paragonpro
Banned
They have a point, performance has becoming an increasingly important part of gaming. And they are no longer acting in some niche videogame thing, as games have become one of the biggest entertainment mediums in the world.
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Major VIdeogame Voice Actors Union Considers Strike With #PreformanceMatters Campaign
- Thread starter Mushroomer25
- Start date
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
More power to them if they get everything they want. I just know I'd rather hire the hungry folk that will do just as good a job, and ask for less.
I'm probably alone in this, but I'm getting tired of hearing the same 5-6 voice actors in everything, from my daughters cartoons to my games. It's like they don't care they have so many different characters sound exactly the same.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
Not a bad thing. I tend to have subtitles on and read the dialog before the actors finish their lines and skip to the next line.
There is definitely a problem with how limited the pool is, but that can also be contributed to the studios from cartoons, anime and games type casting, seeking out one specific voice and nabbing that voice actor for that one specific role. This is why you'll often hear the same voices over, and over again like Troy Baker and Nolan North. Or Rob Paulsen in everything from the 80's through 90's.
IoCaster
Member
Sounds great. Make those AAA console devs/pubs bleed for all I care. I absolutely despise this inexorable push to voiced protag and shitty VA in general throughout the industry. Fuck those self indulgent, talentless D-Bag devs and make them pay for the crap dialogue, shitty narrative and execrable plots they've foisted on gamers for years now. Make them cough up blood and stop this endless downward spiral of craptastic game design. I couldn't care less since I don't play AAA console shit and I hope that this would result in less VA crap and more gameplay focused design going forward. Thanks.
Like it or not, they also are part of a media venture that brings in hundreds of millions to billions in revenue. Put in that context, and in the context that the commodity is centered around their performance, its not outrageous.
Sports and Hollywood is the least of my concerns about salaries, when those industires bring in insane amounts of revenue. They bring in huge bucks selling a very reasonable priced commodity.
If you want something to be pissed about, be pissed that 45/50 of the higests paid state officials in the States are fucking college football coaches for public universities. Probably not insane for their respective colleges, but it makes taxpayer support on the State level questionable.
I hope the voice actors find some success with this. Their ask doesn't seem unreasonable. The vocal stress thing is real (it is not unheard of for vocalists in metal bands to have to stop due to polyps/permanent damage from all the screaming - I imagine they do it for less time overall than some VAs do, too).
Regardless of how people may feel like the programmers and other people in the industry should get better treatment, they haven't unionized to fight for it, making it a moot point. Unless they are able to come together and negotiate better terms with group action as leverage, most employers won't feel any need to act on it. That's something the software people have to do for themselves - but they have to take that risk, and it seems not enough of them are willing to do it.
It's unfair to say that, just because people in one sector have not been able to organize for leverage, a group of people who have shouldn't try to better their situation.
Regardless of how people may feel like the programmers and other people in the industry should get better treatment, they haven't unionized to fight for it, making it a moot point. Unless they are able to come together and negotiate better terms with group action as leverage, most employers won't feel any need to act on it. That's something the software people have to do for themselves - but they have to take that risk, and it seems not enough of them are willing to do it.
It's unfair to say that, just because people in one sector have not been able to organize for leverage, a group of people who have shouldn't try to better their situation.
They didn't co-opt anything, the hashtag has actually been around for years.
hodayathink
Member
Again, that hashtag existed before BLM came about. The naming is arguably unfortunate, but not derivative.
Last Hearth
Member
All this will do is lead to most future games having no name non-SAG members doing the VOs.
Make a new tag.
Whoa there.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Yes, I'm not sure about the costs for voice acting either. I'm sort of knowledgeable on the programming and design side though.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Supporting Phil Lamarr because he's been in the game for years.
cartman414
Member
Pretty great article from one who's moved from one side to the other:
http://frydawolff.com/2015/09/23/sag-aftra-interactive-media-agreement-aka-the-games-contract/
http://frydawolff.com/2015/09/23/sag-aftra-interactive-media-agreement-aka-the-games-contract/
A post from Wil Wheaton.
This is why I support a SAG-AFTRA strike authorization for video games — and it isn’t about money.
http://wilwheaton.net/2015/09/this-...tion-for-video-games-and-it-isnt-about-money/
Far more at the link but I wanted to emphasize his part on vocal stress and how the industry doesn't even care about VA's very much.
This is why I support a SAG-AFTRA strike authorization for video games — and it isn’t about money.
http://wilwheaton.net/2015/09/this-...tion-for-video-games-and-it-isnt-about-money/
I’ve made you a sample of a few lines from a military game I made up, to help you get started:
You’re going to do each of those three times, sometimes four times. You’re also going to do this for three more hours. Don’t worry, you can take a couple of short breaks — and you’ll need them — to drink some more of that tea you’re getting sick of.
If you’ve done this as I asked, it’s now six or seven hours after you started. Don’t talk at all for the rest of the day, and don’t make any plans to go audition for any other voice work for the rest of the week, because your voice is wrecked. Don’t go to any kind of day job that requires you to talk with anyone, either, because you’re not going to be able to do that. Oh, and over years and years of this, it’s going to build up into serious and permanent damage … and then you’re not going to be able to work with your voice anymore.
Far more at the link but I wanted to emphasize his part on vocal stress and how the industry doesn't even care about VA's very much.
ShaggsMagoo
Member
Also, everybody in this thread needs to remember that these are ongoing negotiations. Some of the requests might have been inserted just to be used as a chip to be negotiated out.
Teletraan1
Banned
And with what that poster is suggesting that $80 USD game will be closer to $100 CDN here.
empathy is just something some people lack. They have no mental capability of seeing anything beyond their own perception
Its hard to argue that today's games feature a lot of voice acting, and well done voice acting helps shape the characters and the experience. The deserve to be compensated for their work.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
the_batman
Banned
lol, that has got to be for Metal Gear Online.
Says you. You'd be surprised just how many people don't give a shit about JP voices, it's a much, much bigger crowd than the hardcore jrpg crowd likes to make people think. They wouldn't do English voices if their fanbase as a whole hated them, just like anime dubs wouldn't still exist if people actually hated dubs as much as the hardcore "fans" try to make people think.
In the modern gaming landscape, VAs aren't as replaceable as people think, particularly if it's a recurring role.
Auto-Reply
Member
If they manage to get more out of it, more power to them. Personally I don't really care that much and I'm a fan of terrible voice acting (to a degree) as it also can make games more fun.
The only voice actor I ever cared about was Mark Hamil as Joker... and Jenifer Hale as Shepard.
The only voice actor I ever cared about was Mark Hamil as Joker... and Jenifer Hale as Shepard.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
Good luck to all involved: they make our pastime a journey rather than just a shoddy adventure.
Also, I thought preformance was some new type of buzz phrase for a while there...lol.
Also, I thought preformance was some new type of buzz phrase for a while there...lol.
There's so much sad truth to this that I can even agree to. :/
Star Ocean: The Last Hope being the worst offender of me quickly changing to the Japanese language just because of how bad the English voice acting was.
CielTynave
Member
This is definitely true for me, if I ever play a game with a dub so awful that I can't stand it (still haven't seen one that bad yet) then I'd sooner turn the voices off than switch to the JP voices. The only exception was Tales of Symphonia on PS3, and that was because I didn't want to have to sit through completely silent skits that had no manual advance for the text in them.
Bad voice direction. There are some Japanese producers that want their English voice cast to sound closer to the JP voice cast not realizing how different the English language is and how different our mannerisms and dialogue are compared to theirs. The voice cast for Last Hope was actually really good and really well known as some of the best, but the direction ruined that.
Looking it up, Jonathon Klein was the voice director and his previous works are actually pretty good so it's likely that the JP studio got involved.
If studios started getting voice artists that can't act you'll have even worse dubs. Also a game that isn't dubbed in the native language it's being localized in is like sending it to die. Dual audio is preferred by most, but JP audio only kills the game and makes it niche to the nth degree only getting the hardest of core crowd.
Dimentionalist
Member
The only thing that worries me about a potential shift to non-union work is the recent surge in production companies pulling non-union "voice talent" with minimal acting experience from anime conventions and internet fan projects. I'm not sure if this practice is due to an influx of previously non-union people joining SAG or a if it's just a method of diversifying the talent pool, but I'm finding the performances of these new hires to be... not good (and that's putting it lightly). Plenty of great actors are willing to do non-union work, but I'm worried that the above hiring practice is indicative of things to come. You need to make sure you're hiring actual actors. A lot of my favorite games are narrative driven, and nothing sucks you out of a story like voice acting that isn't up to par.
charlequin
Banned
There are, being generous, maybe ten thousand people in the US who care about Japanese VA, or who would consider a lacking English track a neutral or positive factor in a game. When your projects are budgeted to sell 20,000 copies in the US this group will make up a solid chunk of your audience, but Atlus (much less anyone who releases actual general-audience titles) sells to a much larger group than that.
This does a great job both of contextualizing the issues with SAG-AFTRA's proposal (I think he's probably right that a scale hike would be a better ask than residuals) and establishing that there are a bunch of quality-of-life issues that desperately need an improved contract.
Actually I've found a lot of new talent hired are much better than actual actors and are not credited enough for their work, especially by well known actors. I couldn't stress this enough, they actually do a very incredible job. If I scowl through the list of names now I could probably point out a lot of them. (However I can point out a lot of these actors from animes though, not video games where most people's roles are at a minimal of lines.)
Personally I do think a lot of well established actors feel threatened by this, but I've seen actors at conventions given some of these people cold shoulders because they felt because they we're more experienced as actual actors they are superior/better.
Not to derail from the topic or anything, but I'm sort of hoping there is a strike for the sole purpose of new talent being found during this time. I've met a lot of people with a lot of talent who could really use this strike as their big break and manage to get a few jobs. :/
Yea that seems more than fair. As games start getting more advanced these issues will only get worse.
EDIT: Did I miss the part where the VOs were asking for a pay raise? Residuals is likely a bargaining chip and probably won't happen. So I don't get where all the "greed" talk is coming from.
EDIT: Did I miss the part where the VOs were asking for a pay raise? Residuals is likely a bargaining chip and probably won't happen. So I don't get where all the "greed" talk is coming from.
hodayathink
Member
I think (but I'm not sure) both a pay raise and residuals have been mentioned as being in the proposals, but residuals do seem like the type of thing that could be negotiated away if both sides actually came to the table and started negotiations in good faith (which the Wheaton post makes it seem like the games industry isn't really doing).
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yelling is hell on your vocal cords, and it takes skill to project your voice.
Romars202129
Member
You guys... are not going to like what happens next...
I'm just imagining the whole industry goes scab.
I'm just imagining the whole industry goes scab.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
What, you mean the strike that isn't happening?
Its a good first step for the games industry if the voice talent can be properly compensated. Its a shame the developers don't do this, but the games industry exploits young programmers who are willing to kill themselves for the job without proper compensation because they are young and passionate. So unionizing will never happen for the people who need it the most.
There are dozens of us
Candescence
Member
Yeah, game devs in general need to unionize. Problem is, the big publishers know there's plenty of bright-eyed college grads who have no idea what they're getting into who can replace anyone who does, which is bullshit, really.
Just saw this on bbc's website.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34474234
95% of the guild/union approved to strike if need be. I agree with most of their complaints, except for demanding royalties as they are not a deciding factor for someone buying a game. If they push the royalties part then I can see developers just using in house employees to do the roles instead.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34474234
95% of the guild/union approved to strike if need be. I agree with most of their complaints, except for demanding royalties as they are not a deciding factor for someone buying a game. If they push the royalties part then I can see developers just using in house employees to do the roles instead.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm all for Unions but I never bought a game because of a Voice Actor, while I watched many a film for an actor or actress.
Exactly..
UncleSporky
Member
That's something the union will have to consider when they think about striking, that's all. Doesn't mean they shouldn't, or don't deserve better.
I've totally bought games for certain directors or artists and what have you.
Who knows what kinds of opportunities a union reform could bring for aspiring actors.