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[charlequin]

Which is why it makes perfect sense!

Yeah, no.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Nahiri was convinced to work with Bolas.

This, on the other hand, makes sense. Bolas' entire angle with subordinates is finding angry people with a chip on their shoulder and getting them to do stuff for him that doesn't actually interfere with their own personal petty issues. Nahiri's a pretty good candidate there.

I don't even mind Bolas all that much, but what the hell is the deal with the Raven Man?

Some dbag planeswalker that we'll get more info about once they actually get back to Liliana's plotline as she kills her third demon in Amonkhet.

 

[Firemind]

give it to Ral Zarek so Niv-Mizzet can leave Ravnica

I want to see Mizzet and Bolas fight

Spoiler

Did I just give Firemind a boner

Niv-Mizzet would never willingly fight Bolas. #notmylore

 

[Ashodin]

Oh, you think the third demon is on Amonkhet?

 

[charlequin]

Oh, you think the third demon is on Amonkhet?

Yeah, it's been a long while since they even touched on that plotline and demon three, Razaketh, seems visually and nomenclaturally like he could fit:

 

[Ashodin]

hmm yep, I see it. Probably right.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Some dude on MTGO told me I'm bad and suck for no reason (e.g. I hit an Emrakul on Aetherworks and then hardcast one). Then timed out because his counterspell deck didn't have enough ways to close the game out.

 

[Ashodin]

Some dude on MTGO told me I'm bad and suck for no reason (e.g. I hit an Emrakul on Aetherworks and then hardcast one). Then timed out because his counterspell deck didn't have enough ways to close the game out.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The constant "why is Pummeler spiking" talk is getting grating.

Here's why:

You play Pummeler, then you play Larger than Life (Sorcery, 1G, +4/+4 and Trample) to make it 5/5 and have trample, and then activate its energy ability 2 or 3 times and swing for 20 and hope nobody ever disrupts your 4 card combo. It plays Blossoming Defense to try and get around removal, but you basically just have to naturally draw Pummeler and all of the cards that support it because unlike that Atarka Red Battle Rage combo, the deck can't even really profitably attack without Voltaic Brawler or Pummeler.

If they draw every good card (e.g. they draw 3 lands, Voltaic Brawler, Blossoming Defense and Larger than Life) you can't beat it but in my experience, most of the time you get three for one'd by removal unless you have Blossoming Defense and you just have to randomly have those 4 cards.

People like swinging for 50 even if its obviously a total glass cannon.

 

[Ashodin]

The constant "why is Pummeler spiking" talk is getting grating.

Here's why:

You play Pummeler, then you play Larger than Life (Sorcery, 1G, +4/+4 and Trample) to make it 5/5 and have trample, and then activate its energy ability 2 or 3 times and swing for 20 and hope nobody ever disrupts your 4 card combo. It plays Blossoming Defense to try and get around removal, but you basically just have to naturally draw Pummeler and all of the cards that support it because unlike that Atarka Red Battle Rage combo, the deck can't even really profitably attack without Voltaic Brawler or Pummeler.

If they draw every good card (e.g. they draw 3 lands, Voltaic Brawler, Blossoming Defense and Larger than Life) you can't beat it but in my experience, most of the time you get three for one'd by removal unless you have Blossoming Defense and you just have to randomly have those 4 cards.

People like swinging for 50 even if its obviously a total glass cannon.

What I love is that it's possible to do in standard.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Chandra is like super good in ramp.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Chandra is like super good in ramp.

Got any sick tech? This is what I've been messing around with:

 

[Santiako]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";220039565]Got any sick tech? This is what I've been messing around with:
[/QUOTE]

I think you got the wrong Emrakul in there

 

[castlegar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";220039565]Got any sick tech? This is what I've been messing around with:

[/QUOTE]

Also been trying to figure out something with ramp. I tried to do a wastes/ruin in their wake thing, but I'm not sure how it turned out (land is definitely in need of a tune-up)

4 Attune with the Aether

4 Servant of the Conduit/Wolf Ramp Guy/Hedron Crawler
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Ruin in their Wake

4 Natural Connection
3 Tireless Tracker

3 Thought-Knot Seer

1 Conduit of Ruin
1 Oblivion Sower
4 World Breaker

2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

4 Aether Hub
2 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
4 Sanctum of Ugin
7 Forest
6 Wastes
2 Sea-Gate Wreckage

 

[Angry Grimace]

Deck: RG Grimace Delirium Ramp

//Lands
4 Aether Hub
3 Evolving Wilds
6 Forest
4 Game Trail
4 Mountain
1 Wastes

//Spells
4 Cathartic Reunion
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Vessel of Nascency

//Creatures
2 Emrakul, the Promised End
4 Gnarlwood Dryad
2 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
4 Servant of the Conduit
1 Tireless Tracker
3 World Breaker

//Sideboard
3 Crumble to Dust
2 Spatial Contortion
3 Kozilek's Return
1 Tireless Tracker
3 Natural State
2 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Nissa, Vital Force

Display deck statistics

The Crumble to Dust in the board is for fucking with people who like to get greedy. Trust me it puts people on crazy tilt

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

I find it mildly interesting that Kaladesh is the first set since Theros to have a one-word name.

Also, Mage-Ring Network is over $0.50 US. It's not on the rise, just thought it was kinda neat... Maybe worth pulling them out of your bulk if that's your thing.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Magic+Origins/Mage-Ring+Network#paper

 

[Santiako]

Let's try some predictions for PT Honolulu:


1. Number of Smuggler's Copter in the Top 8:

2. Breakout Card from Kaladesh:

3. Flop Card from Kaladesh:

4. Most played colour in the Top 8:

5. Most played card in the Top 8 (non basic-non copter):

6. Most played Gearhulk in the Top 8:

Bonus: Winning deck colour(s):

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

27
Chandra
Skysovereign
Red
Cinder Glade
TorrentialVerdorous Gearhulk, forgot the green one existed.
RUG

 

[Angry Grimace]

There's always that one guy in the Top 8 who plays counterspells and gives false hope to an entire segment of spikes that think they're smarter than their opponents.

 

[duxstar]

There's always that one guy in the Top 8 who plays counterspells and gives false hope to an entire segment of spikes that think they're smarter than their opponents.

Seth manfield with that Narset deck , god that deck was TERRIBLE

 

[The Technomancer]

Let's try some predictions for PT Honolulu:


1. Number of Smuggler's Copter in the Top 8:

2. Breakout Card from Kaladesh:

3. Flop Card from Kaladesh:

4. Most played colour in the Top 8:

5. Most played card in the Top 8 (non basic-non copter):

6. Most played Gearhulk in the Top 8:

Bonus: Winning deck colour(s):

1.)24

2.) Cloudblazer

3.) Aetherwork Marvel

4.) Green

5.) Verdurous Gearhulk

6.) Verdurous Gearhulk

BONUS: Green/White

 

[Santiako]

I'll do my own:

1. 24

2. Deadlock Trap

3. Metallurgic Summonings

4. Green

5. Aether Hub

6. Verdurous

Bonus: Grixis

 

[bigkrev]

Let's try some predictions for PT Honolulu:


1. Number of Smuggler's Copter in the Top 8:

2. Breakout Card from Kaladesh:

3. Flop Card from Kaladesh:

4. Most played colour in the Top 8:

5. Most played card in the Top 8 (non basic-non copter):

6. Most played Gearhulk in the Top 8:

Bonus: Winning deck colour(s):

1. 12

2. Servant of the Conduit

3. Planeswalkers. There will not be a single T8 deck with a Kaladesh walker

4. Green

5. Elder Deep-Fiend

6. Green

Bonus: RUG

 

[Firemind]

1.)24

2.) Cloudblazer

3.) Aetherwork Marvel

4.) Green

5.) Verdurous Gearhulk

6.) Verdurous Gearhulk

BONUS: Green/White

Mono Green Smuggler's Copter?

 

[Ashodin]

replies in italics


1. Number of Smuggler's Copter in the Top 8:

48

2. Breakout Card from Kaladesh:

Metallurgic Summonings

3. Flop Card from Kaladesh:

Chandra, Torch of Defiance

4. Most played colour in the Top 8:

White

5. Most played card in the Top 8 (non basic-non copter):

Aether Hub

6. Most played Gearhulk in the Top 8:

Verdurous Gearhulk

Bonus: Winning deck colour(s):

RB (I expect it to upset a lot of people's expectations, it's the better of the two Smug Copter decks)

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

replies in italics


1. Number of Smuggler's Copter in the Top 8:

48

Bonus: Winning deck colour(s):

RB (I expect it to upset a lot of people's expectations, it's the better of the two Smug Copter decks)

48 by 4 does not compute with a max 32.

Yeah RB has always been the better vehicle deck that much has been apparent since the MODO beta.

 

[The Technomancer]

Mono Green Smuggler's Copter?

I'm hedging my bets, I figure at least a few of those predictions will be true even if they're contradictory

 

[Ashodin]

48 by 4 does not compute with a max 32.

Yeah RB has always been the better vehicle deck that much has been apparent since the MODO beta.

tee hee I just wrote a random number

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I still think there's a super strong bant midrange shell but no one has found the right mix yet since the meta is too unstable for it yet.

 

[charlequin]

Does anyone know where to conveniently get Top 8 prevalence stats for past PTs? I'm curious what strong/dominant cards looked like in previous rotations.

 

[Matriox]

http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/246487

Don't have a ton of money for a new deck but I think this should fair well enough for what I've seen.. Any glaring omissions? Planning on fnm and regionals. This is basically what I ran before rotation lol.

Edit: fixed broken url

Does anyone know where to conveniently get Top 8 prevalence stats for past PTs? I'm curious what strong/dominant cards looked like in previous rotations.

Mtgtop8.com should have them if you remember what the dates were, otherwise that's all I've got.

 

[Yeef]

1. Number of Smuggler's Copter in the Top 8: 16

2. Breakout Card from Kaladesh: Harnessed Lightning

3. Flop Card from Kaladesh: Electrostatic Pummeler

4. Most played colour in the Top 8: Red

5. Most played card in the Top 8 (non basic-non copter): Harnessed Lightning (Aether Hub if we want to include lands).

6. Most played Gearhulk in the Top 8: Verdorous

Bonus: Winning deck colour(s): RGx

 

[Ashodin]

Really? Red? I seriously doubt that.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Aether Hub is a good call it's a 4 of in every deck guaranteed.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Red was in 7/8 decks in the SCG Open finals, so I don't see how that guess is such a shock.

 

[Ashodin]

Red was in 7/8 decks in the SCG Open finals, so I don't see how that guess is such a shock.

I think the pros will buck the trend.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I think the pros will buck the trend.

the pros thought everyone would bring Bant CoCo and came up with the durdliest decks I've seen in quite some time and because of that Owen lost to BW control of all things. They all think they are smarter than everyone else for some reason.

 

[Ashodin]

the pros thought everyone would bring Bant CoCo and came up with the durdliest decks I've seen in quite some time and because of that Owen lost to BW control of all things.

that shit was funny

In fact I always think the pro tour will be built to take down what the current meta is instead of actually playing the meta

So for that one instance it's all a bunch of random ass decks instead of just all Bant CoCo because WotC probably told the pros "if you show up with Bant CoCo except for X player, you won't get invited to the next PT."

 

[Yeef]

that shit was funny

In fact I always think the pro tour will be built to take down what the current meta is instead of actually playing the meta

So for that one instance it's all a bunch of random ass decks instead of just all Bant CoCo because WotC probably told the pros "if you show up with Bant CoCo except for X player, you won't get invited to the next PT."

Eh. The pros do a lot of testing; especially the big teams. They're always going to build to beat the meta. The thing is, most teams assume that the other big teams will end up in the same place as them, but there's a huge chunk of people at the pro tour that aren't part of the big teams. A lot of those people are likely to be playing the decks that have proven successful, since they don't have the time or resources to test like the big teams do. Making sure your deck can beat the known meta and the expected meta is a big part of the preparation, I'd imagine.

 

[keeblerdrow]

the pros thought everyone would bring Bant CoCo and came up with the durdliest decks I've seen in quite some time and because of that Owen lost to BW control of all things. They all think they are smarter than everyone else for some reason.

To be fair, a lot of the un-teamed people that would have shown up with Bant CoCo probably had visa problems or decided not to even bother when WotC offered them all invites to PT Dublin instead. Basically, the schmucks the pro teams were trying to prey on didn't show up in numbers.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Eh. The pros do a lot of testing; especially the big teams. They're always going to build to beat the meta. The thing is, most teams assume that the other big teams will end up in the same place as them, but there's a huge chunk of people at the pro tour that aren't part of the big teams. A lot of those people are likely to be playing the decks that have proven successful, since they don't have the time or resources to test like the big teams do. Making sure your deck can beat the known meta and the expected meta is a big part of the preparation, I'd imagine.

Then why didn't any of them play white humans? Decent CoCo matchup and beats every single variation of the turbo emrakul decks.

Draft chaff Eldrazi players where also the only people who seemingly set out to beat the mirror. Everyone else though they were being cute with turn 1 chalice when that never mattered if you go bigger than them and tap down their shit.

 

[Ashodin]

eh 2 spoopy 4 me

I think White Humans was like the type of deck people were too skurred to play

 

["God's Beard!"]

Minor updates, streamlining as I find out what cards I want to see the most every game:

I think there's a lot to like with Ulvenwald Hydra and World Breaker this format. Both stop Smuggler's Copter and Skysovereign in their tracks which is the obvious first glance. between the nonbasic lands, hydras to fetch them and the eldrazi I'm maining a virtual 14 naturalizes in the artifact block.

Hydra fetching does some cool stuff. You can fetch a clone off the Mirrorpool if you're running low of resources or keep the chain going with Sanctums if you have more plays. More interestingly, perhaps, is that you can pump up Harnessed Lightning or refresh a Servant by fetching an Aether Hub.

Fundamentally, I think the deck is very similar to Yuuki Ichikawa's Magic Origins RG Ramp deck. Lots of planeswalkers and some big creatures that generate card advantage. I also think Ulvenwald Captive is an underrated card right now. A mana dork that's a relevant mid-game threat is a big deal for an archetype historically prone to awkward draws.

 

[Mega Spooky]

Why isn't anyone playing Authority of the Consuls? It seems crazy good for one white.

 

[Ashodin]

Why isn't anyone playing Authority of the Consuls? It seems crazy good for one white.

IT's in my sideboard.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Why isn't anyone playing Authority of the Consuls? It seems crazy good for one white.

it's an oddly aggressive card, it doesn't work against Fleetwheel Cruiser, it's horrendous in multiples.

 

[Firemind]

Red was in 7/8 decks in the SCG Open finals, so I don't see how that guess is such a shock.

I mean it's an scg open finals

 

["God's Beard!"]

I forgot to mention it before when I was testing the limited format, but this is my favorite combo at common and I hope it shows up in the draft at the PT:

 

[SigmasonicX]

LSV's overview of decks to expect in the Pro Tour. This points toward why I think it's odd to discount red as a likely candidate for most-played color in the top 8, because it's a big part of not just aggressive archetypes but also Emerge. You have Depala and Veteran Motorist for vehicles, you have Fiery Temper and several others for madness, Unlicensed Disintegration is one of the best removal cards in the format, Kozilek's Return is a core piece of most Eldrazi decks along with red discard outlets, and Harnessed Lightning is a general all-star.

M-Files Kaladesh part 1
* Trusty Companion having "can't attack alone" instead of "can't attack or block alone" seems to be a consistent thing for white going forward, perhaps to differentiate it from red's version.
* They noticed the potential of Wispweaver Angel to go infinite with another copy of itself and a third card that cares about that, but they thought it would be fine at 5+ mana.
* Toolcraft Exemplar originally got a +1/+1 counter every time it was tapped if you controlled an artifact (still at W), but it would get out of control quickly.
* Fumigate originally exiled all creatures with converted mana cost 2 or less and gained you that much life for 2WW, but Last Breath and similar effects are no longer considered to be in white's color pie. That is to say, it no longer punishes having small creatures, which I always thought was an odd fit for white anyway. Also, at that time, the back of double faced cards still had CMC of 0, so this was explicitly meant to hose those.
* With Tezzeret's Ambition, they talk as though they changed the mana cost from 3UU to 4U to make it not strictly worse than Jace's Ingenuity, but they didn't actually do that.
* With Lost Legacy, Melissa DeTora was pretty insistent that people would think it was terrible, for the reasons people think it is.
* Cathartic Reunion was originally a 3R instant with the same effect, that was brought down to 2R, and then to 1R as a sorcery. When it was at 2R, Ken Nagle suggested that the card add red mana to your pool, and while that didn't happen, that shows that's one variant of this effect that they're considering.
* From Arborback Stomper's section, they deliberately made sure there were a lot of appealing uncommons that were powerful by themselves in any context. This is good for both new and returning players.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Never understood why lost legacy was supposed to be bad. If you want discard there are other option lost legacy is to destroy combo / control decks with limited win conditions.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Random thoughts:

They should have given Trusty Companion "Trusty Companion only can attack in a band." But then not give it banding because banding is obsolete.

The version of Grixis Emerge that hit Top 8 at the SCG tournament has the worst mana I've seen in a Standard deck in a long time. If they don't fix it that deck is going nowhere.

The Metalwork Colossus deck will show up, go off on camera and people will momentarily spike the card.

One dude playing Torrential Gearhulk Control will perform well and lead to people griefing with it, despite losing to Copters, on MTGO and FNM.