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Marathon approaching 15k CCU low (sponsored by coachmcguirk91 - still having a blast)

Another by far all time low hit today.


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I said 1 month ago it had 6 months left before either it's closed or Bungie get significant layoffs or both, I'm now thinking it may be sooner. What in the actual world is going on at Bungie? If they're not in full on panic mode to try to save this then I don't know what to say.

One thing is for sure that Sony are not messing around this generation with dead wood and that's exactly what Bungie is currently.
 
Another by far all time low hit today.


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I feel if it was a complete disaster it would be more respectable then this kind of wet sloppy fart that it has produced. like there's 1000s of hardcore fans but it's also a resounding failure at this point being that it's from bungie and it's not a cheaply produced game and of course its a GaaS model, meaning it has to survive and constantly worked on, it can't just be a once off purchase.

an instant crash and burn like a concord would have at least moved the conversation on to what is next for the studio or if it's gonna survive.
 
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Another by far all time low hit today.


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Easily below 4k by tomorrow morning, considering there's a steep decline on Monday usually.

Seeing reports of people attempting to matchmake for upwards of 10 minutes this morning.

Lower population and matchmaking issues will probably lead to more of the issues in Cryo I'd read about.

Something along the lines of multigrouping to achieve the goals rather than actually fighting each other, taking turns, etc. I don't recall exactly.

Hastens the demise, imo.
 
I was never really interested in extraction shooters but I always liked watching streamers play them. After watching Shroud play Marathon a few weeks ago it has to be the most unappealing, aesthetically unpleasing game I've seen from a AAA studio in awhile.
 
How much do we think the price they paid for Bungie is influencing / will influence Sony's decision-making here? Do they really see enough here to justify having 400 staff trying to pull it out of the fire, or is it more of a desperate attempt to save face?
 
How much do we think the price they paid for Bungie is influencing / will influence Sony's decision-making here? Do they really see enough here to justify having 400 staff trying to pull it out of the fire, or is it more of a desperate attempt to save face?
At this point they would have to completely butcher the game to make it something else and gain mass appeal , Bungie is probably not ok in doing this and even if they were it would take a long time to do it. And the game is tainted. Sony has two choices, keep it alive as a niche product (dont know how the would justify this) or simply sunset the game. At this point they give a vote of confidence in bungie and go for destiny 3 ? Or disband part of the studio keep some good apples and form another team ? ...

Dont know.. its certainly fascinating
 
It's becoming quite obvious that as a standalone game the extraction shooter is a very small market and will never be mainstream. Arc Raiders for instance was a huge success but continues to bleed players simply because the extraction shooter genre is mostly not fun. You either extract or you don't and you lose everything you acquired up to that point. If you are playing as only PvE then the game loses that core tension and without that it becomes boring.

As a mode within a game I feel it would work far better. Obviously Marathon has more problems than just that but speaking about Raiders I feel that could develop into a franchise if they expanded beyond the extraction shooter, but what do I know?
 
It's becoming quite obvious that as a standalone game the extraction shooter is a very small market and will never be mainstream. Arc Raiders for instance was a huge success but continues to bleed players simply because the extraction shooter genre is mostly not fun. You either extract or you don't and you lose everything you acquired up to that point. If you are playing as only PvE then the game loses that core tension and without that it becomes boring.

As a mode within a game I feel it would work far better. Obviously Marathon has more problems than just that but speaking about Raiders I feel that could develop into a franchise if they expanded beyond the extraction shooter, but what do I know?
careful now, those types of words will put you in danger on gaf by some...

but you are entirely correct.

I've been saying for a while now that the genre itself never evolves but they just slap a new skin on what Tarkov had been doing for many years already.

I think it could blow up, but it hasn't had it's fortnite moment, its more like when we had all those battle royale clones, Pubg style games that were just hot shit, like "the culling", anyone remember that wank. (fortnites big moment was when there was a big universal event with a constantly changing map and there was a countdown clock to an event, and i'd say that Thanos collab really kicked everything into full gear too).
 
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Attention! Marathoners across the world!

Marathon is in great danger, and it needs your help! To defeat the UESC and conquer the Marathon ship, runners will need your credit card, the three numbers on the back, and the expiration month and year. But you have to hurry, before they get caught and can't exfill from Cryo Archive with that precious red gear.
 
It's becoming quite obvious that as a standalone game the extraction shooter is a very small market and will never be mainstream. Arc Raiders for instance was a huge success but continues to bleed players simply because the extraction shooter genre is mostly not fun. You either extract or you don't and you lose everything you acquired up to that point. If you are playing as only PvE then the game loses that core tension and without that it becomes boring.

As a mode within a game I feel it would work far better. Obviously Marathon has more problems than just that but speaking about Raiders I feel that could develop into a franchise if they expanded beyond the extraction shooter, but what do I know?
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This game doesn't appear to have a floor of users. Probably hasn't been out long enough to play on the sunk cost fallacy. It could actually go to 0 if the numbers don't stablise soon.

It certainly doesn't seem to. The rate of decline has remained remarkably consistent, but even shows signs of increasing as frustrations mount with sweats, matchmaking times, multigrouping, etc.
 
Now I don't see season 2 breaking beyond 25k users. What they said is coming is anemic, and I doubt Bungie can make big changes in month even with most the studio on it.
 
Now I don't see season 2 breaking beyond 25k users. What they said is coming is anemic, and I doubt Bungie can make big changes in month even with most the studio on it.
Bungie has faced issues with content delivery since Destiny 1. I don't know if it is their engine or incompetence on their part (or a sum of both), but their output is horrendous. That's why they developed their drip feeding strategy in D2 while applying their seasonal model.
 
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It's becoming quite obvious that as a standalone game the extraction shooter is a very small market and will never be mainstream. Arc Raiders for instance was a huge success but continues to bleed players simply because the extraction shooter genre is mostly not fun. You either extract or you don't and you lose everything you acquired up to that point. If you are playing as only PvE then the game loses that core tension and without that it becomes boring.

As a mode within a game I feel it would work far better. Obviously Marathon has more problems than just that but speaking about Raiders I feel that could develop into a franchise if they expanded beyond the extraction shooter, but what do I know?
Correct. Marathon is so fricking niche I was able to figure it out from a few videos before it came out. How did nobody at Sony see it?

Marathon has a full Halo 3 type package with an extraction mode has far more potential. Or, and I've said this a million times, a package like Division with extraction zones but PVE everything else.

But these studios don't really think like this because they build their game around the business model, which is mostly getting people on the battle pass treadmill. Hence the focus on short, repetitive experiences over and over. But as you point out, extraction shooters with a 90% chance (or whatever it is) of losing all the shit you've spent time grinding for just doesn't translate to this. ARC Raiders see,s to have been successful because the players decided unilaterally to turn it into a quasi-PVE game, which of course undermines the core conceit of this genre, but it is more popular.
 
Fact is that games like these were made as bait for streamers but now streamers make content like ranting all day about extremist politics, shoplifting, and getting in car accidents. You can't target that with a big budget game.
 
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lol just look at this shit. You can tell this was some repulsive feminist taking revenge against men + conventional beauty standards

Hold on................did the Bungie dev legit work on Concord and then left to work for Bungie? Because if so and that's the transformation that this one character went through then...............what about all the other Concord characters? Because this change is INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Hold on................did the Bungie dev legit work on Concord and then left to work for Bungie? Because if so and that's the transformation that this one character went through then...............what about all the other Concord characters? Because this change is INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man I would love to see what some of the other character designs started out as.

It's really fascinating. How can you have a massive team of people who looked at this and agreed it was an improvement? These people must've been terrified to say what they really think.
 
Man I would love to see what some of the other character designs started out as.

It's really fascinating. How can you have a massive team of people who looked at this and agreed it was an improvement? These people must've been terrified to say what they really think.

I am interested in the response notes from the execs and creative leads for the original character designs.

Like how did they diplomatically tell the concept artists to make them all fat, gay, and/or ugly?

What was the professional, beating-around-the-bush wording they used?
 
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1) 650k in sales would be a failure for a game reported to cost north of 200-250 million from a studio Sony bought for 3.6 billion.

(650,000 x $40) x 0.8 = $20,800,000 revenue (The 0.8 assumes a 20% steam cut).

Not sure how you get "strong" from those numbers, this is not an indie game.

2) Again at a scale of 200-250 million dollars, 5-15k is a pathetic CCU base. If Bungie keeps 30 devs on for updates that'll cost minimum about ~4.5 million a year in labor. From what I've seen DAU counts seem like 6-7x the CCU peak and it's been reported steam is 70% of the player base.

150,000 average dev salary x 30 = 4.5 million dollars.
(15,000 steam CCU / 0.7) * 1 = ~21,428 CCU across all platforms.
21,428 * 7 = ~149,996 DAU estimated across all platforms.
4,500,000 / 150,000 = $30 per user annual revenue target to keep minimum development going ( $37.5 in revenue per user when factoring in 20% platform cut for steam, $42.85 for each user when factoring in a 30% platform cut for xbox. ).

So Bungie needs to sell every single user an average of about ~$40 of DLC annually to even come close to breaking even. Those 30 devs would need to both update the core game (Maps, weapons, etc) and make DLC (Skins, etc) to break even. This is napkin math that is highly favoured toward Bungie, the real cost is likely much higher to staff 30 devs with tools, workspace, equipment, servers, etc. Let's not forget the game isn't stable yet either, it's still bleeding about 15-20% of it's user pool weekly. A smaller studio might be able to swing this player pool, but for Bungie this is a nightmare, their burn rate is incredibly high.

3) Console sales were about 30% of total sales. This game flopped incredibly hard on consoles.

4) Marathon sold 1.2 million at launch. Total sales are probably around 2 million or so at this point. At $40 a pop that would be 80 million at best, but then counting the steam and xbox cuts you're looking at maybe ~66,400,000.

Steam (70% of players, 80% of revenue) - (80,000,000 x 0.7) x 0.8 = $44,800,000
PS5 (20% of players, 100% of revenue) - (80,000,000 x 0.2) = $16,000,000
Xbox (10% of players, 70% of revenue) - (80,000,000 x 0.1) x 0.7 = $5,600,000
Overall $66,400,000

That's against a $200-250 million investment up front... This game made maybe 25-33% of it's money back. Sony has to decide if there's a profitable future or decide if they should just cut their losses now. Destiny has also under performed massivlely and Bungie is an extremely expensive studio with no evidence of recent success.

5) User reviews are dropping as people walk away. It went from like 87% or so at launch to 80% recent now on steam. Also it's 2 months after launch, the game has a reputation now. Reviews don't matter that much at this point. If all those postive reviews mattered wouldn't the game have done better than this?

6) Time will tell but I disagree Marathon is like other games. It's self destructive like Trials was in Destiny. The top players eat the bottom players and the bottom players will walk away if they're cut out of reward structure. How are you supposed to engage with an extraction shooter and gear up if you're getting blown out nearly every game?

Source for 70% steam player base, 1.2 million launch sales, and 200-250 million dev cost: https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2026/04/09/checking-in-on-marathon-a-month-after-launch/


Very astute analysis. So even if this game generates $100 Million in Revenue in it's first full year, it'll mean they lost anyway between $100 - $150 Million in profit. It's beyond nuts, because it'll only get worse with every month from here. That's 3 or 4 AstroBot games worth of loses.

SMH......
 
Very astute analysis. So even if this game generates $100 Million in Revenue in it's first full year, it'll mean they lost anyway between $100 - $150 Million in profit. It's beyond nuts, because it'll only get worse with every month from here. That's 3 or 4 AstroBot games worth of loses.

SMH......
And the losses will definitely get worse. Seems like Sony is committing to putting lots of people to still work on the game despite negligible sales since the early batch of launch sales.

Right now it's already ranked #241 in top sellers list. And there's no way any game at that level is making tons of money. Im pretty sure Supermarket Simulator isnt raking in tons of revenue.

Have fun counting the nickels and dimes Marathon makes now on Steam. And then on consoles it'll be a fraction of that since most gamers are on PC.

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And the losses will definitely get worse. Seems like Sony is committing to putting lots of people to still work on the game despite negligible sales since the early batch of launch sales.

Right now it's already ranked #241 in top sellers list. And there's no way any game at that level is making tons of money. Im pretty sure Supermarket Simulator isnt raking in tons of revenue.

Have fun counting the nickels and dimes Marathon makes now on Steam. And then on consoles it'll be a fraction of that since most gamers are on PC.

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This will tell me who Nishino really is. If Marathon is still "A Thing" by the end of 2026, it'll tell me that he isn't willing to make the tough moves like he needs to. He needs to kill the Jim Ryan era. And one way to do that is to kill Marathon this year.

Well.............I'll say make it F2P first.
 
This will tell me who Nishino really is. If Marathon is still "A Thing" by the end of 2026, it'll tell me that he isn't willing to make the tough moves like he needs to. He needs to kill the Jim Ryan era. And one way to do that is to kill Marathon this year.

Well.............I'll say make it F2P first.
He also needs to kill Fairgame$ and Horizon Hunters before they get released and also flop

He has a lot of fat he needs to cut from his Western studios but his problem is that Sony gutted all their Japanese studios years ago so they'll have no studios period if they start chainsawing their Western studios. It still needs to be done though
 
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That sort of level is probably pretty good if you have nobody or next to nobody still working on the game. Not so good if you have a team of hundreds still working on the game
 
Correct. Marathon is so fricking niche I was able to figure it out from a few videos before it came out. How did nobody at Sony see it?

Marathon has a full Halo 3 type package with an extraction mode has far more potential. Or, and I've said this a million times, a package like Division with extraction zones but PVE everything else.

But these studios don't really think like this because they build their game around the business model, which is mostly getting people on the battle pass treadmill. Hence the focus on short, repetitive experiences over and over. But as you point out, extraction shooters with a 90% chance (or whatever it is) of losing all the shit you've spent time grinding for just doesn't translate to this. ARC Raiders see,s to have been successful because the players decided unilaterally to turn it into a quasi-PVE game, which of course undermines the core conceit of this genre, but it is more popular.
I'm fully convinced they are pushing extraction shooters specifically so they one day can sell gear insurance. There is no other explanation why they would keep pushing such a niche genre that only appeals to a very specific type of gamer. Business model before game is the mantra of AAA now.
 
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I'm fully convinced they are pushing extraction shooters specifically so they one day can sell gear insurance. There is no other explanation why they would keep pushing such a niche genre that only appeals to a very specific type of gamer. Business model before game is the mantra of AAA now.
lol, this seems crazy but very plausible.
 
Another Marathon vs Destiny 2 comparison for Sunday. I'm looking forward to next weekend's numbers based on the prior week drops for Marathon it could be below Destiny 2 in terms of player hours.

Code:
| Game      | Date UTC       | Coverage h | Avg CCU | Peak CCU | Player-hours | DAU range      | DAU midpoint |
| Marathon  | Sun 2026-05-03 | 24.0       | 11,832  | 16,441   | 283,969      | 94,656-227,175 | 141,985      |
| Destiny 2 | Sun 2026-05-03 | 24.0       | 10,217  | 13,314   | 245,197      | 81,732-196,158 | 122,599      |
 
He also needs to kill Fairgame$ and Horizon Hunters before they get released and also flop

He has a lot of fat he needs to cut from his Western studios but his problem is that Sony gutted all their Japanese studios years ago so they'll have no studios period if they start chainsawing their Western studios. It still needs to be done though

Facts! He won't cut Horizon Hunters though. Too big of a studio with the life blood of PS within it.
 
This will tell me who Nishino really is. If Marathon is still "A Thing" by the end of 2026, it'll tell me that he isn't willing to make the tough moves like he needs to. He needs to kill the Jim Ryan era. And one way to do that is to kill Marathon this year.

Well.............I'll say make it F2P first.
You're probably right in that will go f2p first, but I don't think it'll save it because I don't see the game generating enough revenue via mtx/dlc to justify the costs.
 
Bu Bu Bu I heard that the team are super happy. Sony keep adding more people to join the party there. It's like daily cake and eat it with party hats and music featuring steel drums.
That's exactly how I imagined Bungie around the time Sony acquired them. (And remember they supposedly set $1.2 billion aside for employee retention).

Then Destiny 2 shit the bed and Sony realized they had a turd on their hands.

From Wikipedia:
Bungie had 1,600 employees prior to the first round of layoffs in October 2023, according to former chief legal officer Don McGowan. This indicates that the company has lost over 750 employees in less than a year.
 
Just too boring to listen... too much beating around the bush and too much apologizing... grow some balls and just talk.
He got dragged on Twitter after his last video was viewed as negative to the project of selling Marathon to people, so it doesn't surprise me if he's being careful with his words this time, lol.

Apparently the Marathon crew has a twitter mob or something.
 
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