. I've played in games like this before where the mafians all tried to be active, but one of them messed up and it led to them all being killed very soon after as at some point they all managed to link themselves to each other, on accident of course.
I'm still waiting to see what you say about asking the power roles to be more active though, because I personally think the power roles should stay doing what they are, because any sudden posting style changes by just one or two people would out them immediately if they did what you said.
Zippedpinhead
Member
That's what I figured.
As mentioned previously, I have no issue lynching inactives, but ideally someone has something more to go off than their simply inactive.
Here are our players that have posted five or less times:
tomakasatnav 5 [1 prod]
Ward 5
Kalor 5
AbsolutBro 4
Rembrandt 3
egruntz 3 [1 prod]
ultron87 3 [1 prod]
MattyG 1
- MattyG made one post on the 8th, so he did not receive a prod. He has not posted since.
- tomak, egruntz, and ultron all got proded but, now seem at least semi-active.
- I accused tomak yesterday, and he immediately stepped in to defend. Since he is in UK time, however, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now. He has posted a few times since then, but hasn't made an appearance today yet.
I had a bad feeling about ultron, but this post has changed my mind.
It seems like he has the best interest for the town in mind, so my suspicions of him has cleared.
As for everyone else, I'm not sure what to make of it.
We could start listing who we definitely think is town and who we are unsure about, and see where we overlap.
Here are our players that have posted five or less times:
tomakasatnav 5 [1 prod]
Ward 5
Kalor 5
AbsolutBro 4
Rembrandt 3
egruntz 3 [1 prod]
ultron87 3 [1 prod]
MattyG 1
- MattyG made one post on the 8th, so he did not receive a prod. He has not posted since.
- tomak, egruntz, and ultron all got proded but, now seem at least semi-active.
- I accused tomak yesterday, and he immediately stepped in to defend. Since he is in UK time, however, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now. He has posted a few times since then, but hasn't made an appearance today yet.
I had a bad feeling about ultron, but this post has changed my mind.
It starts out sounding like he's just trying to defend himself from a lynch (anyone would do it), but then he makes a good point about mafia members provoking the killing of inactives in his 2nd paragraph. Although this is kind of framing me in a bad light, it seems like a very pro-town thing to say. There are lots of inactives and they can't all be mafia. If he were mafia, he'd likely be pro lynching inactives, since, chances are, we have a higher chance of lynching a townie than a potential inactive mafia member. He's also not particularly responding to defend himself from a lynch, just generally speaking in general, so it's not like he's trying to make an argument just to save himself.
It seems like he has the best interest for the town in mind, so my suspicions of him has cleared.
As for everyone else, I'm not sure what to make of it.
We could start listing who we definitely think is town and who we are unsure about, and see where we overlap.
Well, I'll start with my list.
Likely Town
ultron - For reasons listed in above post
StayDead - arguing with zipper about best way to vote, seems pro-town
Zipperpinhead - ""
irfaanator - Seems proactive
Palmer - Active player, contributes frequently
Suspect
Duress - posted a bunch, but not much substance. Trying to be active without contributing is a mafia tactic.
nin - Simply for day one flip-flopping on no-lynch day 1 and afterwards calling out people as suspect for voting no-lynch without reason. Goes with the flow d1, then points fingers.
tomak - See conversation at the top of this page.
???
Foshy - Still cannot get a read on you, Foshy.
Now that I've analyzed it a bit, I'm leaning towards Duress. He's "active", but not "pro-active". Seems like he's just trying to blend in.
Likely Town
ultron - For reasons listed in above post
StayDead - arguing with zipper about best way to vote, seems pro-town
Zipperpinhead - ""
irfaanator - Seems proactive
Palmer - Active player, contributes frequently
Suspect
Duress - posted a bunch, but not much substance. Trying to be active without contributing is a mafia tactic.
nin - Simply for day one flip-flopping on no-lynch day 1 and afterwards calling out people as suspect for voting no-lynch without reason. Goes with the flow d1, then points fingers.
tomak - See conversation at the top of this page.
???
Foshy - Still cannot get a read on you, Foshy.
Now that I've analyzed it a bit, I'm leaning towards Duress. He's "active", but not "pro-active". Seems like he's just trying to blend in.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
I'm not convinced no lynching again is a good idea. It gives the mafia more power to kill people without us learning anything else before they do. I can see the argument for it, but we're going to have to do something at some point or else we'll get into a situation where we don't get anywhere while the mafia just picks us all off. If we keep going no lynch then no-one's ever going to be in a position where they have to really defend themselves further than a single post.
pants
Member
I'm still conflicted here. I want to stay with no lynch, because again we're likely to lynch a townie unless something crazy happens, I don't have enough information to push for a lynch on anyone (consider that if you get it wrong you're suspect nr 1) yet I realize if we go on no lynching we're running the risk of being bossed out the game by the mafia. That's where I currently am in my thought process
Well, I'll start with my list.
Likely Town
ultron - For reasons listed in above post
StayDead - arguing with zipper about best way to vote, seems pro-town
Zipperpinhead - ""
irfaanator - Seems proactive
Palmer - Active player, contributes frequently
Suspect
Duress - posted a bunch, but not much substance. Trying to be active without contributing is a mafia tactic.
nin - Simply for day one flip-flopping on no-lynch day 1 and afterwards calling out people as suspect for voting no-lynch without reason. Goes with the flow d1, then points fingers.
tomak - See conversation at the top of this page.
???
Foshy - Still cannot get a read on you, Foshy.
Now that I've analyzed it a bit, I'm leaning towards Duress. He's "active", but not "pro-active". Seems like he's just trying to blend in.
I disagree about irfaanator for reasons I've posted previously.
I also have the same problem with Foshy. I just have a niggling feeling about him, without any particular posts to point to as a reason.
Otherwise, I feel like jonnyquickknives is town because his reasoning has seemed sound.
This was going to be a longer post but work shit is cropping up. I'll try and post a more detailed one later.
This is actually the first reason I've seen for why hanging someone today is a good idea that actually makes sense to me. I hadn't considered the information gained from the actual process.
QuantumBro
Banned
What are some of the posts Duress has made that seem suspicious? I agree with you on nin. tomak seems like a possible fool, if this game has one.
What's a Fool role entail? The wiki is blocked for me at work.
johnnyquicknives
Member
I think its the fact that he is posting enough to be visible without really saying anything.
Theres not really anyone thats screaming mafia at me. I posted yesterday that I was a bit suspicious of irfaanator, and his recent posts havent changed that so I'd have him on my short list even though its a bit weak.
Right now I am more suspicious of Amir0x, he also seems to have made quite a few posts with very little substance and something about this post (which directly follows Barry's long, and final, post) just seems a bit off too me, in light of recent events
QuantumBro
Banned
If they get lynched, they win.
He also hasn't posted since the first day.
QuantumBro
Banned
I'd be kinda surprised that there's a fool too, but something about his last post rubbed me the wrong way.
Not really lurking, not intentionally atleast! Just all my posts have been after 5PM UK time, let's solve that one
I'd be .. not happy, but willing to fall on the sword for not being very active though, that'll teach me a lesson for (hopefully) next time.
Could be a power role that only gets activated upon a lynching.
QuantumBro
Banned
I love the hunter role. My favorite game of Werewolf involved a massive killing spree where we lynched the wolf cub, so the werewolves killed two townspeople, the witch elected to kill a 3rd, who turned out to be the Hunter, who killed a 4th, who was a Lover with a 5th player. We lost a third of the town on Night 2/Day 3 due to that. Werewolves cleaned up pretty quickly after that.
Yeah, I thought this was quite a large game from the various forms of internet mafia I've played before.
I've been taking my time and reading through the posts since the start and as of right now the only person that stands out to me is nin. My main reason is how they acted around the d1 vote but that has been mentioned before.
I'm sorry for not being active a lot, I've checking up on the thread on my phone but haven't had time to post much.
Yup. Mathematically speaking we'll always have poor odds unless someone with a special role tells us who to kill, which he/she should only do if absolutely necessary (as it's practically suicide). Therefore we'll have to use the information we (as a group) can get, which is the discussion and voting behaviour, to hopefully find the mafia.
The alternative is to wait until special roles - if we even have some that are useful in that regard - have uncovered enough mafia to reveal themselves. I'm not sure if that's really better for us, but it would certainly be a lot more boring.
QuantumBro
Banned
Everyone needs to vote (or fake vote) for who they think is the most suspicious, so we can get something going.
Yeah, that was my reasoning for Duress. Now that you mention Amir0x, he hasn't had any particularly profound posts, but he also hasn't been too active recently, either. I guess I'd add him to my suspect list.
If no one votes soon I may have to be the one that gets the ball rolling here.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
It depends what variants you're used to. I'd say the average game size I've encountered is between 8 and 15 players; but the largest I've been in has had over 100.