• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

March Gameinformer: The Last of Us

Status
Not open for further replies.

Amir0x

Banned
I've written at large about LAN, detailing all of its many flaws. My problem is that you gave that non-game a positive review yet you keep harping on about how Uncharted "plays itself". You're ridiculously harsh on one series but stupid lenient on a game that is clearly a POS to anyone with any semblance of objectivity.

Not exactly sure why I brought up your opinion on LAN, I guess it just annoys me that you're incapable of calling that game what it is. Garbage. I suppose when you hype up a game for months on and on it's hard to be objective.

I never called into question your perspective on L.A. Noire. Furthermore, criticizing an aspect of game design is not necessarily condemning it in its entirety. For example, I quite liked Uncharted 2. I had issues with it even then, specifically with the platforming and the bugginess I encountered (which seems to have been unique in my case, I'd readily admit, but I did take pictures to document my experience so that nobody thought I was making it up), but I felt the game was far more balanced with its gameplay vs. its cinematic guided ghost hand. And the shooting and combat scenarios in general were better too, even post patch U3 is not as good in that regard. And it was a longer game, so there was simply more there there. I gave it a 8 or so, and I like it more than L.A. Noire.

The issue I'm discussing with the Uncharted series though does not apply to L.A. Noire. If I have problems with Noire (and I do), it is for entirely different reasons. No matter what you say, L.A. Noire does not play itself or constantly have the ghostly hand of the cinematic director pushing you forward. L.A. Noire's problems are with application of intent, because there are a whole load of issues where you can see they had a good idea that simply was not applied well. Uncharted's case is different: this is clearly Naughty Dog's vision and they want the game to be this way, and I'm questioning whether this is a good game design philosophy at all.

It's fine for you to think L.A. Noire is garbage. It has problems, that's why I gave it a 7. But I also feel it has merits and would love another developer to co-opt its interrogation and investigation gameplay with more finesse. I don't think Uncharted is garbage, I think the further the series goes the more this cinematic gameplay specter haunts the proceedings and continues to plague the series with less and less moments where we're actually in control and where the gameplay itself is good rather than just you pressing an analog stick while amazing stuff just coincidentally happens on the screen behind you.

Guiding this back on topic, that's why I always express some concern about Last Of Us. I think Naughty Dog is very talented. I like the Crash games and Jak games, and they definitely play to the graphics whore inside me. But I feel that with their shift during the PS3 generation, it is an honest question to wonder aloud what direction this will take and how many lessons they "learned" from Uncharted they will feel the need to apply here.
 
I've written at large about LAN, detailing all of its many flaws. My problem is that you gave that non-game a positive review yet you keep harping on about how Uncharted "plays itself". You're ridiculously harsh on one series but stupid lenient on a game that is clearly a POS to anyone with any semblance of objectivity.

Not exactly sure why I brought up your opinion on LAN, I guess it just annoys me that you're incapable of calling that game what it is. Garbage. I suppose when you hype up a game for months on and on it's hard to be objective.

LA Noire has many problems but it certainly is not garbage, I really enjoyed it.
 

squidyj

Member
I've written at large about LAN, detailing all of its many flaws. My problem is that you gave that non-game a positive review yet you keep harping on about how Uncharted "plays itself". You're ridiculously harsh on one series but stupid lenient on a game that is clearly a POS to anyone with any semblance of objectivity.

Not exactly sure why I brought up your opinion on LAN, I guess it just annoys me that you're incapable of calling that game what it is. Garbage. I suppose when you hype up a game for months on and on it's hard to be objective.

Calm your tits your opinions aren't facts. LA Noire was pretty cool and you're just going to have to live with that, sorry.
 

jett

D-Member
I never called into question your perspective on L.A. Noire. Furthermore, criticizing an aspect of game design is not necessarily condemning it in its entirety. For example, I quite liked Uncharted 2. I had issues with it even then, specifically with the platforming and the bugginess I encountered (which seems to have been unique in my case, I'd readily admit, but I did take pictures to document my experience so that nobody thought I was making it up), but I felt the game was far more balanced with its gameplay vs. its cinematic guided ghost hand. And the shooting and combat scenarios in general were better too, even post patch U3 is not as good in that regard. And it was a longer game, so there was simply more there there. I gave it a 8 or so, and I like it more than L.A. Noire.

The issue I'm discussing with the Uncharted series though does not apply to L.A. Noire. If I have problems with Noire (and I do), it is for entirely different reasons. No matter what you say, L.A. Noire does not play itself or constantly have the ghostly hand of the cinematic director pushing you forward. L.A. Noire's problems are with application of intent, because there are a whole load of issues where you can see they had a good idea that simply was not applied well. Uncharted's case is different: this is clearly Naughty Dog's vision and they want the game to be this way, and I'm questioning whether this is a good game design philosophy at all.

It's fine for you to think L.A. Noire is garbage. It has problems, that's why I gave it a 7. But I also feel it has merits and would love another developer to co-opt its interrogation and investigation gameplay with more finesse. I don't think Uncharted is garbage, I think the further the series goes the more this cinematic gameplay specter haunts the proceedings and continues to plague the series with less and less moments where we're actually in control and where the gameplay itself is good rather than just you pressing an analog stick while amazing stuff just coincidentally happens on the screen behind you.

Guiding this back on topic, that's why I always express some concern about Last Of Us. I think Naughty Dog is very talented. I like the Crash games and Jak games, and they definitely play to the graphics whore inside me. But I feel that with their shift during the PS3 generation, it is an honest question to wonder aloud what direction this will take and how many lessons they "learned" from Uncharted they will feel the need to apply here.

Fair enough, but LAN does "play itself" as far as I'm concerned. In interrogations and in the car/on-foot chases it doesn't matter what you do, at all, the outcome is always the same. You're just going through the motions to see the next cut-scene. You cannot fail anything(except the tutorial, which is kinda funny). The chases in particular aren't all that different in design to those in Uncharted 3, except lamer in presentation and choreography. And in LAN's shooting sequences there's such a ludicrous amount of auto-aim the game is pretty much doing it for you. Personally I don't think there's anything salvageable about the game beyond the motionscan tech used for the actors, least of all the way it does interrogation and investigation.

I actually agree with you somewhat on Uncharted 3, ND took the cinematic crap too far, there's too many moments where you're moving through an interactive cut-scene that doesn't have any proper gameplay designed into it. Thankfully the people in charge of the game aren't working on this one. I have a feeling TLOU is going to be more subdued when it comes to that kind of thing
 

Amir0x

Banned
well the scans aren't allowed here so the only thing to discuss is that these screens are nice, except the third one which is awful.

with so little information on what this game is going to be like, it's difficult to completely detach what they're doing here with the expectations we bring from our experiences with their last product forever. Trying to plug your ears and get people to stop mentioning their last work in context to Last Of Us is only going to stifle honest discussion.

jett said:
Fair enough, but LAN does "play itself" as far as I'm concerned. In interrogations and in the car/on-foot chases it doesn't matter what you do, at all, the outcome is always the same. You're just going through the motions to see the next cut-scene. You cannot fail anything(except the tutorial, which is kinda funny). The chases in particular aren't all that different in design to those in Uncharted 3, except lamer in presentation and choreography. And in LAN's shooting sequences there's such a ludicrous amount of auto-aim the game is pretty much doing it for you. Personally I don't think there's anything salvageable about the game beyond the motionscan tech used for the actors, least of all the way it does interrogation and investigation.

I actually agree with you somewhat on Uncharted 3, ND took the cinematic crap too far, there's too many moments where you're moving through an interactive cut-scene that doesn't have any proper gameplay designed into it. Thankfully the people in charge of the game aren't working on this one. I have a feeling TLOU is going to be more subdued when it comes to that kind of thing

Re: LAN, I can see your point. For me, though, the fun came in how much percentage of the case you figured out. Yes, the case result would be the same technically, but depending on how accurate you were with your answers and interrogation and clue findings, the success and score of your case was better or worse. It's like a shallower scoring game or something in that regard. So this is why I feel slightly different about the approach than you do.

I agree I feel this game is less likely to be cinematic nonsense. My main concern is really with the difficulty level. Since this is a game about survival, they can't hold hands. They need to allow you to die and die often. Arne said of Uncharted series that they did it this way because 'dying sucks' (which is wrong), but to do that in a game about survival would be suicide.

That's my primary concern.
 

StuBurns

Banned
I had more fun with LAN than UC3, regardless of their 'objective' quality.

I haven't seen the new scans, I'm sure they're wonderful however.
 

Amir0x

Banned
I had more fun with LAN than UC3, regardless of their 'objective' quality.

I haven't seen the new scans, I'm sure they're wonderful however.

the scans do seem to have good facial expressions in them. It's hard to tell though, the quality isn't outstanding
 

Pranay

Member
well the scans aren't allowed here so the only thing to discuss is that these screens are nice, except the third one which is awful.

with so little information on what this game is going to be like, it's difficult to completely detach what they're doing here with the expectations we bring from our experiences with their last product forever. Trying to plug your ears and get people to stop mentioning their last work in context to Last Of Us is only going to stifle honest discussion.

The Argument has been going on for quite a while where i feel we should give it a rest for now.

Though I agree somewhat with you that on uncharted 3.

None the less I expect TLOU to be different and considering ND taking their time and also UC2 director to be working on it , i expect the game to be better and hopefully have a game which meets our expectations.
 
I don't see how you can say Uncharted 3 'plays itself'. There's aspects to the game that aren't challenging and are automated a bit (like platforming), but the core of the game - shooting, has always been challenging and dynamic.

There's improvements to be made in the Uncharted formula, I do think platforming could be less automated and improved to add difficulty, along with aspects of the game that are less linear -- the story progression would still be more linear, but there would be sections of the game that offer more exploration in an open environment -- linear strings of open world scenarios, if you will.

I'm hoping that The Last of Us explores these aspects a bit, and this improvement is carried over to the inevitable Uncharted 4.
 

Amir0x

Banned
The Argument has been going on for quite a while where i feel we should give it a rest for now.

Though I agree somewhat with you that on uncharted 3.

Well, I don't understand why we need to arbitrarily set limits on the discussion. The topic isn't somehow muted, you can simultaneously have any other type of discussion you like. I never got why people didn't just do that instead of listening to specific conversations within topics that they were bored of :p

None the less I expect TLOU to be different and considering ND taking their time and also UC2 director to be working on it , i expect the game to be better and hopefully have a game which meets our expectations.

I hope so. like I said, my main concern is I need to feel tense...I need to feel like I'm surviving. So, death is a necessary component. If I don't feel a penalty for fucking up, and often, then it's not going to be a worthy excursion for me. You can get away with it in the pulpy Uncharted, but that won't fly here.
 
One thing in favor of the game's development is the dedicated resources to single player, and a longer development time.

Uncharted 3, imho, was a great game, but none of it was really a step up from the previous title...and I think this is mostly due to an aggressive schedule and increasing devotion of resources to multiplayer.
 
What I'm wondering is how they will apply the "survival" component. In the trailer, Joel seemed to experience quite a deal of difficulty just taking on one foe, and from the cover of the magazine, and the screens we got, it seems like multiple enemy encounters may be a common occurrence. So... How does Ellie play into it? Given her stature, she probably doesn't have a lot of power, so does she hide during these sequences? Will she get snatched away like Ashley in RE4 and you have to rescue her? Cause that shit was annoying. Will Joel really have trouble dispatching multiple foes? Will it be a feral encounter where one barely survives by the skin of his teeth, or will you be hiding and utilizing guerilla tactics? Will it utilize something similar to UC3's woefully implemented counter system? Is ammunition truly scarce like the trailer suggests? Is your aiming of a gun going to be pinpoint perfect or more shakey like Silent Hill?

Soooooo many questions...
 
The GI preview should ease a lot of fears that people have about this gem. It doesn't sound like Uncharted in any way. No regenerating health, low ammo, emphasis on the lethality of bullets, and the platforming is handled in a very different way. It leans heavily toward realism, so the over the top nature of Uncharted is out the door.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Seems from the trailer she had no problem holding her own (i.e. killing f00s), and they keep emphasizing how much work they did on the A.I. because they "hate babysitting NPCs." So I doubt you have to worry about her getting killed too much. Still, hope they put her in danger sometimes so that it at least feels like she can die in this post apocalyptic world and not just her being immortal.

But mostly, they just have to make it so that you're constantly on the edge looking for that one extra bullet, and where death is always right around the corner. Not the illusion of death - not press analog stick to run away from pack of shroom zombies but really if you do nothing you'll win anyway. Real death around ever corner
 

Loudninja

Member
The GI preview should ease a lot of fears that people have about this gem. It doesn't sound like Uncharted in any way. No regenerating health, low ammo, emphasis on the lethality of bullets, and the platforming is handled in a very different way. It leans heavily toward realism, so the over the top nature of Uncharted is out the door.
Online is confirmed as well.

They said they are working on a bunch of ideas.

Edit:They also said they dont want to shy away from gore, nor exploit it.
 

KingK

Member
scans look alright. When they mentioned that they thought about going back to the jak series but decided not to, i wept.

:'(
I really wish they revisit that series sometime. But at the same time, I'm really glad that they're willing to make new games as well.

Online is confirmed as well.

They said they are working on a bunch of ideas.

Online? Really? I wonder how that would work for this kind of game. I hope it's not tacked on.
 
:'(
I really wish they revisit that series sometime. But at the same time, I'm really glad that they're willing to make new games as well.

Evan said that they couldn't come up with an idea that would make fans and the team happy. The Uncharted team might end up looking into it, but he feels that they may run into the same issue.
 
What I'm wondering is how they will apply the "survival" component. In the trailer, Joel seemed to experience quite a deal of difficulty just taking on one foe, and from the cover of the magazine, and the screens we got, it seems like multiple enemy encounters may be a common occurrence. So... How does Ellie play into it? Given her stature, she probably doesn't have a lot of power, so does she hide during these sequences? Will she get snatched away like Ashley in RE4 and you have to rescue her? Cause that shit was annoying. Will Joel really have trouble dispatching multiple foes? Will it be a feral encounter where one barely survives by the skin of his teeth, or will you be hiding and utilizing guerilla tactics? Will it utilize something similar to UC3's woefully implemented counter system? Is ammunition truly scarce like the trailer suggests? Is your aiming of a gun going to be pinpoint perfect or more shakey like Silent Hill?

Soooooo many questions...

Ellie will hide herself during firefights while giving warning to Joel time to time, unless you purposefully lead the enemy to her hiding place, you shouldn't need to babysit her too much although there will be time when you do have to go help her. Ellie capabilities in combat changed as the game progress

Joel is a tough and experienced guy, he used to run drugs and weapon smuggling through unquarantined areas before he met Ellie, I think he's tougher than your average thugs and can probably take on a couple guys at the same time.

A couple thing I really like when I read the article, no health regen, you need medkit AND time to apply it, so no pausing the game mid action and apply health kit in the middle of fight.
 

Loudninja

Member
Gameinformer info
The game is set in a post-apocalyptic world inspired by “ruin porn,” (their words, not mine) where nature has overtaken cities and a Cordyceps fungus virus has infected society.

“It’s been done before. We’ve seen the typical zombie shooter, the typical desaturated gray worlds,” The Last of Us game director Bruce Straley told Game Informer. “That’s not Naughty Dog. That’s not our style. It has to be beautiful. It has to give you that sense of mystery and entice you to want to see more.”

The story kicks off in a quarantine zone in Boston – 20 years after the fungal outbreak – where Ellie, a 14 year-old girl, has lived since birth. She’s interested in cultural relics from our world, such as music and books. Joel, a man in his late 40s, runs drugs and weapons through the zone’s black market. He is an former hunter, and is hinted to have killed many innocent people in his past. He is recruited by a dying friend to sneak Ellie out of the quarantine zone for unknown reasons. But things go wrong, the military gets involved, and Joel, remembering his promise to keep her safe, sets out to take Ellie west.

Development on The Last of Us began after Naughty Dog assembled a second team, created due to developer inquiries about licensing the Naughty Dog engine. But the engine couldn’t work outside their Santa Monica studio, so they set up a second team to work with it, instead. When the team was formed, the question arose: ‘What game will we make?’ The idea of a new Jak and Daxter surfaced. Unfortunately for fans, the idea never came to fruition. It was dropped because it drifted too far away from what made Jak and Daxter what it is. They didn’t want to create a game that didn’t stay true to the franchise, nor one that the fans wouldn’t enjoy.

You’ll face against various factions, including hunters. Confrontation is best avoided, as resources are limited and health regeneration isn’t automated (you’ll have health packs). That said, don’t expect to be running around, firing off 300 rounds in a machine gun. Realism is very present in The Last of Us, and a single bullet can kill. Lethality affects enemy decisions. If Joel kills an enemy, the others will hide or attempt flanking him. If Joel is armed with only a melee weapon, they’ll attack him head-on. Naughty Dog calls it the “Balance of Power” system.
http://gematsu.com/2012/02/the-last-of-us-detailed-in-game-informer
More info in the link
 
Ellie will hide herself during firefights while giving warning to Joel time to time, unless you purposefully lead the enemy to her hiding place, you shouldn't need to babysit her too much although there will be time when you do have to go help her. Ellie capabilities in combat changed as the game progress

Joel is a tough and experienced guy, he used to run drugs and weapon smuggling through unquarantined areas before he met Ellie, I think he's tougher than your average thugs and can probably take on a couple guys at the same time.

A couple thing I really like when I read the article, no health regen, you need medkit AND time to apply it, so no pausing the game mid action and apply health kit in the middle of fight.
This is sounding great.
 

The_Monk

Member
Can't wait.

I'm looking for a good surviving atmosphere, like more focus in avoiding the enemy, saving ammunition, conserve items, health packs, possibility to create weapons, etc.

The thing about health regen seems awesome, just my kind of thing.

Also curious for release date and if a Collector's Edition will be a possibility (info which we won't get this soon).
 

jett

D-Member
The GI article makes the game sound pretty awesome and completely different from Uncharted. Some gameplay-angle shots in there, or what seems like it.
 

KingK

Member
I'm loving that info from the GI article. Sounds really awesome. I think I'm going to try to go on a media blackout for this game after E3.
 
I'm wondering if there will be any way to change up how and in what pattern Ellie learns her "skills"—would this progression be based on choosing different routes through an area? differing frequencies of battle encounters? how often she gets thrown into a desperate situation? Curious things that'll be answered eventually, but this sounds very different from the average ND game—there's a lot of uncertainty to go around with right now.
 
Game looks great. Only minor gripe is breakable weapons. Yeah, yeah, I know, it fits the setting and survival genre well, but I've never actually enjoyed the degradable/breakable weapon mechanic in any game I've ever played. I trust Naughty Dog to do it well, hopefully. I mean it's certainly more realistic I guess, but I don't play games for realism. At least it looks like they are making a true survival-horror style game I guess.
 
The new batch of info certainly sounds promising, and seems to indicate that ND is taking its gameplay in a very different direction. I obviously won't draw any conclusions before I play it, because I may very well find it ho-hum or polarizing, but it sounds good on paper. About the breakable weapons thing, I don't think any game I've ever played has implemented them in an enjoyable nor realistic fashion. I don't know about you guys, but steel pipes, wrenches and crowbars are not likely to fall apart on you in real life after bashing in a dozen plus or so skulls. I understand that they are there to facilitate a sense of tension and risk, but I'm skeptical of their execution. Ditto on the AI, as ND would have to bring about what feels like a paradigm shift in AI programming to pull off this Ellie character. I can't think of a single game I've played that features an AI companion who feels even remotely real.
 

Raoh

Member
Gameinformer info

The game is set in a post-apocalyptic world inspired by “ruin porn,” (their words, not mine) where nature has overtaken cities and a Cordyceps fungus virus has infected society.

http://gematsu.com/2012/02/the-last-of-us-detailed-in-game-informer
More info in the link



Ruin Porn

largest.jpg


abandonedamerica.us%20screen%20capture%202012-1-5-17-58-36.png.jpg


It's the sort of image, imbued with loss and layers, that architecture buffs drool over. A wheelchair sits center stage, its orange vinyl back echoed by a round tabletop that leans against a wall, painted in a familiar shade of institutional green. A mattress, flattened and grimy, lies tossed onto a floor that's littered with fallen plaster. In the foreground, an overturned metal trashcan speaks volumes. A mirror reflects the whole sad scene.

It's romantic, it's nostalgic, it's wistful, it's provocative. It's about time, nature, mortality, disinvestment.

photo3_.jpg



http://www.theatlanticcities.com/design/2012/01/psychology-ruin-porn/886/
 
Game looks great. Only minor gripe is breakable weapons. Yeah, yeah, I know, it fits the setting and survival genre well, but I've never actually enjoyed the degradable/breakable weapon mechanic in any game I've ever played. I trust Naughty Dog to do it well, hopefully. I mean it's certainly more realistic I guess, but I don't play games for realism. At least it looks like they are making a true survival-horror style game I guess.

I dunno, I haven't read the article yet (waiting for physical copy). But if the combat isn't a main focus and you aren't mowing down guy after guy with your trusty pipe, then I don't see breakable weapons that big of a deal. I'm guessing its like this; you see some guys coming and you run over grab a board or pipe, whack em a few times and it breaks, maybe you got one out and then bolt while they are stunned. More of an extra option, less of a requirement.
 
Fights and battles influenced by No Country for Old Men (scenes between Chigur and the other dude who stole the money). They want to try and recreate that same intense feeling with minimal music.
 
Now see... If the game were to resemble the shots of that "ruin porn" this could be the Silent Hill game we've all been waiting for

constant companion of Ellie probably isn't going to convey that Silent Hill feel you're looking for. the game seems to going after something different than Silent Hill atmosphere.
 

squidyj

Member
This doesn't really have much to do with the GI info but I'd really like to see TLoU have a better UI element for brightness control than the Uncharted games, or most games really. There's no indicator and for other games when I set it to barely visible in other games it's pretty clear that I'm crushing detail out of the scene. This is my minor pet peeve.


constant companion of Ellie probably isn't going to convey that Silent Hill feel you're looking for. the game seems to going after something different than Silent Hill atmosphere.

I can actually see elements of Children of Men in it to be honest.
 
This doesn't really have much to do with the GI info but I'd really like to see TLoU have a better UI element for brightness control than the Uncharted games, or most games really. There's no indicator and for other games when I set it to barely visible in other games it's pretty clear that I'm crushing detail out of the scene. This is my minor pet peeve.




I can actually see elements of Children of Men in it to be honest.

yeah, I can definitely see some of that here. awesome movie, and a nice reference to draw inspiration from.
 

KingK

Member
constant companion of Ellie probably isn't going to convey that Silent Hill feel you're looking for. the game seems to going after something different than Silent Hill atmosphere.

I think they're focusing more on the survival part of "survival-horror" than the horror.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom