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Magic Duels |OT| Magic The Hearthstonening [Update Support Ending]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
A few general tips for drafting:
- Try to stick to 2 colors if you can.
- Make sure most of your cards cost between 2 and 4 mana. You can have some stuff that costs less or more, but the majority should be in that range. If you have a hard time choosing between two cards you like a lot for your deck, err on the side of your mana curve.
- Decks in draft are 40 cards minimum. Try not to go over 40, since it reduces the chances of drawing your best cards.
- You generally want to play 17 or 18 lands and 23 or 22 non-lands, respectively. Of those, typically you want between 14 and 17 creatures.
- For non-creature cards, try to analyze how they affect the board state. Cards that help you come back from behind (like Rolling Thunder) are a lot more valuable than cards that help you stay ahead.
- Evasive creatures (flying, menace, trample, unblockable) are super-important in draft. The same is true of creature removal (Gideon's Reproach, Touch of the Void, Complete Disregard, Tightening Coils, etc.)
- The cards that you draft but aren't in your deck become your sideboard; you can edit your deck between each game and round however you like using those cards. For example, if you realize your opponent's deck has lots of enchantments, you might consider swapping in Felidar Cub so that you have a better matchup.
Imperfected
Member
The explanation of "programmer resources" for the card list has always seemed dubious to me, given there are cards that the AI has access to (ie, Felidar Sovereign) or that are programmed for use by the player and AI in campaign that are not in the pool.
It also begs the question: if it's simply a matter of not being able to program all the cards in time for the release, why aren't the "missing" cards still on a backburner list to be added later? There's no reason they couldn't add the missing Origins/Zendikar cards later if it was simply a matter of not being able to program them in time for release. Rather, it seems very much like an intentional and persisting omission.
It also begs the question: if it's simply a matter of not being able to program all the cards in time for the release, why aren't the "missing" cards still on a backburner list to be added later? There's no reason they couldn't add the missing Origins/Zendikar cards later if it was simply a matter of not being able to program them in time for release. Rather, it seems very much like an intentional and persisting omission.
Cards are omitted, not just because they're trickier to program, but also because they don't match the sort of format that Wizards wants for duels.
A card like The Great Aurora isn't worth taking the time to code when it's such a narrow ability and won't see any real play. That's a case where the programming issue fits.
Menawhile cards like the painlands are likely omitted because Wizards doesn't want the mana bases to be too good, doesn't want the user to deal with the clunkiness of deciding to tap for colorless or colored mana, and doesn't want the fell-bad moments when a new player accidentally taps a painland for colored mana and loses because of it.
Cards like Hangarback Walker, Ruination Guide and Dark Petition are omitted because they would make certain builds significantly stronger and more consistent, stifling the number of viable decks greatly.
Just like any other format, Wizards tries to develop duels in such a way that there's a decent variety of viable decks and nothing is too overbearing. Because matches are single-game that takes even more cultivation since a lot of deck balance comes from sideboard options.
A card like The Great Aurora isn't worth taking the time to code when it's such a narrow ability and won't see any real play. That's a case where the programming issue fits.
Menawhile cards like the painlands are likely omitted because Wizards doesn't want the mana bases to be too good, doesn't want the user to deal with the clunkiness of deciding to tap for colorless or colored mana, and doesn't want the fell-bad moments when a new player accidentally taps a painland for colored mana and loses because of it.
Cards like Hangarback Walker, Ruination Guide and Dark Petition are omitted because they would make certain builds significantly stronger and more consistent, stifling the number of viable decks greatly.
Just like any other format, Wizards tries to develop duels in such a way that there's a decent variety of viable decks and nothing is too overbearing. Because matches are single-game that takes even more cultivation since a lot of deck balance comes from sideboard options.
Weird. I've probably played around at least 3 AI matches on my iPad every day (and some days way more) since BFZ and today, apropos of no update or anything, the AI finally decided to start playing black rares. I'd never seen it cast a Smothering Abomination, Defiant Bloodlord, Sire of Stagnation, or Ob Nixilis before and today it cast a few in multiple games in a row.
My theory is that the BFZ CPU actually has several decks it's programmed to use, but the RNG is off and it always selects Roil Spout. I've also seen it occasionally use decks I've never seen, but only, like, 5% of the time. Maybe less.
---
Tried Two-Headed Giant for the first time today. My partner and I both played Turbo Fog (I know, we're terrible). He drew two Sphinx's Tutelages early; both got Solemn Offering'd immediately. I got mana screwed early (started with two Swamps, didn't draw lands for several turns) and didn't get any Tutelages.
Our opponents were playing B/W Lifegain and a mono-White enchantment deck. They took an early lead, but we managed to start slowing them down at ~12 life by chaining Fogs and Hydrolashes. I managed to get Nissa, Jace, Liliana, and Ob Nixilis on the field, and my partner got Kiora, and we defended them to the point where Ob managed to ult (which wasn't super effective, since our opponents were at ~45 life).
Finally, probably 35+ cards into my deck, I drew our first board clear: a Languish. We wiped the board with it alongside Kiora ult, but our opponents took it back with an awakened Planar Outburst (which we narrowly stopped from killing us with a quick Alchemist Vial). Jace flashback Languish managed to clear the board for us again, and a couple turns later Nissa ult was finally able to take down our weakened enemies.
The only Sphinx's Tutelage I drew was, like, 40 cards into my deck. So yeah, that sucked. But it was great to come back from behind with an unexpected win condition, and it was awesome that our opponents stuck around for the entire prolonged game.
I wanted to concede on turn 5 (when our second Sphinx's Tutelage got destroyed, and I was still sitting on two Swamps). Glad we didn't.
TL;DR: Double turbo fog 2HG ; lose early game hard, barely fending off death for several turns ; manage to get out 5 Planeswalkers, narrowly clear the board, still almost lose, and then finally claim victory using multiple Planeswalker ults. Entire game was awesome.
Can't wait for 2HG gold, lol.
So the reviews for this on steam are pretty bad. Are the reasons for the poor reviews still valid after the updates since release.
I enjoy playing hearthstone but have always felt I would like some more advanced mechanics like magic has. Somehow I had never heard about this game u til recently and it looks exactly like what I was looking for. I played extremely casual MTG a good 15 years ago so I am not means a hardcore player and am looking for a nice casual card game to play like I do hearthstone.
Anything g I should be aware of before I start playing?
I enjoy playing hearthstone but have always felt I would like some more advanced mechanics like magic has. Somehow I had never heard about this game u til recently and it looks exactly like what I was looking for. I played extremely casual MTG a good 15 years ago so I am not means a hardcore player and am looking for a nice casual card game to play like I do hearthstone.
Anything g I should be aware of before I start playing?
archnemesis
Member
It's a fun game despite all its flaws. There are still issues with bugs, poor UI, and missing/delayed content. Those are probably the main reasons for poor reviews.
No, not really. It's free to download and the single player campaign will help you relearn the mechanics. If you have played the game before then you should have no trouble jumping back in.
On the topic of bugs, the most egregious ones are all fixed on PC. There are a handful of card-specific ones, but they're infrequent and (for the most part) only apply to edge cases.
The game actually plays really well with a controller/gamepad, imo, so if you've got one of those then consider giving it a go!
As for notes to new players:
- The tutorials are a quick and easy way to score some packs. You can always access the tutorials under the Help menu.
- The Campaign is somewhat RNG. For some of the harder missions (like that one Lilianna mission...), it's entirely possible that the CPU will be dealt a hand that you just can't beat. So if you get your ass kicked a couple times on some of them, don't get discouraged! Just restart and try again.
- The only thing to spend gold on is getting boosters (and foiling your cards, but that's purely cosmetic), so spend away! You also can't get "excess" cards, so you're guaranteed to complete a set in a certain number of boosters (74 boosters for Origins, 80 for BFZ).
- Origins is generally considered to have a stronger set of cards that can be fit into more diverse decks, so probably go for that first. However, BFZ definitely has its bombs as well (Ulamog, Gideon, and Ob Nixilis among them).
Imperfected
Member
To be honest, I think most of the problems people are going to have with the game come from being familiar with the paper version of the game, and thus coming into it disappointed with features of Duels. (The decklist, both in terms of size and dubious balance decisions; even more dubious decisions like the Rarity Restriction; etc.)
The game's still pretty good as a "learner's tool"/introduction to Magic. The only major complaints I would have there are a sub-par interface in terms of responsiveness/feedback. Basic actions just don't feel "satisfying" in the way they do in Hearthstone, it seems to be wanting for a game designer who specializes in "game feel"/user experience.
That and the current batch of Expert AI decks may give you an unfair assessment of Magic as being the most boring game ever made. You can get around this by playing other humans or just hope that they make less-bad decisions when Oath of Gatewatch gets patched in whenever. Actually, they could fix it by just putting the pre-BfZ AI decks back into rotation, but I guess those weren't programmed to respond properly to BfZ cards*.
*Not that the current AI decks do, either. So many suicidal swings on Planewalkers due to dubious priority assignments. I don't think killing off that 4 Loyalty Kiora is worth leaving yourself open to a 12 damage swing when you've got 4 Life, AI.
TestOfTide
Banned
It took me a bit to come up with a good unique deck that takes advantage of BFZ cards, but I made a U/B deck a couple of weeks ago that managed to hold its own pretty damn well:
Creatures (23):
4x Faerie Miscreant
4x Thornbow Archer
1x Jace, Vyrns Prodigy
3x Jorubai Murk Lurker
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3x Fleshbag Marauder
3x Whirler Rogue
2x Smothering Abomination
1x Disciple of the Ring
1x Sire of Stagnation
Instants/Sorceries (16):
4x Bone Splinters
2x Scatter to the Winds
4x Spell Shrivel
4x Read the Bones
2x Languish
Enchantments (3):
3x Sphinx's Tutelage
Planeswalker (besides the Liliana and Jace):
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
Lands (23):
2x Sunken Hollow
2x Drowned Catacomb
3x Skyline Cascade
3x Mortuary Mine
1x Evolving Wilds
6x Island
6x Swamp
The Faeries are for card draw and having some low cost creatures to sacrifice.
The Archers are just there as low cost creatures to sacrifice.
Jace and DotR are just there for some extra control.
Jorubai is there as a low cost 2/4 that can help counteract the life loss from Bones and Ob Nixilis.
Whirler is there for some flying blockers as well as being 3 sacrificial creatures for only one 4 mana card.
Liliana and Smothering Abomination are there to get the most out of sacrificing creatures.
Ob and Read the bones are there for the card draw.
Sphinx's Tutulage is there to turn card draw into mill that reduces the odds of the opponent drawing more lands.
Sire of Stagnation is there for a little more mill and card draw.
Bone Splinters, Fleshbag, and Languish are there for creature removal.
The Winds and Shrivel are there for some good spell removal.
The win conditions are Sphinx, Ob, Stagnation, Abomination, and Liliana.
Creatures (23):
4x Faerie Miscreant
4x Thornbow Archer
1x Jace, Vyrns Prodigy
3x Jorubai Murk Lurker
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3x Fleshbag Marauder
3x Whirler Rogue
2x Smothering Abomination
1x Disciple of the Ring
1x Sire of Stagnation
Instants/Sorceries (16):
4x Bone Splinters
2x Scatter to the Winds
4x Spell Shrivel
4x Read the Bones
2x Languish
Enchantments (3):
3x Sphinx's Tutelage
Planeswalker (besides the Liliana and Jace):
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
Lands (23):
2x Sunken Hollow
2x Drowned Catacomb
3x Skyline Cascade
3x Mortuary Mine
1x Evolving Wilds
6x Island
6x Swamp
The Faeries are for card draw and having some low cost creatures to sacrifice.
The Archers are just there as low cost creatures to sacrifice.
Jace and DotR are just there for some extra control.
Jorubai is there as a low cost 2/4 that can help counteract the life loss from Bones and Ob Nixilis.
Whirler is there for some flying blockers as well as being 3 sacrificial creatures for only one 4 mana card.
Liliana and Smothering Abomination are there to get the most out of sacrificing creatures.
Ob and Read the bones are there for the card draw.
Sphinx's Tutulage is there to turn card draw into mill that reduces the odds of the opponent drawing more lands.
Sire of Stagnation is there for a little more mill and card draw.
Bone Splinters, Fleshbag, and Languish are there for creature removal.
The Winds and Shrivel are there for some good spell removal.
The win conditions are Sphinx, Ob, Stagnation, Abomination, and Liliana.
shawnoftheshred
Member
Anyone have an updated look at the meta right now? What decklists are doing well?
I've been sticking with my Wr weenie deck (with focus on value creatures/renown/burn) but literally the only card it gained from BFZ was the new Gideon.
I've been sticking with my Wr weenie deck (with focus on value creatures/renown/burn) but literally the only card it gained from BFZ was the new Gideon.
archnemesis
Member
I mostly face different types of ramp decks when I play online. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger is the most important card right now and there aren't that many good ways to deal with it. If only they had included Transgress the Mind, or some other targeted discard spell.
In Versus mode I'm currently using a black/green deck with a lot of removal and card draw. It used to also have the black one mana enchantment as a replacement for the two missing Evolutionary Leap.
Creatures (25)
2x Blisterpod
2x Carrier Thrall
4x Gatecreeper Vine
4x Elvish Visionary
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2x Smothering Abomination
2x Priest of the Blood Rite
2x Gilt-Leaf Winnower
2x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
Planeswalkers (1)
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
Instants/Sorceries (8)
4x Bone Splinters
4x Reave Soul
Enchantments (2)
2x Evolutionary Leap
Lands (24)
7x Swamp
4x Forest
2x Woodland Cemetery
3x Foundry of the Consuls
4x Golgari Guildgate
4x Evolving Wilds
Mana Curve
1 ******
2 ****************
3 *****
4 **
5 *****
6 **
In Versus mode I'm currently using a black/green deck with a lot of removal and card draw. It used to also have the black one mana enchantment as a replacement for the two missing Evolutionary Leap.
Creatures (25)
2x Blisterpod
2x Carrier Thrall
4x Gatecreeper Vine
4x Elvish Visionary
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2x Smothering Abomination
2x Priest of the Blood Rite
2x Gilt-Leaf Winnower
2x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
Planeswalkers (1)
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
Instants/Sorceries (8)
4x Bone Splinters
4x Reave Soul
Enchantments (2)
2x Evolutionary Leap
Lands (24)
7x Swamp
4x Forest
2x Woodland Cemetery
3x Foundry of the Consuls
4x Golgari Guildgate
4x Evolving Wilds
Mana Curve
1 ******
2 ****************
3 *****
4 **
5 *****
6 **
shawnoftheshred
Member
Thanks, I built this ramp deck that I found online and it seems pretty strong. Not sure if my Wr weenie renown + buffs deck is fast enough to take it down either.
Gruul Ramp
Creatures (16)
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Reclamation Sage
2 x Outland Colossus
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa
1 x Oblivion Sower
1 x Woodland Bellower
1 x Omnath, Locus of Rage
2 x Gaea's Revenge
1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells (21)
4 x Fiery Impulse
3 x Rolling Thunder
2 x Radiant Flames
4 x Nissa's Pilgrimage
2 x From Beyond
4 x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2 x Nissa's Renewal
Lands (23)
1 x Canopy Vista
2 x Cinder Glade
2 x Rootbound Crag
6 x Mountain
12 x Forest
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Have they started work once again with the PS4 version or is it still on hold?
SigmasonicX
Member
I always figured a way to help newer players play catch-up was to have their quests give bigger rewards (or just have them "roll" higher reward quests more often). These changes are pretty good overall, but at this rate, I'll probably have enough coins by the time the update hits to just buy everything in one shot.
archnemesis
Member
They're releasing two sets at the same time in April and getting all the new cards will probably be around 20k. I don't think I will afford more than a third.
platypotamus
Member
If they stay on top of their releases now, they'll be able to start releasing cards faster than I can actually collect them doing dailies.
They're removing some cards and replacing them with others: http://magic.wizards.com/en/article...al/magic-duels-starter-box-changes-2016-03-11
As an example that seems like a very positive change, Explosive Vegetation is replacing Mwonvuli Acid-Moss. Given how likely Acid-Moss was to lead to just horrible games, in the "learn to play Magic" product no less, I am not surprised by this in the slightest.
As an example that seems like a very positive change, Explosive Vegetation is replacing Mwonvuli Acid-Moss. Given how likely Acid-Moss was to lead to just horrible games, in the "learn to play Magic" product no less, I am not surprised by this in the slightest.
archnemesis
Member
Nope. There will be a major update for Steam/iOS in April. I wouldn't be surprised if they have canceled the PS4 port, since they only output new updates every three months or so.
If there's specific cards you're looking for, especially uncoommons and commons, stick to Origins. Otherwise, grab BFZ packs. The removal, in white especially, is a lot better in BFZ.
platypotamus
Member
Wow, no more perilous myrs or jagged-scar archers. Or Mwonvoli Acid Moss. That'll shake up the meta a bunch.
archnemesis
Member
Yep, they decided to remove some of the more powerful commons/uncommons. The meta would be a lot more interesting if they had included sideboard support.
Imperfected
Member
They seriously removed several of the cards that counter the crappy Blue/White template all their higher level AI decks are based on, without removing any of the obvious problem cards that enable that deck?
If they don't swap out the current crop of AI decks for something that's less than completely obnoxious to play against when you're doing some of the dumber dailies (fuck you I'm going to play an Archetype deck in PVP!), I'm done.
If they don't swap out the current crop of AI decks for something that's less than completely obnoxious to play against when you're doing some of the dumber dailies (fuck you I'm going to play an Archetype deck in PVP!), I'm done.
archnemesis
Member
Most of the decks I play have no issues beating the blue/white AI decks. For instance, the AI will happily bounce creatures with "when ~ comes into play" effects.
I agree that it is boring with the current limited deck variety.
I agree that it is boring with the current limited deck variety.
Imperfected
Member
They aren't hard to beat, no, they're just annoying. It's basically the most aggressively pissy little control deck you can build due to running max of Gideon's Reproach/Reprisal/Roil Spout/Sheer Drop/Planar Outburst.
You either roll over it with hardcore aggro or you consign yourself to sitting there grinding out the most tedious sort of game against an AI that's programmed to basically be purely obstructionist. That, or you abuse the fact that it's poorly programmed. (The AI will--consistently--swing in on a Planeswalker even it means leaving no blockers up to prevent lethal damage.)
It's a terrible gameplay experience and the fact it's been how they represent the game to newer players coming in trying to build up their decks for months now boggles my mind. How hard is it really just to throw together a couple of garbage Black/Red aggro decks to broaden the pool? For that matter, why did they just jettison all of the AI decks they already had before Battle for Zendikar was released, which actually had decent variety to them?
To me, it's just endemic of how poorly designed the game is across the board. It's such a simple and blatantly obvious thing that's core the experience for new players coming in (and something even experienced players may have to deal with due to some poor quests in the rotation). If they can't get this right, I just have no more faith to give.
archnemesis
Member
I'm fine with the occasional annoying deck as long as there is good variety. The biggest issue right now is the very infrequent updates. A simple quick fix would be to edit in the previous decks or just copy a handful of net decks that the players have created. Instead we are stuck playing against the same old decks for months.
AntiFacebook
Member
Why are you playing against AI?
archnemesis
Member
Playing against AI is faster, I can pause whenever I please, and it also allows for more varied decks. I would play more online if the matchmaking was faster and I got my gold whenever the opponent disconnected.
Shai-Tan
Banned
nice changes. perilous myr was annoyingly over represented back when I played.
I haven't played in a while because the game stopped working on my ipad for whatever reason (last year). Maybe if I reinstall it will have been patched and work again. Is the cards you have tied to your ios account or did I lose something by deleting the game?
archnemesis
Member
Reinstalling it should be fine, but take a screenshot of your current user ID and your collection just in case you lose something. My user ID was changed at some point, but that might have been a consequence of a support request.
Imperfected
Member
When my dailies include gems like "Win 4 Games with an Archetype Deck", "Counter 5 Spells", and "Put 15 Tokens onto the Battlefield", I'm not exactly keen to go do those in PVP.
Especially the first one. Hell no I'm not using one of the god-awful Deck Wizard decks against another human being. I don't even care about Rank, but even I have too much pride to be caught dead using the piles of jank that thing aggressively boxes you into.
archnemesis
Member
Thankfully, they have removed the awful Deck Wizard quests. Now it's mostly using spells/decks of certain colors and passive triggers.
LOL.
In other news: http://magic.wizards.com/en/article...al/magic-duels-starter-box-changes-2016-03-11 (Oh, I see it's already posted)
I don't get why they'd remove the cards instead of actually fixing the problem which is the whole sets for the expansions aren't there for the sake of "balance." I mean the previous Duels also had a problem with a few cards absolutely dominating or people using a certain deck (09/"Duels '11" being Elves) abuse. I don't get how changing these cards is suddenly gonna stop people from finding new cards to abuse in the "meta."