MadchesterManc
Member
Series S owners ragging on casual gamers when they themselves bought a console designed for casual gamers is peak GAF
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"MANY developers have been sitting in meetings for the past year desperately trying to get Series S launch requirements dropped"
- Thread starter Tiago Rodrigues
- Start date
bluecowboys
Banned
This is such a load bull that I don't even know where to begin. Developers have been supporting low end PC specs for a while now. So how is the Series S a problem? Second, what about the PS4 and Xbox one? New games are still getting released on those platforms. Hell, the new God of war game is going to be on the PS4. How is the Series S holding anything back? Drop the PS4 and Xbox one and then you can talk.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
We really know it's brand loyalty defense more so than owning. If it were Sony that had this setup, 'opinions' would change, on both sides more than likely.
Klosshufvud
Member
So then we agree that GoWR is being held back by PS4? Because the other dude implied otherwise.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yes. But that also doesn't dictate the quality of the game.
It's not mutually exclusive. With that said as well, some devs are better than others (talent, support, resources, etc) when it comes to the challenges of cross-gen or min spec boxes.
For example, none of us were expecting HFW to look as good as it did, especially compared to the PS4 version with textures, lighting, geometry and shaders.
Third parties tend to struggle a little more than first party.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
According to a recent tweet MS is forcing it to be supported hence these complaining tweets.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Yes It looks like what it is.
AncientOrigin
Member
Doesn’t matter if it’s a no name studio that says that.Everyone on this forum knows development for a underpowered hardware will hold everyone else back
Klosshufvud
Member
I get that. I just find it rich how the thread creator makes a thread to shit on Series S but then turns around and touts GoWR as a PS5 showcase. Sort of hypocritical no? I really don't care about current-gen/cross-gen nonsense. Personally I don't even believe hardware is the real bottleneck of development anymore. Other factors like you mentioned are. A game like RDR2 is going to be exceptionally rare even on modern consoles due to how complex and expensive it is to create.
Yeah, it's about the definition of casual but yeah, we have derailed it enough.
Then it is a problem of optimization not that "Series S is bottleneck"
PS3 was not weak despite multiplat games generally running worse than on X360. It was just a fact that making game on PS3 required more work and many studios were not willing to do that. (and no, I'm not trying to imply that Series S is similar to PS3)
My point is. You can't complain that XYZ console is bottleneck without at least trying to use everything at your disposal to solve the problem of a particular platform.
I have been sitting in a lot of meetings to get developers done the things they get paid for. Maybe you should get better developers? Often you are facing people doing trash talk without any direction until management sets a frame. Look at God of War on PlayStation 4 or Forza Horizon 5 on Xbox One S. The Xbox Series S discussion is ridiculous. The design of the small machine is equivalent to its bigger brother and competitors, it is just designed to fire out fewer pixels. Of course, 1440p 60fps with ray tracing is unachievable considering that not even the big consoles can do it.
Anyway, we will get to the point by the midgen refresh where PS5 and XsX are going to be 1440p 60fps and the S Series is going to be a 900p 60fps machine. That is becoming more and more apparent and was to be expected. Get decent tools and developers who know what they are doing.
Anyway, we will get to the point by the midgen refresh where PS5 and XsX are going to be 1440p 60fps and the S Series is going to be a 900p 60fps machine. That is becoming more and more apparent and was to be expected. Get decent tools and developers who know what they are doing.
How would we know that without seeing what PS5 only God of War looks like in comparison to a cross gen GOW?
bender
What time is it?
Developers can make PS5 only titles if they choose. The same isn't true of the Series X.
Boy bawang
Member
I don't have either console but I'm calling bullshit here. Between the inevitable diminishing returns in visuals and the scalability of modern engines and tools, there's not much reason for series S to gimp the games for the upcoming 5-6 years, especially as it has the same CPU.
Oh yeah 100% being held back.
eastcoastkody
Member
most PC gamers i know are running around with a potato of a PC......that doesn't seem to stop devs
Swift_Star
Banned
Nobody cares about fps beside forum dwellers
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
They want MS to pay for their GP deals but only put the game on machines a fraction of their base uses, while eating the massive PR cost of pissing off all the people they sold a XSS to. And yes, this dev had his games on GP, and yes they all suck. But he still thinks it's appropriate for MS to do this and destroy all the trust they built with their customers this gen because he's an entitled prick who can't optimize mobile-tier games and thinks it's appropriate to trash talk a business partner on twitter instead.
chromhound
Gold Member
Dust-by-Monday
Member
Series S is stupid and I don’t care if I get banned for saying it
bender
What time is it?
Cool. I'm not sure what that has to do with my statement.
Please most games are still crossgen. Dont give me that xss holding it back nonsense. Unless your game is next gen only and pushing some crazy effects that is crippling the sx and ps5, xss is not holding anything back. Pretty much all xss games are lower res/framerate the effects and assets are pretty much the same looking.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol omg. Thats lierally his entire point. MS is FORCING him to make games for it.
Gaf has disappointed me today. First the PS4 cross gen comparisons despite the guy specifically talking about next gen only games and now this. Come on.
Kenpachii
Member
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
It would have been ideal for Series S to have at least 12GB of RAM instead of 10GB. As it stands, though, it can run games like DOOM Eternal at 120fps, and have decent renditions of stuff like FS2020 and FH5. I’m sure it will be fine in the long run.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Imagine if all devs that complained did this.
The S requirement would drop like a rock, I wager.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
And 6TF's...
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Same rocksteady dev admitted he wasn’t working on Gotham Knights and knew nothing of the real reason why it ran at 30fps?
Same dev who isn’t going to comment on why Gotham Knights struggles to hit 60fps consistently on a 3090?
MS cut out support for a key component of their next gen sales and incur costs to replace the sold XSS consoles just because a handful of developers - most with no experience of developing on the Series S - complained?
ResilientBanana
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It's okay bby boi, we are all speaking in what if hypotheticals of extremes. Just as "don't like it, don't make shit for it" attitudes. Not every bit of feedback needs to be praise of a 4TF box going into 2023 and beyond.
March Climber
Member
We discussed this months ago and I was one of the people stating that Series S is a graphical bridge between One X and Series X, that honestly should have never existed. Time will tell if that statement holds true.
Also,
SlimySnake
is right.
Also,
SlimySnake
is right.
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kyliethicc
Member
Oh dont worry.
The lead programmer of id software said the sbox sucks too. And then another programmer from id software joined in.
Slicker than your average
Banned
Kinda amazing theyre planning on releasing mid gen upgrades with the series s as the baseline. Thanks Phil
squarealex
Member
Nice, keep it up MS. That's more exclusive games for PlayStation / PC.Tweets deleted.
Print sceen of them:
Ian Maclure, VFX Artist for Bossa Studios has admitted that this is happening more and more, specially as games are going to be more and more next-gen only.
Will Series S hold back multiplatform games? How can this issue even be sorted out?
More likely they never even entertained the idea of using these additional technologies to get the best out of XSS. I find it quite telling that none of these "Devs" ever mention disappointment with gains made from implementing SFS, VRS2.0, FSR2.0 and Mesh Shaders (this not so much, as no-one has shown anything meaningful yet).
All we get is complaints about a lower powered GPU and less memory/split memory. This sounds more like their light touch porting effort from their lead platform is running into performance issues as their code only makes use of hardware features found present in the lead platform.
TheGodfather07
Member
I suppose the series s ain't bad if you don't mind 480p 30fps in future current gen only games.
And I’m responding to your hypotheticals, bby boi
Definitely I’m shocked MS went with 4TF and smaller RAM than the One X. It was a short sighted decision and they really should have at least matched the One X for VRAM and GPU power. There’s sufficient scope to criticize these decisions. But it’ll have to last the entire gen.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And thus it's not unheard of that some in the development industry don't like it.
I think the grumbles are more than those who are willing to come out and speak. Knowing how devs always want more ram/power and would rather have single spec workloads under lower extraction layers than PC scalability or "brute force" wrappers.
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DevilHunterX0
Member
Maybe Microsoft should keep buying developers and publishers till there is no one left to complain about the Series S?
CeeJay
Member
This is totally incorrect, Series S is not a bridge between One X and Series X was never marketed as that and looking at the specs it doesn't look anything like that either. One X was a beefed up 4K Xbox One, higher res but last gen hardware. Series S doesn't sit between the two at all.We discussed this months ago and I was one of the people stating that Series S is a graphical bridge between One X and Series X, that honestly should have never existed. Time will tell if that statement holds true.
Also,
One S low spec last gen
One X high spec last gen
Series S low spec current gen
Series X high spec current gen
Two separate specs in two separate gens and if the One X was still for sale it would be a higher price than Series S too.
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